Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic 288 - Rastakhan is Rumbling

(+) Yeah! (+)

It doesn't matter that kingsbane is being turned into aggro. People have been trying to do that for a long time now because the deck has slowly been getting tools to make it work but raiding party has put it over the top. The deck now has 4 tutors and even when I heavily tech against it I feel unfavored because they can draw their kingsbane whenever they want and i can't draw what i want to whenever i want.
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Speaking of Kingsbane, I just beat one playing a deck consisting of nothing but even cost Warrior cards. Note that I wasn't playing Even Warrior, this was the generic hero power, the deck was just built to finish X Warrior cards and X Even cards quests at once. The strategy? Play shit, and the opponent toys with you and spends most of the game killing worthless minions because you're clearly no threat. And you're not. Then you play three copies of Emeriss you got from Dragon Roars during the game, and by the time they realize you might not be completely dead in the water and they start actually swinging at your face, you kill them with a 32 attack Grom.

Dragon Roar loves to give me duplicate dragons. I've played it four times so far and I've got Deathwing x2, Emeriss x2, Emeriss x2 and Temporus x2.
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I too have a thought about Kingsbane:

Fuck it.
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Watched CMC in the collegate champs with a unique hunter deck.

Basically a pile of tech cards (Black Knight, Mojomaster Zihi, Mossy horror) along with Stitched Tracker to find them.

Watched as they beat a taunt druid by playing two Mojomaster Zihis and never letting the Druid play Hadronox.
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Wow, someone took discard warlock to the gollegate champs.

And it went 0-3, even losing a game where they got nether portal on 5 and two Bloodreaver Guldans. I am...not impressed.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

It doesn't matter that kingsbane is being turned into aggro. People have been trying to do that for a long time now because the deck has slowly been getting tools to make it work but raiding party has put it over the top. The deck now has 4 tutors and even when I heavily tech against it I feel unfavored because they can draw their kingsbane whenever they want and i can't draw what i want to whenever i want.

This is pretty much my complaint. Too many bane tutors now along with pirates that help their plan. Kingsbane is basically the new jade except you cant tech against it effectively and unless you aggro it down you cant win with value.

I can't wait until the meta stabilizes and the Kingsbane and Shudderwock decks go down in numbers.

Fuck Shudderwock.
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davidponte posted...

I can't wait until the meta stabilizes and the Kingsbane and Shudderwock decks go down in numbers.

Fuck Shudderwock.

But... fuck kingsbane
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I decided to switch it up for tonight.
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Had a game against a taunt druid where my hand was amazingly bad and my opponent had 2 3/6 taunt things and a lich king. To give you an idea how bad it was I had to use a faceless on his lich king and just leave it up. But despite this my opponent's play was to use a doom pact he got from lich king to destroy everything and just mill like Oondasta and some other important cards. It's like, every other play he had was 100% better. I don't understand.
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ColZach posted...

davidponte posted...

davidponte posted...

Fuck Kingsbane.

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So...I've been playing a bunch of whizbang. The deck I've had the most success with is the Surrender to Madness deck, which is baffling to me. I assume I've just been queueing against people who were also messing around, cause that list can't actually be good, can it?
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Fuck kingsbane

like even when I win against it the game is awful. Like I'm playing cubelock and my opponent is kingsbane. My deck is essentially teched to win the matchup. So like at around turn 7 or something i get the weapon out and it summons voidlords and for the next like several turns its just him hitting something for a lot of damage and healing and me making sure if he vanishes i still have a taunt up.

After a while I calculate that even if he hits me in the face he can't actually kill me since he used all of his weapon buffs and i just start to play a card a turn because my hand was full and like attack and pass. That's like the entire game.

Finally he gets down to like no cards and i just like defile to kill my minions, ooze to gain a ton of armor, gnome x 2. And like that's the entire game.
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I beat a kingsbane rogue today.

There I was, roping on every turn to protest the kingsbane and hopefully spare somebody else the woes of having to deal with the guy, and then he does prep-sprint-raiding party...and overdraws the kingsbane.
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i mean i just logged onto asia because i have whizbang on there. I got Shudderwock shaman, Big Spell Mage, Surrender to Madness Priest, Zoolock, and Token druid.

Keep in mind my rank is like 25 because i havn't logged onto asia in forever so my opponents decks are not that good.

In any case i went 3-2 here's how it went

1. Shudderwock vs Combo Priest (loss)
-Okay so, the priest was a pretty good player with a not awful deck. I just drew pretty poorly and I don't actually know what cards are in the whizbang version of the deck, which was 100% a problem for me.

2. Big Spell Mage vs Rogue (win)
-BSM is a deck I'm very familiar with and what is more useful for me is that I ran a list very similar to the whizbang one to high legend when BSM was a okay deck. I mean I could have beat my opponent with like anything but still

3. Zoolock vs better zoolock. (loss)
-The whizbang zoolock uses the spirit and buff cards to handbuff minions. To give you an idea how bad it is it uses the 5 mana 3/4 handbuff card. I want to say I got out a 8/9 chain gang and still lost (granted my opponent did also keleseth on 2 and if he didn't do that I win). But the fact that the whizbang list does not run keleseth and instead has demonfire and stuff just makes it an inferior deck. Oh I drew the bat card, but after like i went all in on buffing the chaingang to an obscene level.

4. Surrender to Madness Priest vs Mage (win)
-So I won, but that doesn't say much because my opponent was running a really bad deck probably just with cards he had lying around. I mean it's rank 25. I actually went second but decided to not coin out surrender because it looked at first like he was just all out aggro and i had some taunts I could layout before i used it.

5. Token druid vs Face Warrior (win)
-The whizbang token druid runs like treant synergy and such. Like mulchmuncher. The warrior actually almost won because the whizbang deck doesn't run the oakens/violet teacher package... and might not run branching paths (although it has to right?) in any case i didn't draw those, or any armor cards or taunts... except that i discovered a tirion off of a random 2 drop the deck has which discovers a minion that has 5 or more attack (or was it costs 5 or more... i don't actually remember).
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I haven't even looked at the deck lists, overall is Whizbang better or worse than before?
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Camden posted...

I haven't even looked at the deck lists, overall is Whizbang better or worse than before?

I mean, I think the decks are slightly stronger, but that's also to be expected with a larger card pool.

The one thing I really like actually is that decks sometimes have 1x tech cards, which is something the old whizbang decks really lacked. Like...1x Acidic Swamp Ooze, something I'd really like to have after a legendary weapon gets played; basically none of the old decklists had those cards. So someone would play like Skull of the Manari, and you'd just be thinking "there is no card in this entire deck that can save me".

KokoroAkechi posted...

1. Shudderwock vs Combo Priest (loss)
-Okay so, the priest was a pretty good player with a not awful deck. I just drew pretty poorly and I don't actually know what cards are in the whizbang version of the deck, which was 100% a problem for me.

I've had this problem too. OK let's see...

Whizbang version of Shudder in terms of battlecries:

Does NOT have:
* Grumble
* Life Drinker
* Or any form of healing battlecry other than Omega Mind (which you could use to heal literally 1 with earth shock, oh boy)
* Electra Stormsurge
* Any form of freeze

Does have:
* Weapon removal (1x Acidic Swamp Ooze)
* 1x Mind Control Tech
* Zola The Gorgon
* 2x Saronite Chain Gang
* Hagatha the Witch
* A bunch of card generation/draw (2x Menacing Nimbus, 1x Storm Chaser which can get Volcano/Rain of Toads, and Elise the Trailblazer)

So...Shudderwock in the Whizbang deck makes a big board state, doesn't do anything for healing you or killing the opponent other than putting some 6/6s onto the board that can attack if the opponent doesn't kill them. You can sometimes replay it if Zola triggers in the right order, but that particular gravy train will have a decent chance of failure, so you'll get to play it maybe 3 times on average in an average game (if you wait for both chain gangs and Zola).

Seems like in the Whizbang deck Shudderwock is just meant to be a big tempo play (which is fine, pretty much what I'd expect from a Whizbang deck with Wock in it). I wouldn't hold onto it for maximum battlecries, shudderwock with all battlecries in the pool isn't really that strong in this deck, so it's not worth stalling for 8 more turns to get a slightly stronger shudderwock, although I would wait for a chain gang (or two) or Hagatha since those are the only real high impact battlecries in the pool.
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Wait it doesnt have grumble? Does it have that minion that bounces and makes it bigger at least?
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Wait it doesnt have grumble? Does it have that minion that bounces and makes it bigger at least?

Bog slosher? No, it only has Zola. (I can support a no-bounce shudderwock, though; sometimes just summoning 18/18 worth of stats is enough of a tempo play, and any bouncing in the deck actually counteracts how much tempo you get on the initial play).

But yeah, I do think the whizbang deck could have reasonably justified Bog Sloshers.

I also would much rather they have Fungal Enchanter (the 3/3 AoE heal that zoo uses) rather than Omega Mind. Fungal Enchanter does a lot more before turn 10, gets copied with Shudderwock, and heals off Hagatha's aoe damage so that you don't get stuck with 6/3s Shudderwocks. (Alternatively, instead of Fungal Enchanter or Omega Mind you could use Lifedrinkers, but I'm pretty sure they on-purpose did not include Lifedrinkers).

Buuuut yeah, honestly, looking at HSReplay, it's not really a Shudderwock focused deck. It's like...there's maybe four important cards (Elise the Trailblazer, Hagatha the Witch, Lich King, Shudderwock) and none of them are clearly the finisher in the deck. Hagatha looks like the one that increases the winrate most when drawn. Elise seems to be the best one to have in your opening mulligan. So...I guess it mostly wins off of generating a lot of cards (and Shudderwock will also generate a bunch of cards).
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(And since it was mentioned a bunch, the crash bug with Jan'alai and Brann has been fixed.)
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So...I made a mediocre reddit shitpost, which apparently inspired Kripp to make a video and respond to me:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/a53g7s/how_to_gain_more_armour_than_armourwock/ebjzzw7/
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"Metroid compose-it"
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metroid composite posted...

So...I made a mediocre reddit shitpost, which apparently inspired Kripp to make a video and respond to me:

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/a53g7s/how_to_gain_more_armour_than_armourwock/ebjzzw7/

just saw the video, recognized your name. came here to see if people had posted about it already. very cool!
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So...Kripp has now followed me on twitter. I'm not sure how to feel about this, given that I don't generally watch him (not that into Arena), don't follow him on twitter (I follow Hafu instead for my Arena streamer of choice), and am not particularly a fan of salty streamer personas (Reynad/Kripp etc).

But hey, I guess we bonded over Linecracker. New friends!

UltimaterializerX posted...

Oh and Cube has now been 5 mana for a full year with no nerfs.

Cube is currently being played in like...5% of decks. (Mostly Hadronox Druid, and not even the flavour of the month Hadronox Druid either, which runs Da Undatakah instead).
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I actually agree that cube is too good and should haev been nerfed somehow. It's just like a card that makes other things so incredibly strong. I've been calling for it to be hit when the raza nerfs hit. I think it's even worse now.

Also, I put in a demonic project into my cubelock and took the new list to legend(took out the gnomes since rogues have vanished from ladder). Added in a doomsayer too like more aggressive decks I see sometimes, like I don't think there's really a much better tech option in that slot besides demonic project right now. Maybe a silence.

Like the card is so good right now. Hit like 3 malygos druids with it, a paladin DK minion, and also a shudderwock. Admittedly I was lucky to hit the shudderwock (although the play he made kind of showed he had it in hand and he already played like 3 chaingangs, grumble, zola, 2 ice guys, etc).
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azuarc posted...

"Metroid compose-it"

oh i heard this too and was like "welp"
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The only people dumber than Blizzard are the people defending them.

You obviously haven't been following the clusterfuck that is Fallout 76.
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azuarc posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

The only people dumber than Blizzard are the people defending them.

You obviously haven't been following the clusterfuck that is Fallout 76.

Idk man, I feel like people who shit talk Blizz and STILL play their skilless game are the dumbest people around.

Don't rile him up please.
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Fallout 76 is a pretty massive cf. between the bag thing, the personal info thing, and the game itself, I hope this actually makes Bethesda get their shit together because on a technical level theyre just getting further and further behind everyone else.

So what decks have people been having fun playing so far? Ive been looking for something that clicks for me ever since Mana Wyrm was nerfed and Aluneth Mage more or less bit the dust, and I havent really found it yet. So far this set Ive tried Odd mage, dragon priest, big spell mage and some midrange rogue decks, but Ive been avoiding Hunter.

My first two games in the new tavern brawl, my opponents had the exact same opening.

Turn 1: Pass
Turn 2: Keleseth
Turn 3: Surrender To Madness

Both games I'm playing Dragon Warrior, so here I am with all of these big ass dragons that aren't helping me at all early on and all of a sudden my opponents entire deck is +3/+3. The only reason I even won the second game was because they decided to drop two 4/6 Acolytes late and I had Warpath in my hand.
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Exodia Paladin rolled 3 different horsemen in a row

Word, fuck Kingsbane.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Magic is trash, but at least it gets damage right. Hearthstone cant even get basic things like DAMAGE correct.

If a lord is out, all minions take 1, and the lord dies, the minions all die in Magic because of having 1 damage on them. In hearthstone the game treats it as if every minion still alive gets 1 health, which is so hilariously stupid that ONLY Blizzard would ever have such an oversight.

Honestly, that's pretty unintuitive in both games.

It's very unintuitive in Magic, I have to stop and explain the rule to people when they're like "but my guy survived the damage", "Yeah, but after that the lord died and then your guy is now smaller and thus dead". "But it was alive, you didn't even interact with it, you just killed my other creature".

But like, in Hearthstone it feels like it should be the other way; since damage does not disappear at end of turn, you get scenarios where your minions are damaged, you play stormwind champion, and it literally heals your minions. That also feels weird. (It probably wouldn't feel weird in magic, though, where creatures heal after every turn anyway)

So yeah, I dunno, I don't necessarily think there's a right way of designing health buffs, since they both feel kinda weird to me.

I will give the hearthstone devs some creddit for basically recognizing that this mechanic was confusing and just stop printing it. (Nerfed Murloc Warleader to get rid of the health buff. All buffs they've printed recently have been permanent buffs or only attack buffs).
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Smash Bros Ultimate fixed a major glitch within one week of the games release.

I mean, so did Hearthstone within one week of the release of Rakhastan (Janalai no longer crashes the game with Bran).
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Nintendo is also a company that didn't let people stream their games etc. Probably among the worst offenders in that area.
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Playing my first rumble run right now, and it's not looking so good. Took Shaman with spells cost 2 less and have literally been offered one good spell through my first four picks. I have more copies of Cairne in this deck than good spells.

That said, none of the first four bosses has had anything threatening so it's still been easy so far.

Edit: Never mind, 0 good spells. Volcano is terrible when you have a ten health totem on board.
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Camden posted...

Playing my first rumble run right now, and it's not looking so good. Took Shaman with spells cost 2 less and have literally been offered one good spell through my first four picks. I have more copies of Cairne in this deck than good spells.

That said, none of the first four bosses has had anything threatening so it's still been easy so far.

Edit: Never mind, 0 good spells. Volcano is terrible when you have a ten health totem on board.

Oh shit I forgot today was the day it dropped (been on vacation all week). Love the single player content, and this looks fun.
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Mage has a shrine that gives it a Mage themed Moonfire every time something is frozen. They also get a minion that casts a Fireball at a random enemy every time they cast a spell. So of course I have a full board and they play Frost Nova, giving them seven free Fireballs, followed by Blizzard on their next turn, giving them another seven free Fireballs.

That run came to an end awfully damn quick.
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Mage has a shrine that gives it a Mage themed Moonfire every time something is frozen. They also get a minion that casts a Fireball at a random enemy every time they cast a spell. So of course I have a full board and they play Frost Nova, giving them seven free Fireballs, followed by Blizzard on their next turn, giving them another seven free Fireballs.

That run came to an end awfully damn quick.

Edit: The tables have turned. https://imgur.com/mtydVzx
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Just beat Mechathun Priest (Mojomaster Zihi the turn before they used their combo) and Kingsbane Rogue (drew Tirion when my opponent was trying to heal/stabilize) back to back as even paladin, I think thats enough hearthstone for today.

Rumble run.

First game of a set. My opponent is a warlock with the blood spell shrine. His turn 1 is casting demonwrath (which deals 3 to him), followed by hellfire which does 4+3 to him... he dies. I didn't even need to do anything.

xfd
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Meanwhile my first-game opponent Druid has a Turn 1 minion + Double Pounce to turn his shrine into a 4/7.

That was my 0 win run.
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