Board 8 > Smash Ultimate Mafia Topic 8: FREE FOR ALL

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Lolo_Guru
12/05/18 11:07:56 PM
#201:


If anything is weird about pichu as a powerclaim... it's that pikachu was a vanilla.

but that's probably just bad meta.

And ben? I have a serious question.
When you claimed your vanilla flavor (or lack thereof), you seemed sure that all of them would be worded like yours. Why is that?
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Hbthebattle
12/05/18 11:09:24 PM
#202:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Pichu why do I feel like no host should pick pichu as a power. It's a horrible meta but I doubt that anyone would be like yeah pichu let's make him a town power.. out of all the returning players pichu... pichu... I've been wanting to say this but really PICHU! PICHU!

Notice how I got a role that can easily kill me if I'm not careful. Imagine if I used my power on Chris N1.
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Lolo_Guru
12/05/18 11:10:31 PM
#203:


Hbthebattle posted...
TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Pichu why do I feel like no host should pick pichu as a power. It's a horrible meta but I doubt that anyone would be like yeah pichu let's make him a town power.. out of all the returning players pichu... pichu... I've been wanting to say this but really PICHU! PICHU!

Notice how I got a role that can easily kill me if I'm not careful. Imagine if I used my power on Chris N1.

... ok i take my bad meta back this makes perfect sense now
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benjamin3740
12/05/18 11:42:19 PM
#204:


Lolo_Guru posted...
If anything is weird about pichu as a powerclaim... it's that pikachu was a vanilla.

but that's probably just bad meta.

And ben? I have a serious question.
When you claimed your vanilla flavor (or lack thereof), you seemed sure that all of them would be worded like yours. Why is that?

Because it was even if they werent all like mine, I wanted Pen to think they were, and hence get his reaction. I dont think he responded though before other peiople agreed with me.

Also I was pretty sure he was scum before his claim, so I was pretty confident he did mess up.
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Doopliss_Power
12/06/18 1:20:39 AM
#205:


benjamin3740 posted...
Doop wouldnt you say Pichu lightning rod is a big coincidence too?

I... already did, actually. Though less so since there are several lightning-themed characters in Smash, but only Jigglypuff is associated with sleep.
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hombad46
12/06/18 4:41:23 AM
#206:


After day 2 I really dont want to go through this again, especially since we have a claimed cop. Lets do risk reward analysis here:
Lynching Pen today if hes scum means everything is fine
Lynching Pen today if hes town (and doc) means Pirate is dead.
Lynching Pen tomorrow after a guilty read means Pirate is guaranteed to survive the night.

Doing the same thing with Bat gets us:
Lynching Bat today if hes scum means everything is fine
Lynching Bat today if hes town would be unfortunate, but hes been playing badly anyway, and he might give away our doctor if he happens to inspect them, which would help the scum even if hes town.
Lynching Bat tomorrow after a guilty read... well, why scan him and not Pen?

As for why Im inclined to believe Pen:
1. The biggest opponent of his claim is Terra, who is one of my weakest reads either way
2. The reason Pen botched the vanilla claim. Ben and Doop discussed today being a mass claim day yesterday. I think its unlikely the scum wouldnt discuss their claims after that. Now, which of these do you think is more likely:
a. Scum vanilla for some reason have flavor while ours dont
b. They didnt discuss flavor despite there being many flavor centric arguments in this game
or
c. Pen is town power with no vanillas to talk to about flavor
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eaedwards6400
12/06/18 7:26:49 AM
#208:


Deleted post was the host
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Eaed
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geno4smash4
12/06/18 7:30:10 AM
#209:


eaedwards6400 posted...
Deleted post was the host

Rip, game ends?
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eaedwards6400
12/06/18 7:33:22 AM
#210:


Deleting a post is a modkill so I wanted you all to know that it was me.
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hombad46
12/06/18 9:05:44 AM
#211:


vote:eaed
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 9:57:08 AM
#212:


I did say it was horrible metta luckily for battle I think he is town anyways so the claim though in theory sounds really strange it is probably true
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hombad46
12/06/18 9:59:47 AM
#213:


So Sultan, if you had to pick the remaining... probably 3 scum since 2 are already dead, who would you guess they are?

My bets are on Bat, Lolo, and one of Terra/Pen.
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 10:10:51 AM
#214:


Hom I actually agree with you on this bat and lolo seem to he the top too. After pens claim I feel like since battle was explaining that he wasnt the doctor and could exsplain why pirate wasnt blocked. It could be pen is an inexperienced player who was nervous gave real flavor in the face claim and is town trying to protect the fact they are doctor.

Bat I dont by at all. And terra is refusing to claim so terra slightly is leaning more scun over Pen atm.

Like I said Pen is inexsperice is actually a positive point for me beacuse a scum team w ok would have walked him through his claim better and it looks as if it is inexsperice more then a scum fake claim in my opinion
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 11:44:47 AM
#215:


Pen is not town. Simple as that. But I'm kinda just letting this play out so I can see who his freakin scum buddies are
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Lolo_Guru
12/06/18 11:45:03 AM
#216:


Sultan, didn't you also not claim?

I'm very confident that Ben's scum.
##unvote
The true reason for the "reason we can't be scum together", is that that was his favorite defense, and has been in most circumstances, but not here.

In short, he doesn't and hasn't thought about it because he knows as scum that it is nothing he'd ever be called upon to answer for because he knows I'm town.

His answer for why he wasn't scum buds with FD was already on his tongue the moment I suggested it. He felt it something to defend. He had an answer. He did not with me.

So I think I'm still on the right track here.
##vote: Ben
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geno4smash4
12/06/18 11:51:31 AM
#217:


Lolo_Guru posted...
Sultan, didn't you also not claim?

I'm very confident that Ben's scum.
##unvote
The true reason for the "reason we can't be scum together", is that that was his favorite defense, and has been in most circumstances, but not here.

In short, he doesn't and hasn't thought about it because he knows as scum that it is nothing he'd ever be called upon to answer for because he knows I'm town.

His answer for why he wasn't scum buds with FD was already on his tongue the moment I suggested it. He felt it something to defend. He had an answer. He did not with me.

So I think I'm still on the right track here.
##vote: Ben

Wut? Explain why you don't want to vote claimed scum and instead go for Ben.
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Hbthebattle
12/06/18 11:56:10 AM
#218:


benjamin3740 posted...
Pen is not town. Simple as that. But I'm kinda just letting this play out so I can see who his freakin scum buddies are

I agree. Pen is not Town. But I really doubt that Pen is investigative scum, which is who we need to remove at the moment.
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hombad46
12/06/18 11:56:51 AM
#219:


There hasn't been a votals update in almost 200 posts so I've taken the liberty of doing so myself

Votals
[4] Shonen - hombad, Doop, Pen, Pirate
[3] Pendragon - ben, (Doop), (Lolo), Shonen, Terra
[1] Ben - Lolo
[0] FD - (Lolo)
[0] Terra - (Sultan)

Awfully jumpy with that vote today aren't you Lolo?
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 12:00:41 PM
#220:


None has given me a reason to claim so I havent
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 12:30:52 PM
#221:


Pen isn't inexperienced either. He's played a lot and hosted
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 12:37:15 PM
#222:


Game awards are tomight and I'll be intensely focused on them. So we really need to all agree as soon as possible to kill Pen, because I can't be here to make sure it happens. >_>
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 12:38:12 PM
#223:


And Lolo, I'm going to opt to 100% ignore that. I'm not really sure what you were saying anyway
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 12:40:06 PM
#224:


Like my reads are my reads. If you have some of your own, post them. But I dont even agree with that reasoning why we can't be scum together
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 12:46:17 PM
#225:


benjamin3740 posted...
Pen isn't inexperienced either. He's played a lot and hosted


Oh then that changes everything yeah pen is scum
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hombad46
12/06/18 12:53:43 PM
#226:


benjamin3740 posted...
we really need to all agree as soon as possible to kill Pen


Man, the harder you push the riskier of the two preferred lynches the scummier you seem. I'll reiterate:

Risks to lynching Pen: He could be telling the truth about being the doctor, which I think is a simpler explanation for his lack of knowledge about vanilla roles

Going into more detail about that, the possible reasons for that are
1. He really is the doctor and has no one else to compare vanilla flavor to
2. He's scum and they didn't discuss role claims in advance despite you and Doop agreeing to call for a massclaim
3. They did discuss it, yet for some reason scum vanillas have flavor while town vanillas don't

Going off Occam's Razor, I believe 1 to be the simplest and thus most likely situation. Now that he's claimed, the scum have no reason not to kill him so if he's still alive tomorrow I'll definitely be looking that way.

Now on to Bat. The risks to lynching him are that he might be a town prosty. At this point that role has little benefit to us, and more to the scum. Whoever he says he got a positive read on could be scum doing the nightkill, or they could be the doctor protecting Pirate. We don't know.

In summary, Pen is high risk / medium reward, while Bat is low risk / high reward
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eaedwards6400
12/06/18 12:54:31 PM
#227:


The game has been archived for us by Ashethan.

ashchive.altervista.org

http://ashchive.altervista.org/ssbu.html (for the direct link)
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hombad46
12/06/18 12:58:10 PM
#228:


6. Metagaming is allowed, but not encouraged. Metagaming is drawing conclusions based on predictions/expectations of the host, set-up or fellow players.


After day 2 I really see why it isn't encouraged, that was a mess
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 1:09:15 PM
#229:


hombad46 posted...
benjamin3740 posted...
we really need to all agree as soon as possible to kill Pen


Man, the harder you push the riskier of the two preferred lynches the scummier you seem. I'll reiterate:

Risks to lynching Pen: He could be telling the truth about being the doctor, which I think is a simpler explanation for his lack of knowledge about vanilla roles

Going into more detail about that, the possible reasons for that are
1. He really is the doctor and has no one else to compare vanilla flavor to
2. He's scum and they didn't discuss role claims in advance despite you and Doop agreeing to call for a massclaim
3. They did discuss it, yet for some reason scum vanillas have flavor while town vanillas don't

Going off Occam's Razor, I believe 1 to be the simplest and thus most likely situation. Now that he's claimed, the scum have no reason not to kill him so if he's still alive tomorrow I'll definitely be looking that way.

Now on to Bat. The risks to lynching him are that he might be a town prosty. At this point that role has little benefit to us, and more to the scum. Whoever he says he got a positive read on could be scum doing the nightkill, or they could be the doctor protecting Pirate. We don't know.

In summary, Pen is high risk / medium reward, while Bat is low risk / high reward

Oh my god

Terra is doctor. There I said it. Now we both know Pen is scum, and a scum prosty is worthless. Two birds with one stone. I only care so much because scum already know it
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hombad46
12/06/18 1:12:55 PM
#230:


We have a cop that is guaranteed to not die tonight and is fully capable of scanning Terra or Pen. I have no interest in repeating the mistakes of day 2. Besides, Terra said he could "definitively prove" he's not scum. How does doc do that exactly?
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 1:14:15 PM
#231:


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hombad46
12/06/18 1:14:59 PM
#232:


benjamin3740 posted...
By claiming doc


Okay, so it's definitive proof when Terra does it but not when Pen does it because...???
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 1:15:41 PM
#233:


Hey I was really unsure on day 2. This is not day 2
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 1:16:55 PM
#234:


hombad46 posted...
benjamin3740 posted...
By claiming doc


Okay, so it's definitive proof when Terra does it but not when Pen does it because...???

When you're counterclaimed, it's not definitive. Someone who is really doctor would not fear that, and expect to be confirmed
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 1:17:30 PM
#235:


Ben this is the worst logic you've used yet..
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 1:18:55 PM
#236:


But he hasnt claimed doctor he hasnt claimed at all and hasnt he been on your scum list!?!
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hombad46
12/06/18 1:19:41 PM
#237:


benjamin3740 posted...
hombad46 posted...
benjamin3740 posted...
By claiming doc


Okay, so it's definitive proof when Terra does it but not when Pen does it because...???

When you're counterclaimed, it's not definitive. Someone who is really doctor would not fear that, and expect to be confirmed


Confirmed how? By being nightkilled?
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Hbthebattle
12/06/18 1:23:47 PM
#238:


Ben I swear to god what did you just do

Doc, do not claim
Lol Lets expose the doc anyway
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hombad46
12/06/18 1:25:00 PM
#239:


Hbthebattle posted...
Ben I swear to god what did you just do

Doc, do not claim
Lol Lets expose the doc anyway


Exactly. If you think both Pen and Bat are scum, why does which one goes first matter so much to you that you'd reveal who you think the doctor is? What role are you so afraid of Pen having?
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Pirate_Harris
12/06/18 1:41:56 PM
#240:


benjamin3740 posted...
Hey I was really unsure on day 2. This is not day 2

That unsureness killed han on day 2... so much for you being "the living embodiment of han's spirit"

I kinda buy pend as doc...
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 1:54:57 PM
#241:


Shit is lolo right is ben scum?
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hombad46
12/06/18 1:57:42 PM
#242:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Shit is lolo right is ben scum?

It's starting to look like that might be it... But even if he is, I'm not getting off of Bat. Confirmed investigative power + my earlier ISO + self-voting = has my vote.
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Lolo_Guru
12/06/18 2:03:38 PM
#243:


benjamin3740 posted...
Like my reads are my reads. If you have some of your own, post them. But I dont even agree with that reasoning why we can't be scum together

The reasoning we can't be scum together isn't the point.

The point is you had something to say specifically, directly, concisely, to when I suggested you were scum with FD, a "why can't I be scum buds with FD defense" But you had nothing on mind for me. You hadn't thought about it.

Why would you have something in mind right away for why you can't be scum with FD but not me?
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TheSultanOfSlam
12/06/18 2:14:43 PM
#244:


hombad46 posted...
TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Shit is lolo right is ben scum?

It's starting to look like that might be it... But even if he is, I'm not getting off of Bat. Confirmed investigative power + my earlier ISO + self-voting = has my vote.

Good point I've been thinking bat over pen my self
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Forceful_Dragon
12/06/18 2:19:04 PM
#245:


Lolo_Guru posted...
benjamin3740 posted...
Like my reads are my reads. If you have some of your own, post them. But I dont even agree with that reasoning why we can't be scum together

The reasoning we can't be scum together isn't the point.

The point is you had something to say specifically, directly, concisely, to when I suggested you were scum with FD, a "why can't I be scum buds with FD defense" But you had nothing on mind for me. You hadn't thought about it.

Why would you have something in mind right away for why you can't be scum with FD but not me?


Here's a point you are overlooking.

NO ONE can be scum with FD because FD isn't fucking scum.

How are you this inclined to waste your time that you still think this.

.

Also I had a rough night of migraines and various bodily fluids so I'm a bit out of sorts at the moment. And I still have to be at work in 3 hours because life isn't fair.
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 2:27:47 PM
#246:


Uhhh, if I've figured it out, scum probably has. Lolo was actually the one who "OMG EXPOSED" Terra. Terra made it pretty obvious. I'm here putting town on the same page that scum is more than likely already on.

Pen was countered. End of story. Terra is getting nightkilled tonight. Kill Pen today
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 2:28:26 PM
#247:


TheSultanOfSlam posted...
Ben this is the worst logic you've used yet..

What logic? I'm stating facts
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 2:30:07 PM
#248:


Hbthebattle posted...
Ben I swear to god what did you just do

Doc, do not claim
Lol Lets expose the doc anyway

If they're exposed they exposed themself. It's not my fault
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 2:31:22 PM
#249:


hombad46 posted...
Hbthebattle posted...
Ben I swear to god what did you just do

Doc, do not claim
Lol Lets expose the doc anyway


Exactly. If you think both Pen and Bat are scum, why does which one goes first matter so much to you that you'd reveal who you think the doctor is? What role are you so afraid of Pen having?

I don't feel nearly as confident about Shonen bat being scum. Our only other claimed investigative role is Pirate, in 18. That's a pretty big hole
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 2:32:25 PM
#250:


Pirate_Harris posted...
benjamin3740 posted...
Hey I was really unsure on day 2. This is not day 2

That unsureness killed han on day 2... so much for you being "the living embodiment of han's spirit"

I kinda buy pend as doc...

I voted Scare, and begged everyone to side with Han. And here you all go not listening to me again :P
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benjamin3740
12/06/18 2:34:32 PM
#251:


If Pen was doc he'd know his death means the game is basically over for town. Pen is not showing drive or care.

And Terra counter claimed
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