Poll of the Day > Is disciplinary spanking of children "abuse"??? (In your OWN OPINION)

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shipwreckers
12/03/18 3:49:19 AM
1
NOTE: I'm NOT talking about any sort of all-out beating that leaves any marks. By "spanking" I mean a basic whap on the butt intended for course-correction. - Results (4 votes)
A) Yes. I was spanked as a child, and I consider it abuse.
0% (0 votes)
0
B) Yes. I wasn't spanked as a child, and I consider it abuse.
25% (1 vote)
1
C) No. I was spanked as a child, and I don't consider it abuse.
50% (2 votes)
2
D) No. I wasn't spanked as a child, and I don't consider it abuse.
25% (1 vote)
1
E) I can't really decide one way or the other. (Too many variables.)
0% (0 votes)
0
F) I can't really decide, because I don't give a shit about the issue.
0% (0 votes)
0
G) Other.
0% (0 votes)
0
There seems to be a bit of a "pendulum-swing" effect on this, with opinions shifting back and forth on the issue over time. I've heard people give good examples both FOR and AGAINST the overall concept of disciplinary spanking, on principle (with valid logic on both sides).

For me personally, I had the crap beaten out of me regularly growing up, but I never considered it abusive (neither now in hindsight, nor at the time). But, to be fair, I had "good" parents, who explained my wrongdoing, and frankly, I often had it coming (as much as I misbehaved / disobeyed). Not everybody has the same parenting package.

NOTE: This is just straight up data-gathering here. I'm not trying to prove one side "right" or "wrong." I'm just trying to get a sense of people's general opinions, and if possible, the rationale behind those opinions.

Vote it up, peeps!!!
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MICHALECOLE
12/03/18 4:12:49 AM
2
Bare butt or not?
GanglyKhan
12/03/18 4:15:00 AM
3
No, as long as it is repeated in excess and doesn't leave long lasting pain or any type of lasting damage.

That being said, I find it horribly ineffective in the long run because all it does is give them the idea that using direct methods of force and confrontation is an appropriate means of getting something to happen, which, for 99% of children and 95% of adults, isn't the case. I feel that it just sets them up for failure when it comes to expectations vs reality.

Edit: I'm also not saying that it's gonna ruin their life or anything stupidly drastic, just that it fails to really teach them anything useful. All it really serves is the parent(s).
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Yellow
12/03/18 4:38:25 AM
4
Spanking is a perfectly valid method of discipline for people who actually cannot control a 5 year old without hitting them.

Last resort, physical strength when intelligence is matched.
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mooreandrew58
12/03/18 4:53:30 AM
5
GanglyKhan posted...
No, as long as it is repeated in excess and doesn't leave long lasting pain or any type of lasting damage.

That being said, I find it horribly ineffective in the long run because all it does is give them the idea that using direct methods of force and confrontation is an appropriate means of getting something to happen, which, for 99% of children and 95% of adults, isn't the case. I feel that it just sets them up for failure when it comes to expectations vs reality.

Edit: I'm also not saying that it's gonna ruin their life or anything stupidly drastic, just that it fails to really teach them anything useful. All it really serves is the parent(s).


It taught me there was consequences for my actions and I'd be held accountable. If the parent fails to teach that part of it then they goofed.

Now my mom was a punishment fits the crime type of mother she didn't incorporate physical punishment for say bad grades or not doing my chores. But shit like hitting my brother yeah I got my ass beat.
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b_hamnite
12/03/18 7:45:36 AM
6
We stopped disciplining children years ago and look where we are now. A pop on the butt is what many kids need these days.
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SunWuKung420
12/03/18 7:48:59 AM
7
I was spanked. It's not abuse, it's not the most effective but it can bring results.
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Kyuubi4269
12/03/18 8:03:58 AM
8
Not when done appropriately, which I consider any time the child acts in a way that would cause a stranger to hit them.
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slacker03150
12/03/18 8:10:32 AM
9
It can be, but generally speaking too many parent suck at being parents and it tends to lean towards abuse.
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wwinterj25
12/03/18 8:33:14 AM
10
No it isn't child abuse and I got the shit beaten out of me.
Still I prefer other methods of punishment. I mean despite getting beatings it never actually changed my behaviour.
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Judgmenl
12/03/18 8:36:59 AM
11
"Yes"

That's all.
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Huff n puff 20
12/03/18 8:46:17 AM
12
Some where between No and Hell No.
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Mead
12/03/18 8:58:40 AM
13
It depends.

How hard is the kid being spanked? Is the parent angry when spanking them? Is the child learning from it or just being hurt?
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mooreandrew58
12/03/18 9:02:15 AM
14
Mead posted...
It depends.

How hard is the kid being spanked? Is the parent angry when spanking them? Is the child learning from it or just being hurt?
Depends on the kid too. Brother and I where raised exactly the same. We are very similar on some things but night and day on others. Example being I drink and I smoke. Have done drugs he's as straight edge as they get. I did my homework and school work. Him just enough to get by (fortunately he did amazing on tests)
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wwinterj25
12/03/18 9:08:21 AM
15
Mead posted...
Is the parent angry when spanking them?


I'd imagine so.
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ParanoidObsessive
12/03/18 9:49:24 AM
16
wwinterj25 posted...
Mead posted...
Is the parent angry when spanking them?

I'd imagine so.

I think the point of the question was more "Are you hitting the child with the intent to discipline, or are you hitting the child to vent your own frustration?"

Because one of those is a lot more "abuse" than the other.


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Fam_Fam
12/03/18 10:14:52 AM
17
hitting anyone because you are angry is abuse/assault.
Kyuubi4269
12/03/18 10:18:32 AM
18
Fam_Fam posted...
hitting anyone because you are angry is abuse/assault.

That's what he said (however assault isn't always abuse).
---
Doctor Foxx posted...
The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas.
TsC_PoLiTiKz
12/03/18 10:59:12 AM
19
Not really abuse, but I will say it doesn't do crap to teach your kids a meaningful lesson.

Like... If your kids are so awful you need to hit them, you're failing.
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Jen0125
12/03/18 11:00:10 AM
20
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?
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Kyuubi4269
12/03/18 11:07:45 AM
21
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?

You can invoke defenses like defense of others, i.e. You hit your child because your child hit others.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas.
shipwreckers
12/03/18 11:10:49 AM
22
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?


You can explain intellectually to an adult that they shouldn't run into a busy street. You can't explain that intellectually to a 2 year old (and even if you could, they'd forget everything you said in 5 minutes).

Conflating hitting adults with "spanking" children is absurd.
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Judgmenl
12/03/18 11:29:14 AM
23
a 2 year old shouldn't be left alone long enough to be running into a street.
---
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shipwreckers
12/03/18 11:37:49 AM
24
Judgmenl posted...
a 2 year old shouldn't be left alone long enough to be running into a street.


You don't have to "leave them alone." Real-life (especially, when you have 4 kids or more), doesn't allow you to watch them like a hawk every nanosecond. Try putting 4 kids into a van at once, by yourself, and you'll see how quickly a kid can get himself into a pickle, regardless of your effort.

Whatever "padded wall" universe you think parents should provide for their kids is unrealistic at best, and outright fantasy at worst.
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Judgmenl
12/03/18 11:49:42 AM
25
Adults shouldn't be allowed to have 4 or more kids, there is no reason for that anymore, and if those adults have 4 or more kids they should be making enough money to properly support them.
I think you're making up crap so that people agree with you.
---
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ParanoidObsessive
12/03/18 11:54:48 AM
26
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?

If confining an adult to a room against their will gets you arrested for "kidnapping" or "holding someone hostage", how can it possibly be appropriate to ground a child?


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Chewster
12/03/18 11:54:57 AM
27
Jesus Christ this board is fucking braindead
ParanoidObsessive
12/03/18 11:57:56 AM
28
shipwreckers posted...
You can explain intellectually to an adult that they shouldn't run into a busy street. You can't explain that intellectually to a 2 year old (and even if you could, they'd forget everything you said in 5 minutes).

It's psychologically proven that children's brains don't work the same way adult brains do. Most children are literally incapable of abstract thinking until around 12 or so, most younger children lack the capacity for direct empathy (ie, seeing the world through someone else's eyes), and so on.

The entire point of developmental psychology as a field is breaking down exactly how the brain functions at any given time and reacting to it appropriately as opposed to assuming "one size fits all" rules for psycho-social behavior.


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JCvgluvr
12/03/18 12:00:35 PM
29
Judgmenl posted...
Adults shouldn't be allowed to have 4 or more kids, there is no reason for that anymore

I'm the oldest of 5 kids, and I love my large family very dearly. Each and every sibling means the world to me.

So what I'm trying to say is you can take this erroneous train of thought and shove it. Hard.
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InfestedAdam
12/03/18 12:11:50 PM
30
I had the typical Asian parents growing up. Could my parents have kept me in line as a kid without physical force? Sure. Did it get the message across when they used physical force? It sure did.

Whether or not their actions when they resorted to physical force influenced me in becoming the person I am today, I truly don't know. But I do not resent my parents for what they did whenever I was out-of-line or did something stupid.

Both of them worked their arse off to so that my sister and I would have the opportunities we did throughout our childhood. I know they loved us even if it was sometime on the receiving end of a broom, metal coat hanger, back of the hand, etc.
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shipwreckers
12/03/18 12:17:46 PM
31
Judgmenl posted...
Adults shouldn't be allowed to have 4 or more kids, there is no reason for that anymore, and if those adults have 4 or more kids they should be making enough money to properly support them.
I think you're making up crap so that people agree with you.


Well, the kid quantity argument is a whole discussion in and of itself. My bro-in-law just had his 4th kid. He's got 3 girls and a boy (and this fourth kid he said he wasn't "expecting," but life happens).

I actually agree that families shouldn't just keep procreating ad nauseam (especially in low-income situations, which ironically is where over-population happens them most, since they can't afford contraceptives / vasectomies). But I'm not making that up. That's just statistics.
http://www.nccp.org/publications/pub_1074.html

"Children represent 24 percent of the population, but they comprise 34 percent of all people in poverty." Impoverished families send to have higher kid populations (regardless of good parenting efforts).

If you think I'm fabricating my bro-in-law's 3 girls and boy prove a point, that's your choice. But even people who FINANCIALLY can handle large families still often end up struggling in the actual MANAGEMENT of said family. For people who struggle financially, it's even harder.
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Mead
12/03/18 12:28:42 PM
32
Judgmenl posted...
a 2 year old shouldn't be left alone long enough to be running into a street.


People that say this shit have never had kids. They get into trouble. Kids spend a large portion of their energy trying to discover new ways to hurt themselves. No one can keep their eyes glued to them 24/7
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If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood
Judgmenl
12/03/18 12:42:50 PM
33
I'm sorry let me be most specific.

We should progress to a culture where it is undesirable to have kids outsider of your means. The concept of "breeding' due to necessity is no longer a requirement for our culture. I do not promote any government enforcing this rule, you should be aware of what you can and cannot do as a person, or family and be responsible.

Also some people shouldn't breed period because they lack the mental stability required for it.

shipwreckers posted...
If you think I'm fabricating my bro-in-law's 3 girls and boy prove a point, that's your choice. But even people who FINANCIALLY can handle large families still often end up struggling in the actual MANAGEMENT of said family. For people who struggle financially, it's even harder.


I think this entire thread is an elaborate troll to get people to start flaming and to have posts deleted for being against the site's rules. Welcome to the internet.
---
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Mead
12/03/18 12:44:54 PM
34
judgmenl cant be bothered to clean dog shit out of the room where he sleeps but he should dictate how society runs apparently
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If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood
Jen0125
12/03/18 1:33:12 PM
35
shipwreckers posted...
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?


You can explain intellectually to an adult that they shouldn't run into a busy street. You can't explain that intellectually to a 2 year old (and even if you could, they'd forget everything you said in 5 minutes).

Conflating hitting adults with "spanking" children is absurd.


How does hitting a 2 year old explain they shouldn't run into a street?
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Jen0125
12/03/18 1:35:05 PM
36
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?

If confining an adult to a room against their will gets you arrested for "kidnapping" or "holding someone hostage", how can it possibly be appropriate to ground a child?



These aren't even comparable. You don't generally lock a child in their room to ground them. You just tell them to sit in there. If you're really holding an adult hostage that is kidnapping. If you are actually not allowing your child to ever leave the house or you're locking them in their room for prolonged periods of time that can be abusive.
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shipwreckers
12/03/18 1:41:30 PM
37
Mead posted...
Judgmenl posted...
a 2 year old shouldn't be left alone long enough to be running into a street.


People that say this shit have never had kids. They get into trouble. Kids spend a large portion of their energy trying to discover new ways to hurt themselves. No one can keep their eyes glued to them 24/7


This is so true it hurts. I myself was particularly accident prone growing up. I once tried to climb my chest of drawers like a ladder to get one of my brothers toys off the top, since it was out of my reach. The entire chest of drawers then tipped forward falling on top of me. The very top tip of it happened to catch the edge of our lower bunk bed, so thankfully only the weight of the drawers came fully on me. I then laid there pinned underneath while my mom and brother had to work together to lift the chest and drawer contents off of me.

Then there was the time I tried to lift the glass from a glass coffee table with my hands and feet while laying underneath (where the long glass top sat on 4 pins). I wanted to see if I could lift the glass entirely off the chrome settings and get it back into place without dropping it. It didn't work, and the glass shattered. Thankfully the only thing sitting on the table was a big photo album, that plopped down onto my chest. Pieces of glass went everywhere.

In both cases, I somehow walked away without a scratch.
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ParanoidObsessive
12/03/18 1:57:03 PM
38
Jen0125 posted...
These aren't even comparable. You don't generally lock a child in their room to ground them. You just tell them to sit in there. If you're really holding an adult hostage that is kidnapping.

So you're saying that your idea of being grounded is being told to just stay in your room, but if you just randomly decide to wander out wherever you feel like going, up to and including leaving the house, then parents should take absolutely no action to react to you in any way, or punish you for defying your previous punishment? And that parents have zero right to ever impede or restrict their children's rights to go wherever they choose?

Or would you implicitly accept that parents have the right to restrict the behaviors and movement for their own good? Because doing so absolutely falls into the category for forced coercion if you attempt to do the exact same thing to an adult. Even grabbing a child as he attempts to run directly into traffic could technically count as an assault charge if you do it to an adult and they object to your doing so.

By the logic of your own flawed analogy, we literally cannot apply different standards to adults and children, and what would be a crime when applied to adults is by definition a crime when applied to children.

It's almost as if we treat children like children, and not just short adults. What an amazing concept!



Jen0125 posted...
If you are actually not allowing your child to ever leave the house or you're locking them in their room for prolonged periods of time that can be abusive.

Nearly every parenting behavior ever practiced by humans - even ones parents today think are perfectly acceptable and enlightened - can be abusive if practiced to excess. But having the potential for abuse doesn't automatically equate to being abuse. That's where you start falling into the slippery slope fallacy.

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shipwreckers
12/03/18 2:43:23 PM
39
Jen0125 posted...
shipwreckers posted...
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?


You can explain intellectually to an adult that they shouldn't run into a busy street. You can't explain that intellectually to a 2 year old (and even if you could, they'd forget everything you said in 5 minutes).

Conflating hitting adults with "spanking" children is absurd.


How does hitting a 2 year old explain they shouldn't run into a street?


It's not just "running into a street." You can deter ANY potentially hazardous behavior by spanking, because the discomfort of the spank outweighs the potential thrill of whatever the heck the kid wants to do (running with a sharpened pencil, climbing onto a wobbly table, etc.) Pain is a very effective motivator and useful for course-correction (especially when spoken word is going to be ultimately ineffective; as PO explained).

I feel genuinely sad that this needed to be explained.
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Jen0125
12/03/18 3:49:26 PM
40
shipwreckers posted...
Jen0125 posted...
shipwreckers posted...
Jen0125 posted...
Yes, it's abuse. And it's also assault. If you can get arrested for hitting an adult why would it be appropriate to hit a child?


You can explain intellectually to an adult that they shouldn't run into a busy street. You can't explain that intellectually to a 2 year old (and even if you could, they'd forget everything you said in 5 minutes).

Conflating hitting adults with "spanking" children is absurd.


How does hitting a 2 year old explain they shouldn't run into a street?


It's not just "running into a street." You can deter ANY potentially hazardous behavior by spanking, because the discomfort of the spank outweighs the potential thrill of whatever the heck the kid wants to do (running with a sharpened pencil, climbing onto a wobbly table, etc.) Pain is a very effective motivator and useful for course-correction (especially when spoken word is going to be ultimately ineffective; as PO explained).

I feel genuinely sad that this needed to be explained.


There are any number of sources you can look up that show spanking is not effective and is a detriment to children.

But if you want to hit your kids have at it. Some people need an excuse for everything. Effective communication is too hard for some people.
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Locke90
12/03/18 3:54:24 PM
41
Judgmenl posted...
a 2 year old shouldn't be left alone long enough to be running into a street.

2 year olds are fast little buggers there one minute gone the next.
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SunWuKung420
12/03/18 4:03:40 PM
42
Lol at people that don't want children and that have terrible relationships with one or both parents, thinking their thoughts on parenting are valid.
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Locke90
12/03/18 4:07:22 PM
43
Also wish to add that id rather give my son a smack for running across the road than having to explain to his mum that we now have a dead kid...
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shipwreckers
12/03/18 4:12:30 PM
44
Jen0125 posted...
There are any number of sources you can look up that show spanking is not effective and is a detriment to children.

But if you want to hit your kids have at it. Some people need an excuse for everything. Effective communication is too hard for some people.


I realize a gamefaqs poll doesn't represent a peer-reviewed study from an ivy-league school, but these "sources" are all in direct contradiction with the information in the very poll above (and this is Gamefaqs we're talking about; which overwhelmingly consists of NON-conservative people). If you look hard enough, you can find "sources" to back up just about anything. But, we're just talking based on everyday, general experiences of the people here. The statistics don't agree with you.

I mean sure, we'd all love to pull off Supernanny's perfect techniques, and most parent's aren't going to lead off with physically whapping a kid. Of COURSE they're going to attempt spoken rebukes first (at least a good parent will make that effort).

Also, if you got genuinely "abused" as a kid (and granted, many kids do), I certainly don't want to minimize that, or defend that by any means. Abuse is horrible. But for every source that says spanking is "bad," I can find just as many saying it's "good." Were it not for the poll being so slanted towards a non-abusive viewpoint, I would say this is a polarizing issue. But it doesn't even seem that polarized. The general consensus (at least so far) seems to be that spanking isn't abusive (and that's coming from people who actually WERE spanked). Ironically, from the people who DO consider it abusive, only a mere 30 percent of them were actually spanked themselves. They must be basing their entire argument on your "sources," because based on actual real-life experience, they have zero point of reference.
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Jen0125
12/03/18 4:32:38 PM
45
SunWuKung420 posted...
Lol at people that don't want children and that have terrible relationships with one or both parents, thinking their thoughts on parenting are valid.


You can also hit your kids if you want to. No skin off my back.
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Sefrig
12/03/18 4:33:01 PM
46
stop beating your children lol
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Jen0125
12/03/18 4:34:28 PM
47
shipwreckers posted...
I realize a gamefaqs poll doesn't represent a peer-reviewed study from an ivy-league school, but these "sources" are all in direct contradiction with the information in the very poll above (and this is Gamefaqs we're talking about; which overwhelmingly consists of NON-conservative people). If you look hard enough, you can find "sources" to back up just about anything. But, we're just talking based on everyday, general experiences of the people here. The statistics don't agree with you.


Your poll is asking if people think it's abuse. It's not asking about the effects of spanking or whether it's effective. Those are completely different things. If you don't want to believe actual studies just so you can hit your children that is your choice. Hit your children all you want.
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McSame_as_Bush
12/03/18 5:10:28 PM
48
Yes.
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RCtheWSBC
12/03/18 5:11:19 PM
49
Jen0125 posted...
Hit your children all you want.

but actually don't do this pls
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shipwreckers
12/03/18 5:14:04 PM
50
Jen0125 posted...
Your poll is asking if people think it's abuse. It's not asking about the effects of spanking or whether it's effective. Those are completely different things. If you don't want to believe actual studies just so you can hit your children that is your choice. Hit your children all you want.


Since you're hung up on studies and sources, I suppose we can just can let the sources speak.

Here's some research AGAINST spanking, citing multiple peer-reviewed studies (references at bottom).
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201309/research-spanking-it-s-bad-all-kids

Here's some research IN FAVOR of spanking, citing multiple peer-reviewed studies (references at bottom).
https://goodparent.org/corporal-punishment/research-on-corporal-punishment/evidence-favoring-the-use-of-disciplinary-spanking/

Scientific American did a good report explaining the complexity.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

[FROM THE ARTICLE]
"Many experts argue that this form of punishmenthitting a child on the bottom with an open handincreases the risk that kids will develop emotional and behavioral problems. Other scientists counter that research on the issue is fraught with problems, making it impossible to draw black-and-white conclusions. A new meta-analysis addresses several of the most contentious points in the debate and concludes that spanking does pose risks, but differences of opinion persist."

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree regarding the "effectiveness" argument. But at least it's nice to have a bit more perspective on the abuse issue.
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