Board 8 > Gauntlet Crew Ranks Sci Fi Films I-2

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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 12:37:38 PM
#201:


Wait, you're fine with Game of Thrones but NOT Terminator? There's a prostitute that has sex in Game of Thrones and they literally TERMINATE HER.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 12:45:30 PM
#202:


See, Sarah Connor wasn't a prostitute though. And we had a sex scene in Terminator without the nudity. Like yes, we know sex brings babies. Yes, I'm not saying the entire scene should have been terminated from the film. But we didn't need the full sex feature. We know what's going to happen, we know they're going to screw because that's what the movie built it up to be, we don't need a full minute and a half of swapping who's on top. We don't need her topless to prove that's what's happening.
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LinkMarioSamus
12/01/18 12:54:00 PM
#203:


I'm not entirely sure about Terminator 1 being one of my favorite movies (the 2nd one though, oh my), but it's amazing James Cameron was able to direct a movie with so much mayhem on such a tight budget, while at the same time finding room for a fair amount of character development.

Probably wouldn't say it's better than 2001, Alien, Blade Runner, or Robocop though. All you guys want is fast-paced action from your old movies argh. Seriously, the fact that the oldest movie in your top 10 is from 1985 is a bit of a disgrace.

For comparison purposes, last year there was a survey in Britain (specifically through Sky network) about the best science-fiction films of all time. I remember the top 20, so here goes:

1) Back to the Future
2) Blade Runner
3) Aliens
4) Return of the Jedi
5) The Empire Strikes Back
6) E.T.
7) Alien
8) The Matrix
9) Avatar
10) Jurassic Park
11) Men in Black
12) Ghostbusters (1984)
13) Star Wars
14) Terminator 2
15) The Force Awakens
16) The Terminator
17) Rogue One
18) Close Encounters of the Third Kind
19) I, Robot
20) Planet of the Apes (1968)

All things considered, I still have a hard time fathoming Independence Day being only a spot below 2001. Though I understand that both films have different enough appeal, but I don't want to seem like I hate popcorn cinema! I mean I probably prefer Raiders of the Lost Ark to 2001.
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Anagram
12/01/18 12:58:18 PM
#204:


I'm surprised Donnie Darko is still up.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 12:58:44 PM
#205:


Anagram posted...
I'm surprised Donnie Darko is still up.


Well we find it kind of funny, and we find it kind of sad.
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v_charon
12/01/18 12:58:58 PM
#206:


Clearly people from the 80's stopped getting naked to have sex. Realism should be protected.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 12:59:22 PM
#207:


Would Wickle have been okay with dick if it was clear that a condom was covering said phallus?
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Johnbobb
12/01/18 1:01:47 PM
#208:


well now I really want to run that LGBT list

bet Wickle would love Blue is the Warmest Color
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WickIebee
12/01/18 1:08:18 PM
#209:


v_charon posted...
Clearly people from the 80's stopped getting naked to have sex. Realism should be protected.


Like I should finally just say this is still putting words in my mouth. Being naked while having sex doesn't suddenly make the sex degenerate and a 1/10 for me. It's private. To me, sex being shown in a movie is like public sex.
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PrinceKaro
12/01/18 1:11:35 PM
#210:


But like, the camera is not supposed to really 'exist' in the movie world (unless you are Deadpool)

so it is still 'private' in-universe
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:11:58 PM
#211:


PrinceKaro posted...
But like, the camera is not supposed to really 'exist' in the movie world (unless you are Deadpool)

so it is still 'private' in-universe

Except in Crank.
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Lopen
12/01/18 1:14:15 PM
#212:


Sometimes I wonder why wicklebee is even doing this list when I can just look at the MPAA film rating description and call it a day

Anyway yeah Aliens and T2 being the higher rated films is JUSTICE but I totally get and respect fans of the original in both cases. Rarely happens!
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:16:55 PM
#213:


Wow, that was a Becky Lynch on Twitter quality diss, Lopen.

Fuck, I mentioned Becky Lynch he's going to kill me.
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Lopen
12/01/18 1:17:56 PM
#214:


Nah I had my avocado toast this morning I'm good
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:20:10 PM
#215:


Look at all these millennials saying that Aliens is better than Alien.
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GenesisSaga
12/01/18 1:23:38 PM
#216:


But it is
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WickIebee
12/01/18 1:25:31 PM
#217:


Lopen posted...
Sometimes I wonder why wicklebee is even doing this list when I can just look at the MPAA film rating description and call it a day


That's not always guaranteed... But people are just going to put words in my mouth anyway so why do I bother. I feel like it's better if I just do joke write-ups.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:30:56 PM
#218:


GenesisSaga posted...
But it is

If you don't know the reference...

EDIT: Weird, it cut off my post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpRVCVeW_UA" data-time="

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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:31:25 PM
#219:


WickIebee posted...
Lopen posted...
Sometimes I wonder why wicklebee is even doing this list when I can just look at the MPAA film rating description and call it a day


That's not always guaranteed... But people are just going to put words in my mouth anyway so why do I bother. I feel like it's better if I just do joke write-ups.

If you feel like that, the onus is honestly on you to change minds.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 1:34:43 PM
#220:


scarletspeed7 posted...
If you feel like that, the onus is honestly on you to change minds.


No one gives a shit about me anyway. It's always proven by my topics. I don't have the motivation or confidence to handle things when it ends up feeling like that.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:38:54 PM
#221:


If no one gave a shit, there wouldn't have just been a bajillion posts in discord about it. Because if no one gave a shit, they wouldn't have posted.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 1:42:23 PM
#222:


I mean, plenty are just mocking me. No one even wanted to see me clarify it, just insult it. It's everything some people do with me... at least feels like it. Few people like me genuinely despite how much I try, I'm just a loner.
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Lopen
12/01/18 1:43:51 PM
#223:


I just think there actually are a lot of flaws in T1 and "legitimate" reasons to have it that low (as KBM said in her writeup the action scenes can feel repetitive for example) but when you've got one of the great movies of the genre in 28th place and spend 3/4 the write-up talking about boobs and Arnold's dick, yeah, I'm inclined to make fun of the write-up because it may as well be a joke write-up at that point. Maybe it'd have a better punchline than "the story wasn't bad but there was a simplemindedness to it" too.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 1:45:27 PM
#224:


There's a difference between mocking you and just poking fun. And people like you, so that's not it either.

The jokes are the opportunity for you to clarify it. But at the same time, you need to be self-aware enough to see that your position can come off as unreasonable, and why that may be. The onus, as always, is on you.
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MetalmindStats
12/01/18 6:50:58 PM
#225:


WickIebee posted...
Anagram posted...
I'm surprised Donnie Darko is still up.


Well we find it kind of funny, and we find it kind of sad.

Underrated post imo.
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v_charon
12/01/18 6:59:30 PM
#226:


WickIebee posted...
I mean, plenty are just mocking me. No one even wanted to see me clarify it, just insult it. It's everything some people do with me... at least feels like it. Few people like me genuinely despite how much I try, I'm just a loner.


It's because we all want to be naked together and feel you won't join in.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 7:09:54 PM
#227:


I feel like Charon has changed so much from when I first knew him.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 8:02:19 PM
#228:


v_charon posted...
WickIebee posted...
I mean, plenty are just mocking me. No one even wanted to see me clarify it, just insult it. It's everything some people do with me... at least feels like it. Few people like me genuinely despite how much I try, I'm just a loner.


It's because we all want to be naked together and feel you won't join in.


For the 16th fucking time today, there's a goddamn difference between nudity in private and nudity in public. I've already made a goddamn post in this topic about that subject too.
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v_charon
12/01/18 8:09:08 PM
#229:


But it still doesn't make any sense because the characters you are referring to were alone, they were the only two there. I don't think you realize that movies are meant to show you a glimpse of other people's lives, and therefore you see intimate things between those characters. It makes it "private" and not "degrading".

Saying that it isn't necessary to show the scene itself or that it's better that it's just implied is also ridiculous. I mean, the movie could have just opened with Arnold dropping into the current time period then cut directly to the end in the factory. The rest could have just been implied.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 8:12:26 PM
#230:


Well, watching someone in every part of their life is stalking. We don't need to see them fuck, there's no real reason they can't be intimate without sharing that literal scene. Like I already said, they were working well into it. There's a genre for fucking, this shouldn't be that.

EDIT: To say it in an easier thing. We shouldn't have softcore porn in movies. That's most of my argument.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 8:23:49 PM
#231:


v_charon posted...
I mean, the movie could have just opened with Arnold dropping into the current time period then cut directly to the end in the factory. The rest could have just been implied.

This is almost an argument to tank this movie lower if nothing was essential.

WickIebee posted...
Well, watching someone in every part of their life is stalking. We don't need to see them fuck, there's no real reason they can't be intimate without sharing that literal scene. Like I already said, they were working well into it. There's a genre for fucking, this shouldn't be that.

So what you're saying is that you know the story better than the director. I think what I bump on most in your faux-cial commentary on movies is that there is a complete aspect of fantasy booking to how you review these things moralistically. Are you saying that you know these characters better than the creators of said characters? I think you can dislike something, but you need to at least respect it. If a movie is well-regarded critically, commercially, etc., it deserves to be treated with a certain amount of deference. So by saying, "this is unnecessary," what you should really say is, "I just don't like this stuff BUT I see its value to the story." Because the story is in fact reliant on that scene to convey the intense, momentary passion and maybe even love that Sarah finds in Reese. It actually matters to the series because she doesn't love another man ever. She loves him; she places him on a pedestal afterwards. It's very much a widow/widower mentality. And the scene helps to convey that.
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v_charon
12/01/18 8:27:38 PM
#232:


scarletspeed7 posted...

This is almost an argument to tank this movie lower if nothing was essential.


I argued earlier that the scene between Kyle and Sarah was essential; it's a major plot point in the Terminator universe. It's just as essential as any other part of this film, and I'm not some huge prude that can't handle a little intimacy on the screen.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 8:27:39 PM
#233:


scarletspeed7 posted...
So by saying, "this is unnecessary," what you should really say is, "I just don't like this stuff BUT I see its value to the story."


The thing is, the reason I'm so vehemently arguing about it is because I don't see its value to the story. I already SAW the passion that had value to the story with the circumstances before the softcore porn. And I'm arguing that the softcore porn adds nothing to the value of the already passionate scene. Is THAT fair?
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JONALEON1
12/01/18 8:34:43 PM
#234:


Snake5555555555 posted...
Got 7/10 right in top 10 predix.


9/10 right in top 10

get on my level
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v_charon
12/01/18 8:36:22 PM
#235:


There are many scenes in film that have importance but you could edit out because things can easily be implied how about The Lion King. Mufasa's death. Instead of seeing Simba's heartbreaking pleas for his father to get up, we could just cut straight to Scar and the hyenas chasing him off. Why keep this sad moment in a kid's film, ya know? We know he's dead, he fell off a cliff. Pointless interlude!

Films include content that isn't always meant for every member of the family. If every film just glazed over moments because they were violent or sexual in nature, would there really be anything left to enjoy? Something would feel missing I think.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 8:36:34 PM
#236:


v_charon posted...
scarletspeed7 posted...

This is almost an argument to tank this movie lower if nothing was essential.


I argued earlier that the scene between Kyle and Sarah was essential; it's a major plot point in the Terminator universe. It's just as essential as any other part of this film, and I'm not some huge prude that can't handle a little intimacy on the screen.

No, I was agreeing with you. The means to an end which is, "you don't need the movie at all, I have wikipedia."

WickIebee posted...
The thing is, the reason I'm so vehemently arguing about it is because I don't see its value to the story. I already SAW the passion that had value to the story with the circumstances before the softcore porn. And I'm arguing that the softcore porn adds nothing to the value of the already passionate scene. Is THAT fair?

I actually am going to say no. Because I feel like I just laid out why that scene is not only a reason why its integral to the movie but also to the entire series, and you hadn't seen that passion. There was a caregiver level of relationship, a sort of Disneyesque almost-but-not-quite romance. This also isn't softcore pornography. It really isn't. There is a difference artistically, there is a difference thematically, and this scene isn't about sex. I would argue that being focused on sex for the sake of sex is being short-sighted. This is the consummation of both the entire series and the story of John Conner. I think that there is also this idea that the fight against purely calculated robot computation is combated with this good, healthy, loving moment. A moment that is untainted in the rest of the series. Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner are an example of one of the times where sex is completely necessary to a movie. And we're not talking about a particularly long scene or anything. Again, what I bump on is your use of the term softcore pornography.

My dad called West Wing a soap opera when I was in high school, and I always fought him on that because the term is a demeaning term representative of quality. Porn is a demeaning term, especially when you volley it. And this is the opposite kind of sex than what you get in porn. I really hesitate to say this because I think you will shut down what else I said, but you have to find a certain level of maturity where you can find the nuance in something. Because clearly you allow it with gratuitous violence sometimes and with language at other times, but it's never really about the content or character of the film and more of just a quantified, almost robotic, cold measurement.

And that's just my perspective on it, and I'm not saying your opinion on the list holds more or less weight than anyone else. I doubt anyone reads or cares about my write-ups even if they do. I don't think I'm an authority on this or anything.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 8:49:17 PM
#237:


v_charon posted...
Why keep this sad moment in a kid's film, ya know? We know he's dead, he fell off a cliff. Pointless interlude!


That's not a pointless scene, it's Simba's reaction to it. It's a major defining point for Simba's character.

Softcore porn isn't a major defining point of a character, it's the material means to the creation of a new character. Plenty movies have taken this similar sort of scene where the girl is falling for the guy, they make out, they start undressing and start moving into the bed, it fades to black. Why? Because they didn't go after softcore porn. Does it change the exact level of romance in the scene? No. It keeps what happened in bed to your own perverted imagination.

scarletspeed7 posted...
Porn is a demeaning term, especially when you volley it. And this is the opposite kind of sex than what you get in porn.


But it directly is softcore porn. And I'm using the demeaning term because that's what the scene is for me. I can forgive a movie like hell, Barbarella for its softcore because it never deviates from being just... that. I literally call the Fifth Element a movie that feels like a porn parody as an effort to show that I forgive the film for its gratuitous nudity, but I don't have to like it. Prior to the softcore porn, Terminator was an action flick, it would go on to be an action flick. It could have been an action flick with romantic qualities, instead of softcore porn to try and tell the story of their love. Yes, knowing that sex happened is integral to the plot of this movie and movies onward, but that doesn't mean we have to see them in the act.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 8:50:15 PM
#238:


WickIebee posted...

That's not a pointless scene, it's Sarah's reaction to it. It's a major defining point of Sarah Connor.

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Lopen
12/01/18 8:51:16 PM
#239:


WickIebee posted...
That's not a pointless scene, it's Simba's reaction to it. It's a major defining point for Simba's character.


Simba's reaction to it can be seen without directly viewing dead Mufasa though.

Edit: oh I didn't mean to directly explain the requoting how unfortunate
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WickIebee
12/01/18 8:51:57 PM
#240:


Yeah, Sarah Connor orgasming is totally integral to her character, it's why she orgasms all the time in Terminator 2.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 8:52:57 PM
#241:


WickIebee posted...
Yeah, Sarah Connor orgasming is totally integral to her character, it's why she orgasms all the time in Terminator 2.

The point is that she DOESN'T. Her character doesn't love again. Her character doesn't find passion again.

WickIebee posted...
Yes, knowing that sex happened is integral to the plot of this movie and movies onward, but that doesn't mean we have to see them in the act.


WickIebee posted...

That's not a pointless scene, it's Sarah's reaction to it. It's a major defining point of Sarah Connor.

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WickIebee
12/01/18 8:53:29 PM
#242:


Lopen posted...
WickIebee posted...
That's not a pointless scene, it's Simba's reaction to it. It's a major defining point for Simba's character.


Simba's reaction to it can be seen without directly viewing dead Mufasa though.

Edit: oh I didn't mean to directly explain the requiring how unfortunate


It cannot because he doesn't understand death at the time. He's poking his father in an effort to wake him up, you can't exactly do that offscreen.
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scarletspeed7
12/01/18 8:54:19 PM
#243:


WickIebee posted...
It cannot because she doesn't understand love at the time.

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Lopen
12/01/18 8:55:45 PM
#244:


WickIebee posted...
He's poking his father in an effort to wake him up, you can't exactly do that offscreen.


That's just a visualization to make the scene more impactful. You don't actually need this to be shown. Mufasa already explained the circle of life to him earlier he knows what death is. That's just him feeling the realization that Mufasa died
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Inviso
12/01/18 9:05:34 PM
#245:


Reese was poking Sarah in an effort to knock her up, you can't exactly do that offscreen.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 9:17:16 PM
#246:


Well, let's see if the next list has something that can help me prove me wrong, it's obviously going to have some sex.
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Inviso
12/01/18 9:20:41 PM
#247:


In a more serious manner, my view on it is this:

The Terminator goes back in time to kill Sarah Connor specifically because she's destined to give birth to John Connor, the man that leads the rebellion against them.

John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to protect Sarah Connor.

Kyle Reese eventually goes through a harrowing experience with Sarah, and through that shared experience, they have sex, with Reese impregnating Sarah with John.

These are the events of the plot. I'm not talking about setting of scene or anything like that. These are just the three major events that set the scene in question. Here is why the actual sex HAD to be shown:

1. If you change the plot so Reese is NOT the father of John Connor, then the story loses a ton of emotional weight. Then you have Sarah getting pregnant via some random guy, which is extremely unsatisfying for the audience. Therefore, you have to leave Reese as the father.

2. If you don't show them having sex at ALL, and Sarah just shows up pregnant at the end of the movie, it feels like a cop-out and the audience is disappointed that the movie threw some random shit in like a Shyamalan plot twist.

3. If you show the aftermath, like maybe Sarah buttoning her shirt, then the sex feels cheap...like it was JUST a quick one and done with no emotional impact whatsoever.

Because of these three things, showing Reese (a traumatized war veteran) and Sarah (the mother of the man who'll save humanity) having sex to create John Connor carries a great deal more emotional weight than any other option would.
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WickIebee
12/01/18 9:27:09 PM
#248:


I think I'm not really countering any of the three with the final reply to Char (since I'm not removing the emotional impact), but the final sentence helps me sit back and understand regardless. Thank you Inviso.
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Lopen
12/01/18 9:34:26 PM
#249:


Yeah Inviso nailed it succinctly with that last part. And in movies there are times when it's necessary to show violence too btw. Arnold punching his hand through the biker's chest I think you lose a lot of the menace The Terminator exudes if you just have him knock the guy out with an implied offscreen death. I don't think Terminator has any real unnecessary sex or violence. Not really. And there are some movies I will say that about don't get me wrong, even if I'm clearly not as squeamish about that kinda stuff
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WickIebee
12/01/18 9:53:12 PM
#250:


Lopen posted...
And in movies there are times when it's necessary to show violence too btw. Arnold punching his hand through the biker's chest I think you lose a lot of the menace The Terminator exudes if you just have him knock the guy out with an implied offscreen death.


Yeah, I wasn't berating that to say it shouldn't exist. I think it's gross, but it's like "oh I'm squeamish, but it's okay." It can impact my rating, but I don't bitch incessantly about it. Like I don't think I was as whiny about Riki-Oh as I can be about language and nudity.
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I'll just go back to gifs. Not like the winner was gonna click my topic.
https://imgur.com/SXyi7uX
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