Board 8 > NHL Discussion Topic 2

Topic List
Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
davidponte
12/03/18 6:56:06 PM
#151:


Apparently being the best player in the world doesn't matter when the rest of your team sucks.
---
Posted using GameFlux
Get it now for Android from Google Play!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/03/18 7:49:16 PM
#152:


Bad GMing will do that to you
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/04/18 9:52:46 PM
#153:


I've watched the Avs 3 times this year, and every time their top line has done jack shit.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/04/18 9:53:16 PM
#154:


My fantasy team wants you to stop watching the Avs.
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/04/18 10:18:41 PM
#155:


Auston Fucking Matthews.
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/04/18 10:19:40 PM
#156:


15 goals in 14 games for Matthews, with another 3 points tonight and the OT winner with 2 seconds left. Seems good.
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/04/18 11:05:15 PM
#157:


I am here for Leafs/Sabres Round 1 in April.
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/04/18 11:56:54 PM
#158:


I wonder if Tom Wilson, after getting blindsided tonight, thought to himself, "Wow, these hits do kinda suck?".
---
Posted using GameFlux
Get it now for Android from Google Play!
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/06/18 2:14:53 PM
#159:


Nylander debuts tonight.
---
GameFlux: Unofficial GameFAQs board browser
... Copied to Clipboard!
TheKnightOfNee
12/07/18 1:03:15 AM
#160:


oh ya go my red wings
---
ONLY FIVE CAN LADDER.
Sushi, kamikaze, fujiyama, nippon-ichi...
... Copied to Clipboard!
TheKnightOfNee
12/07/18 8:03:51 PM
#161:


https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafety/status/1071194354289524736

https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafety/status/1071194558460035074

A couple Calgary players picked up suspensions

Its surprising to see a knee on knee hit get something more, but those are so dangerous, and this one was pretty blatant.
---
ONLY FIVE CAN LADDER.
Sushi, kamikaze, fujiyama, nippon-ichi...
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/08/18 10:17:58 PM
#162:


Aww yeah, Blackhawks in dead last now. The tankoff continues!
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/08/18 10:21:03 PM
#163:


Rough couple of games for the Leafs here.

0-1-1 since Nylander's return. Coincidence? Yes
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/09/18 5:22:44 PM
#164:


Just accepted a trade: Couture to me, DeSmith going the other way.

Goalies are valuable but the way I see it, he was a waiver wire guy for me. I'm currently leading the league (roto) in SV% and GAA and doing horribly on all shooting stats. And eventually Murray will be healthy and not suck (right? otherwise letting Fleury go to Vegas might stand as the stupidest thing of all time?)

I still have Rask, Rantaa, and Brian Elliott on this team, and if I need another spot starter, McElhinney is still unclaimed in this league. And the guy I'm trading to is currently holding 4 mediocre goalies and will almost certainly drop one once the trade goes through.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
TheKnightOfNee
12/10/18 9:03:42 PM
#165:


I'm seeing a game with the LA Kings in it for the first time this year, and I can see why they're losing so much. Lots of plays where people are just out of position, passes to nobody, guys just standing around.

And as I am typing this up, they just pass up the middle to nobody in particular, and Larkin steals the puck for an easy goal.
---
ONLY FIVE CAN LADDER.
Sushi, kamikaze, fujiyama, nippon-ichi...
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/10/18 9:09:49 PM
#166:


It doesn't help that their average age is 45 and their average speed is a third of that.
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/11/18 10:42:09 AM
#167:


That description of the Kings applies to the Blackhawks. Jack Hughes Tank-off!
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/11/18 7:15:19 PM
#168:


davidponte posted...
It doesn't help that their average age is 45 and their average speed is a third of that.


Eh, the whole "they're too old" thing just doesn't fly.

If you wanna look at the core of the Kings, Kopitar is 31, Doughty is 29. If you look at the Blackhawks, Kane and Toews are both 30.

Now I know that seems old in comparison to Matthews or McDavid or whoever, but if you want to look at actual recent cup winners, Crosby is 31 and Malkin is 32. Ovechkin is 33 and Backstrom is 31.

You can win the cup with players over 30.

I don't know exactly what's wrong with LA and Chicago (just think - 4 years ago these teams played in an all-time epic seven game WCF that might as well have been for the cup and now they're the two worst teams in the league) but it's not nearly as simple as "too old."
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/11/18 7:44:54 PM
#169:


Age only really matters when your team lacks any young promising talent, and without doing too much research into either of those teams, that seems to be an issue. The Blackhawks have some promising young players in the pipeline, but the Kings are looking like they're going to be bad for awhile.

I'm hesitant to accept "Crosby + Malkin, Ovi + Backstrom are old, so age doesn't matter" when it's very clear that both of those teams are much more than those two players. I feel like it's also unfair to compare most players in that age range to Crosby and Ovechkin when it's clear they're still a step above. Who are the next best Kings players? 35 year old Kovalchuk? 34 year old Carter? That seems to fit the age narrative.

This was to be expected though. You can only make so many moves to get better in the short term before it catches up to you in the long term. I'd take that any day, though. Give me the last decade of either of those teams and I'll accept years of mediocrity afterwords.
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/12/18 5:53:03 PM
#170:


I'm hesitant to accept "Crosby + Malkin, Ovi + Backstrom are old, so age doesn't matter" when it's very clear that both of those teams are much more than those two players.


I mean sure, but if you keep looking, the other key figures on those teams aren't exactly teenagers either. Holtby and Carlson are late 20s. Kuznetsov is 26, so not old, but not really young either. Letang is over 30, as is Kessel.

My general point is that everyone says "It's a young man's game now! Look at Matthews and Laine and McDavid and MacKinnon and Eichel! They're tearing up the league!" Which is sort of true. But it's worth pointing out that none of those guys have been past the second round.

There's really no particular reason to believe that having a younger-than-average team produces legitimate success, even if it does produce a lot of highlight reel goals.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/12/18 7:01:56 PM
#171:


Isn't 27 supposed to be the prime age in hockey? Kuznetsov at 26 is a perfect example of the argument I'm trying to prove, and somehow you are using that same example to prove your own argument.

Ovechkin and Backstrom are over the age 30 hump when your ability is theoretically beginning to decline, but they are surrounded by players like Kuznetsov entering his prime and Holtby and Carlson who are still in the stages of their career where they are not declining.

Doughty at 29 is still a fantastic player. Kopitar at 31 is still pretty good. Jeff Carter at 34 is not. I think the 5+ year difference between him and those Caps players plays a part.

Your Letang and Kessel comparison works great, as well. They are both over 30 and theoretically have played their best years of hockey. How is Pittsburgh doing this year, compared to the last few years when those players weren't over that hump?

I don't think I ever said "If you aren't under 23 you're old".
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/12/18 10:41:47 PM
#172:


Isn't 27 supposed to be the prime age in hockey? Kuznetsov at 26 is a perfect example of the argument I'm trying to prove, and somehow you are using that same example to prove your own argument.


The problem is, Kuznetsov is basically the only one of the Caps say, Top 5 contributors that's under the "prime" age. Unless you guys are suddenly wiling to concede that Tom Wilson was a major part of why they're good <_<

Ovechkin and Backstrom are over the age 30 hump when your ability is theoretically beginning to decline, but they are surrounded by players like Kuznetsov entering his prime and Holtby and Carlson who are still in the stages of their career where they are not declining.


So who plays this role for the Penguins? Jake Guenztel? Is he really better than say, DeBrincat? Or even Saad? Or Panarin two years ago?

How is Pittsburgh doing this year, compared to the last few years


IIRC they had pretty slow starts in each of their recent cup winning years. You may recall during one of them they were bad enough to get their coach fired midway through the season and rallied to win the cup. Count them out this year at your own risk (especially given how weak the metro is)

My point here is, who is the last young team to win the cup? Did the 2012 Kings count as young? Certainly nobody since them really does.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/12/18 11:26:56 PM
#173:


I think the issue here is that I'm not saying that your team has to be "young" to win, but that being "old", as I would define the Kings, is not a recipe for success even if their two best players, or at least Doughty, are not "old".

But McDavid will tell you that it takes more than one or two players to make a team great.

The Pens have had slow starts, but in each of those years and especially the year you referenced, their core, which is largely the same, had a lot less mileage on them, so I'm not so sure it's going to be as easy for them this time to get back to relevancy.

You keep trying to compare the Pens, and especially the Caps to the two teams I've been referencing and I don't really think they're comparable, even if their top two players are all of a similar age.
---
Posted using GameFlux
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/13/18 9:47:45 AM
#174:


Even when the Blackhawks are hot garbage, they can still beat the Penguins in Chicago.
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/13/18 9:24:07 PM
#175:


We've got an Anti-Leafs going on tonight where they're the one losing big despite dominating their opponent in play and shots.
---
The final Undisputed Champion in UCA history.
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/14/18 7:13:06 PM
#176:


I think the issue here is that I'm not saying that your team has to be "young" to win, but that being "old", as I would define the Kings, is not a recipe for success even if their two best players, or at least Doughty, are not "old".


I guess my point is that there really isn't any metric of "too old" you can come up with that would include the Kings and Blackhawks but NOT include the Caps and Pens.

Even if you assume all players are equally important and go with pure averages...

https://herosports.com/nhl/oldest-youngest-teams-hurricanes-kings-wild-golden-knights-aiai

Kings - 28.7
Blackhawks - 27.9
Capitals - 27.9
Penguins - 28.5

Surprisingly, there really isn't a lot of variance here at all. At a quick glance, it looks like the youngest team comes in at 25.7 and is the dominating dynasty of the... Carolina Hurricanes.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/14/18 8:25:41 PM
#177:


I wouldn't consider average age to be a great indicator of a team at all, even when looking at age, because every team is going to have an outlier or two that either raises or lowers the average even though they aren't really impactful at all.

I would consider the Leafs a young team when Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Reilly are all core plagers and 24 and under, with Tavares being in his prime at 27, but then you've got Marleau, who is nearly 40, and Hainsey in his late 30s bumping up that average. Marleau is a good player but I wouldn't put him at the top of the team's depth chart, and Hainsey is a bad player. Are the Leafs not a young team because of an inflated average age?

The Kings have some young guys on the team, but are they impactful at all? I feel like the average age of a team's 5 most impactful players would be a better indicator of "age", as that is what I'd consider a core.
---
GameFlux: Unofficial GameFAQs board browser
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/14/18 8:30:17 PM
#178:


I feel like our weekly disagreements are the only things keeping this topic going at this point.
---
Brought to you by GameFlux
Free GameFAQs app on Google Play!
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/14/18 8:34:52 PM
#179:


I should also say that I don't think an aging core is the only reason teams like Chicago and LA are bad, but it's a combination of having so much salary committed to that aging core and not enough resources to put meaningful pieces around them that is the issue.
---
Posted using GameFlux
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/14/18 9:21:40 PM
#180:


having so much salary committed to that aging core


That I don't disagree with at all. It's sort of the curse of success. Guys are paid based on their past accomplishments rather than their future expectations. That's definitely true of Chicago. I'm not so sure it's true of LA. Kopitar and Doughty may be slightly overpaid but not much. Quick is I guess, although the term is the bigger issue there.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 3:05:39 PM
#181:


Sabres suspend Berglund for failing to report. This falls in line with something you'd expect from the dumpster fire that was the 2011-2017 Sabres, but not so much the 2018 Sabres.

Maybe he couldn't handle being relevant!
---
Brought to you by GameFlux
Free GameFAQs app on Google Play!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/15/18 6:52:19 PM
#182:


I try to throw in some thoughts regarding the Blackhawks' #LoseforHughes efforts
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 9:07:25 PM
#183:


Your Blackhawks thoughts are well appreciated!

Did you see that Pierre McGuire conversation where someone mentioned that we shouldn't be looking at Hughes as a generational talent similar to Mackinnon, McDavid, and Matthews and that a better comparable would be Hischier?
---
Posted using GameFlux
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/15/18 9:16:11 PM
#184:


MacKinnon was never looked at like those two. Seth Jones was expected to be drafted over him until the last minute, actually.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 9:20:54 PM
#185:


At the time, yeah, but he has grown into that conversation.
---
I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history,
however Advokaiser was the Guru Champion!
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/15/18 9:31:24 PM
#186:


I'm still not sure what to think of any of Colorado's top line players. Which of them are 100% legit and which are just benefiting from playing on a team who stacks its only good players all together?

Who is Joe Thornton and who is Jonathan Cheechoo?
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 9:34:15 PM
#187:


Yeah, I'm not sure I believe Rantanen is as good as his numbers suggest, but this is now the second year where he's doing well and at some point we've got to accept that maybe he's just good.

For now though my fantasy team is enjoying his output.
---
I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history,
however Advokaiser was the Guru Champion!
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 9:37:02 PM
#188:


Man, the Leafs are having an awful December.
---
I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history,
however Advokaiser was the Guru Champion!
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/15/18 9:50:02 PM
#189:


Yeah, I'm not sure I believe Rantanen is as good as his numbers suggest, but this is now the second year where he's doing well and at some point we've got to accept that maybe he's just good.


You can't win deep in the playoffs with only one line.

Imagine what the numbers would look like if the Pens went out there with Crosby Malkin and Kessel all on one line. They won't though, because that's dumb.

Speaking of, are McDavid and Draisaitl still skating together or no?
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 9:52:02 PM
#190:


Oh no of course, a team like Buffalo is in the same situation.

I don't watch the Oilers so I'm not sure what's going on over there. Hitchcock seems to have had some sort of impact though.
---
I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history,
however Advokaiser was the Guru Champion!
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/15/18 9:54:25 PM
#191:


I still maintain the untold story of the Caps finally winning in the playoffs was developing two seriously threatening lines.

Almost entirely due to the emergence of Kuznetsov who could play with Ovechkin (and Wilson of course) and the improvement of Oshie to play with Backstrom.

Name me a recent cup winner who didn't have at least two lines that were really serious threats. Chicago split up Kane and Toews. LA split up Kopitar and Carter. Pittsburgh split up all three of their best offensive players.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/15/18 9:58:43 PM
#192:


If only the Leafs had some defenceman who knew how to play hockey, they'd be in business with three lines that can pose a threat.
---
I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history,
however Advokaiser was the Guru Champion!
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/16/18 11:43:34 AM
#193:


Jesus, that giveaway by Doughty to Pearson was fucking brutal.

If a fourth liner did that, you'd bench him for the rest of the game and send him down to the AHL immediately after...
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/16/18 12:18:03 PM
#194:


davidponte posted...
If only the Leafs had some defenceman who knew how to play hockey, they'd be in business with three lines that can pose a threat.


The Penguins won a cup with their best defenseman in a suit. If you have firepower on the front end, you can make do with an average blueline.

Although from what you're saying, the Leafs apparently have AHL-level dmen.
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
davidponte
12/16/18 12:49:33 PM
#195:


I think Rielly is a legit top 2 defenceman.

After that, you've got Gardiner, Dermott, and Zaitsev who can all be great on any given day but who often make terrible mistakes that make you think they don't know how to play hockey. Of those 3, I believe Dermott has the most room to grow and has the looks of a very good player.

Ozhiganov is new and hasn't looked awful, but the jury is still out there.

Hainsey should never step foot on the ice again and it actively makes me angry to see him.

I'm not sure any of the bottom 5 deserve to be anything other than a third-pairing D man. Again, Dermott has the potential to potentially slot into a top 4.
---
I was the final Undisputed Champion in UCA history,
however Advokaiser was the Guru Champion!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/16/18 7:33:35 PM
#196:


Sure, maybe the Pens did it with a bunch of 2nd pairing guys instead of a bunch of 3rd pairing bums, so not the best of comparisons, but the roadmap is there. Besides, if you keep the puck in the offensive zone most of the time, you won't have to worry about a subpar blueline!
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin
12/16/18 9:56:27 PM
#197:


Goddamn, Lightning/Jets with a game of the year candidate right there.
---
SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - https://imgur.com/W66HUUy
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/16/18 10:29:09 PM
#198:


Aww hell, Crawford has another concussion after he got run over tonight. Just awful. That could be the end of his career.
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/17/18 11:26:20 PM
#199:


Oh, just realized the Flyers have jumped into the #LoseforHughes Tankfest.

That would explain why they fired their coach.
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Dino
12/18/18 2:37:01 PM
#200:


Jokiharju being loaned out to play in the WJC in a blatant tanking move.
---
Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love! ~Homer J. Simpson
... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List
Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6