Board 8 > NHL Discussion Topic 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

Which the Leafs would never do. If they were some small-market team where Nylander could be their best player, sure, but he's like the 4th or 5th best offensive player on the team.

I'm pretty sure the quality of defenceman the Leafs would get back in a trade for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick is much higher than they would get for Nylander straight up.
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It's not impossible, but navigating a Capocalypse will be key. The damn cap punishes you SO hard if you make a mistake.
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So, does everyone have big plans for Nylander Day tomorrow?

If Sportsnet has any sense of decency they'll do a whole 30 minute special, ala The Decision.
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I just want it to be over.
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Honestly, I prefer hearing about William Nylander than Elias Pettersson all the time.
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Stop me if you've heard this before, but Tom Wilson unnecessarily delivered another blindside hit.

He could kill a player on the ice with his bare hands, get suspended for a year, claim that the suspension is overblown, then 8 games later do it again.

Is he incapable of learning? What's the issue?

The hit wasn't even *that* bad, but I don't understand why he continues to do these things.
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davidponte posted...

Stop me if you've heard this before, but Tom Wilson unnecessarily delivered another blindside hit.

He could kill a player on the ice with his bare hands, get suspended for a year, claim that the suspension is overblown, then 8 games later do it again.

Is he incapable of learning? What's the issue?

The hit wasn't even *that* bad, but I don't understand why he continues to do these things.

I hate him as a played but omg hes a fantasy juggernaut so I'll always draft him
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Bullshit call on Wilson. That was shoulder to shoulder. If that's anyone else, it's 2 minutes for interference and everyone immediately forgets about it.
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Maybe he would get called like everyone else if he constantly wasn't trying to end people's careers.

Man, I know you've got the Caps fan bias, but I can't fathom thinking there wasn't anything wrong about that hit. Sure, he didn't hit him in the head, but I don't think there is a place for blindside hits in the NHL regardless of where the point of contact is, and I don't think that's an unreasonable take. Why do guys need to be making hits like that? I'd love to hear an explanation of how that benefits the game.
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Blackhawks supposedly "all-in" on Panarin according to a beat reporter.

I must've missed when he became an All Star defenseman
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Surely that'll fix all of their problems
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Man, I know you've got the Caps fan bias, but I can't fathom thinking there wasn't anything wrong about that hit. Sure, he didn't hit him in the head, but I don't think there is a place for blindside hits in the NHL regardless of where the point of contact is, and I don't think that's an unreasonable take. Why do guys need to be making hits like that? I'd love to hear an explanation of how that benefits the game.

It's not a "good" hit and it doesn't benefit the game in any way.

But there are like 10 plays like this which happen in basically every game. It was a shoulder to shoulder hit on a player who didn't have the puck. That's interference. Lots of players get called for interference without everyone screeching about how they need to be banned from the game for life.
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Maybe he would get called like everyone else if he constantly wasn't trying to end people's careers.

And this is really stupid, tbqh.

I sort of understand the idea that when it comes to DOPS suspension decisions, a player's "past history" is taken into consideration (although the fact that "past history" only counts if they decide to suspend is a little bullshit, Malkin has had like 5 borderline suspension worthy plays in his career, but since they always decide not to suspend him, he isn't considered a repeat offender which is then used as the justification not to suspend him this time either.)

But when it comes to the refs, on the ice... no, just fucking no. There is one set of rules. For all players. You don't call a 2 minute minor a 5 minute major and a game just because Tom Wilson did it. As soon as you start having different rules for different people you become a laughingstock, or, the NBA.
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How many times a game does interference look like that and result in the hit player on the ice the way that Seney was?

Or is that a different kind of "interference"?
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There are not 10 late blindside hits in every game. Yea most other players would have only got 2 min for that hit but Wilson has lost all benefit of the doubt when it comes to sketchy hits like that. If you don't want to get called for all borderline hits then don't be a dirty player, it's as simple as that.
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If you don't want to get called for all borderline hits then don't be a dirty player, it's as simple as that.

He wasn't being a dirty player on that play. He was committing routine interference. If the only way he is allowed to play the game from now on is to never commit any penalty ever then you might as well just ban him for life now, because that's an unrealistic standard that no player could possibly live up to.
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How can you possibly say a blindside hit and interfering with a player because they are going to beat you to the puck are the same thing?

Even if, by definition, those are both considered interference, they are clearly not the same level of interference and should not be treated as such.

I really just want to know if Wilson is an idiot or if he intentionally is trying to hurt people, because those are the only two possible scenarios at this point. Either he doesn't care about the well-being of others and the consequences don't matter to him, or his thought process is "me sorry for hitting man, me not do again. Oh look, there man, me hit him".
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https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1068987803701112832

our long national nightmare is over, eh?
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Nylander has signed a deal according to Dreger, and he did it with literal minutes to spare.
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And yet the NHL has done it before to players like Wilson and will continue to do it. If you play dirty then you will get called for anything and everything with no benefit of doubt that you didn't mean to do it. Don't like it then clean up your game, that normal interference call was completely avoidable by him and didn't need to happen and now maybe next time it won't.
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SmartMuffin posted...

https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1068987803701112832

our long national nightmare is over, eh?

That is a fantastic number, especially considering what the AAV is going to be in years 2-6 where it matters.

I forgive Wilson for being a caveman.
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I really just want to know if Wilson is an idiot or if he intentionally is trying to hurt people

If he was intentionally trying to hurt the dude, he might have, you know, actually hit him in the head, which is the thing he has done previously which is why you hate him in the first place, remember? He might also have hit him a lot harder and squarer rather than just glancing against him on his way by?
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hockeydude15 posted...

And yet the NHL has done it before to players like Wilson and will continue to do it. If you play dirty then you will get called for anything and everything with no benefit of doubt that you didn't mean to do it. Don't like it then clean up your game, that normal interference call was completely avoidable by him and didn't need to happen and now maybe next time it won't.

So, just to be clear, you support having different rules and different enforcement for different players on the ice by the referees, and not just by DOPS in deciding suspensions?

That's a joke. I 100% guarantee the league would never publicly admit to doing this (although it wouldn't surprise me if refs were secretly pressured to do it anyway)
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SmartMuffin posted...

So, just to be clear, you support having different rules and different enforcement for different players on the ice by the referees, and not just by DOPS in deciding suspensions?

That's a joke. I 100% guarantee the league would never publicly admit to doing this (although it wouldn't surprise me if refs were secretly pressured to do it anyway)

Where did I say I supported it? I'm saying how the NHL has dealt with players like Wilson in the past and will most likely continue to do so. If I had my say he would have been suspended for the season for his last hit and a lot longer suspensions in general for repeat offenders since they obviously don't get the point
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SmartMuffin posted...

I really just want to know if Wilson is an idiot or if he intentionally is trying to hurt people

If he was intentionally trying to hurt the dude, he might have, you know, actually hit him in the head, which is the thing he has done previously which is why you hate him in the first place, remember? He might also have hit him a lot harder and squarer rather than just glancing against him on his way by?

Okay. Let's assume that Wilson is a good player because he plays on the edge. I agree with you in that he shouldn't play in a way where he attempts to never get a penalty ever because of his past actions, and should continue to play an aggressive style of game.

In saying all that, what was the point of that hit? Everything I said in the above paragraph doesn't apply. This wasn't a big hit to get the team some energy. This wasn't interference to stop the opposing team from having a good scoring chance, or even as retribution for an earlier hit. This was Wilson seeing a guy in open ice, in which that player passed the puck, and in which Wilson had more than enough time to not touch the guy. This wasn't a borderline late hit. I struggle to stop on skates and I could have moved out of the way with the amount of time that puck had been out. This was Wilson making a dumb, unnecessary play, as usual.

This is a hit that could potentially be made dozens of times a game, but it isn't, because guys know that there is literally no reason to ever make it, but Wilson still decided to make that hit.

Why?
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This was Wilson making a dumb, unnecessary play, as usual.

I don't disagree. As a Caps fan, that's a pointless play. Even if it was properly called as 2-minute minor, I'd be super annoyed at Wilson if the Devils scored on that PP, as should/would Wilson's coaches and teammates.

But not every "unnecessary" hit deserves a 10 game suspension. Even if you're a repeat offender.

If the league wants to change the rules such that any "unnecessary" contact is now a 5-minute major, they should do so transparently and out in the open. But the current system of "some guys get 2 minutes for certain hits, other guys get 5 and a game, and oh we also adjust it based entirely on how long the guy stays down on the ice" is a convoluted mess.

If you want less hitting and more diving in the game, that's how you get less hitting and move diving.
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Alright, this deal isn't as good as I initially thought.

I assumed 6.9 was the number, which would put the AAV at around 6.5 in years 2-6 because of how that stuff works with in-season signings.

Instead, the number is actually 7.5, with an AAV of 6.9 in years 2-6. Still solid, but Dubas caved here much more than I would have liked him too. Nylander's dad essentially got what he wanted.
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davidponte posted...

Alright, this deal isn't as good as I initially thought.

I assumed 6.9 was the number, which would put the AAV at around 6.5 in years 2-6 because of how that stuff works with in-season signings.

Instead, the number is actually 7.5, with an AAV of 6.9 in years 2-6. Still solid, but Dubas caved here much more than I would have liked him too. Nylander's dad essentially got what he wanted.

I'm honestly kind of surprised Nylander would take this at a 6-year term.

If you're going to sign long term then you hold out for what you think you'll be worth in the mid-late years of that term. And if Nylander ends up being as good as people seem to think he will, he'll be a steal at 6.9. I could see him being willing to take 6.9 for 2-3 years so that he could ring the register after that and demand 9+ (assuming he develops well and the cap continues to rise). But this situation is just weird to me.
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SmartMuffin posted...

This was Wilson making a dumb, unnecessary play, as usual.

I don't disagree. As a Caps fan, that's a pointless play. Even if it was properly called as 2-minute minor, I'd be super annoyed at Wilson if the Devils scored on that PP, as should/would Wilson's coaches and teammates.

But not every "unnecessary" hit deserves a 10 game suspension. Even if you're a repeat offender.

If the league wants to change the rules such that any "unnecessary" contact is now a 5-minute major, they should do so transparently and out in the open. But the current system of "some guys get 2 minutes for certain hits, other guys get 5 and a game, and oh we also adjust it based entirely on how long the guy stays down on the ice" is a convoluted mess.

If you want less hitting and more diving in the game, that's how you get less hitting and move diving.

I don't think we ever necessarily disagreed in the first place, then!

My initial post was anger that Wilson continues to be a dumbass, and your initial response was that it was a nothing hit. We both misunderstood the other person.
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And that isn't how the league is, just like how penalties are less common in the playoffs and star players get off easy on infractions. The league isn't going to change because of a dirtbag like Wilson, you don't have to like it but it hasn't started with him and it won't end with him either.
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He's getting an average of 7.5 a year, it's just that the cap hit is 6.9 because of how the numbers work. 7.5 is probably closer to that number that you think he should be valued at.
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Cap hits are all I ever care about/pay attention to.

Anyway, the guys on Sportsnet keep talking like Marner is the single best player in the league and is going to demand 12, so good luck Leafs lol
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The only reason the cap hit is as low as it is is because he's signing on December 1st and that somehow changes things. If he signed this exact contract in September I'm pretty sure the cap hit would be higher, so I'll give credit to Dubas for understanding that the Leafs could wait a couple months to get this done.

Marner is the best playmaker in the league!
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Comon and bring those offer sheets in the summer.
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https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/1068990736668839936

More numbers stuff
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https://twitter.com/kyledubas/status/1068996587064516608
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It's probably not a great idea for teams to let Marner pass the puck to Matthews in the slot on the PP there.
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Blackhawks down 3-0 before five minutes have even elapsed in the game.

I mean, I don't know how the hell you tank when you have three Hall of Fame players and an elite goaltender on your roster, but all credit to the Blackhawks for pulling it off.

EDIT: Ahahaha, and now some idiocy has them on a SEVEN MINUTE PK. And this a Nashville team without Bonino, Forsberg, Arvidsson, Turris or Subban.
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Howard and Rask wanted to fight in Boston during a scrum, and both refs ran in to prevent them. Come on, refs, what are you doing.
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6 years boys.

6 cups I guess
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I didn't think Hawks / Kings round 3 would be in the form of a Lose for Hughes tank-off, but here we are.
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Rangers: Our giving up a 3 goal lead will be the most pathetic thing of the day.
Caps: Hold my beer.
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So in one of my fantasy hockey leagues I'll be 52-4-4 after this week, which is pretty insane. I've never seen domination quite like this in any fantasy league that tracks categories as individual wins.
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Looks like we have our Nylander casualty as Leivo has been traded to the Canucks for an AHL guy. He spent multiple years sitting in the press box then got traded as soon as he was given the opportunity to play.

Long term, I would have liked to see Leivo over Ennis at the bottom of the lineup, but he'll be an RFA and the money needs to go elsewhere.
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David would you rather have Matthew's or McDavid just curious
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McDavid is the best player on the planet and probably will be for the foreseeable future. It's hard to say no to that.
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Matthews is way cooler but coolness doesn't win the games.
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davidponte posted...

McDavid is the best player on the planet and probably will be for the foreseeable future. It's hard to say no to that.

Just testing your unbiased opinion as I know soooo many leaf fans claiming Matthew's is the son of God. I like the guy hes great dont get me wrong but I'd actually keep tavares over him right now honestly
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Give me Matthews over Tavares based on him being like 7 years younger.
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davidponte posted...

Matthews is way cooler but coolness doesn't win the games.

It must, because Matthews is winning a lot more than McDavid is.

(More accurately, non-shitty goaltending wins games)
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