Board 8 > If Ren were listed as "Joker" it'd be unfair to bracket makers

(+) Yeah! (+)

I say this as someone who has picked Claire specifically because he was never indicated he would be listed as that in anyway (and as someone who's bracket is effectively dead so it doesn't matter much for me), but I am thinking of those who picked Claire and still have a chance.

I think some people dug through some code or something and saw that Ren's name was changed to Joker sometime after bracket submission?

It just seems unfair that you list a character one way in the bracket form, and then after everyone has made picks based on that, you change the name, when that very name change would greatly affect the way people vote and the way people make their brackets. Seems like it's pulling a switcheroo. @SBAllen
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I can confirm that if he had been listed as Joker with his Joker picture from Persona, I'd have picked him instead of Claire.

If you make this switch and it sways the match, it will be completely unfair.
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Oh wow joker he didn't look like that in the Batman game but I'll vote for him anyway
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those of us who picked Joker had no clue he'd be using that derpy pic of him and also probably listing him as Ren before we actually convinced him to change it to an actual representation of the character

so it balances out
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not sure if does when a rule is changed after the 'game' starts.Did you actually convince him? why wasn't this announced as a change then since it was pretty significant and why wasn't it done during the bracket-making period? If he meant to change it, thats fine but doing it after bracket lockdown is pretty bad.
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Several of us brought it to SBAllen's attention, so I'm assuming he didn't just change it on a whim.

But this reminds me of 2007 when people complained that using Naked Snake pics for Big Boss wasn't fair because no one knew he was going to use them.
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As someone who took 80 hours to beat Persona 5, I thought that Ren was social link I've missed.
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Yeah very uncool

People made their predictions and Allen had weeks beforehand to change it while the brackets were still being submitted
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XIII_rocks posted...

Yeah very uncool

People made their predictions and Allen had weeks beforehand to change it while the brackets were still being submitted

the thing is that nobody actually knew what Allen was going to do with him or with this contest in general as far as listing names and using pics

we all just made different assumptions
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LeonhartFour posted...

But this reminds me of 2007 when people complained that using Naked Snake pics for Big Boss wasn't fair because no one knew he was going to use them.

but this isn't a case of "no one knew". No one could know what the match pics were going to be. There was never any reason to go off of any info given. Here, info WAS given and then changed later. This is a case of being presented his name in a specific way during bracket creation and then changing it to something else after no one can change it in response.
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He was listed as "Ren Amamiya/Joker" during noms so there was always a chance he would list "Joker" on the poll somewhere.
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LeonhartFour posted...

the thing is that nobody actually knew what Allen was going to do with him or with this contest in general as far as listing names and using pics

I think seeing what name of a character is going to be listed is pretty known knowledge.

What if he changed Link's name to Chmofsky on all polls going forward?
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WiggumFan267 posted...

I think seeing what name of a character is going to be listed is pretty known knowledge.

What if he changed Link's name to Chmofsky on all polls going forward?

then he'd be in the same situation as Joker as being given a name that doesn't appear in the game
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What are these Joker pics? I havent seen them.
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Hook us up with some links
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LeonhartFour posted...

He was listed as "Ren Amamiya/Joker" during noms so there was always a chance he would list "Joker" on the poll somewhere.

Based on this, I assumed he *would* be listed as Joker on the main screen. The name Ren doesn't even appear in game anywhere and is only used in the anime, as far as I'm aware. It wouldn't make sense to use his anime name when this is a gaming character contest.
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I also picked Claire based on the name being listed as Ren.

The only way I can consider it reasonable to change that moving forward is if you want to argue that the name Ren is indisputably incorrect to use, since it doesn't appear in the game. Otherwise it should stick to whatever the bracket said.
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Ren was absolutely the incorrect name to use and I'm bewildered how it was considered in the first place
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Honestly, we should go back and re-run Vivi vs. Investigation Team Leader. I don't know how a name that never appears in the game like "Yu Narukami" was OK when that probably means that nobody who actually played P4 knew who he was. Can we also petition Allen to do that as well?
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FFnut posted...

Honestly, we should go back and re-run Vivi vs. Investigation Team Leader. I don't know how a name that never appears in the game like "Yu Narukami" was OK when that probably means that nobody who actually played P4 knew who he was. Can we also petition Allen to do that as well?

Well, the name "Yu Narukami" has appeared in the Persona 4 spinoff games, so that one's fine.

we should really petition Atlus to give their characters canonical names immediately so we don't have to worry about this with P6
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I hope Ren both has Joker has his name and gets a special match pic change to his Phantom Thief so more people can get livid over a 1 point match.
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I would vote Ren from Ren and Stimpy over Claire
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He was listed as both names on the nomination form so there wasn't really any way to know which would be used, and one name is specifically not even in the game, so it's a fair change. If you happened to meta your way out of a point based on the incorrect name, that seems like a big case of "Oh well."
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LeonhartFour posted...

FFnut posted...

Honestly, we should go back and re-run Vivi vs. Investigation Team Leader. I don't know how a name that never appears in the game like "Yu Narukami" was OK when that probably means that nobody who actually played P4 knew who he was. Can we also petition Allen to do that as well?

Well, the name "Yu Narukami" has appeared in the Persona 4 spinoff games, so that one's fine.

we should really petition Atlus to give their characters canonical names immediately so we don't have to worry about this with P6

Ren has appeared in Dancing Star Night too!
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MZero11 posted...

Ren has appeared in Dancing Star Night too!

Not here.
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I think it would be a lot more unfair if he wasn't listed as Joker.
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ctesjbuvf posted...

I think it would be a lot more unfair if he wasn't listed as Joker.

It would be roughly the equivalent of listing Lightning as just "Claire Farron" and nothing else
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I picked Joker to win based on the assumption that he would be called Joker in his match.
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Except you can play through her games and learn that's her.
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Or FFX Sin as Jecht (lol do I really need to spoiler tag this whatever)

Though thats a little different I'm just trying to cause trouble. But imagine if he were listed as Sin on the bracket page and then changed it once the match showed up without telling anyone.
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well we did have a weird situation with Sin in the Villains Contest where its pic was literally just a fin
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I think it's unfair to list him as anything other than "Joker".

It'd be kind of like having Robo in the contest and calling him R-66Y. Only if R-66Y was never actually mentioned in the game, and was only mentioned in say.. Radical Dreamers.
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I don't see what the problem is. His code name is Joker and that is established in the game. So what gives?
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As someone that doesn't care about the character and has him winning I feel like this is making me objective enough to say it's really unfair
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Nanis23 posted...

As someone that doesn't care about the character and has him winning I feel like this is making me objective enough to say it's really unfair

regardless of which way Allen approached this it's going to be somewhat unfair in either direction so it cancels out
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It's just as unfair to take a character that people nominated as Joker and use the name that isn't even in the game, so yeah
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HashtagSEP posted...

It's just as unfair to take a character that people nominated as Joker and use the name that isn't even in the game, so yeah

unfair to the character, but not unfair to those making the bracket as long as you're supplied with consistent information
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WiggumFan267 posted...

unfair to the character, but not unfair to those making the bracket as long as you're supplied with consistent information

which neither side was
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The question is, which are more important, the fans or the bracket makers?
Considering there is money on the line, I have to stand with the latter

But yeah this is going to be unfair to either side
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Nanis23 posted...

The question is, which are more important, the fans or the bracket makers?
Considering there is money on the line, I have to stand with the latter

But yeah this is going to be unfair to either side

I mean some of us picked Joker thinking it was reasonable to expect "Joker" to be on the poll too
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LeonhartFour posted...

Nanis23 posted...

The question is, which are more important, the fans or the bracket makers?
Considering there is money on the line, I have to stand with the latter

But yeah this is going to be unfair to either side

I mean some of us picked Joker thinking it was reasonable to expect "Joker" to be on the poll too

I think it's far more reasonable for someone to expect the name in the bracket to be the one on the poll than it is for someone to assume the bracket is lying for no reason
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Panthera posted...

I think it's far more reasonable for someone to expect the name in the bracket to be the one on the poll than it is for someone to assume the bracket is lying for no reason

He was listed as "Ren Amamiya/Joker" during nominations.

but there were several things we didn't know about the way the contest would work before it started that might have changed the way some people would have made their picks anyway
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Nominations are different than the actual bracket. It's dumb that he got a name no one knows in the bracket, but once it's there, it should be stuck to. That's the name people may have picked against. I pretty strongly considered doing it specifically because I heard people talking about how even P5 fans will mostly not recognize that name.
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Panthera posted...

Nominations are different than the actual bracket.

But why would you expect "Joker" to be dropped from the name in the poll if it's there during nominations?
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LeonhartFour posted...

we should really petition Atlus to give their characters canonical names immediately so we don't have to worry about this with P6

Like.... Joker?
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foolm0r0n posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

we should really petition Atlus to give their characters canonical names immediately so we don't have to worry about this with P6

Like.... Joker?

or Leader Partner but sure
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So why don't they just list him as Ren/Joker on the poll?
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LeonhartFour posted...

Panthera posted...

Nominations are different than the actual bracket.

But why would you expect "Joker" to be dropped from the name in the poll if it's there during nominations?

I don't know, but people didn't pick anything based on the nomination form, they picked based on what the bracket asked them to pick. No one was asked to decide if "Joker" would win that match
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I cant wait until none of this matters and Joker's natural strength is the same as Narukami's and he just absolutely flops.
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