Poll of the Day > Research Finds Half of Last Jedi Hate Aimed at Director Rian Johnson Came From P

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/study-finds-half-of-last-jedi-online-hate-came-from-trolls.html

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328006677_Weaponizing_the_haters_The_Last_Jedi_and_the_strategic_politicization_of_pop_culture_through_social_media_manipulation?platform=hootsuite
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The industry sure is desperate to defend their critically panned by audience blockbuster movies.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ghostbusters_2016/
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Sounds about right
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It did get a lot of unnecessary hate. But it still was a trash movie, so...
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I highly doubt that. Leaving force awakens, people felt positive and reinvigorated with star wars. Leaving the last jedi I heard nothing but grumbling. It just wasn't a fun movie
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I loved the last Jedi. Probably my third favorite Star Wars movie

Haha no.
Star Wars fans are terrible, deal with it.
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But who is P?
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InfernalFive posted...

It did get a lot of unnecessary hate. But it still was a trash movie, so...

If the movie is trash, why was the hate unnecessary?

It's been explained many times by many people why The Last Jedi is a terrible movie.

But Disney and the critics within the industry ignore all that and accuses everyone who doesn't like it as sexist and/or racist.
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ForteEXE3850 posted...

critically panned by audience

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1975: "I bet we'll have flying cars in the future"

2018: "if you didnt like TLJ, you're a racist, nazi, sexist bigot!"

TigerTycoon posted...

InfernalFive posted...

It did get a lot of unnecessary hate. But it still was a trash movie, so...

If the movie is trash, why was the hate unnecessary?

It's been explained many times by many people why The Last Jedi is a terrible movie.

But Disney and the critics within the industry ignore all that and accuses everyone who doesn't like it as sexist and/or racist.

Not so much the movie as much as the actors. I believe they got death threats if I remember right?
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OhhhJa posted...

1975: "I bet we'll have flying cars in the future"

2018: "if you didnt like TLJ, you're a racist, nazi, sexist bigot!"

How to spot someone who hasn't read the article or paper in 3....2...1
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Umitencho posted...

OhhhJa posted...

1975: "I bet we'll have flying cars in the future"

2018: "if you didnt like TLJ, you're a racist, nazi, sexist bigot!"

How to spot someone who hasn't read the article or paper in 3....2...1

I did dummy. I still think it's a dumbass clickbait article written by people who dont wanna admit the movie was just outright bad

InfernalFive posted...

TigerTycoon posted...

InfernalFive posted...

It did get a lot of unnecessary hate. But it still was a trash movie, so...

If the movie is trash, why was the hate unnecessary?

It's been explained many times by many people why The Last Jedi is a terrible movie.

But Disney and the critics within the industry ignore all that and accuses everyone who doesn't like it as sexist and/or racist.

Not so much the movie as much as the actors. I believe they got death threats if I remember right?

People taking out their hatred of the movie on the actors is stupid, but anybody who is famous has to deal with death threats from idiots.

I'm sure PewDiePie receives death threats on a daily basis, just because many people find him annoying. That's enough of a reason for them.

But the idiots sending death threats doesn't stop The Last Jedi from being terrible.
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Umitencho posted...

OhhhJa posted...

1975: "I bet we'll have flying cars in the future"

2018: "if you didnt like TLJ, you're a racist, nazi, sexist bigot!"

How to spot someone who hasn't read

ftfy
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The article said it was mostly bots and far right political activists pushing an agenda. I fail to see how my post wasn't in line with ridiculing the article's claim. Maybe its TC and mead who cant even read a simple sentence

Let's not forget mead is the guy who claimed that consent was implied in that one rape case

It was a mediocre film but Star Wars is literally the worst fanbase and will never be satisfied.
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the guy literally said something like "I bet there will be a ton of people who walk out of the theatre thinking 'that was the worst movie I've ever seen', and you know, that's exactly the kind of movie I wanted to make; that's exactly the reaction I'm going for."
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With all the backlash and people hating it it still got something like 86% reviews. That smells like fish, not the trolls.

That whole article and the "research paper" just sounds like a bunch or reviewers trying to justify their jobs after it was exposed that their opinions were so far out of the realm of popular culture they can't be trusted.

Look at the box office for Solo and you have all the proof you need that the hate for the modern Star Wars movies is justified.
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it was a weird and dissonant film that a very large amount of die hard Star Wars fans didnt like. calling people trolls because they didnt comform to the mainstream opinion is fucking stupid. I find it very hard to believe that half of all the criticism was just from people trying to troll.

also, TIL that mark hamill is a Russian troll bot.
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DirtBasedSoap posted...

it was a weird and dissonant film that a very large amount of die hard Star Wars fans didnt like. calling people trolls because they didnt comform to the critics opinion is fucking stupid. I find it very hard to believe that half of all the criticism was just from people trying to troll.

also, TIL that mark hamill is a Russian troll bot.

Not only did Russian bots win the election... they also hate TLJ!

People can not comprehend that a surprisingly large number of people are in fact pieces of shit. They tell themselves that Russian bots must be responsible for everything to restore their faith in humanity.
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Zareth posted...

People can not comprehend that a surprisingly large number of people are in fact pieces of shit. They tell themselves that Russian bots must be responsible for everything to restore their faith in humanity.

I honestly think a lot of the people pushing that narrative are the biggest pieces of shit

I enjoyed the movie and even recognizing that some people legitimately thought it was awful (and even though I liked it I acknowledge the movie had some problems, particularly with dialogue and character use) I can certainly believe the article in question. For those calling this damage control, keep in mind that if you remove half of the negative reviews the score on RT would be somewhere around 65-75%; it doesn't instantly turn it into a blockbuster.

Based on nothing but my gut instinct, I figure that's about where the movie probably really does sit. It certainly isn't going to be many people's favourite movie, but most would view it as a reasonably enjoyable popcorn-muncher (and for whatever its missteps, it certainly does not plumb the depths that the prequels reached at their lowest points).

The other thing that certainly pops out to me is that the RT score is 91% for critics and 45% for audience. Yes, critics and the general public don't always line up, but a gap that big is at least somewhat suspicious. I mean, compare that with Ghostbusters' numbers. Ghostbusters was probably the most divisive film in recent memory, and even the skew there isn't nearly as wide (75% for critics and 51% for audience, for a difference of 24% - TLJ is almost double at a 46% gap).
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darkknight109 posted...

The other thing that certainly pops out to me is that the RT score is 91% for critics and 45% for audience. Yes, critics and the general public don't always line up, but a gap that big is at least somewhat suspicious.

I don't know about you, but the suspicion for me falls on the critics, not the audience.

Everywhere you went, you heard people complaining about The Last Jedi. Real life, the internet, everywhere.

But most of the industry critics said the movie was good.
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ForteEXE3850 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

The other thing that certainly pops out to me is that the RT score is 91% for critics and 45% for audience. Yes, critics and the general public don't always line up, but a gap that big is at least somewhat suspicious.

I don't know about you, but the suspicion for me falls on the critics, not the audience.

Everywhere you went, you heard people complaining about The Last Jedi. Real life, the internet, everywhere.

But most of the industry critics said the movie was good.

Yeah it was honestly pretty rare for me to see people talking positively about it on social media. And many of the people speaking positively seemed like they were just doing it to go against the grain

ForteEXE3850 posted...

Everywhere you went, you heard people complaining about The Last Jedi. Real life, the internet, everywhere.

I didn't. Most of my immediate circle of friends and family, which includes about two dozen Star Wars nerds, enjoyed or loved the movie. A couple had pretty mixed feelings about it, and, yes, a couple didn't like it, but I never personally saw the sort of universal derision that people seem to claim exists for this movie.

And that's not my personal bias colouring things either. Because I love the Matrix sequels (the third movie in particular) and I know precisely one other person who shares my opinions on them; most of those same friends I referenced above hate said sequels, so you'll never hear me argue that they're well-liked.

I contrast this with the prequels.Literally no one I know liked those films; some people found either Episode I or Episode III (but, curiously, never both of them) tolerable, but that was about as high as the praise got.

Again, I'm not saying TLJ is universally beloved or anything, but based purely on my own personal experiences I wouldn't doubt what those articles are saying.
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ForteEXE3850 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

The other thing that certainly pops out to me is that the RT score is 91% for critics and 45% for audience. Yes, critics and the general public don't always line up, but a gap that big is at least somewhat suspicious.

I don't know about you, but the suspicion for me falls on the critics, not the audience.

Everywhere you went, you heard people complaining about The Last Jedi. Real life, the internet, everywhere.

But most of the industry critics said the movie was good.

I find it harder to believe the audience score on RT, seeing as the audiences rated the move an "A" on CinemaScore. Now, people on RT can submit their own score whenever they want and CinemaScore polls moviegoers at the theater itself. The Star Wars fanbase is rabid and crazy so it's not out of the realm of possibility for me that they or some other outside force spammed negative audience reviews on RT. I literally didn't hear people talk shit about the movie in public or in my circle of friends. The hate was limited to those die hard fans who I'm just starting to believe were a vocal minority.

For me, I enjoyed the movie. I've only gotten in to the Star Wars movies within the last couple years. It didn't rock my world but it was still a solid, fun movie.
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It's a brilliant strategy, and I applaud its effectiveness used by Sony's Ghostbusters reboot. Make a shitty movie, load it up with females and minorities, then when it gets panned for being shit, blame it on misogynists, racists, or the ever-popular Russian bots, Genius!
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The worst star wars movie ever!
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Zareth posted...

Haha no.
Star Wars fans are terrible, deal with it.

This.

GanglyKhan posted...

Zareth posted...

Haha no.
Star Wars fans are terrible, deal with it.

This.

shitty fans don't suddenly make the product good. you forget about sonic the hedgehog?
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Nade Duck posted...

GanglyKhan posted...

Zareth posted...

Haha no.
Star Wars fans are terrible, deal with it.

This.

shitty fans don't suddenly make the product good. you forget about sonic the hedgehog?

Sonic Mania was pretty good...
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too little too late.
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Nade Duck posted...

too little too late.

Perhaps, but proper studies take time.
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*shrugs*

I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed Solo. I am learning not to listen to the Internet where ... most things are concerned, honestly.
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Research finds that 100% of this claim was concocted by paid PR consultants trying to spin TLJ's negative press by blaming fans in a 100% pathetic move. It's the same shit that we saw with Ghostbusters all over again.

And this is coming from somebody who -- excluding the shitty b-plot about going to casino planet -- liked TLJ.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

The industry sure is desperate to defend their critically panned by audience blockbuster movies.

This so hard. They can't get enough paid influencers to pretend that they like the movie, so they're trying to push social influence another way. Not that I blame Disney for this desperate move, since they invested a shitton of money in SW and at this point they're probably at serious risk of a lot of fans not even seeing the third film in theaters.

Andromicus posted...

It was a mediocre film but Star Wars is literally the worst fanbase and will never be satisfied.

Not even close.

Umitencho posted...

Nade Duck posted...

too little too late.

Perhaps, but proper studies take time.

Given that this is paid spin, they should have had it out faster.
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Nade Duck posted...

too little too late.

Sonic Generations and Sonic Colours were pretty good too...
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*sigh*

TLJ was a mess through and through. It's got nothing to do with politics. Rian Johnson wanted to make his own movie and didn't care that it was the eighth movie in a series. I mean, let's just look at the opening bit. He brought in arguably the WORST designed bomber ships of all time, ignoring the blatantly superior Y-Wing, just so he could have a sci-fi bombing run. Things like anti-fighter turrets that couldn't handle a common fighter type because 'it's too low and fast'... which is like having a fly-swatter with holes big enough for flies to fit through. You could literally poke a narrative hole in it every minute. Worst of all the film seemed to be utterly littered with subversions that served no point other than to subvert.

Like, imagine if someone watched Episode V and decided they could do better... but did so by cutting all the characters and replacing them with interpretive dancers who speak exclusively in swahili and replaced the sets with bright primary colors before topping it off with having the editor huff paint before doing their job. That's... basically TLJ.
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A Y wing wouldn't have been able to destroy the ship like that. For space conflicts they carry proton torpedoes, they wouldn't have been significantly more effective than an X-Wing. They had the bombing equivalent of a Death Star.
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darkknight109 posted...

ForteEXE3850 posted...

Everywhere you went, you heard people complaining about The Last Jedi. Real life, the internet, everywhere.

I didn't. Most of my immediate circle of friends and family, which includes about two dozen Star Wars nerds, enjoyed or loved the movie. A couple had pretty mixed feelings about it, and, yes, a couple didn't like it, but I never personally saw the sort of universal derision that people seem to claim exists for this movie.

And that's not my personal bias colouring things either. Because I love the Matrix sequels (the third movie in particular) and I know precisely one other person who shares my opinions on them; most of those same friends I referenced above hate said sequels, so you'll never hear me argue that they're well-liked.

I contrast this with the prequels.Literally no one I know liked those films; some people found either Episode I or Episode III (but, curiously, never both of them) tolerable, but that was about as high as the praise got.

Again, I'm not saying TLJ is universally beloved or anything, but based purely on my own personal experiences I wouldn't doubt what those articles are saying.

I have yet to meet someone in real life who actually liked it.

darkknight109 posted...

(and for whatever its missteps, it certainly does not plumb the depths that the prequels reached at their lowest points).

It's worse than the prequels dude. At least those were fun at some points.
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Blighboy posted...

A Y wing wouldn't have been able to destroy the ship like that. For space conflicts they carry proton torpedoes, they wouldn't have been significantly more effective than an X-Wing. They had the bombing equivalent of a Death Star.

A Y-wing also doesn't blow up its entire squadron when just one gets hit. Not to mention things like 'having armor/shields' and 'takes only one person to operate'. Plus let's not forget the stupid 'drop bombs in 0-G' bit, lack of proper shielding for keeping the air inside, how the **** ONE BOMBER CAN TAKE OUT A GODDAMNED CAPITOL SHIP WITH ****ING HAND GRENADES NO LESS and just... everything else.

'Poe. I know you just destroyed an entire capitol ship and did so with comparatively minimal losses... BUT YOU'RE FIRED FOR USING OUR SPACE-FIGHTERS TO FIGHT IN SPACE AND HAVING A K/D RATION OF ONLY 1,500 TO 1! Which is why I'm also not going to tell you about my super-secret plans despite having no reason to and doing so both actively hampering the plan and making you suspicious of me!'
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Unbridled9 posted...

'Poe. I know you just destroyed an entire capitol ship and did so with comparatively minimal losses... BUT YOU'RE FIRED FOR USING OUR SPACE-FIGHTERS TO FIGHT IN SPACE AND HAVING A K/D RATION OF ONLY 1,500 TO 1!

The FO had the forces to spare, the resistance didn't.
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Zeus posted...

Unbridled9 posted...

'Poe. I know you just destroyed an entire capitol ship and did so with comparatively minimal losses... BUT YOU'RE FIRED FOR USING OUR SPACE-FIGHTERS TO FIGHT IN SPACE AND HAVING A K/D RATION OF ONLY 1,500 TO 1!

The FO had the forces to spare, the resistance didn't.

Ignoring how stupid them not having forces to spare is... so what? You traded a bunch of crappy bombers which would be useless in a fight and some X-wings... FOR A FUCKING CAPITOL SHIP! It doesn't get much better than that in terms of trades. Plus, let's not forget that, if Poe hadn't made that trade, not only would the resistance taken a lot more damage just escaping, but they would have takes a LOT more in the later fight (removing it's guns and fighters) and had an additional ship trailing them (not that they weren't f'ed anyways).

In military terms it's like trading a bomber wing and some fighters for an enemy aircraft carrier/battleship. That's NOT a bad trade. Pretty much the only way it could be 'bad' is if the imps hadn't spotted them yet (another stupid bit; how the heck the wing got that close without being detected; as well as why the heck the bombers weren't faster) and Poe's stunt had given them away... which wasn't the case.

It's really simple. No matter how you look at it the opening sequence was just a mess of narrative flaws, holes, and bullshit that happened only so that Johnson could have a WWII style bombing run and force things to be where he wanted them to be. Like, imagine if, in Harry Potter, Harry got suddenly hit by a curse that turned him into a midget and transported him into another world and ripped away his magic and the only way to break the curse was to find a magic stone and journey with several dwarves and Dumbledore (Dumbledore checks out of spellcheck but not 'Dwarves'?) hidden away in a mountain guarded by a dragon just because Chris Columbus decided he wanted to tell his version of The Hobbit instead of the next Harry Potter book.
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Unbridled9 posted...

He brought in arguably the WORST designed bomber ships of all time, ignoring the blatantly superior Y-Wing, just so he could have a sci-fi bombing run.

A single Y-wing did not have the punch to bring down a ship this size.

Things like anti-fighter turrets that couldn't handle a common fighter type because 'it's too low and fast'... which is like having a fly-swatter with holes big enough for flies to fit through.

You mean a large, seemingly-invulnerable construct has defence systems designed for large ships rather than starfighters, allowing small, one-man ships to penetrate the outer defences and exploit a vulnerability? And it even has an officer lampshading that by saying something like, for example, "We count 30 rebel ships, but they're so small they're evading our turbolasers?"

Yeah, fuck Rian Johnson! He should learn to follow the rules of the series rather than making up his own stuff.

Not to mention things like 'having armor/shields'

Which didn't seem to help in ANH, where Y-wings were getting one-shotted left and right.

and 'takes only one person to operate'.

You mean like Snowspeeders?

Plus let's not forget the stupid 'drop bombs in 0-G' bit, lack of proper shielding for keeping the air inside,

Both of those are longstanding Star Wars "things" that long predate TLJ.

We see hangar bays open to the hard vacuum of space with things (in this case ships, rather than weapons, but same dif) going in and out of them constantly. Star Wars just kind of assumes there's a magical anti-vacuum shield that keeps all the air in on their ships.

how the **** ONE BOMBER CAN TAKE OUT A GODDAMNED CAPITOL SHIP WITH ****ING HAND GRENADES NO LESS

There are literally fewer movies where this doesn't happen in Star Wars than where it does, and most of the cases are even worse than this. In Episode IV Luke takes out an entire moon-sized Battlestation with just one fighter-bomber, and in Episode VII Poe does the exact same thing to its bigger, badder cousin. In Episode I Anakin blows up a pivotal droid control ship almost by accident while flying a ship mostly designed for self-defence, and in Episode V the Empire's huge walking tanks are literally tripped up by what amounts to flying tow-trucks. Episode VI offers us a two-for-one as a single fighter - not even a bomber, but a fighter - takes out the Empire's flagship while yet-another-Death-Star is destroyed by the ever-reliable X-Wing and its smuggling freighter partner.

I dislike the opening battle because there's no buildup and the pacing is terrible, but don't act like this sort of thing hasn't been done before many, many times in the series.

'Poe. I know you just destroyed an entire capitol ship and did so with comparatively minimal losses... BUT YOU'RE FIRED FOR USING OUR SPACE-FIGHTERS TO FIGHT IN SPACE AND HAVING A K/D RATION OF ONLY 1,500 TO 1! Which is why I'm also not going to tell you about my super-secret plans despite having no reason to and doing so both actively hampering the plan and making you suspicious of me!'

Poe disobeyed direct orders and his actions got a lot of people killed. In addition, he lost roughly half of the Resistance's already limited starfighters, including its entire contingent of bombers. If Poe had done something like that in real life, he wouldn't have been slapped and demoted, he would have been court-martialled, charged with insubordination and dereliction of duty and, depending on how strict the Resistance's code of military justice was, would be facing either a long time in prison or a summary execution.
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Unbridled9 posted...

Ignoring how stupid them not having forces to spare is... so what? You traded a bunch of crappy bombers which would be useless in a fight and some X-wings... FOR A FUCKING CAPITOL SHIP! It doesn't get much better than that in terms of trades. Plus, let's not forget that, if Poe hadn't made that trade, not only would the resistance taken a lot more damage just escaping, but they would have takes a LOT more in the later fight (removing it's guns and fighters) and had an additional ship trailing them (not that they weren't f'ed anyways).

....you lost a sizable portion of your force -- apparently those were the LAST bombers they owned -- to take out a ship that the FO had dozens of. As far as "trades" go, it's Pyrrhic victory; hell, it's arguably even worse because they didn't even "win" following that engagement.

They lost a larger percentage of their force in that failed battle.

Unbridled9 posted...

In military terms it's like trading a bomber wing and some fighters for an enemy aircraft carrier/battleship. That's NOT a bad trade. Pretty much the only way it could be 'bad' is if the imps hadn't spotted them yet (another stupid bit; how the heck the wing got that close without being detected; as well as why the heck the bombers weren't faster) and Poe's stunt had given them away... which wasn't the case.

It's a terrible trade when your only remaining bombers -- ships that could have been used in many other attacks with greater impact -- are sacrificed to take out a ship that the FO has plenty of. This wasn't a Death Star run, this was a far smaller win.
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