Current Events > Bruce Lee exploited Asian stereotypes to make money at the expense of AsAms

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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 11:45:49 AM
#1:


Everything about him today is surrounded in hyperbole and myth. After his death, people idolized the American ACTOR and created this weird Bruce Lee Culture.

They said his kicks were faster than light (they sped up footage and lied later); he had the lower body strength of an average female.

They praised his physique; Bruce Lee was severely underweight and had the cardio of the average couch potato.

They said nobody could beat him in a fight; Bruce Lee's only recorded fight was against a cook, to whom he lost.

They talk about his philosophy; Bruce Lee plagiarized various sources on Kung Fu and created some bullshit college freshman philosophy about Jeet Kune Do (which he only created because other forms of Kung Fu were too hard for him) - then proceeded to not live by those values nor exemplify them on screen

Bruce Lee is the reason why martial arts stereotypes about Asian people exist
He's the reason why people go "WA! HA~~~~YA!" when imitating Asian people doing "karate" (they don't even realize Karate is Japanese, not Chinese, because the distinction is meaningless to them)

I hate Bruce Lee
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Zikten
09/12/18 11:47:05 AM
#2:


Bok_Choi posted...

They said his kicks were faster than light (they sped up footage and lied later);

if someone even believed that, they are an idiot.
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Reis
09/12/18 11:47:47 AM
#3:


without Bruce Lee we wouldnt have gotten kenshiro so in the end it was a fair trade
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s0nicfan
09/12/18 11:49:13 AM
#4:


Wouldn't a better example of this be Carlos Mencia or Ricky Martin? At least Bruce Lee was actually asian.
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Kombucha
09/12/18 11:50:03 AM
#5:


did anyone really not find it obvious when the footage was sped up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0yAYaIiOzo" data-time="

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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 11:50:34 AM
#6:


Please stop trying to diminish the heritage and race of Asians by bringing up other people

We are talking about Asians/Asian Americans right now
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 11:51:55 AM
#7:


Kombucha posted...
did anyone really not find it obvious when the footage was sped up?

The thing is, audiences were duller back then

Also that's not to say Bruce Lee wasn't fast - he just wasn't as fast as the bright screen led people to believe.
If you ask anyone who knows him today, they'll embellish and lie
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Turtlebread
09/12/18 11:52:33 AM
#8:


how many prime mike tysons could bruce lee have taken though?
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Balrog0
09/12/18 11:53:52 AM
#9:


Bok_Choi posted...
Bruce Lee is the reason why martial arts stereotypes about Asian people exist
He's the reason why people go "WA! HA~~~~YA!" when imitating Asian people doing "karate" (they don't even realize Karate is Japanese, not Chinese, because the distinction is meaningless to them)


C'mon now, wuxia was a thing way before Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee isn't even the only one of his contemporaries to successfully transition from eastern to western cinema (Jackie Chan even got his own cartoon)
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#10
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green butter
09/12/18 11:56:22 AM
#11:


what about david carradine in kung fu
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#12
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 11:59:10 AM
#13:


Balrog0 posted...
C'mon now, wuxia was a thing way before Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee isn't even the only one of his contemporaries to successfully transition from eastern to western cinema (Jackie Chan even got his own cartoon)

Bruce Lee is the reason why Jackie Chan will only ever succeed in a martial arts film in the United States

He has many dramatic Chinese releases beyond martial arts movies - and they are GOOD.

Highwind07 posted...
In modern times it has to be Jackie Chan.

Jackie Chan could only succeed doing those things because Bruce Lee set the stereotype and everybody Asian had buck teeth, glasses, were short, and couldn't speak English.
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eston
09/12/18 11:59:52 AM
#14:


green butter posted...
what about david carradine in kung fu

This
Literally wasn't even Asian, lol
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:01:30 PM
#15:


green butter posted...
what about david carradine in kung fu

eston posted...
green butter posted...
what about david carradine in kung fu

This
Literally wasn't even Asian, lol

Asian stereotyping and yellowfacing existed before Bruce Lee

I don't see why that doesn't mean Bruce Lee exploited those stereotypes to make money, and created long-lasting harmful stereotypes about Asians
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Balrog0
09/12/18 12:02:12 PM
#16:


Bok_Choi posted...
Bruce Lee is the reason why Jackie Chan will only ever succeed in a martial arts film in the United States

He has many dramatic Chinese releases beyond martial arts movies - and they are GOOD.


I guess, in the sense that he might be the reason that jackie chan can be successful in western film at all.

The stereotyping of asians in western cinema isn't because of him though.

Bok_Choi posted...
Jackie Chan could only succeed doing those things because Bruce Lee set the stereotype and everybody Asian had buck teeth, glasses, were short, and couldn't speak English.


charlie chan
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#17
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:03:05 PM
#18:


Also I'd never even heard of David Carradine before this topic

Also a quick Wiki peek:

Bruce Lee's involvement
In her memoirs, Bruce Lee's widow, Linda Lee Cadwell, asserts that Lee created the concept for the series, which was then stolen by Warner Bros.[8] There is circumstantial evidence for this in a December 8, 1971 television interview that Bruce Lee gave on The Pierre Berton Show. In the interview, Lee stated that he had developed a concept for a television series called The Warrior, meant to star himself, about a martial artist in the American Old West (the same concept as Kung Fu, which aired the following year), but that he was having trouble pitching it to Warner Brothers and Paramount.

In the interview, Pierre Berton commented, "There's a pretty good chance that you'll get a TV series in the States called 'The Warrior', in it, where you use what, the Martial Arts in Western setting?"

Lee responded, "That was the original idea, ...both of them [Warner and Paramount], I think, they want me to be in a modernized type of a thing, and they think that the Western type of thing is out. Whereas I want to do the Western. Because, you see, how else can you justify all of the punching and kicking and violence, except in the period of the West?"

Later in the interview, Berton asked Lee about "the problems that you face as a Chinese hero in an American series. Have people come up in the industry and said 'well, we don't know how the audience are going to take a non-American'?"

Lee replied, "Well, such question has been raised, in fact, it is being discussed. That is why The Warrior is probably not going to be on." Lee adds, "They think that business-wise it is a risk. I don't blame them. If the situation were reversed, and an American star were to come to Hong Kong, and I was the man with the money, I would have my own concerns as to whether the acceptance would be there."[9]

Whether or not Kung Fu was based on a concept by Lee, he was undoubtedly considered for the starring role, according to Herbie Pilato in his 1993 book The Kung Fu Book of Caine: The Complete Guide to TV's First Mystical Eastern Western (pages 3233), and David Carradine himself in a 1989 interview mentions that Bruce Lee was passed over for the role.

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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:04:06 PM
#19:


Balrog0 posted...
The stereotyping of asians in western cinema isn't because of him though.

I never said it was
Read my OP again

Most people don't remember Charlie Chan or David Carradine anymore. Bruce Lee is the defining figure as the actual Asian man to do it.
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#20
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:06:53 PM
#21:


16-BITTER posted...
Never understood why people get upset at positive stereotypes.

"People who watch movies think all Asian Americans are tough, wise, athletic, and do their own stunts, but that simply isn't true! Many of us are overweight, bitter, and spend our lives posting on video game message boards!"

Some of us lead perfectly functional lives without ever engaging in martial arts; we appreciate being appreciated for qualities other than those you associate with our fucking race. And lets not pretend "DO YOU KNOW KUNG FU" is asking "ARE YOU TOUGH WISE ATHLETIC" because stereotypically Asians are a) not tough, b) seen as book smart not social/street smart, c) non-athletic.

You people think you're so smart bringing up "positive stereotypes" as though suddenly any negative stereotypes about Asians disappear

Same people who don't understand why Black Americans might get offended when you assume they played football or basketball, are musical, or can dance well
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BJ-blazkowics
09/12/18 12:12:13 PM
#22:


s0nicfan posted...
Wouldn't a better example of this be Carlos Mencia or Ricky Martin? At least Bruce Lee was actually asian.


Carlos Mencia and Ricky Martin totally exploited Asian stereotypes at the expense of asian americans!!!
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:13:27 PM
#23:


BJ-blazkowics posted...
s0nicfan posted...
Wouldn't a better example of this be Carlos Mencia or Ricky Martin? At least Bruce Lee was actually asian.


Carlos Mencia and Ricky Martin totally exploited Asian stereotypes at the expense of asian americans!!!

Come on you and I both know that wasn't what he was saying

s0nicfan only posted that because he's incapable of relating, so he brought up something similar
it's not his fault
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Balrog0
09/12/18 12:14:37 PM
#24:


Bok_Choi posted...
Read my OP again


you changed it but yeah okay

he did certainly exploit and popularize those stereotypes
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#25
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:20:19 PM
#26:


16-BITTER posted...
So it's a stereotype to assume you know how to fight, but it's also a stereotype to assume you don't know how to fight.

Anything to let you keep pretending to be persecuted I guess.

Racists aren't known for their logic and reasoning

Maybe like how certain people think black people are not intelligent because of their race, but somehow they're smart enough to play a complex game like football and basketball and do well???????

Turns out not a lot of thought goes into racism. Who knew?
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Balrog0
09/12/18 12:22:46 PM
#27:


Bok_Choi posted...
Maybe like how certain people think black people are not intelligent because of their race, but somehow they're smart enough to play a complex game like football and basketball and do well???????

Turns out not a lot of thought goes into racism. Who knew?


the entire discourse about white players vs black players heavily leans into the idea that black people are naturally (physically) gifted and white people are 'good leaders' who 'work hard' and have 'good fundamentals' so its not exactly spot on
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ClockworkHare
09/12/18 12:24:05 PM
#28:


Reis posted...
without Bruce Lee we wouldnt have gotten kenshiro so in the end it was a fair trade


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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:27:33 PM
#29:


Balrog0 posted...
Bok_Choi posted...
Maybe like how certain people think black people are not intelligent because of their race, but somehow they're smart enough to play a complex game like football and basketball and do well???????

Turns out not a lot of thought goes into racism. Who knew?


the entire discourse about white players vs black players heavily leans into the idea that black people are naturally (physically) gifted and white people are 'good leaders' who 'work hard' and have 'good fundamentals' so its not exactly spot on

okay its not a perfect analogy im being lazy okay
what did you expect from the guy that made this topic
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sLaCkEr408___RJ
09/12/18 12:35:43 PM
#30:


Do we have any sources for the OP
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The Trent
09/12/18 12:40:33 PM
#31:


there's a lot of misinformation in that OP bro
why did you do this
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you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended
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Bok_Choi
09/12/18 12:45:01 PM
#33:


https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/07/us/bruce-lee-myth-vs-reality/index.html

TBQH, just being real here, I honestly made this topic MOSTLY in jest - these things were kinda hinted at and assumed, never confirmed. this article provides a FEW examples that actually line up with what I said - obviously without the negative slant - and confirms my suspicion of Bruce Lee tbh
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BJ-blazkowics
09/12/18 12:47:17 PM
#34:


Bok_Choi posted...
BJ-blazkowics posted...
s0nicfan posted...
Wouldn't a better example of this be Carlos Mencia or Ricky Martin? At least Bruce Lee was actually asian.


Carlos Mencia and Ricky Martin totally exploited Asian stereotypes at the expense of asian americans!!!

Come on you and I both know that wasn't what he was saying

s0nicfan only posted that because he's incapable of relating, so he brought up something similar
it's not his fault


I don't know who Mencia is, but Ricky is actually hispanic too?
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Bok_Choi
09/14/18 3:27:34 AM
#35:


BJ-blazkowics posted...
I don't know who Mencia is, but Ricky is actually hispanic too?

Please stop trying to diminish Asians by constantly bringing others up in comparison
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MorbidFaithless
09/14/18 3:34:34 AM
#36:


Why are you so angry aren't Asian people supposed to be nice all the time??
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Bok_Choi
09/14/18 3:50:50 AM
#37:


casual racism is hilarious indeed
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Ranzoh
09/14/18 5:33:26 AM
#38:


Lol at that video. I didn't notice that the movie I saw was sped up, in fact I don't think it was at all, did someone from youtube edit that video? Yeah, sure, some things you said are true like how he shouldn't be idolized, but some of the things he created wasn't unoriginal. Jeet Kune Do is a fine philosophy to follow even though it's not taken seriously as a real philosophy that should be added to western philosophy. Things from the philosophy though makes some intellectual sense when applied to combat like he non-telegraphic punch, cutting down flowery moves with economy of motion, etc that he tried to apply off-screen. I'm not sure if he meant to exploit Asian kung fu stereotypes, rather he tried to show how cool it can be and not flowery. He popularized MMA, though he wasn't the one that invented it. He was only trying to create a masculine role model for Asians, but the martial art sounds he made was probably excessive that people started mocking it and probably made Asians goofy and taken less seriously as great fighters.

I agree we should depart from martial arts stereotypes but what kind of heroes should we have? I mean you could name a bunch of non-Asian heroes like Batman that knows martial arts but without all the negative stereotypes associated with it. What about Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson? How come they get a free pass? Those guys are professionals and Bruce stressed technique over strength. He worked out doing circuits, which are various workouts you do without stopping for a deep breath, which gave him his physique in the first place. I knew a Korean guy that worked out doing circuits and man I'll tell ya it's only for the strongest or those that have muscle endurance. Let me ask you this, what makes an Asian masculine? Define it for me please. :) If we don't have a great fighter of our own, how will we look strong? Bruce Lee may be a starting point or where we take some of the influence and/or depart from it.
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YourDrunkFather
09/14/18 5:37:36 AM
#39:


Bok_Choi posted...
casual racism is hilarious indeed


Is that why you engage in it so much?
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Bok_Choi
09/14/18 5:40:16 AM
#40:


Ranzoh posted...
I'm not sure if he meant to exploit Asian kung fu stereotypes, rather he tried to show how cool it can be and not flowery.

Intent is meaningless in the face of results

In the end his success was due to his enabling, perpetuation, and exploitation of Asian stereotypes
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Bok_Choi
09/14/18 5:40:47 AM
#41:


YourDrunkFather posted...
Bok_Choi posted...
casual racism is hilarious indeed


Is that why you engage in it so much?

i've never been casually racist in my life
nor racist

i'm the least racist person on CE
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YourDrunkFather
09/14/18 5:53:35 AM
#42:


Bok_Choi posted...
YourDrunkFather posted...
Bok_Choi posted...
casual racism is hilarious indeed


Is that why you engage in it so much?

i've never been casually racist in my life
nor racist

i'm the least racist person on CE


No way you typed that with a straight face
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Bok_Choi
09/14/18 6:08:00 AM
#43:


You're free to prove me wrong
Everything I do is against the name of racism
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MorbidFaithless
09/14/18 12:04:00 PM
#44:


Have you ever not said something with the sarcasm font on
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lifeamovie
09/14/18 12:04:53 PM
#45:


sjws are after bruce lee now
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Nomadic View
09/14/18 12:10:48 PM
#46:


16-BITTER posted...
Never understood why people get upset at positive stereotypes.

"People who watch movies think all Asian Americans are tough, wise, athletic, and do their own stunts, but that simply isn't true! Many of us are overweight, bitter, and spend our lives posting on video game message boards!"



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rikasa
09/14/18 12:13:24 PM
#47:


Interesting take. I never really understood why people seemed to think he was actually a good fighter. It's just acting right?
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Tyranthraxus
09/14/18 12:15:10 PM
#48:


rikasa posted...
Interesting take. I never really understood why people seemed to think he was actually a good fighter. It's just acting right?

He is a good fighter, he's just not Jet Li good.
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SSJGrimReaper
09/14/18 12:15:41 PM
#49:


Bok with a chub vs Prime Bruce Lee
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UnfairRepresent
09/14/18 12:20:10 PM
#50:


Kombucha posted...
did anyone really not find it obvious when the footage was sped up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0yAYaIiOzo" data-time="

It was nice of all those guys to attack one at a time despite surrounding him.

At one point 2 guys jumped side by side at the same time yet in the next frame there was only 1.

How sporting of them
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Bok_Choi
09/14/18 12:36:20 PM
#51:


SSJGrimReaper posted...
Bok with a chub vs Prime Bruce Lee

i'd turn left and win
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