Board 8 > Survivor/BB/TAR Summer Topic 2 - .H@CKER//

(+) Yeah! (+)

Complete with her two idols?
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Have we had a repeat HoH yet?
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Oh fuck off, Tyler.
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I'm not a fan of Sam but I really hope she doesn't go up. L6 proper NEEDS to lose a member this week.
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I'm so glad casting found Sam. Aside from the misogyny of her HoH week, she's a breath of fresh air between the emotionless gamebottery of L6 and the complete idiocy of the Hive.
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Fessy is sooooooo desperate.
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Sam please this talk is giving me the jeebies
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Underleveled posted...

Have we had a repeat HoH yet?

Nope. Currently tied for 2nd amongst all seasons in this stat. Record is 9, were now at 7.
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Peridiam posted...

Underleveled posted...

Have we had a repeat HoH yet?

Nope. Currently tied for 2nd amongst all seasons in this stat. Record is 9, were now at 7.

9 in a row, or 9 overall HoHs?
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Shut. Up. Brett.
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Shut. The. Fuck. Up. Brett.
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I dont care how good they are at the game or how bad the other side is, I'm REALLY sick of L6 getting their way.
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Inviso posted...

Peridiam posted...

Underleveled posted...

Have we had a repeat HoH yet?

Nope. Currently tied for 2nd amongst all seasons in this stat. Record is 9, were now at 7.

9 in a row, or 9 overall HoHs?

In a row.
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Underleveled posted...

I dont care how good they are at the game or how bad the other side is, I'm REALLY sick of L6 getting their way.

As Ive said before, they didnt get their way for 3 straight weeks. Winston-Kaitlyn-Rachel. They just made lemonade out of lemons whereas the other side tripped over each other.

They made shitty situations less shitty but I wouldnt say its the same thing as getting their way.
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Peridiam posted...

Underleveled posted...

I dont care how good they are at the game or how bad the other side is, I'm REALLY sick of L6 getting their way.

As Ive said before, they didnt get their way for 3 straight weeks. Winston-Kaitlyn-Rachel. They just made lemonade out of lemons whereas the other side tripped over each other.

They made shitty situations less shitty but I wouldnt say its the same thing as getting their way.

It's easy to make lemonade when you get a 9-5 numerical advantage by the end of week two and can control which ally you lose if the other side scores an HoH against you.
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Peridiam posted...

Underleveled posted...

I dont care how good they are at the game or how bad the other side is, I'm REALLY sick of L6 getting their way.

As Ive said before, they didnt get their way for 3 straight weeks. Winston-Kaitlyn-Rachel. They just made lemonade out of lemons whereas the other side tripped over each other.

They made shitty situations less shitty but I wouldnt say its the same thing as getting their way.

In all three of those situations they got rid of complete trainwreck players that, while numbers on their side, were long-term liabilities to them. Winston was a hothead who could have caused dissent even within the alliance. Kaitlyn was a flip-flopper and good enough at challenges that she could have still been an asset to FOUTTE. Rachel had breakdown after breakdown and was causing dissent within L6. The four that remain are honestly probably stronger together because of those three eliminations.

Inviso posted...

Peridiam posted...

Underleveled posted...

I dont care how good they are at the game or how bad the other side is, I'm REALLY sick of L6 getting their way.

As Ive said before, they didnt get their way for 3 straight weeks. Winston-Kaitlyn-Rachel. They just made lemonade out of lemons whereas the other side tripped over each other.

They made shitty situations less shitty but I wouldnt say its the same thing as getting their way.

It's easy to make lemonade when you get a 9-5 numerical advantage by the end of week two and can control which ally you lose if the other side scores an HoH against you.

This too.
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I also wouldn't call Kaitlyn "not getting their way" because one of their own put her up.
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Underleveled posted...

I also wouldn't call Kaitlyn "not getting their way" because one of their own put her up.

Yeah, plus they had a choice between obvious enemy Rockstar, and sometimes ally Kaitlin, and it was L6 that eventually decided "yeah, let's get rid of the one we've worked with more".
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Inviso posted...

Peridiam posted...

Underleveled posted...

I dont care how good they are at the game or how bad the other side is, I'm REALLY sick of L6 getting their way.

As Ive said before, they didnt get their way for 3 straight weeks. Winston-Kaitlyn-Rachel. They just made lemonade out of lemons whereas the other side tripped over each other.

They made shitty situations less shitty but I wouldnt say its the same thing as getting their way.

It's easy to make lemonade when you get a 9-5 numerical advantage by the end of week two and can control which ally you lose if the other side scores an HoH against you.

Having to choose which limb to cut off doesn't mean it's a good thing. Winston didn't get his way, Rachel didn't get her way, Tyler didn't get his way when Kaitlyn left.

Underleveled posted...

I also wouldn't call Kaitlyn "not getting their way" because one of their own put her up.

Sam has never been one of their own. She's always been an incidental ancillary player for whomever she likes most. And Tyler did not want Kaitlyn to go that week, let alone have her nominated.

Level 6 did not have the power to decide who went that week. 5 votes were locked in against Kaitlyn - Fessy, Hay, Bay, Scottie, and JC. JC was the main reason Kaitlyn went, because he wasn't budging. This meant the vote was at best 5-5, with Sam evicting Kaitlyn. Tyler pushed to keep Kaitlyn but ultimately recognized it was futile, and they didn't want to expose themselves for the sake of Kaitlyn, so they threw in the towel and made the best with what they had. When JC knew the vote was gonna be a landslide, he threw a hinky vote out unbeknownst to L6. Had they known he was gonna do that, they could've kept Kaitlyn, which they originally intended to do.

L6 hasn't been getting their way for a while, they've just been able to move forward about as strong as an alliance could in spite of taking one L after the other. It comes across as them "winning" when in the big picture they're losing, but doing the best they can to make up for it.
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It also doesn't help that FOUTTE/The Hive are just really bad at the game. They have terrible reads across the board, so much that they can't even trust each other, despite none of them actually going against each other all game (other than Scottie jumping on the majority during the Swaggy vote). It's very weird how NONE of them are good at reading anyone else and they're all on one side of the house, whereas L6 are all capable of executing gameplans to position themselves optimally week to week.

Brett has branched out and made friends with Scottie/Haleigh/Fessy and even Rockstar -- all because of his own doing, partly in accordance with schemes L6 hatched weeks ago. He deserves so much credit for making friends with them -- even Rockstar thinks he's with her side! Same thing with Tyler - he made in-roads with Sam/Scottie, Angela/Kaycee made in-roads with all of the women (until last week, anyway).

From the FOUTTE/Hive side? None of them are proactive, aside from creating the all-girls alliance. They're all reactive, and have bad reads, which means they're getting spun around in circles even when they're getting people out of the house that none of them are working with.

Such strange circumstances this season.

And FWIW, I've wanted Kaycee/Angela to go this week too. I didn't want Kaycee to win the hacker comp, I think it's a terrible twist overall. I'll be disappointed if one of Hay's targets doesn't go on Thursday.
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Underleveled posted...

Didn't think I'd ever see a link to the Sun Chronicle on GameFAQs.

You're welcome.
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I think that Foutte/Hive is below average, but they've been fighting an uphill battle for three reasons since the very beginning of the game:

1. Tyler is just THAT good. The fact that he has been so charming and able to play these people the way he has is unbelievable. If he sided with Foutte over L6, I'm sure L6 would look just as consistently stupid.

2. Sam's power app. A combination of Tyler's gameplay and Sam's power app got Kaitlin to flip out of fear, and once she'd done that, it was easy to keep her hooked to boot Swaggy. If the power apps don't exist, Kaitlin is less likely to illogically flip, and Foutte doesn't lose an automatic number week one. Plus, they're not put on the defensive right away due to the fact that one of their numbers flipped on them. It's a lot easier to be paranoid when the very first vote of the game leaves you blindsided.

3. Swaggy is a jackass. Swaggy put together the Foutte alliance, and i don't know if they necessarily would've bonded together otherwise. His personality was definitely too forceful and alienated the other side of the house (and Kaitlin), which has helped stoke this house divide.

So I think people are too quick to just call Foutte/Hive unbelievably stupid. Yes they've made some terrible moves, individually (Bayleigh revealing her power app, Hayleigh misplaying the SHIT out of the Hacker), but a lot of their stupidity comes from a place of just never having a chance to get their footing. They've yet to have a week where they 100% won out over L6, because L6 has never lost their overwhelming majority. L6, without Tyler running interference, would be fucking dead in the water by now.
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I dont take Brett seriously so I find him funny and not annoying. My wife hates Brett like you guys do though.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I dont take Brett seriously so I find him funny and not annoying. My wife hates Brett like you guys do though.

I would be able to better appreciate Brett if he wasn't SO OBVIOUSLY playing a character. Like, on paper, he's playing a decent game. He's charming and has gotten in good with a bunch of people. But on paper, he hasn't won comps, and he's basically just been a number for L6. Yet after Tyler, Brett is the guy who is the face of that alliance, constantly talking about how much smarter he is than Foutte. It's like...you haven't fucking DONE anything. He's just Nick Uhas all over again.
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While I agree with #2 to an extent, I also think that BB is way too nuanced and way too slow to claim it's largely thanks to Tyler and Sam's app that tanked FOUTTE/The Hive for weeks and weeks. They are just below-average players through and through. Many of them have been onto Tyler since his 'flip' in week 1, but none of them were willing to do anything about it... at all. None of them have been good enough to get to the bottom of it. Hay has been the leading voice but she lacks conviction -- and soon enough she'll be out of allies to back her.

I'm also not sure enough to claim the entire game would be the same had Tyler gone with FOUTTE. I know you are, but I think that's because you want strip credit from L6 (or are just not aware of what they've each been doing to stay ahead). L6 has been very good through and through, and it's not just because of Tyler. All of them have helped each other stay afloat in various ways (kinda like The Brigade).
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Inviso posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

I dont take Brett seriously so I find him funny and not annoying. My wife hates Brett like you guys do though.

I would be able to better appreciate Brett if he wasn't SO OBVIOUSLY playing a character. Like, on paper, he's playing a decent game. He's charming and has gotten in good with a bunch of people. But on paper, he hasn't won comps, and he's basically just been a number for L6. Yet after Tyler, Brett is the guy who is the face of that alliance, constantly talking about how much smarter he is than Foutte. It's like...you haven't fucking DONE anything. He's just Nick Uhas all over again.

As of late I would call Angela the second-face of the alliance. Brett is just a character.

I plan on doing a ranking of all of the S35/TAR30/CBB1/S36/BB20 contestants when this is over and all I will say is that as of this moment, Brett is lucky that I don't believe he alone is actively undermining the quality of this season.
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Brett isn't undermining this season. An alliance that is incapable of defending themselves against a dominant alliance because of their lack of knowledge/ bad game sense is undermining this season and yet despite that this season still has been very exciting because if they had one solid person that actually knew the game on their aside of the house that wasnt a dick (swaggy) they would have done fine!
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Inviso posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

I dont take Brett seriously so I find him funny and not annoying. My wife hates Brett like you guys do though.

I would be able to better appreciate Brett if he wasn't SO OBVIOUSLY playing a character. Like, on paper, he's playing a decent game. He's charming and has gotten in good with a bunch of people. But on paper, he hasn't won comps, and he's basically just been a number for L6. Yet after Tyler, Brett is the guy who is the face of that alliance, constantly talking about how much smarter he is than Foutte. It's like...you haven't fucking DONE anything. He's just Nick Uhas all over again.

Do you really think winning competitions is required to play a good game?

Reading this post, I get red flags. Being charming and actually having that charm form positive bonds with other players, especially in a strategic sense, is doing something. He has been actively playing the game, creating a false narrative that everyone outside of L6 are buying. He's good with everyone through his own active gameplay. He was playing below average out of the gate, but over the past 3 weeks he's been playing VERY well.

You know who else played terribly for their first four weeks, was hated by half the house, and was nominated twice by week 5? Dr. Delicious.
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Underleveled posted...

Inviso posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

I dont take Brett seriously so I find him funny and not annoying. My wife hates Brett like you guys do though.

I would be able to better appreciate Brett if he wasn't SO OBVIOUSLY playing a character. Like, on paper, he's playing a decent game. He's charming and has gotten in good with a bunch of people. But on paper, he hasn't won comps, and he's basically just been a number for L6. Yet after Tyler, Brett is the guy who is the face of that alliance, constantly talking about how much smarter he is than Foutte. It's like...you haven't fucking DONE anything. He's just Nick Uhas all over again.

As of late I would call Angela the second-face of the alliance. Brett is just a character.

I plan on doing a ranking of all of the S35/TAR30/CBB1/S36/BB20 contestants when this is over and all I will say is that as of this moment, Brett is lucky that I don't believe he alone is actively undermining the quality of this season.

While I don't want everyone to have the same opinions on everything, I would say Brett is only improving this season and I'm sorry you and Inviso can't enjoy him with us.
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Also I would argue Brett isn't playing a character, unless you mean in the diary room with the forced confessionals. But I rarely count what gets said in the diary room as a downside. Going back to BB3, people are still giving cookie-cutter bad confessionals (though much less frequently). I'm either neutral or positive on confessionals once I get around how bad they are. My expectations are very low there.

From watching the feeds, Brett is goofy and likes to joke around. He's fairly irreverent. I love irreverence. He's not the norm despite looking the norm. I really don't think he's a bad guy. But then I know neither of you watch the feeds so it's not the same. I'd like to think you'd mind him less if you did, but maybe not.
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Peridiam posted...

Inviso posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

I dont take Brett seriously so I find him funny and not annoying. My wife hates Brett like you guys do though.

I would be able to better appreciate Brett if he wasn't SO OBVIOUSLY playing a character. Like, on paper, he's playing a decent game. He's charming and has gotten in good with a bunch of people. But on paper, he hasn't won comps, and he's basically just been a number for L6. Yet after Tyler, Brett is the guy who is the face of that alliance, constantly talking about how much smarter he is than Foutte. It's like...you haven't fucking DONE anything. He's just Nick Uhas all over again.

Do you really think winning competitions is required to play a good game?

Reading this post, I get red flags. Being charming and actually having that charm form positive bonds with other players, especially in a strategic sense, is doing something. He has been actively playing the game, creating a false narrative that everyone outside of L6 are buying. He's good with everyone through his own active gameplay. He was playing below average out of the gate, but over the past 3 weeks he's been playing VERY well.

You know who else played terribly for their first four weeks, was hated by half the house, and was nominated twice by week 5? Dr. Delicious.

No no no. You misunderstood my annoyance with Brett. I had the same problem with fan favorite Johnny Mac in BB17 (another season I loved). I don't like when the producers decide to highlight a player as a strategic voice because they're good at playing up a specific character in the diary room. Johnny Mac, Nick Uhas, Brian Hart. These are the players who have STUNNINGLY little impact on the events of the actual season, yet get pushed to the forefront for bullshit reasons. I pointed this out back during the Kaitlin boot. What REALLY happened was that Angela/Kaycee, at the time viewing Rockstar's desire for a female winner beneficial to their games, putting their foot down and agreeing to take out Kaitlin. Yet the show painted it as "oh look, Brett and Rockstar have been fighting, but not Rockstar's fate is in Brett's hands, and he decides whether she stays or goes." I just instinctively hate that type of character because they come around time and time again and it's the SAME fucking archetype every season. You never see a woman in that role, because either A. the producers will shove her to the background in order to give screentime to a Brett, and B. the producers are just playing up her cockiness/unawareness specifically because she's getting voted out that very week and they want the audience to experience the catharsis of seeing an overconfident bitch get taken down a peg (see: Bayleigh).
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Also, I think the other thing that bothers me about Brett is that we already have Tyler this season. And when Tyler seems to be the one playing a masterful game (managing to keep himself from being targeted by a volatile alliance that is content with throwing literally every member under the bus whenever possible over Tyler, managing to get his own allies to consider his game above their own), it's annoying to then get Brett's DRs where he's got a similarly cocky dudebro attitude (of a guy who has been in the house majority all season long), with none of the actions to back up his tough talk.
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Right, so... you're annoyed with the editors for defaulting to a male-centric narrative that feels par-for-the-course thanks to someone like Brett existing, and thus you hold against it him even if it's not his fault for that.

Fair enough.

fwiw I have a really low bar for BB episodes, but I also don't hold the edit against the players if I'm watching the feeds. I can't help that with Survivor, obviously. I also enjoy Brett's antics, occasionally in the edit too, in spite of him getting perhaps more credit than he deserved that week.

At least at this point he is playing a better game than both Angela/Kaycee and is doing more work than both of them combined. Next to Tyler he's been playing the best.
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Didnt read the whole convo yet.

While L6 didnt get their way at the beginning of each week, they definitely got their way at the end of them. 4 weeks the other side has been surprised at the outcome. Yes they're incompetent, but that doens't mean L6 didn't get their way.
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GTM posted...

Didnt read the whole convo yet.

While L6 didnt get their way at the beginning of each week, they definitely got their way at the end of them. 4 weeks the other side has been surprised at the outcome. Yes they're incompetent, but that doens't mean L6 didn't get their way.

Yeah, unless you count Kaitlyn, who was working for L6 that week so you shouldn't, none of the FOUTTE HoH's have had their main target go home (and that's probably gonna stay the same).
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Probably unpopularly, I also don't think Haleigh is a bad player. She has good game sense, just very bad reads, and an alliance who can't help her make up for any bad reads. She also has a conscience and that has no place in big brother.

She makes me think of sports players who play below their potential cause of the team around them affecting her play.
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I would say Haleigh is average for a Big Brother player.
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I think Kaycee is underrated. She makes a lot of good relationships and for awhile she was good at staying under the radar.
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Is Faysal the last person left who hasn't been on the block?

Maybe JC? I cant remember...
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There's also JC.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I think Kaycee is underrated. She makes a lot of good relationships and for awhile she was good at staying under the radar.

As a player, i think most people value kc highly
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Post-Veto meeting spoilers below

Haleigh put Kaycee up when Tyler used the Veto on Angela (probably was attempting to get Haleigh to put someone else up). Haleigh is 100% sure that the vote, sans Hacker, will be 5-2 in favor of Rockstar staying. She thinks she has Brett (LOL, what gives you that idea?), Scottie (who just told Tyler he's voting to keep Kaycee), JC (who is a wildcard), Faysal (who won't be voting, per Kaycee), and Sam (who ALSO just told Tyler she's keeping Kaycee).

My goodness, FOUTTE is bad at reading people. Brett's actions make it clear there's no way he'd vote with them and is just making empty promises for backup plans. Scottie defected to Tyler. Brett, Angela, Tyler, Scottie = enough to lynch. Sam and JC will go along with it. With Faysal being hacked out of the vote, it's looking rather unanimous... in the opposite direction Haleigh, Rockstar, and Faysal seem to be thinking. There's going to be another #blindside come Thursday, most likely - but only because these guys are soooo dumb.
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First update on the Jokers homepage is amazing:
Rockstar tells Haleigh and Scottie she will out Angela and Tyler as a showmance during eviction speech. Haleigh says that is a terrible idea and she should work w Brett on a speech

Gosh, where do I even start with this?
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Please forgive this still relative BB newbie.

I JUST realized that Otev is Veto backwards.
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I don't dislike Tyler as a person.

But his DRs are getting SOOO stale.
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Rockstar is an overgrown child.
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Rockstar is an overly-emotional person, I wont deny that, but the bullies are really putting her through the ringer, I cant blame her for breaking.
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Kaycee didnt do anything to her. Rockstar came at her.
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Underleveled posted...

Rockstar is an overly-emotional person, I wont deny that, but the bullies are really putting her through the ringer, I cant blame her for breaking.

What bullying?
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Oh my God Rockstar!!!
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