Poll of the Day > Quick opinion on something

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hey guys, this is something I've been mulling over for a couple days and I'm not sure what direction I want to go in. The game I'm working on has a Torch which counts as an equippable weapon that can burn things. It has a secondary effect of lightning up any darkness areas too, but only when the player equips it as a weapon.

But I thought it might be a cool idea if just having it in your backpack at all would trigger this secondary effect of lighting up dark areas so you could use other weapons to attack with.

Which method would you prefer?

Thanks a lot :)
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If you put a lit torch in your backpack, then your backpack is going to catch on fire.

First option.
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A Torch should be required to be in someone's hand, or in a wall-mounted holder.

If you want a hands-free option for light, it should probably be a light spell of some kind coming out of a ring or a bracelet or necklace or something (or, in a non-fantasy setting, some sort of lantern or glow-stick hanging off the person's belt or a chest harness, or a miner's helmet with a lamp light).

Alternative bonus points for something that can float along behind you as a sort of hovering light.


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Torch lights in backpack. I used to do a bit of videogame stuff myself. My biggest mistake was assuming too much of the player. My testers complained, at first I was a bit arrogant until I was humbled by having trouble testing another person's project. Keep things simple for the majority.

*Edit - I get why people want option 1, I like it too but just remember most players are very casual.
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Aw man this IS a harder decision than I thought!

My old school mentality is what made me make it work like option #1, but during my play testing I'm finding that it's sort of annoying when I want to swap over to another weapon and I lose almost all sight of the room (this is a Metroidvania, so for example the Flail weapon can also break boulders that block your way and some are in dark areas). I did incorporate quick weapon sifting using the shoulder buttons to try and alleviate some of this pain in the ass-ness though.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the torch is negated while the guy is in any standing water as well. Right now with the torch equipped as a weapon it's both dark and you're unable to attack with it at all. If I changed it to work like option #2 the lights would go out but you could still attack with another weapon.
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Flyingpirate posted...

Torch lights in backpack. I used to do a bit of videogame stuff myself. My biggest mistake was assuming too much of the player. My testers complained, at first I was a bit arrogant until I was humbled by having trouble testing another person's project. Keep things simple for the majority.

*Edit - I get why people want option 1, I like it too but just remember most players are very casual.

Yes I feel you here. Option 2 is almost like a QoL addition.

Edit: Thanks everybody for your feedback! When you're doing something like this for such a long time by yourself you tend to lose perspective.
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Over the years I've come to realize that 'realism' needs to take a backseat to gameplay. A good comparison would be Doom 3 where they wanted you to keep switching between the light and the weapon. Obviously this is irritating so people modded the light mounted to the weapon. You get the same effect where you have limited vision but it's so much more playable.

Being that placing a torch in a pack is a bit silly you might equip the player with a small lantern instead. Could be a smaller radius than if you had a torch.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

A Torch should be required to be in someone's hand, or in a wall-mounted holder.

If you want a hands-free option for light, it should probably be a light spell of some kind coming out of a ring or a bracelet or necklace or something (or, in a non-fantasy setting, some sort of lantern or glow-stick hanging off the person's belt or a chest harness, or a miner's helmet with a lamp light).

Alternative bonus points for something that can float along behind you as a sort of hovering light.

This.
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If there's no downside to carrying a torch then it's not a very interesting mechanic. Either make them hold the torch or just make sure your environments are lit well enough to not need their own light source.
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Its gotta be held

Even if there's a place to stick it upright on your pack, you'll always be looking over your shoulder to see if its out or if its close to burning you or your pack etc
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I have a couple weapons that can be upgraded in this already.

What about having the torch act like option 1, but can be upgraded to act like option 2?
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Black_Crusher posted...

I have a couple weapons that can be upgraded in this already.

What about having the torch act like option 1, but can be upgraded to act like option 2?

I like that, make the pack upgradeable with a torch holder. Gives people the option if they want to use the resources to do so, and adds a QoL improvement that feels like a genuine upgrade. If there needs to be a trade-off, maybe placing the torch in your holder could give slightly reduced light while holding it in your hand would provide full radius.

Lantern clipped onto a belt or strap.

Flyingpirate posted...

*Edit - I get why people want option 1, I like it too but just remember most players are very casual.

The casual solution is to ignore light sources entirely and just keep ambient lighting high enough in general for the player to see without having to worry about personal light sources.

Yes, that leads to jokes like people pointing out that someone is apparently going around lighting candles in 2000-year old tombs in games like Skyrim, but it saves having to worry about dynamic lighting or mechanical justification for lighting on the player's end.

If you're catering to a less casual instinct by having light-sources be a physical and manageable presence in-game, you've already sort of implicitly accepted that you're going to have to have an added level of complexity - and like it or not, having an open-flame light source attached to a backpack in any way is inherently unjustifiable narratively.

Again, this is why, if you absolutely want an idiot-proof light source anchored to a point on a character model, you're far better off either going with the magical light stone option, or a clipped-on flashlight or light stick for more modern or tech-based settings. Because those are far more justifiable, and players around the world aren't going to ask how your character isn't constantly setting himself on fire.


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I can't really change it to a lantern because you can already attack things with it as a weapon and burn stuff too.

I mean I guess you can technically smash things upside the head with a lantern too.
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funkyfritter posted...

If there's no downside to carrying a torch then it's not a very interesting mechanic. Either make them hold the torch or just make sure your environments are lit well enough to not need their own light source.

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Not for nothing, but a torch is an impractical light source in the first place >_>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiuHr5YVJBI" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZqbGME5HY" data-time="
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If it could be dual wielded, I can deal with holding it, but I wouldn't want to lose regular weapons unless it was only for rare sections.
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Black_Crusher posted...

I can't really change it to a lantern because you can already attack things with it as a weapon and burn stuff too.

I mean I guess you can technically smash things upside the head with a lantern too.

You could make a new separate item for the lantern which functions similarly to the torch but still works even when not equipped just like in option 2 but overall is a worse weapon and/or gives less light as well.
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I like how I'd be swimming in some cave in Skyrim and find a chest containing a lit torch within it.
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Both. Higher luminosity when equipped.
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JixHedgehog posted...

Its gotta be held

Even if there's a place to stick it upright on your pack, you'll always be looking over your shoulder to see if its out or if its close to burning you or your pack etc

except this is about a video game
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aHappySacka posted...

Black_Crusher posted...

I can't really change it to a lantern because you can already attack things with it as a weapon and burn stuff too.

I mean I guess you can technically smash things upside the head with a lantern too.

You could make a new separate item for the lantern which functions similarly to the torch but still works even when not equipped just like in option 2 but overall is a worse weapon and/or gives less light as well.

That's not a bad idea, but I only have a total of 10 slots for weapons and I wouldn't want two of them to be light source possibilities.
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If you're using it in an Alan Wake sort of way then it should only be active when equipped otherwise attach it to primary weapon and turn it on and off via secondary fire etc.
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DeltaBladeX posted...

If it could be dual wielded, I can deal with holding it, but I wouldn't want to lose regular weapons unless it was only for rare sections.

Oh man Delta! I wish you were around earlier in development, that's a great idea. I don't think I could incorporate dual wielding at this point though.
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Wow, even split.
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I don't know why you would go out of your way to make the torch feel less convenient.
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This may help. Here's the same exact room with normal / non-torch vision vs. when you have it equipped as a weapon:

http://dxfgames.com/DXFTORCH.jpg

Obviously the one on the left is without the torch!
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Black_Crusher posted...

This may help. Here's the same exact room with normal / non-torch vision vs. when you have it equipped as a weapon:

http://dxfgames.com/DXFTORCH.jpg

Obviously the one on the left is without the torch!

I think the bigger question is why is the chest already opened?
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Revelation34 posted...

Black_Crusher posted...

This may help. Here's the same exact room with normal / non-torch vision vs. when you have it equipped as a weapon:

http://dxfgames.com/DXFTORCH.jpg

Obviously the one on the left is without the torch!

I think the bigger question is why is the chest already opened?

I got it before taking the screenshots lol.

This is towards the starting area and I've honestly tested and ran through this area like 1000 times since I started making it and it was just a habit. This is where you get your first weapon, so I always run and grab it before heading off anywhere else.
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Black_Crusher posted...

I got it before taking the screenshots lol.

This is towards the starting area and I've honestly tested and ran through this area like 1000 times since I started making it and it was just a habit. This is where you get your first weapon, so I always run and grab it before heading off anywhere else.

So monsters respawn? Or can you just sneak past them?
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Revelation34 posted...

Black_Crusher posted...

I got it before taking the screenshots lol.

This is towards the starting area and I've honestly tested and ran through this area like 1000 times since I started making it and it was just a habit. This is where you get your first weapon, so I always run and grab it before heading off anywhere else.

So monsters respawn? Or can you just sneak past them?

It acts much like Zelda 1's monsters do. The map is actually pretty large but is broken down in smaller rooms / sections that scroll from one to each other with you. Most but not all of these rooms have enemies that respawn whenever you enter and die whenever you leave. It's the same so far with things you can smash open like pots. Personally I've never handled enemy spawning like this and it was surprisingly challenging to get right but sure enough it works!

To keep players from endlessly grinding off monsters, they (so far) don't reward you with either drops or XP. They're just there to be pains in the ass. You can fight them, avoid them in most cases, or possibly jump over them too. Enemies like archers you can deflect their arrows if you've bought / found the shield and etc, you know stuff like that.
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