Board 8 > Well, Symphony of the Night is pretty fantastic.

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StartTheMachine
06/17/18 11:54:28 PM
#1:


Pretty big Castlevania fan, but somehow I've never played the crown jewel of the series! Found it on sale on the Xbox Store for $5 and couldn't pass it up. So this is my very first playthrough, and this will be a semi-regularly updated playthrough topic.

For some context on my history with Castlevania: I played the GBA ones and Super Castlevania IV, which were all pretty great, but I especially loved the DS Castlevanias. Though it's been many years, DoS > PoR > OoE was how I felt back then, and most people who have played all those still consider SotN better, I think? For me, Dawn of Sorrow was probably my number one game on that system and I have no hesitation in calling it a masterpiece of the Metroidvania genre. I'd be very impressed if this tops it, but honestly, I can already see it doing that.

I'm about two and a half hours in now and recently reached the librarian dude (side note: all the awful voice acting is the best). I bought a basic map of the castle as well as some armor and weapons and some relic that, if I'm understanding it correctly, allows me to get passed those "magically sealed doors" finally. Guess it's time to explore everywhere until I find those doors again -- and eventually come back to the library dude when I get 12,000 gold saved up for the Diamond Plate armor. Hot damn that would double my defense and I sure could use that!

So yeah this game rules. Here's hoping it lives up to its legendary status.
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Metal_DK
06/17/18 11:57:12 PM
#2:


enjoy greatness
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RaidenZeroX
06/17/18 11:57:27 PM
#3:


Its incredible, enjoy!
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Xiahou Shake
06/18/18 12:05:48 AM
#4:


A+++ game, I replayed it not long ago and as soon as I was done I immediately wanted to run through again. It's very, very rare that a game makes me feel like that.
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LOLIAmAnAlt
06/18/18 12:12:08 AM
#5:


Tag.
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 12:18:54 AM
#6:


So what's up with the shiny light blue aura that seems to randomly appear around Alucard every so often? Haven't figured that one out yet.

Also, any dissenters in this topic who don't find Symphony the best Metroidvania Castlevania?
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Corrik
06/18/18 12:22:06 AM
#7:


StartTheMachine posted...
So what's up with the shiny light blue aura that seems to randomly appear around Alucard every so often? Haven't figured that one out yet.

Also, any dissenters in this topic who don't find Symphony the best Metroidvania Castlevania?

Can't remember but I think it is your magic replenishing or something.
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 12:38:18 AM
#8:


Corrik posted...
StartTheMachine posted...
So what's up with the shiny light blue aura that seems to randomly appear around Alucard every so often? Haven't figured that one out yet.

Also, any dissenters in this topic who don't find Symphony the best Metroidvania Castlevania?

Can't remember but I think it is your magic replenishing or something.

Ah yes, that is what it is. I was just only very briefly using the few spells I have but now it makes sense.

Also also since it's been so long that I played any Castlevania games -- is intelligence the power of your magic spells and constitution the power of your sub-weapons? Or is it the other way around?
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Turducken
06/18/18 12:38:26 AM
#9:


When it chirples and the blue glow happens it means your MP recharged to full.
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Epyo
06/18/18 12:41:05 AM
#10:


Yeah that means your magic bar reached its max.

For the metroidvania-style Castlevania games, I feel like about 50% of fans prefer Symphony, and about 50% would choose one of the GBA/DS games as their favorite. People are pretty split about it!

For me, the soundtrack, art, and atmosphere of Symphony are just too good, that's the game I adore the most. But admittedly, the systems and gameplay are not perfectly designed and it makes the difficulty curve not work very well. I think that's the main criticism of Symphony compared to the later games.
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LOLIAmAnAlt
06/18/18 1:09:12 AM
#11:


Epyo posted...
For the metroidvania-style Castlevania games, I feel like about 50% of fans prefer Symphony, and about 50% would choose one of the GBA/DS games as their favorite. People are pretty split about it!

Sound like a pretty solid win for SotN there tho.
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Kenri
06/18/18 1:15:17 AM
#12:


StartTheMachine posted...
For me, Dawn of Sorrow was probably my number one game on that system and I have no hesitation in calling it a masterpiece of the Metroidvania genre. I'd be very impressed if this tops it, but honestly, I can already see it doing that.

SotN is more like DoS than PoR or OoE so this bodes well for your opinion of it!
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 1:41:21 AM
#13:


Epyo posted...
For me, the soundtrack, art, and atmosphere of Symphony are just too good, that's the game I adore the most. But admittedly, the systems and gameplay are not perfectly designed and it makes the difficulty curve not work very well. I think that's the main criticism of Symphony compared to the later games.

This is the most apt description of how I'm feeling so far. Like, the game's mechanics (especially in the menus) can be cumbersome and unintuitive compared to the later games that more streamlined this stuff, but the atmosphere, soundtrack, and art style (which I prioritize among almost everythinv) is enough so far to make me think this will end up being my favorite. An especially impressive feat because Dawn of Sorrow was my first Metroidvania game that wasn't Metroid itself, and thus it holds a very special place in my heart.

Kenri posted...
StartTheMachine posted...
For me, Dawn of Sorrow was probably my number one game on that system and I have no hesitation in calling it a masterpiece of the Metroidvania genre. I'd be very impressed if this tops it, but honestly, I can already see it doing that.

SotN is more like DoS than PoR or OoE so this bodes well for your opinion of it!

I can absolutely tell this already, and it keeps making me more and more excited to continuse delving into this classic.
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GOGZero
06/18/18 2:18:20 AM
#14:


Symphony of the Night is good stuff. Nice to see you're enjoying it so far.

Intelligence stat is affects much damage your Spells and Sub Weapons do.

Constitution stat is for a slight defense boost. It also affects the time on how much the Poison/Curse ailment lasts.
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foolm0r0n
06/18/18 2:45:52 AM
#15:


There was a monotony to that game that made me lose interest in it very quickly. I came back to finish part of it but I never finished it completely. I think it's mostly because of the slow movement compared to Metroid. I was never really excited to get a new power.

It also makes no sense that it is grouped with Metroid as a genre tbh.
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KamikazePotato
06/18/18 4:39:47 AM
#16:


Symphony of the Night has one of the best soundtracks of all time. That game would be worth so much less without the music setting the atmosphere.
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crazygamer999
06/18/18 7:19:59 AM
#17:


^ agreed.
I played it via Dracula X Chronicles, so no bad VA for me, but I do still love the game...even if the difficulty curve cracks really easily if you know what to grab or do.
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NeoElfboy
06/18/18 8:53:49 AM
#18:


I suppose I'm one of your dissenters since I thought Order of Ecclesia was the best, and I'd put Portrait of Ruin, at minimum, above SotN as well. SotN's gameplay is too clunky. But then Castlevania's atmosphere does nothing for me so SotN's supposed advantages there don't really mean anything to me.
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neonreaper
06/18/18 8:53:54 AM
#19:


So good.
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 11:17:03 AM
#20:


Gonna play some more a bit later today and back to the updates! For now a few responses

GOGZero posted...
Symphony of the Night is good stuff. Nice to see you're enjoying it so far.

Intelligence stat is affects much damage your Spells and Sub Weapons do.

Constitution stat is for a slight defense boost. It also affects the time on how much the Poison/Curse ailment lasts.

Ahh, okay, this makes sense. I know the later Castlevanias added a whole bunch of other stats, so it's nice to see they're kept fairly simple here (despite there being nowhere in the game that actually explains what they mean -- but heck, the original probably came with an instruction booklet that did just that!)

foolm0r0n posted...
There was a monotony to that game that made me lose interest in it very quickly. I came back to finish part of it but I never finished it completely. I think it's mostly because of the slow movement compared to Metroid. I was never really excited to get a new power.

It also makes no sense that it is grouped with Metroid as a genre tbh.

foolmo I feel like 90% of your hot takes relate to the speed of the playable character(s). Maybe some developers actually want to design a game around a slightly slower moving character (uhh movement speed in this game is still decently fast)?

the last part i expect more from you and shouldn't bother but

Large, non-linear worlds that require exploration to acquire new abilities, which further allow you to progress to new parts of the map...this is what a Metroidvania game is and you know this. Yes, these games have very different atmospheres (both great but I'll take the isolation of Metroid any day) and plenty of other little distinctions, but mechanically, they are literally so similar that they became their own genre. That doesn't happen by accident!
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foolm0r0n
06/18/18 11:22:43 AM
#21:


Your hot take of my very lukewarm take is bad
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 11:26:40 AM
#22:


foolm0r0n posted...
Your hot take of my very lukewarm take is bad

like literally your entire criticism of the DKCR and Tropical Freeze games were "muh movement speed"

so more aptly, my logical take of your lukewarm take is accurate
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foolm0r0n
06/18/18 11:49:03 AM
#23:


StartTheMachine posted...
like literally your entire criticism of the DKCR and Tropical Freeze games were "muh movement speed"

Wow do I really need to copy/paste my 2 hearts explanation in a god damn castlevania topic

If I complain about real things and your only interpretation is "oh he is just whining about movement speed" that is definitely a personal problem
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 11:52:26 AM
#24:


foolm0r0n posted...
StartTheMachine posted...
like literally your entire criticism of the DKCR and Tropical Freeze games were "muh movement speed"

Wow do I really need to copy/paste my 2 hearts explanation in a god damn castlevania topic

If I complain about real things and your only interpretation is "oh he is just whining about movement speed" that is definitely a personal problem

please don't

I'm guessing you didn't like the lack of a tag team mechanic and each Kong getting an extra heart? I wasn't a fan either and then in like 30 minutes I got used to it and understood why it worked so well.

maybe let others make the games they want and to not always cater to your tastes
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foolm0r0n
06/18/18 12:12:52 PM
#25:


Don't you think it's weird that you have to guess at what my criticism is when 1 post ago you so confidently explained "literally my entire criticism" (and also which I have posted at least a dozen times before)? I can't make you read and understand posts better before exploding into nerd rage bro, that's on you.

I'm glad I was able to distract the rage from poor Neo though
NeoElfboy posted...
SotN's gameplay is too clunky

God DAMN what a scathing review. Absolutely madman posting such words in here.
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 12:35:19 PM
#26:


Please ignore this whole post if you're here for SotN goodness. Didn't expect this to derail so hard but this will be my last post wasted on contrarians.

foolmo are you okay

I don't have a photographic memory that can pinpoint to all your criticisms you posted years ago, and that first point was made mostly in jest anyway 'cause I like ya. There's nothing even wrong with hoping a game caters to your preferences, but expectations shouldn't ever be seen as requirements and therefore indicative of a bad game when they're not met.

However, your whole shtick of being misrepresented here really falls apart at the fact that -- literally -- everything I saw about you in regards to DKCR and Tropical Freeze was you whining about the movement speed. Sorry I missed your supposed more in-depth critiques.

I have no idea what relevance Neo's post has to our discussion and I even totally agree that SotN's gameplay is clunky, especially in the interface and some of its mechanics. I directly quoted and agreed with Epyo who said basically the same thing.

In conclusion, I don't know what you're going on about but please let me get this topic back on track to this great game mmmkay
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foolm0r0n
06/18/18 1:45:53 PM
#27:


StartTheMachine posted...
In conclusion, I don't know what you're going on about but please let me get this topic back on track to this great game mmmkay

Like I said it's all you
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tazzyboyishere
06/18/18 2:35:29 PM
#28:


The first half of the game is pretty good, but it achieves it's status mostly due to it's second half, which is pretty damn amazing. Not gonna spoil it, but I hope you make it there!
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Nanis23
06/18/18 2:54:54 PM
#29:


The thing that bothers me the most about SotN is that there is no doubt it's an amazing game, yet people are so stuck/blinded by nostalgia and just refuse to admit AoS/DoS are the better games
I am glad to hear TC is actually not blinded by nostalgia and likes SotN for what it is, though

It also makes no sense that it is grouped with Metroid as a genre tbh.

I am a big defender of the term Metroidvania
The term itself makes perfect sense - they are very similar and should be considered their own genre

HOWEVER I am also against the idea of people giving this term to every non-linear platformer
Shantae, Arkham games, Megaman ZX are NOT Metroidvania
Axiom Verge and Hollow Knight are Metroidvania
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LOLIAmAnAlt
06/18/18 2:55:44 PM
#30:


Nanis23 posted...
The thing that bothers me the most about SotN is that there is no doubt it's an amazing game, yet people are so stuck/blinded by nostalgia and just refuse to admit AoS/DoS are the better games
I am glad to hear TC is actually not blinded by nostalgia and likes SotN for what it is, though

Not true at all.
"yet people are so stuck/blinded by nostalgia and just refuse to admit AoS/DoS are the better games"
That is a completely bias statement that does not even allow for conversation of differentiating views.
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pjbasis
06/18/18 3:08:56 PM
#31:


Nanis is blinded by shiny new things and blames nostalgia on anyone liking old things.
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#32
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tazzyboyishere
06/18/18 4:27:38 PM
#33:


I played SotN after the Sorrows and liked it way more
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Xiahou Shake
06/18/18 4:35:01 PM
#34:


tazzyboyishere posted...
I played SotN after the Sorrows and liked it way more

I'm in the same boat, actually!

Though I actually liked Aria more than Dawn, which I've noticed doesn't seem to be a super popular opinion. I'm wondering if I should revisit both of the Sorrows at some point and see what I think of them these days. Is anyone else Aria > Dawn, or can some Dawn folks talk up what they think the game does better? I remember Aria quite well but all that sticks with me from Dawn is (unfortunately) the boss sealing, lol.
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KingButz
06/18/18 5:09:33 PM
#35:


DoS will always be my favorite Igavania but SotN is incredible too.
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Epyo
06/18/18 8:02:21 PM
#36:


StartTheMachine posted...
SotN's gameplay is clunky, especially in the interface and some of its mechanics


Funny you should mention the interface, because the pause menu was entirely very early placeholder text and graphics and they always meant to replace it but didn't have time. IGA made a rule after that, no placeholders, anything added to the game has to look at least passable. Or something like that. I remember it from the double fine 2 hour "devs play" interview with IGA about SOTN.

Uggh I think it's time for me to rewatch that interview it was so good
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neonreaper
06/18/18 8:04:26 PM
#37:


Epyo posted...
StartTheMachine posted...
SotN's gameplay is clunky, especially in the interface and some of its mechanics


Funny you should mention the interface, because the pause menu was entirely very early placeholder text and graphics and they always meant to replace it but didn't have time. IGA made a rule after that, no placeholders, anything added to the game has to look at least passable. Or something like that. I remember it from the double fine 2 hour "devs play" interview with IGA about SOTN.

Uggh I think it's time for me to rewatch that interview it was so good


A bug at midnight is a feature in the morning
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Panthera
06/18/18 8:11:40 PM
#38:


It's pretty good
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 8:21:19 PM
#39:


I also played Aria, and I'm in the boat that found that very forgettable compared to DoS. But I played DoS first so it was hard to go back. Aria was still great though.

tazzyboyishere posted...
The first half of the game is pretty good, but it achieves it's status mostly due to it's second half, which is pretty damn amazing. Not gonna spoil it, but I hope you make it there!

Is it the Inverted Castle? Checking the GODDAMN ACHIEVEMENTS list spoiled that for me. Maybe this port came out before secret achievements were a big thing.However, just the name has been spoiled so...even though it seems self-explanatory, I'm sure there's plenty surprises that lie in wait.

Anywho, haven't had a chance to get back into the game yet as I'm having a drinking night with a good friend who is moving, but soon! He might actually not get here for a couple hours, so I'll probably play for a little until then.
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tazzyboyishere
06/18/18 8:32:02 PM
#40:


Yeah, that's what it is.
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StartTheMachine
06/18/18 8:34:17 PM
#41:


tazzyboyishere posted...
Yeah, that's what it is.

:(

I had no idea about it either. I saw that there were achievements like "kill 10 consecutive enemies with magic without getting hit" and thought those sounded like fun so....I stupidly kept reading the achievement list.

fuck whoever ported this game for not using the secret achievement function
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foolm0r0n
06/18/18 9:26:21 PM
#42:


also Alucard is Dracula backwards
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ChaosTonyV4
06/18/18 9:28:37 PM
#43:


foolm0r0n posted...
also Alucard is Dracula backwards


Reported for spoilers.
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Epyo
06/18/18 9:32:21 PM
#44:


To be fair to whoever set up the achievements, it's a really well known twist. It's like, FF7 level.
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Epyo
06/18/18 9:40:49 PM
#45:


oh man, I'm watching the IGA + double fine "devs play" sotn, and IGA's assistant just randomly pointed at some stained glass in the background and knowingly said "stained glass! can't get enough of that in games" and IGA agreed. This video came out just 3 days before the Kickstarter launched, so I bet it was an inside joke I didn't notice the first time.
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StartTheMachine
06/19/18 1:43:43 PM
#46:


Epyo posted...
To be fair to whoever set up the achievements, it's a really well known twist. It's like, FF7 level.

I figured that, which would have made it ever neater for me not knowing! Developers should realize that some people will be playing this for the first time and might not necessarily have had it spoiled yet. No reason to do it themselves! Oh well :(

UPDATE TIME:

Woohoo, just got me that double jump and the castle seems to be opening up a whole lot more. And now I hopefully won't have to do any more of those god awful wolf jumps where you run and time your leap at the last second.

Got a whooole bunch of goodies backtracking through that area. Goodies include the morningstar, a mace that has become my new go to weapon, a magical pendant that helps restore MP faster (even though I almost never use MP so far), and the Ankh of Life that makes one-time food items heal more HP. Good stuff.

Encountered this really weird room in, I think the chapel, where you can sit down in a chair and this ghost lady appears and just starts sobbing over some great ominous music. Yeah, I have no idea what all that was about.

Still trying to save up that 12k for the Diamond Plate. Please tell me there's not a hidden one around the castle somewhere and that this item has to be bought? Bought a couple things, like an iron shield, that I got lucky drops of and now have two of them.

Also picked me up a weapon called a Tyrfing with 0 attack power. Since its description is "a cursed dark sword," I figured it would at least poison enemies or something....but nope! Literally does nothing at all lmao. That's great. Hopefully there's someone I can sell it to, since it seemed like I could only sell jewels to the librarian.

And man, can I just say that this game's soundtrack is nearing like, DKC2 levels of greatness.

STATS:

Level: 18 (8269 EXP)
Time: 3:21
GOLD: 3796

Got not a thing to do today so may be playing this a bunch!
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#47
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StartTheMachine
06/19/18 2:23:11 PM
#48:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Okay I'm a little slow on figuring out little twists and such (it took me forever to figure out 'Miles Prower' in the Sonic games just as a random example), but if you legit didn't know Alucard was Dracula backwards that's a little ridiculous.

Is this to me? Yes I knew Alucard was Dracula backwards lmao. We were talking about the Inverted Castle. Had no idea such a thing existed in this game, but it sounds awesome.

also man fuck this clock tower with all these harpies and medusa heads. these are always hard in Castlevania games but goddamn

Aaaand I think I just pulled off a spell I don't have yet in that clock tower. I was going nuts dodging and I accidentally pulled off a...soul steal!? Is this some kind of secret spell or something? Because man Soul Steal is so OP. Slowly but surely getting used to pulling off the ridiculous button combination required to use it. I'd say I'm at about 25% now!
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StartTheMachine
06/19/18 3:01:50 PM
#49:


So how does experience work in this game exactly? Like for every time you kill an enemy a second time, does the experience gained keep halving or something? That's what it's seeming like to me.
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trdl23
06/19/18 3:05:52 PM
#50:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Miles Prower'

I never even thought about this until you mentioned it, but I think thats more because of my total apathy toward Sonic than my lack of imagination.

... I hope, anyway.
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