Board 8 > Arria plays/reads Umineko blind, Kira cackles at her SPOILERS ARE OKAY #3

(+) Yeah! (+)

A: This game loves fucking with assumptions. A lot. All this time I have made the assumption that Battler didnt do it. Hes the player. Hes our avatar. He CANT be the murderer but what if he is?
A: At the end of ep 1, wasnt it just him and Natsuhi?
K: Natsuhi and all four cousins, I believe.
A: if Natsuhi was the murderer in episode 1, that could be why she was shot. If she was a murderer, one of the kids could have gotten the gun and killed her out of self-defense. Maybe not Battler, but Jessica or George

Their creepy punishment game conversation is creepy and also adorable imo. >_> What? Im a sick fuck
Lambda: What a romantic punishment game!
A: *laughs nervously* Dear god

A: the politics of the witches are hard to follow. I didnt think they would be working together, let alone being lesbians together

Bern gets her creepy face at the end, but Arria missed it lol. I had to replay a video to show her what happened.
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Alright, so then we got to the questions. I asked Popcorn Fairy's long question of "whodunnit"s at the end because it was something I'd planned to do with her anyway and I knew it would take a long time.

~~~

JeffreyRaze: I'm still reading. I'd be curious to see how she thinks magic is defined in Umineko. Though that would be getting way ahead of things in a way so maybe not.

A: Well thats a hell of a question right off the bat. How magic is defined? From the point of view of the science side, anything that cannot be explained. It is the fog of war until we find the answer. From the other side its defined probability. Thats what all the witches are: a screw you to probability and statistics. Its forcing that one-in-a-quadrillion chance happen.

Popcorn Fairy: Favorite Story Arc.

We werent exactly certain what you meant with this. Early on, entire episodes seem to count as arcs, but in episode 4, you have Ange, Maria, and the island arcs so I sorta just rephrased it to what are some of your favorite moments?
A: I like any time Battler drinks the kool-aid and has hallucinations. Does that count?

Favorite murder.
A: Oooh. I think Krauss getting juiced repeatedly in the ep 2 tea party is my favorite, but I dont think thats what youre referring to. I have a fondness of the very first murder in the garden shed because that was such a backhand from Ryukishi. Up until that point you think its going to be a lighthearted mystery, and then he says no bitch its not! Its so dark and creepy. It sets the mood well.
K: And thats when Goldenslaughter plays for the first time
A: *nods* True! I do love that song
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That works. I guess I could have phrased that as favorite episode.

I'm disappointed. The Halloween Party should be the favorite murder.

I'll ask her that next time lol. And for what it's worth, the Halloween Party is my favorite murder! I sorta expected that answer from her, too. The way she described her reaction to the first murder, I didn't realize she expected Umineko to be so... nice? Pretty? Not-grim? I dunno, but I went into Umineko expecting fucked up shit. And Arria has watched some of the gory parts of Higruashi, so I know it wasn't that we had different preconceived notions of Ryukishi's work.
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Favorite character.
A: Natsuhi was at the top of the list at first, but shes been knocked down since we havent see her for any length of time. I REALLY like Kyrie right now because shes fucking gorgeous. She also has one of the best cutscenes (the one in ep 3 where shes pointing the gun at Leviathan and looks like shes about to become a demon). And I really want to know what the fuck happened with her and Asumu? Because SOMETHING had to happen for Beatrice to all of a sudden care so much about Battlers parentage.
K: And to clarify, I told you that our Battler came out of Kyrie. But I never said what happened afterward. Also keep in mind that another Ushiromiya Battler came out of Asumu, because they were able to state that in red. (internally: Im trying to set up my trap to make her think Battler could be the man from 19 years ago once we read ep 5)
A:I also like that Kyrie in the first episode is sorta the one to teach you about wacky shenanigan chessboard thought process. Shes the one who gives you a tutorial on how to play with Beatrice.

Where does she think that the story is gonna go next?
A: I think its gonna focus more on the Metaverse and the shenanigans there. Theres been a gradual leaning in that direction for a while. I think that trend will continue. I think theyre going to discuss whatever Battlers sin is. I also feel like the answer arc is going to be either significantly easier because now (excitedly): we know how to play the game! Or.. theyre going to be significantly harder because (darkly): we know how to play the game. Thus the rules are gonna change.
K; How do you think the rules might change?
A: I think they might add more bananas-ass debate techniques. The yes, that theory works, but now we have this which completely overrides that!
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Is she ready to invest in Krauss's upcoming moon hotels?

K: I think this is something mentioned in episode 5, Im not sure.
A: *gives weird look* I dont think that joke has been brought up. Also: wat. That is my response to the idea of Krauss's moon hotels: just what?

Would she let Rosa baby sit her children?

A: Depends on how angry I am at the children. Brutus, no. Actual two-legged children, maybe.

Best girl?

K: Probably Kyrie, right?
A: If we take Kyrie out of the running *thinks for a LONG time*
K: Umineko has a lot of great female characters
A: Thats the problem Im having!
A: How do you expect me to select just one? Throw at the mental dart board?
K; Sounds like how the sacrifices are chosen
A: Oh good goat this is cheating, but Ill say the Seven Stakes of Purgatory. Mostly because I cant choose otherwise.
K: That reminds me, we never did read the Stakes Valentines Day. Thats something we should do
A: Indeed!

Best boy?

A: Nanjo. Nanjo is the best boy because hes a good little walrus!
K: Haha. Thinking about it serious for a second though, who would your favorite overall male character be?
A: Well not Mr. Corpse Party. I think theres a tie. Theres Rudolf because he makes me laugh and hes also smart enough to let Kyrie do his thinking. And Hideyoshi because hes a freaking sweetheart. Like, he really doesnt deserve any of the shit that happens to him in this series. He may have made some bad financial decisions, but who hasnt? And again, he lets his wife do the thinking. Although that may not always be good because Eva is bugnuts
K: you might be the only person Ive seen call Hideyoshi a favorite male character.
A: Hes what a male should be. Supportive and loving.
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The joke is that Krauss is really bad with money and would try to start something stupid like moon hotels.

Yeah, it doesn't translate well over internet/text, but Arria's "what" wasn't confusion, it was more like "excuse me, but what the FUCK did you just say?" Her reaction was that Krauss is a massive moron.
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Also. I salute her choices in Best Boy. Rudolf is such a great character. He's such an ass, but he's just so lovable. You just cannot hate the guy. And hey, Hideyoshi is a bro. He's a legit good dude. Except in that one where he was Eva's accomplice.

The Seven Stakes are cheating, that's 7. At least pick one. coughcoughSatancoughcough.

I'll let her know that you like her choices lol. I think my favorite male character would be Ronove. I love the demon butler archtype (so does she, but I guess she just like Rudolf and Hideyoshi THAT much more)

I'm gonna guess her favorite stake is Beelzebub, but I'll ask her next time we hang out since I'm planning on having her do another ranking or various things.

~~~

Popcorn Fairy: Tell her that the game has given her all the necessary information to solve it, so I wanna "Whodunnit?" thrown at her for every episode. Episode 1, whodunnit? Episode 2, whodunnit? Episode 3, whodunnit? Episode 4 whodunnit? And if she says she doesn't know or can't answer, tell her to make an assessment.

A: For episode 1, I like the idea that Natsuhi was shot by one of the kids.
A: We know Eva was partially responsible for Ep 3 with some help from Hideyoshi. I dont know about Ep1. Mostly I have ideas for specific things, not overarching ideas.
K: great! Thats what we should discuss
I had typed up some brief summaries of the murders and mysteries up to this point as well as the red truth associated with them. The summaries are 100% from the perspective we readers are given, but I do specify where Battler is in each scenario.

First I had Arria read my summaries for Episode 1

A: Ive always had the idea that the cousins are innocent. I dont know if that's nave or not.
K: Could be. I think George and Jessica could be murderers. They could be talked into wanting to kill for their inheritance. Maria could probably be talked into committing a murder because she thinks its a cute witch-game or something.
A: *snort* I just imagined all her Uu uu, were going to the Golden Land! stuff is because she watched Rosa set the timer to the bomb and she knows everyone is going to the Golden Land when the island blows up.

*reads 1st twilight notes*
A: I am really suspecting either Eva and Hideyoshi again or Natsuhi. If Eva and Hideyoshi, its probably due to inheritance related bullshit and the two servants were killed either because they saw something they werent supposed to or to push the blame on someone else later. Oh, and Eva hates the maid trying to steal her son away. If Natsuhi fuck, what would her reasoning be? I cant imagine shed want to kill her husband. This was the episode where we saw Natsuhi talk to Kinzo, right?
K: Right.
A: And where Krauss shows her a bar of gold?
K: yes.
A: Humm. I dont yet know her full reasoning, but I think she could have done it.
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A: *snort* I just imagined all her Uu uu, were going to the Golden Land! stuff is because she watched Rosa set the timer to the bomb and she knows everyone is going to the Golden Land when the island blows up.

Wait, when did she figure out the bomb thing? Did I miss that?
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*checks* nope, you didn't miss anything. I did lol. I apparently forgot to post that part. Well, that'll be tomorrow's update, since I'm trying to drag this out since I'm not sure the next time I'll see Arria. I promise I didn't give her the answer. It was a solid 20 minutes of her thinking about the riddle (with most of that time dedicated to her thinking it was related to the typhoon)

Edit: and by tomorrow, I may mean the day after since I won't be home tomorrow. I'll give the topic a bump to make sure it doesn't purge, though.
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bump

got no time to update today
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Holy shit this part was so big I have to post it in two posts. >_> Anyway, this is me backtracking. I initially put this is another Word doc which is spoiler-free for Arria. I forgot to move it over and then forgot to post it when it would have been appropriate to do so! This is her figuring out the bomb mystery

(I told her I would find the exact wording of the riddle)

Ushiromiya Battler, I will now kill you. And right now, there is no one other than you on this island. The only one on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and am about to kill you. Who am I?
Battler: And then my piece left the game board.

K: I added Battlers last line intentionally. His piece is leaving the game board right now.
A: As opposed to a week from now when he dies of starvation because his dumb ass cant fend for itself on a deserted island?
K: Exactly.
A: Is it the typhoon?
K: How so? How did it kill him?
A: Maybe he got smacked in the head by a flying plank? Or maybe there was a landslide?
K: Keep thinking about it while I use the restroom
(few minutes later)
A: It has to be something about the weather, the storm, a landslide, and earthquake. They have lots of earthquakes in Japan! Although weve been told about a typhoon, not an earthquake, so that is significantly lower on my likelihood scale.
K: How about this. Think about when Ange arrived on the island. What happened?
A: She stopped in front of a cliff and that was that
K: Where was the cliff?
A: I assumed it was the cliff where the Beatrice who met Rosa died however-many-years ago.
K: Okay. Umm I think its safe to say Ange tried to get as close as she could to the mansion
A: Alright
*few minutes later*
A: So it was a landslide.
K *facepalms internally* (She really likes this landslide idea)
A: Maybe the typhoon made the ground weaker and it caved in? Oh! The tunnels underneath the mansion! Or wherever Gaaps portals led to. Maybe Battler fell into one of those?
K: What did he fall into?
A: A pitfall? A trap? Whatever Kyrie and the others fell into or found or whatever the fuck happened to them.
K: Hmm do you think a pitfall would be enough to stop Ange? Do you think shed describe it as a
cliff?
A: Alright, the typhoon weakened the ground and it sunk into the tunnels.
K: (Im not even sure how to help her out anymore. Ill just let her think for a bit)
*few minutes later*
K: Youre kinda on the right track, in some ways. And Im having a really hard time helping you without yknow helping you.
A: You love to see me suffer. You keep saying that you want to see me smack my head against a wall in Ep 6. Well Ep 4 is doing a pretty good job of it, too!
K: *cackles*
*little bit later*
K: I think youre too preoccupied with the typhoon. Try to think of other solutions that dont rely on the storm.
A: Aww fuck
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*later*
A: Am I at least on the right track in thinking about the tunnels? Like somehow the island caved into the tunnels and caused a cliff to appear?
K: Yes. Keep going on that train of thought.
A: There was some kind of explosion?
K: Okay. Keep going.
A: A *shakes head* a gun went off and weakened the supports and it caved in? Thats it! Beatrice is one of the Chiesters!
K: *laughs* Okay, I didnt expect you to take it there.
A: Is the train still on its tracks?
K: Uhh I think its multi-track drifting at this point. Go back to what you said about explosion. Just say the most obvious thing.
A: *hesitates*
K: Say the B-word (really expected her to say something smart-ass here. Or at least Beatrice lol)
A: Bomb
K: There ya go!
A: Theres a BOMB on the island?
K: Yes (I was really tempted to make a bomb in the lasagna joke here but Im not sure she would have gotten it and it may have confused her into thinking Gohda actually put a bomb in lasagna).
A: Holy shit. Who knows about this? Dont actually answer that. Im thinking out loud.
K: Of course. Well, I can tell you one person who found out about it. Maybe didnt know about it initially and thats Eva. Why did she survive? Because she knew where she could hide from the bomb.
A: Oh my god, it makes sense.
K: And remember how in episode 1 they said all they found were scattered bones and they only identified Maria by her jaw bone?
A: She got fucked up in a bomb explosion. Holy cats, I feel dumb.
K: I actually thought you were going to figure it out a long time ago. There was a line in Ep 4s future-world about how they recovered some stuff from Kuwadorian and it was a damn shame they didnt get any of Kinzos books. You said something about how theyd have been thrilled to find a library of that quality. But instead of thinking why you just accepted it as-is.
A: Fuck me
K: To be fair, I did the same thing. As did most readers. Most of us are guilty of that.
A: Glad Im not alone!
---

*reads 2nd twilight notes*
A: Okay. So if Eva and Hideyoshi were the murderers of the first twilight, then this is Natsuhis revenge. Kill my husband, you whore? Then Ill kill yours! And then you!
A: The magic circles are probably Maria playing around and not realizing that shes being creepy.

A: And then they find Kinzo in the boiler. Hes been dead for ages. Nothing mysterious here, folks. The Scooby Gang can go home!

A: Kanons death *she reads this one for a good long while*
A: The red truth says he wasnt killed in an accident but is a trap an accident? If you intentionally set a trap with the intent to kill someone, thats not an accident!
K: Alright. Sounds good.
A: Ive suspected for a while that Nanjo is being paid off. If he were being paid by Eva, then his payment stopped as soon as she died. So maybe Natsuhi is paying him? So all this stuff about him trying to help Kanon could be a load of crap and he killed him through I dunno negligence? Like, Kanon stepped on a trap meant to kill him, and then Nanjo did something to make sure he continued to die?
*she went on to the next twilight, read it for a bit, then came back to Kanon*
A: Im an idiot.
K: How so?
A: The red says this: no human on the island could have killed Kanon. Kanon did not commit suicide. Kanon did not die in an accident. The logical conclusion is obvious: Kanon didnt die. At all.
K: Okay. Then what?
A: That leaves him available to commit the remaining murders! But why why would he kill the others?
(She scrolls up to the above murders. She spends a decent amount of time trying to figure it out)
K: What do we know about Kanon?
A: Hes an orphan who was adopted by the Ushiromiya family along with his sister. Hes in love with Jessica. Hes a coat rack.
K: Alright.
A: Maybe after Shannon was killed, he was worried Jessica would be next? Maybe he wanted to kill everyone who he thought would be a danger to her? So he killed the other servants as a precaution. Then he called out Natsuhi in front of the portrait and shot her because he knew she was a murderer.

A: It feels wrong.
K: What do you mean?
A: Partially too easy, partially because theres too many suspects. I want to be able to point to one person and say you! It was you! in the drawing room! With a candlestick!
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Eerieka posted...

The Scooby Gang can go home!

No they can't. They'll have this shit figured out and have a trap set for the killer in no time at all. Maybe even fit in a chase scene with the Goats and that old school classic Scooby Doo Music!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDgVJc288pk" data-time="

Eerieka posted...

Hes a coat rack.

Coffee Table.

lol, that's right you have that picture of him as a coffee table.

I've been doing some thinking on the meaning of 'furniture' in this story and I've started to see it as far less horrifying than it's initially presented. From the magical side of the story, I think it still refers to a servant. But from the 'real' side of the story, I think it only applies to the pieces of a soul. If the body of Sayo is a house, then all her personas are the furniture that decorates the inside of her soul.
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Eerieka posted...

lol, that's right you have that picture of him as a coffee table.

I've been doing some thinking on the meaning of 'furniture' in this story and I've started to see it as far less horrifying than it's initially presented. From the magical side of the story, I think it still refers to a servant. But from the 'real' side of the story, I think it only applies to the pieces of a soul. If the body of Sayo is a house, then all her personas are the furniture that decorates the inside of her soul.

Then what is Gaap.
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I'm not sure if you meant that to be a silly "what sort of furniture is Gaap" question or a serious "what is Gaap to Sayo" question. So I'll answer both ways!

Furniture: she's probably a cupboard. Or something that "opens up" if you catch my drift.

Sayo: she's the proto-Beatrice before Kinzo had the portrait made and Sayo didn't know what Beatrice looked like. She's also the scapegoat for anytime things went missing around the mansion and Sayo didn't want to confess that she lost things because of her own incompetence.
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bump

Arria's gonna finish up her analysis and we'll jump into Ep 5 on Monday!
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keepin it bumped
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tomorrow
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Hyyyype

Alright, at Arria house trying to get the voice and PS3 sprite patch to work. We're dumb, but we managed to get it for the first half so I have faith in us. D:
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Totally meant the furniture side =P, really love the cupboard answer.
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Haha, that was just an idea at the top of my head. No idea what other people might think Gaap's furniture equivalent should be. :P

(Arria and I did get the sprites and voices working. She had to stop at Moon Tourism, though, because it made her want to slap Krauss). We'll probably read more later. Now we gotta get some food.
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A: Episode 2 is the monster episode
K: How is it the monster episode?
A: Its the one that breaks your spirit. Its the one where you think youre in for a nice magical murder mystery, and theyre like NOPE, YOURE WRONG.
K: Didnt you say something like that about episode 1s first twilight?
A: I dont always learn my lessons the first time
A: But no, episode 2 was the one Beatrice described as like excruciating, or something like that. Extreme difficulty?
K: Yeah, its quite fascinating to reread it.
A: That reminds me of another thing. Episode 2 was the one with all the obnoxious dating scenes and I remember how last time I was like *snore* and you were like (excitedly) oh wow! Amazing!
(I wasnt THAT obvious about it, but its clear to Arria that theres more than meets the eye)

We spent some time reading the notes I made for Ep 2 and reminding her of various small things that happened. One problem is we couldnt remember where all the master keys were at specific points until there was a red truth saying Rosa had them all. Specifically, I couldnt remember where Kanons master key was after his body disappeared.

K: Okay, so lets start with Twilight 1. I think you solved the issue with the sealed envelope last time.
A: Yeah, the wax seals arent fool-proof and Rosa could feasibly understand how to remove it without breaking it and reapply it.
(Later: I realize now that we BOTH forgot about a red truth somewhere that said the key was never in anyones possession from the time it was given to Maria until the letter was opened. That said, I think Arria would be able to solve it easily now. Were told the chapel was locked by Rosa and no other evidence was ever shown suggesting she was telling the truth.)
A: Reading this part now, I have a different interpretation. (The part in question was where I wrote in the notes The seven Ushiromiya adults and Beatrice gathered in the chapel. All seven acknowledge the existence of Beatrice as a witch.)
A: I think this is just Rosa with a gun threatening everyone. There was a bar of gold here, correct?
K: Yeah, we were show at least one, possibly more, when the characters investigate the scene later
A: And that was the gold Krauss and Natsuhi knew about, right? What if they invited the family into the chapel and were going to show off the gold to gain some kind of leverage over them, but Rosa had a gun and decided fuck it and murdered them all to keep the gold.
K: Okay. So how about the Happy Halloween for Maria bit. Who did that?
A: Rosa? Maybe she was sick of Marias witch antics and wanted to scare her.
K: Do you think that Rosa would think that would work? Would Rosa think this will scare Maria or would she think this will encourage Maria.
A: I guess you have a point. Maybe it was one of the servants who didnt know Maria as well. Like, Ill use Gohda as an example, but it could be any of them maybe Gohda put it up as a warning to Rosa. He saw what she did and that message was to scare her into being compliant? A sort of dont fuck with us or your daughter is next.
K Okay
A Oh! Heres a strange thought: What if Maria herself did it? She could have the idea that Mama has to work to make money, therefore Mama cant spend time with me. But now that she has gold, her thoughts are Mama doesnt need to work anymore, therefore Mama can play with me and well have a fun Halloween party together.
K: So you think Maria herself painted the magic circle?
A: I mean, its not a strong idea, I admit, but it kinda works. Also, Im not saying that Maria committed the murders. I dont want to imagine her as Jack the Ripper Jr. over here.
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We move on to the second twilight. We have a lot of back and forth discussion that I didnt catch all of since she needed to look at the notes on my computer. A big part involved what it means when the red text said Kanon died in this room. Since I wasnt even sure how to mislead her with that line, I decided to let her run with whatever she came up with on her own. Her idea is that killing just means its where the fatal wound was made, although it allows him to run around bleeding and lets him die somewhere else on the island.
A: So I think Jessica killed Kanon. For some reason, she thought that he killed the parents and she had a moment of what the fuck, Kanon? so she invited him to her room. Something went wrong. Maybe he even attacked her first. Either way, they killed each other, although Kanons wound was such that he escaped and died off in the woods somewhere.
A: As for the door where did they find his key, again?
K: uhh (I forgot and couldnt find out quickly enough. I THOUGHT it was inside Jessicas room.)
A: So maybe Kanon left his key inside, then borrowed Gohdas key to lock the door.
K: Okay
A: OR! Maybe Gohda killed them both. Take out the middleman. Couple scenarios: Jessica and Kanon killed each other in the room and Gohda hauled Kanons body away, but left his key inside the room. Or Jessica left a killing blow on Kanon, who left his key behind, but he got away and then Gohda came in and killed Jessica.
K: Sure.
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K: Okay, so lets start with Twilight 1. I think you solved the issue with the sealed envelope last time.
A: Yeah, the wax seals arent fool-proof and Rosa could feasibly understand how to remove it without breaking it and reapply it.
(Later: I realize now that we BOTH forgot about a red truth somewhere that said the key was never in anyones possession from the time it was given to Maria until the letter was opened. That said, I think Arria would be able to solve it easily now. Were told the chapel was locked by Rosa and no other evidence was ever shown suggesting she was telling the truth.)
A: Reading this part now, I have a different interpretation. (The part in question was where I wrote in the notes The seven Ushiromiya adults and Beatrice gathered in the chapel. All seven acknowledge the existence of Beatrice as a witch.)
A: I think this is just Rosa with a gun threatening everyone. There was a bar of gold here, correct?
K: Yeah, we were show at least one, possibly more, when the characters investigate the scene later
A: And that was the gold Krauss and Natsuhi knew about, right? What if they invited the family into the chapel and were going to show off the gold to gain some kind of leverage over them, but Rosa had a gun and decided f*** it and murdered them all to keep the gold.
K: Okay. So how about the Happy Halloween for Maria bit. Who did that?

I love reading this topic because all of a sudden I'll get random, wild stray thoughts. Well, one old thought and one completely new one, but here we go:

#1. After learning about what 'gouging and killing' is in relation to 'finding the entrance to the golden land,' what if Game 2 is all about how Rosa solved the epitaph? It's the game board written by Shannon with the most urgency to discover her identity and understand who Shannon is and what love is and feels the most confessional with her heartache (though thinking on how she wrote these when Battler was a surprise to return to the island is a bit of a mystery thinking back now...), and even one of the few where she definitely died before the end of the game. Those games are almost always the ones where someone else discovered the gold. Game one is all Shannon, all planning to perfection. Game two is Rosa throwing a wrench into everything, the Black Witch coming about with how brutal some of the deaths are, and Rosa's golden land and run from the bomb definite signs that she knew stuff.

So, if Rosa solved the epitaph, she would know how to get into the chapel without needing the envelope key. ...Okay, reading the Red Truths is making my head hurt, but 'this front door' is tricky... and the six people doesn't fit either when Rosa first opened the door or when Battler's group came (but there's also no mention of ONLY the six, nor red specification it was the six who died).

Also, was there a letter in Maria's envelope or just a key? "The letter that I handed over to Maria and the one Rosa opened are the same thing" // "The key to the chapel truly was the object inside the envelope I gave Maria" What is the key wasn't a key? Rosa opens the door with the physical key while accompanied by Shannon and Kanon. What if there's an actual letter in there with the answer for how to enter? Did Battler ever physically see the physical key?

Now, more and more and more overthinking... Rosa never discovered the gold. I'm lying, Rosa never discovered the gold. This is Vengeance Yasu showing off that she is Beatrice to the six adults (not counting Rosa who wasn't invited), blowing them up, then focusing all the clues to pinning it on Rosa. For Maria and her story of abuse? For her dead mother? Because she's broken and messed up?

#2. SMALL BOMBS? Or maybe, Shannon and her love to explode things this episode just hid dynamite under the table!

I don't know. My brain's running too wild now...
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Interesting ideas, and I don't know the answer to whether there was an actual paper letter in the envelope or not. I think Ep 2 is a Vengeance Yasu, like you said, but there certainly COULD be kakera out there where Rosa found the gold and it went more like your first idea. Then again, I suppose there could be kakera where anything happens.

No update today since I'm a scum who half-assedly typed up Arria's thoughts and still need to put them in a more coherent structure. >_<
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Episode 2, Nanjo + Kumasawa murder:

K: Now the next one, with ghost Kanon.
A: Huh. Now that I think Kanon could have gotten away and bled to death elsewhere, I wonder if it IS Kanon. Shannon goes to get spider web. I know they did that because of the butterfly-spider symbolism, but did you know spider web has some medicinal properties? They have a lot of something (edit: vitamin K) which people in ye olden days used in bandages because it helped clot wounds.
K: They have modern stuff here, too, like a first aid kit somewhere.
A: Maybe this is Shannon getting a first aid kit while also maintaining the spider eat butterfly symbolism.
A: But anyway, Battler isnt anywhere in this room, is he?
K: No, hes with Rosa in the parlor room when this is going down.
A: Then literally anything could be happening here. It could have been a Mexican standoff done wrong. Or one of the three who lived did it and told the other two to shut up or theyre next. Oooh *thinks*
A: Gohda and Genji could have teamed up to do it, and then threatened Shannon to stay quiet. Yes, thats what Im going with. I dont think Kanon had anything to do with this scene. Hes off in the woods dying somewhere. Maybe already dead. Gohda and Genji killed the walrus and Kumasawa, then told Shannon to lie to Rosa or else shes next. Then they go to Rosa and say (utterly flat tone): oh yes, Kanon did it. Uh-huh. It was Kanon.
---

The murder of Gohda, George, and Shannon was difficult for me upon a reread because I didnt know what the fuck Yasu was doing or if someone else was killing him/her here. But after reading other interpretations and what the manga said, I get it now.

A: Here it says Shannon wanted to go to Natsuhis room to get a mirror. What if shes actually talking about a gun?
K: Could be. I mean, guns in Umineko have been represented as everything from an actual gun to bunny girls. No reason a mirror cant be codename for a gun. (thinking: Also, Shannon basically did mirror = bomb earlier that episode, but I hope Arria forgot about that)
A: I imagine Shannon nudging George with her elbow and being like Hey, uhh theres a mirror in Natsuhis room that will protect us from the witch. Wanna go get it with me? Shannon wants to get a gun to protect herself from Gohda and Genji. When she suggests leaving, Genji tells Gohda to go with them so they dont get any funny ideas. Then in Natsuhis room lets see, how does this play out? Essentially I think Gohda killed George and Shannon, but one of them left a killing blow on him, too.
K: What do you think of this line here? (pointing to where I typed Genji stayed behind to wait for a call from Kinzo.)
A: Obviously we know thats bullshit. Maybe he went to go set the bomb? Or maybe Genji followed the three in secret. Alright, this is what Im going with. Gohda killed Shannon from behind, then George killed Gohda in revenge. He thought hed get away with it, but Genji was close behind and killed George.
K: So how did the room get locked? It says Rosa has all the master keys
A: Why is Rosa in quotation marks?
K: *laughs* Her name was in quotation marks in the wiki, which I copy-pasted. I dont remember why.
A: Maybe its meant to imply something. Something like all the keys are under Rosas control directly or indirectly. Maybe she gave a master key to Genji with the implication that shes paying him or hes otherwise under her control. So yeah, lets say Genji had a master key and locked the room after the murder.

I love that Arria pretty much got it entirely backwards
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bump. I needed her to answer a question before the next update and she hasn't answered yet. D:
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*peeks in*
Uhm. Sorry that I was away...there are just so many things happening.

I-I mean,
Ahaha! So this gameboard is still running, excellent! I commend you! I trust you're at least wise enough to accept that witches are fickle and come and go as they desire, right? Still, since I'm here I might stay for a little while.
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RAAAKAAAAA

*glomps*

We missed you, friend. ;_;

Arria just started episode 5, but at the end of 4 I had her go through notes and try to figure stuff out. Current updates include that discussion, but I sorta half-assedly wrote notes as she was talking and now I'm going through the process of turning my half-assed replication of Arria's comments and turning them into something semi-readable.

Long story short, the current updates are slow coming, but when I'm finished, we'll be on episode 5. :D
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Wow, nice! Also wow EP4 is that long that I went away for like months and she just finished it lol. Say hi to Arria!
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I will! And yeah, ep 4 was a bit of a drag lol.

I still haven't gotten a response from her for the question I asked, so fuck it, I'm gonna start posting my ep 5 stuff!

~~~

Episode 5

We start with Beatrice trolling Battler in flashbacks
A: I feel like I walked in on a conversation and someone like so what do you think of this? And Im like you what?
K: I think this is just showing times Beatrice trolled Battler
A: Is this the end of each episode? (as we see the end of ep 3)
K: Nah, just random moments. And some of them I dont think weve seen. Theyre just there to show us what could have happened some time.
A: Ah Beatrice, the trolls troll

Battler: I dont fully understand your moves
A: Even Kyrie said that chessboard thinking only works if you know your opponent. You cant plan for crazy. Like when I move the knight because ooh, pretty horsie! and not because I have an amazing plan!
K: I think youve made this joke already
A: Fuck you! I like it!

Long-haired Beato appears
A: ooooh, I like that sprite. Maybe not the creepy dead eyes, but the rest I like!
---

A: If Beatrice is acting, this is some damn impressive acting. Give this girl an Oscar!

Game: Battler didnt think hed ever hear her laugh again
A: Somehow, I severely doubt well never hear ahaha.wav ever again. I bet if I look in the game files, Ill find it! Dont be an asshole!

A: If we ever gets someone to cosplay as her, I think we should go hair-down. 1, its gorgeous. 2, it shows we played long enough to know it exists.
K: I have a plan, actually, but it involves playing even MORE before I can reveal it.
(One of us will be hair-down schoolgirl Beato and one of us will be hair-up dress Beato.)

Battler says he wants to sit out the next game
A: I dont think thats an option, sweetie!

Lambda: Ill be the game master!
A: Anyone who sits down to Lambdas game has to be fucking insane. Like, if you go to a con and you see someone dressed as Lambdadelta at a D&D table, you just fucking leave. *laughs* now I want to do that. Welcome to my game board, motherfucker!
K: (Fuck I want to comment on how much more evil Bern is as a game master)
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Hair up Beato is best Beato.

Lambda is the real MVP. She plays much, much more fairly than Bern. Bern is a jerk.

Lol my friend just cosplayed 34 last week.

Also hair-down sad Beato is too depressing. Chick Beatrice is a good grill, but Battler's treatment to her is depressing.
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I'm still waiting on Arria to come around to Lambda, but hey, maybe it'll happen this episode. If nothing else, I expect she'll at least get ahead of Bern in the rankings.

Beato the elder is fun all around and Chick Beato is sweet, but she's not trolly enough.

I could never get away with cosplaying Lambda. I don't have the body, personality, or... anything... for her. I do like the amaloli style though. It seems like there aren't as many amaloli characters as there should be.
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Lambda: Im sure youll see a lot of stuff that confuses you
A: *points to game screen* Fuck you
Lambda: but that might lead to some big hints, get it?
A: Im suspicious. Go on

A: Im so ready for one of them to say besides, were making hamburgers! At which point Ill need to use the bathroom

Lambda: <perfect>
A: Why is that in carets?
K: Its how the game says she said it in English
Lambda continues talking oddly with random capitalization and English and calling herself/her game <cute> and <elegant>
A: I am feeling very uncomfortable. Also, the game is basically making fun of itself now

Lambda: you wanna surrender and lose by default?
Bern: And your sister will suffer forever
A: God you two are bitches.

Bern: because I am your ally
A: *nervous chuckle* Yeah, I dont
---

Eerieka posted...

Bern: because I am your ally
A: *nervous chuckle* Yeah, I dont

Well, this is a <good> start.
---

Oh yeah, I had her do a character ranking!

Character ranking:

Kyrie
Rudolf
Genji
Chiester 00 (A: "Ooh, but the blonde bunny girl here. She's my favorite. She's cute and cool!")
Ronove (We put him here when Genji and Beatrice were the only ones between him, so she phrased it as: Ronove goes under Genji and on top of Beatrice. Giggity.)
Ange (K: You like Ange that much? A: I do! I know it must be a controversial choice, but I like her! K: I mean I think people eventually grow to like her, but it usually takes a while. I think a lot of people are disgusted by the Ep 4 stuff and dislike her because of that.
Mammon (A: Definitely my favorite stake now, since she got some characterization last episode)
Beatrice
Chiester 556 (A: See Gaap, this is what being adorable and dressing nicely earns you!)
Natsuhi
Satan
Chiester 45
Belphegor
Virgilia
Gohda
Amakusa
Beelzebub
Krauss (A: Youre only this high because you amused me last game, you little bastard.)
Asmodeus
Battler
Chiester 410
Lucifer
Shannon
George
Hideyoshi
Kanon
Maria
Sakutaro
Eva
Jessica
Leviathan
Gaap (A: I cannot deal with your shoes, Gaap.)
The Walrus (A: Bonus points if you literally just put the walrus. K: I need bonus points. I then told her how Id been playing Dragon Quest Monsters 2 lately, which I havent played since I was about 12 years old so I didnt remember any of them monsters. I saw one of them was called WalrusMan, so I immediately bred one and named it Nanjo. She gave me a thumbs up for that.)
Bernkastel
Kumasawa
Lambdadelta
Rosa (Before we put in the above two: A: Put Rosa under the walrus. Dont actually put Rosa under a walrus. She may be a terrible person, but she doesnt deserve that.)
Kinzo
Kasumi (A: yes, the corpse gets higher than you because youre a piece of shit.)
Eva-Beatrice (A: Oh my god I hate hate hate hate hate you.)

K: Did we get everyone important? I dont care about the one-off Ep 4 Ange-story characters. Amakusa and Kasumi are the only ones I feel are worth mentioning.
A: I feel like were missing someone important and were going to get called out on it
(I had forgotten about Sakutaro until Arria remembered That fucking lion! and when she said it I thought she was talking about Lion and I was thinking how the fuck do you know about Lion? And then I realized she was talking about Sakutaro. <_>)
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Didn't we only get to see 556 in, like, the Profiles page?

Also yeah EP 4 is probably Krauss' high point.

Hahahah I'm glad you didn't accidentally spoil Lion for her.

Does she have a point to separate characters she dislikes - characters she fees neutral about - and characters she actually likes?
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Yeah, with 556 I think that was the joke she was making. Arria ranked her highly solely based on her looks and information in her profile. When I showed her some art of 556, she says she's "freaking adorable." I didn't think she'd love 556 as much, but hey, at least the poor dead bunny is getting some love.

If I had to guess based on her tone of voice and enthusiasm for each character, I'd put the good-neutral boundary somewhere around Virgilia-Gohda, maybe? Although she seems to like Beelzebub a lot, and I think Amakusa is more of my crush than hers. She hasn't shown a lot of love toward him, despite ranking him fairly high.

She doesn't really 'hate' anyone other than the bottom three. I don't think she hates Rosa as a character, just hates what she has done. I think the voyager witches are low because they creeped her out, but I wouldn't say she hates them as of yet. And I distinctly remember her saying that she is neutral toward Kumasawa since she hasn't done anything other than "be Virgilia, who is a separate character."
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"Ohohoho, this old woman is very sad to hear that you forgot my mackerel jokes, Miss Arria..."
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Haha. I don't know if I remembered it being more emphasized when I first read it all those years ago, but it seems the Steam version doesn't have as many mackerel jokes. In fact, I think most mackerel jokes in Ep 4 were from Virgilia.
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Bern shows Battler Anges death and oh man he would be totally justified punching her here. fuck waiting for ep 8. (the game says Bern is untouchable anyway)

A: This isnt even subtle manipulation
Game: something about comparing Bern to a cat
A: She is a lot like a cat. She might be cute and cuddly, or she might shit in your slipper

Lambda: you are a cheap snack
Bern: like those 30 yen potato wafers
A: that actually sounds really good

A: Berns giggle is almost worse than ahaha.wav

Lambda talks to Bern about the game shes made
Lambda: Hey Battler, are you listening? (Battler leaves)
A: *laughs* Is this another moment of Ryukishi got in the cocaine and is talking to himself?
K: I think its just his way of having fun with Lambda
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