Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - Rage on Behalf of the Machine [dwmf]

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://imgur.com/a/ePlbm

we rally round the deep state
with a pocket full of bills
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Not sure which of these is more awesome:

https://steemit.com/anarchy/@dollarvigilante/they-said-if-you-want-anarchy-go-to-somalia-so-here-i-am

https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2018/03/antler-restaurant-vegan-protest-toronto/
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http://babylonbee.com/news/opinion-i-will-stop-at-nothing-to-take-away-your-constitutional-rights-whoa-bro-why-are-you-attacking-me-im-just-a-kid/
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so the moral of the story is that if any constitutional rights disappear, it will be because of a bunch of kids?
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If the specific constitutional right of bearing arms is taken away, yes. Both because they will be the population shift responsible for making it a popular stance, and because it is being done in the name of saving the children.
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wouldn't it make more sense to blame whoever is taking the constitutional right away?
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the government who will only do so when it is beneficial (culturally popular) for them to do so? You're splitting hairs
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SmartMuffin posted...

Not sure which of these is more awesome:

https://steemit.com/anarchy/@dollarvigilante/they-said-if-you-want-anarchy-go-to-somalia-so-here-i-am

https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2018/03/antler-restaurant-vegan-protest-toronto/

It's definitely the first one but both are a couple steps above your usual links.
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If only the kids shut up then your liberties would be safe.

Though it is the opposition who seems to be trying to reduce the validity of the kids due to their age. As if there weren't millions of adults who share the same opinions. It's like dismissing libertarians because vlado claims he is one.

However what IS really important is that these kids were direct victims of the crisis they are arguing about. This gives them a special and unique validity that goes far beyond all the millions who have been calling for gun control for decades. I was actually going to write a big post on FB about this, but I guess I should do a test run here.

TLDR this is our generation's war on terror. Not in the sense there's a huge generation-defining crisis, because 9/11 did define our generation in that way. It's more in the sense that this is the first crisis that directly affects us, where we are ADULTS and have real agency and can make real choices regarding the future of this issue (to the extent that our totalitarian govt allows). That's what these kids are very powerfully proving with reactionary, retribution-based rhetoric ("never again").

And so the question is: will we repeat our parents' mistake and enthusiastically cheer for an invasion of Afghanistan and then Iraq etc, just because we want SOMETHING to be done in retribution for our pain? Never even considering that what we're doing might actually be worse than doing nothing, and nowhere close to doing the Actually Right Thing that solves the Actual Problem (i.e. sending in a strike team to assassinate Bin Laden, or punishing the CIA/Saudi Arabia).

Our generation has always been able to blame the establishments and past generations for screwing everything up. We couldn't help that, we're just living in the broken system they left us. But with this issue, there is no scapegoat like that. The direction this issue goes is very much in our hands, and unfortunately it looks like most people are taking the reactionary Iraq War route.

As a kid and growing up, I tried to figure out why the Iraq War happened. I figured the people didn't really support it, and the government was just abusing their power to go in there, which was partially true... but now I realize that there was actually a ton of public support. Due to the exact same reactionary rhetoric and warmongering that is being used in this movement. "never again" is no different than the war on terror.

So then, can't we just learn from our immediate past and go in a better direction? Try to eliminate the actual sources of the problem. Disarm the police, fix the economy, de-radicalize the political process, etc.

Either way, the important point is that doing SOMETHING is not always better than doing nothing. We can't just do ANYTHING.
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HotDogButts posted...

the government who will only do so when it is beneficial (culturally popular) for them to do so?

lol, the government only does stuff when it's culturally popular now? yeah, we all loved it when trump randomly attacked syria.
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anyway, my original point was that gun control has been becoming a more popular thing in the US in the past few years and that it's pretty ridiculous to say it's "these kids's fault." they may contribute to it becoming more popular, sure, but they're part of a large cultural shift.
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That was a pretty great foolmo post. Four paragraphs of pointless virtue signaling where he really tries to make it seem like he disagrees with me. Then one sentence at the end where he basically admits I was right.
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I just explained the difference between previous gun control sentiment and this new one. It's like the difference between desert storm and the war on terror. Result is the same but the motivations are very different.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Then one sentence at the end where he basically admits I was right

You didn't even say anything, how can you be right?
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That's a pretty important difference with this issue too. We are at the beginning, and we have to actually present new ideas in order to make a difference. We can't just point and laugh at the past like we can with the establishment and previous generations.

We NEED to have alternate solutions and present a better direction to go in, which is the main difficulty with advocating for nothing over a bad something. Trumpism/meme obsession has totally disabled a ton of would-be "conservatives"/"libertarians" in that sense. You're not even a pawn in someone else's game, you're just a tile on the board.

"Build the wall" is another great example. Complete political sheep herding.
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Result is the same but the motivations are very different.

It's not tho. Why this shooting and not Columbine? Or Sandy Hook for that matter?

Because the organized left-wing protest machine didn't want to mobilize in a way that would make a sitting Democrat President look bad.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Why this shooting and not Columbine? Or Sandy Hook for that matter?

Columbine was almost 20 years ago and Sandy Hook was an elementary school?
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SmartMuffin posted...

Result is the same but the motivations are very different.

It's not tho. Why this shooting and not Columbine? Or Sandy Hook for that matter?

Because the organized left-wing protest machine didn't want to mobilize in a way that would make a sitting Democrat President look bad.

These protests have been very targeted towards the Legislative branch and not so much towards Trump

I think his brief fuck the NRA swerve paid off in this sense. He backed both sides of the issue so that no one could pin him down on any position to rally against.
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foolm0r0n posted...

As a kid and growing up, I tried to figure out why the Iraq War happened. I figured the people didn't really support it, and the government was just abusing their power to go in there, which was partially true... but now I realize that there was actually a ton of public support.

Ive been of voting age since Bush/Gore. I voted Kerry in 04 and I, like you, believed the people did not support this war and that Bush would be voted out as a response.

Instead whoops! Only Republican popular vote victory since 1988 and counting.
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SmartMuffin posted...

It's not tho. Why this shooting and not Columbine? Or Sandy Hook for that matter?

Because the organized left-wing protest machine didn't want to mobilize in a way that would make a sitting Democrat President look bad.

That's my point. There's been incidents and victims forever, and the media has been trying their spins forever. But THIS issue actually comes from the real victims (ib4 paid actors), not just predators capitalizing on an opportunity. Just like the war on terror came from real people's galvanization after 9/11 which wasn't there with other terrorist attacks. Or BLM which was triggered by just one out of thousands of unjust shootings (which DID make the democrat president look really bad and arguably lost the next democrat her election).

You can scapegoat "the machine", but that only works for issues we too young to have had an affect on. But that doesn't work in this situation. We have agency here. The results will be our fault.

(I did just realize that BLM is an earlier example of a movement that our generation has agency in, but it is slighttttly less accessible to a mainstream audience than "never again". But it is the much better movement.)
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Muffin, like many leftists, thinks "being woke" means voting for Hillary
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But THIS issue actually comes from the real victims (ib4 paid actors)

You think David Hogg is doing all of this for free? At the very least we know he's getting free Kind bars!

These people aren't "real victims." They aren't the family of the dead. The most famous activists don't even seem to have any particularly strong personal connections to any of them.

And it still fails to answer the question - why are these "real victims" signal boosted so strongly, whereas "real victims" from the other 500 school shootings that happen every day (according to occupy democrats) didn't have a peep to say about anything?

What about the Maryland one that just happened but failed because it encountered an armed response? Where are those victims?

This is all directed from the top. Nothing about this is genuine. It's all an elaborate stage play.
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SmartMuffin posted...

This is all directed from the top.

Please tell me you dont mean George Soros
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Jakyl25 posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

This is all directed from the top.

Please tell me you dont mean George Soros

I mean he's probably involved, sure. But it's not just him. This all doesn't just go away if he dies. It's the same usual suspects. You think a few rando high school seniors organized worldwide marches and demonstrations. Please, the same people who organized this organized the woman's marches, and the BLM marches, and every other left-wing outrage of the week.
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So I guess basically this is about whether you think the Parkland kids are Actually Upset or not?
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/27/nc-sheriff-hopeful-apologizes-for-joke-about-taking-guns-away-from-peoples-cold-bare-hands.html

And of course, this guy gets away with "just a joke" but the "skinhead lesbian" guy had to drop out immediately.
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Jakyl25 posted...

So I guess basically this is about whether you think the Parkland kids are Actually Upset or not?

Of course they're actually upset. I'm sure everyone whose school gets shot up was actually upset. But this school shooting was not particularly unique in any way, really. I'm sure the friends and family and survivors of Pulse and Vegas and everything else were upset. So why does it lead to all of this when nothing else did?
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SmartMuffin posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

This is all directed from the top.

Please tell me you dont mean George Soros

I mean he's probably involved, sure. But it's not just him. This all doesn't just go away if he dies. It's the same usual suspects. You think a few rando high school seniors organized worldwide marches and demonstrations. Please, the same people who organized this organized the woman's marches, and the BLM marches, and every other left-wing outrage of the week.

Did they send the shooter too?
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SmartMuffin posted...

This is all directed from the top. Nothing about this is genuine. It's all an elaborate stage play.

You realize that doesn't actually answer the question of "why this one" though
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SmartMuffin posted...

And it still fails to answer the question

It answers it completely. YOUR theory is the one that doesn't answer why it took until this shooting for the machine to manufacture a movement like this. Or why it took until Ferguson for BLM to be manufactured. Or 9/11 for the war on terror.

I'm gonna call this "chess tile politics". You have no interest in actually answering the questions you are posing, all you care about is how you can absolve yourself entirely of guilt, and most importantly, responsibility. You are actively rejecting answers so that you can maintain "plausible" deniability when shit doesn't go your way.

SmartMuffin posted...

You think David Hogg is doing all of this for free?

You are literally crying about capitalism right now. This is what you have been reduced to.

YOU are the product of the machine. Total intellectual disability. And without even any checks from Soros.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

So I guess basically this is about whether you think the Parkland kids are Actually Upset or not?

Of course they're actually upset. I'm sure everyone whose school gets shot up was actually upset. But this school shooting was not particularly unique in any way, really. I'm sure the friends and family and survivors of Pulse and Vegas and everything else were upset. So why does it lead to all of this when nothing else did?

Given that you think this is specifically a conspiracy against Republicans in power, Im not sure what youre trying to say about Vegas?
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Did they send the shooter too?

No, but they do run the schools where these things always tend to happen.

And run might be a bit strong, but they do have a huge influence over the psychology field that puts all these kids on mind-altering drugs.

And they do run the culture that tells us fathers aren't important, and that men must be judged primarily based on their social and sexual success.
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Given that you think this is specifically a conspiracy against Republicans in power, Im not sure what youre trying to say about Vegas?

The circumstances around Vegas are still shady AF. That one might have well been some sort of false flag or CIA op gone wrong. I really have no idea what happened there - but they didn't push gun control that hard after it so probably not directly related to this.
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SmartMuffin posted...

And they do run the culture that tells us fathers aren't important,

Well really its pretty well proven that whats important is two parents in general

and that men must be judged primarily based on their social and sexual success.

This is conservative culture, not liberal
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Jakyl25 posted...

SmartMuffin posted...

and that men must be judged primarily based on their social and sexual success.

This is conservative culture, not liberal

Nah conservative culture says that men are better than women regardless of their social and sexual success. It's different!
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SmartMuffin posted...

Given that you think this is specifically a conspiracy against Republicans in power, Im not sure what youre trying to say about Vegas?

The circumstances around Vegas are still shady AF. That one might have well been some sort of false flag or CIA op gone wrong. I really have no idea what happened there - but they didn't push gun control that hard after it so probably not directly related to this.

The bump stock ban that Trump just announced last week is a direct result of that shooting. Bureaucracy moves at a snails pace.

There is as of yet no actual gun reform caused by Parkland
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Well really its pretty well proven that whats important is two parents in general

For most of the generic statistics, yes. For mass murder, I'm not so sure. Young men need to be taught how to be men, and 500 women can't do that, no matter how much testosterone they're injecting.

This is conservative culture, not liberal

Strong disagree. "Creepy" guys are shunned in schools, welcomed with open arms in churches. I guess if you're trying to imply that frat-bro culture is "conservative" you may have a point, but it isn't.
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The bump stock ban that Trump just announced last week is a direct result of that shooting. Bureaucracy moves at a snails pace.

There is as of yet no actual gun reform caused by Parkland

No, it's a direct result of this. Trump had forgotten about it and never mentioned it until this happened. You're right that it makes no fucking sense logically for it to be a result of this, but logic doesn't matter to these people.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Young men need to be taught how to be men, and 500 women can't do that, no matter how much testosterone they're injecting.

How many women commit mass shootings, though? Maybe the issue isn't the teacher but the subject matter *thinking emoji*
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SmartMuffin posted...

Well really its pretty well proven that whats important is two parents in general

For most of the generic statistics, yes. For mass murder, I'm not so sure. Young men need to be taught how to be men, and 500 women can't do that, no matter how much testosterone they're injecting.

This is conservative culture, not liberal

Strong disagree. "Creepy" guys are shunned in schools, welcomed with open arms in churches. I guess if you're trying to imply that frat-bro culture is "conservative" you may have a point, but it isn't.

It absolutely is. It shuns change, its very highly gatekept, its anti-intellectual, it propels the conservative take on gender roles, and its largely white

You think frat boys didnt vote Trump?
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I think we are arguing things based on differing definitions of words, since you just lumped Trump in with the people you think are orchestrating this grand gun control plot
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You guys complain about media manipulation and then EXCLUSIVELY argue media spins

Like, why? It's all just for entertainment?
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SmartMuffin posted...

makes no fucking sense logically

Then why is it a result of this? Do you care at all about the answer?

I posted the answer up there already. I have answers to most of your "mysteries". But you won't even say I'm wrong - you refuse to even consider that there COULD be an answer.
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Insanely unrelated but I'm reading through my facebook data dump and my very first messages... there's a solid 3-4 girls who were blatantly hitting on me that I never reciprocated with at all. I kinda remember noticing it but maybe I was too shy to make any moves? It's weird as hell though.
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https://www.inquisitr.com/4843788/new-study-explores-personal-and-group-identity-formation-in-online-communities/

Radicalization requires de-individualization
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Jakyl25 posted...

Well really its pretty well proven that whats important is two parents in general

is it?
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SmartMuffin posted...

Young men need to be taught how to be men, and 500 women can't do that, no matter how much testosterone they're injecting.

i see you still don't grasp the concept of "correlation isn't causation."

(also, elliot rodger was raised by a single father and he still became an "effeminate pussy," to use your homeboy cantwell's words. gee, it's almost like you don't automatically become a manly man if you get raised by a man!)
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i see you still don't grasp the concept of "correlation isn't causation."

That's not actually what it is in this case.

Muffin has a conclusion that he wants evidence for, and this is evidence that matches his conclusion, so he accepts it as part of his truth. That's why he would never blame their gender, their whiteness, or the fact they all are angry on the internet, which are all also correlations here.
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foolm0r0n posted...

That's not actually what it is in this case.

Muffin has a conclusion that he wants evidence for, and this is evidence that matches his conclusion, so he accepts it as part of his truth. That's why he would never blame their gender, their whiteness, or the fact they all are angry on the internet, which are all also correlations here.

that's a better way of putting it but yeah, that's what i meant. like i pointed out in one of the previous topics, this is his reasoning:

"turns out the majority of the shooters have played a lot of GTA? hm, interesting, we should look into this to see if there's any kind of causation there."

"turns out the majority of the shooters were raised by single moms? MORE EVIDENCE THAT SINGLE MOMS ARE EVIL QED."

a good comparison would be jack thompson - he uses the fact that the shooters played GTA as "evidence" that video games are evil. he just hates video games (in the same way muffin hates single moms), so he blames the shootings on a different thing than muffin does.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

i see you still don't grasp the concept of "correlation isn't causation."

That's not actually what it is in this case.

Muffin has a conclusion that he wants evidence for, and this is evidence that matches his conclusion, so he accepts it as part of his truth. That's why he would never blame their gender, their whiteness, or the fact they all are angry on the internet, which are all also correlations here.

https://imgur.com/a/uMnnr
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