Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 3: The Maddening (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

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_SecretSquirrel
02/21/18 12:30:47 AM
#38:


Also, Edgeworth refuses to believe in channeling as late as 3-5, and he was also present for some of the transformations, and was no doubt keeping tabs on Phoenix and thus should be aware of 2-2 that could only be possible via channeling.
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LeonhartFour
02/21/18 12:40:41 AM
#39:


I'm guessing he at least reluctantly accepts it after 3-5 or he'd have to be making some crazy rationalizations to keep refusing to believe it after 6-5
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LeonhartFour
02/21/18 4:41:51 PM
#40:


The sky is blue, and so am I.

The clouds, they tell me nothing.
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LeonhartFour
02/21/18 4:53:54 PM
#41:


"Not to brag, sir, but I knew it from the moment I saw her. 'She'd do it,' I said."

(Do WHAT?! I'm starting to think the most suspicious person here is this guy.)

what a great exchange
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SeabassDebeste
02/21/18 4:57:21 PM
#42:


i actually really like day 1 of 1-2, come to think of it. it's just so different from almost any other case, and undermined by the endi
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LeonhartFour
02/21/18 5:01:14 PM
#43:


1-2's an underappreciated case precisely because the ending is overhated.
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LeonhartFour
02/21/18 6:17:23 PM
#44:


my word there's so much missable dialogue on investigation day 2

it's kind of driving me nuts
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SeabassDebeste
02/21/18 6:29:52 PM
#45:


how so? accidentally triggering plot events that prevents you from getting optional dialogue?
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LeonhartFour
02/21/18 6:34:53 PM
#46:


Well, there are small pieces of dialogue that you get if you are thorough in going to every location after every event, but you'll miss them if you wait too long. If you only go where you're supposed to go next, you'll miss stuff.

you can also get locked out of dialogue choices if you do things in the wrong order

I feel like that stuff stops happening after the first game though

finally got through the investigation day though thankfully
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WiggumFan267
02/21/18 8:04:04 PM
#47:


tag
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 12:12:39 AM
#48:


Phoenix: "Both witnesses are telling the truth." (For once...)
Edgeworth: "Hah! I doubt it!"

1-2 has a bunch of great little exchanges like this
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 1:09:21 AM
#49:


1-2 complete!

Total lines by segment:

3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
E1-4 Middle - 1030
E1-4 End - 979
E1-4 Beginning - 926
1-2 Trial Day 1 - 524
1-2 Trial Day 2 - 447
1-2 Investigation Day 1 - 402
1-2 Investigation Day 2 - 400
1-1 - 389

Total lines by case:

E1-4 - 2935
1-2 - 1773
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
1-1 - 389

Totals lines by game:

AAI1 - 2935
T&T - 2392
PW1 - 2162

Total lines by character per case:

Turnabout Sisters (1-2)

1. Phoenix Wright - 812 (45.80%)
2. Redd White - 162 (9.14%)
3. Maya Fey - 144 (8.12%)
4. The Judge - 142 (8.01%)
5. Miles Edgeworth - 129 (7.28%)
6. April May - 104 (5.87%)
7. Dick Gumshoe - 97 (5.47%)
8. Marvin Grossberg - 74 (4.17%)
9. The Bellboy - 52 (2.93%)
10. Mia Fey - 45 (2.54%)
11. Other - 12

Total lines by character per game:

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney

1. Phoenix Wright - 947
2. The Judge - 213
3. Redd White - 162
4. Maya Fey - 144
5. Miles Edgeworth - 129
6. April May - 104
7. Dick Gumshoe - 97
8. Mia Fey - 96
9. Marvin Grossberg - 74
10. Frank Sahwit - 58
11. The Bellboy - 52
12. Winston Payne - 44
13. Larry Butz - 29
14. Other - 13

Most lines per case:

Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 1328
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 812
Mia Fey (3-4) - 436
Mia Fey (3-1) - 396
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 135

Highest percentage of lines per case:

Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 45.80%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 45.25%
Mia Fey (3-4) - 35.59%
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 34.70%
Mia Fey (3-1) - 33.93%

Testimonies by character:

1. Dahlia Hawthorne - 48 lines/8 testimonies
2. Dick Gumshoe - 28 lines/5 testimonies
3. Calisto Yew - 21 lines/5 testimonies
4. Redd White - 29 lines/4 testimonies
5. Frank Sahwit - 20 lines/3 testimonies
6. Phoenix Wright - 17 lines/3 testimonies
7. April May - 14 lines/2 testimonies
8. Franziska von Karma - 10 lines/2 testimonies
9. The Judge - 10 lines/2 testimonies
10. Tyrell Badd - 6 lines/1 testimony
11. Terry Fawles - 6 lines/1 testimony
12. The Bellboy - 5 lines/1 testimony

Total lines by character:

1. Miles Edgeworth - 1621
2. Phoenix Wright - 1106
3. Mia Fey - 928
4. The Judge - 584
5. Franziska von Karma - 519
6. Dick Gumshoe - 398
7. Dahlia Hawthorne - 284
7. Calisto Yew - 256
8. Tyrell Badd - 242
9. The Judge's Brother - 221
10. Winston Payne - 209
11. Redd White - 162
12. Marvin Grossberg - 150
13. Maya Fey - 144
14. Godot - 112
15. April May - 104
16. Kay Faraday - 99
17. Terry Fawles - 74
18. Manfred von Karma - 68
19. Frank Sahwit - 58
20. The Bellboy - 52
21. Other - 50
22. Larry Butz - 29
23. Shi-Long Lang - 3

Overall total lines - 7490
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NeoElfboy
02/22/18 1:26:45 AM
#50:


Looks like Phoenix is gonna pass Edgeworth during 1-3 after all.

I'm surprised 1-2 has so many lines! I think of that case as so short; I breezed through it in an hour the last time I played. I guess you're counting optional stuff and there's a lot of it compared to non-investigative cases, but still, I wasn't expecting it to be significantly longer than 3-4.

I object to the claim that the ending of 1-2 overhated. It's both nonsensical (why would Redd confess to a capital crime?) and anticlimactic as hell.
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 1:34:34 AM
#51:


I'm not doing all the optional stuff, but I'm doing as much as I can as long as I don't have to do a hard reset to get it.

1-2's about an hour longer than 3-4 based on my times, so another 500 lines isn't too unbelievable. Plus, the writing style in the first game feels different than the other games. Feels like it's more terse and there's a lot more rapid-fire back and forth between the characters.

NeoElfboy posted...
(why would Redd confess to a capital crime?)


because he's stuck with eternal shame either way and he's a dude who's been obsessed over public image and repercussions of it for his entire career (also he'd be pretty boned because all the people who he's spent years blackmailing would no longer have a reason to fear him and could take revenge on him, a la the Phantom)

or something, I don't care that much

Mia coming back from the dead to nail the guy who killed her to silence her is great

also the quick pans after White confesses from Edgeworth hunched over his desk, unable to believe he just lost, to Phoenix with that goofy grin on his face, are just great
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transcience
02/22/18 6:49:28 AM
#52:


wow, Edgeworth is low. I wonder if that's the lowest percentage for a prosecutor.
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Paratroopa1
02/22/18 7:21:05 AM
#53:


I've probably said this before but I love how surreal 1-2 is from a character development standpoint - all of the scenes of Phoenix and Maya meeting each other are great where they don't know each other and they're both grieving over the loss of someone important to them which is treated exactly as somberly and awkwardly as it should be

But man that ending is really crap, easily the lamest 'gotcha' on the murderer in the series
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 12:07:12 PM
#54:


transcience posted...
wow, Edgeworth is low. I wonder if that's the lowest percentage for a prosecutor.


wait for Winston in 4-1 where he says virtually nothing in the second half of the case
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 6:08:01 PM
#55:


"Huh? Hey! You can't just go around saying 'pal' like that! That's MY endearing character trait!"

1-3 so good
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transience
02/22/18 6:11:59 PM
#56:


I don't even think of Winston as the prosecutor of 4-1
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transience
02/22/18 6:12:33 PM
#57:


also he might still have a higher percentage just due to the trial-only aspect

Edgeworth is a complete zero during the 1-2 investigations
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SeabassDebeste
02/22/18 6:17:25 PM
#58:


LeonhartFour posted...
"Huh? Hey! You can't just go around saying 'pal' like that! That's MY endearing character trait!"

maybe the defining investigation moment of the series!
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 6:19:56 PM
#59:


I anticipate von Karma having the highest percentage for a prosecutor because that dude never shuts up in 1-4, and you actually do encounter him during one of the investigation days.

I'm not sure any prosecutor has a large presence during an investigation. Maybe Edgeworth in 2-4?
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SeabassDebeste
02/22/18 6:23:10 PM
#60:


yeah von karma is a good guess. i think the case being relatively brief will allow him to dominate even more - less investigation text he needs to compensate for

edgeworth in 2-4 is also a good pick

if we limited 3-5 to 2 days, i might think godot has a shot, too
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LeonhartFour
02/22/18 6:27:07 PM
#61:


Godot misses the entire first day, so I'm assuming you mean limiting it to just the second day for him. I think 3-5 has too many characters even during the trial days for Godot to net that high of a percentage though. Dahlia dominates such a large portion of that second day.
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SeabassDebeste
02/22/18 6:27:56 PM
#62:


yeah, by "2 days" i meant "day 2"
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 1:39:19 AM
#63:


Maya: Mmm! T-bone steak! That would have hit the spot.
Phoenix: You just had a burger!
Maya: Yeah, but I have a second stomach just for steaks.
Phoenix: (What?!)

Later...

Maya: Nick...I'm hungry!
Phoenix: You just had a burger!
Maya: Yeah, but I have a separate stomach for sweets!
Phoenix: (How many stomachs does this girl have?!)

I love those exchanges because they're the kind you can only get here in 1-3 on their first case together when they still don't know each other that well.
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 2:00:11 AM
#64:


Anyway, done with the first investigation day in 1-3. Since this is our first "traditional" case (since Phoenix didn't have an assistant in 1-2), I was curious how the numbers would look. Phoenix/Maya combined for 75% of the dialogue.
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NeoElfboy
02/23/18 2:11:48 AM
#65:


1-3 so good.

One thing I love about the first game (well, 1-1 through 1-4) is that the relationships between some of the key characters (Phoenix, Maya, Gumshoe, Edgeworth, even Mia really) are actively evolving as the game goes on. In most of the other games, the cast's relationships feel more static. AJ and DD come closest with their combo of new playable character + new detective + new prosecutor + old character in a new role.
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 12:49:58 PM
#66:


uNExprb

the struggle of being the Ace Attorney fan who wants to make sure he gets every single piece of dialogue during an investigation

heightened more than ever by this current project
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SeabassDebeste
02/23/18 1:12:48 PM
#67:


:(

NeoElfboy posted...
One thing I love about the first game (well, 1-1 through 1-4) is that the relationships between some of the key characters (Phoenix, Maya, Gumshoe, Edgeworth, even Mia really) are actively evolving as the game goes on. In most of the other games, the cast's relationships feel more static. AJ and DD come closest with their combo of new playable character + new detective + new prosecutor + old character in a new role.

agreed. and unfortunately, it's really not the same even in AA4/5 since despite the characters being new, they fall under such similar archetypes.
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 1:19:18 PM
#68:


Well, nothing will ever be like PW1 again. That's just the benefit of being the original.
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 1:54:46 PM
#69:


poor Gumshoe

I think that's one of the potential drawbacks of counting uninterrupted dialogue as a single line because he just gave an extremely long overview of the case but it only counts as one line since no one interrupted to ask a question

and I think it's going to be his only line of trial day 1 since he doesn't testify
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 2:05:52 PM
#70:


Oldbag: I...I know that! I wasn't born yesterday!
Judge: No one in this court is accusing you of that.

The Judge has some excellent subtle burns like that in PW1. I mentioned Gumshoe not being able to say "hemoglobins" properly in 1-2, and he finishes it off by saying, "Listen, I'm no expert here," and the Judge follows it up with, "Yes, you've made that clear." So good.
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LeonhartFour
02/23/18 6:17:21 PM
#71:


All right, finished with 1-3 trial day 1. It's neat that you can already kind of see Edgeworth's face turn coming, even on the first day. Once Oldbag drops the bomb that there were other people at the studio and she was told to keep quiet about it, he and Phoenix essentially talk through the details of it together. It's the first time he's civil toward him in any way.
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NeoElfboy
02/23/18 7:08:05 PM
#72:


You're making me want to replay this game again. I don't have time for that right now!

LeonhartFour posted...
Oldbag: I...I know that! I wasn't born yesterday!
Judge: No one in this court is accusing you of that.

The Judge has some excellent subtle burns like that in PW1. I mentioned Gumshoe not being able to say "hemoglobins" properly in 1-2, and he finishes it off by saying, "Listen, I'm no expert here," and the Judge follows it up with, "Yes, you've made that clear." So good.


On the note of characters giving out burns which now feel kinda unexpected based on more recent characterisation, I also love Winston Payne's 'Mr. Butz, what you describe is generally what we mean by "dumped."'
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LeonhartFour
02/24/18 8:01:59 PM
#73:


Going around and re-examining everything after Mia shows up in 1-3 is lots of fun. This is where we learn Charley's name, for instance.
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LeonhartFour
02/24/18 8:33:21 PM
#74:


There are a couple of great moments here. There's one where Phoenix starts to make a joke about Maya, and Mia butts in with, "Hmm? What's that about Maya?" causing him to backpedal quickly.

Then there's a really nice exchange after Phoenix gives Penny the card, and Mia's like, "Doesn't doing good things like that make you feel great?" And Phoenix just goes, "Yeah. Yeah, it does." Dunno what it is, but I've always liked those lines.

also it's amazing that Penny Nichols of all people is the only one to recognize that Maya looks different when channeling Mia
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LeonhartFour
02/24/18 8:48:22 PM
#75:


and if you want to know exactly when Phoenix overtook Edgeworth, it was during 1-3 investigation day 2, which has easily had the most lines of any PW1 segment so far

Maya's already overtaken Gumshoe, too, who had all of one line yet again
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Paratroopa1
02/24/18 8:51:43 PM
#76:


Not realizing that many of Gumshoe's lines would be lumped together as one long line does change my opinion a little on whether or not Gumshoe's going to be ahead of Maya
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LeonhartFour
02/24/18 9:00:07 PM
#77:


well we decided this venture was insane enough without trying to keep track of individual text boxes so we compromised with this

plus I think Gumshoe's role expands starting with 1-4 once he and Phoenix actually become friends
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transience
02/24/18 9:10:17 PM
#78:


team Maya
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LeonhartFour
02/25/18 11:47:52 PM
#79:


Cody: What, Pops? You want me to tell you and the gramps with the beard over there?
Edgeworth: Just..."Mr. Edgeworth" will be fine.
Judge: I prefer "the bearded gentleman" myself.

I love the Judge
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 12:14:15 AM
#80:


oh man time for the exact moment I became an Ace Attorney fan
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 12:23:16 AM
#81:


"Hmm? Eh? What's this all about? Please explain so that I might be shocked along with the rest of the court."

Judge so good
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 12:42:01 AM
#82:


I love the beginning of investigation day 3 if you talk to Maya at the office

since she was channeling Mia the whole time she has no clue about the completely insane developments and Phoenix talks about them like she should know them already (I guess because he doesn't realize yet that Maya can't tell what's going on when she's channeling), causing her to overreact in shock left and right
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 1:23:22 AM
#83:


I like how the only time Dee Vasquez shows any real emotion is when she gets angry at Maya for repeatedly calling what Hammer did an accident. Based on the flashback at the end of the case, she seemed to care for the man Hammer killed. Kinda wish they had explored that a little more. I do like that they left it up in the air as to whether Hammer killed the guy on purpose or not though.
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 1:52:20 AM
#84:


I love all the awkward silences due to Vasquez's terseness.

also I have no idea how to verbalize Phoenix's "Don't '?' me!" line
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 2:17:39 AM
#85:


Judge: Mr. Wright, it appears you have brought about yet another miracle.
Edgeworth: I think not, Your Honor. Will Powers was innocent. That he should be found so is only natural, not a miracle.

Love that exchange. Anyway, I'm almost done with 1-3, so final numbers will be forthcoming soonish.
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LeonhartFour
02/26/18 2:47:46 AM
#86:


Total lines by segment:

3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
E1-4 Middle - 1030
E1-4 End - 979
E1-4 Beginning - 926
1-3 Investigation Day 2 - 661
1-2 Trial Day 1 - 524
1-3 Trial Day 2 - 517
1-3 Investigation Day 1 - 455

1-2 Trial Day 2 - 447
1-3 Trial Day 3 - 403
1-2 Investigation Day 1 - 402
1-2 Investigation Day 2 - 400
1-1 - 389
1-3 Trial Day 1 - 380
1-3 Investigation Day 3 - 325


Total lines by case:

E1-4 - 2935
1-3 - 2741
1-2 - 1773
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
1-1 - 389

Totals lines by game:

PW1 - 4903
AAI1 - 2935
T&T - 2392

Turnabout Samurai (1-3)

1. Phoenix Wright - 1117 (40.75%)
2. Maya Fey - 421 (15.36%)
3. The Judge - 209 (7.62%)
4. Wendy Oldbag - 209 (7.62%)
5. Dee Vasquez - 148 (5.40%)
6. Cody Hackins - 134 (4.89%)
7. Miles Edgeworth - 131 (4.78%)
8. Mia Fey - 85 (3.10%)
9. Penny Nichols - 85 (3.10%)
10. Will Powers - 82 (2.99%)
11. Sal Manella - 57 (2.08%)
12. Dick Gumshoe - 54 (1.97%)
13. Other - 7
14. Jack Hammer - 2

Total lines by character per game:

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney

1. Phoenix Wright - 2064
2. Maya Fey - 565
3. The Judge - 422
4. Miles Edgeworth - 260
5. Wendy Oldbag - 209
6. Mia Fey - 181
7. Redd White - 162
8. Dick Gumshoe - 151
9. Dee Vasquez - 148
10. Cody Hackins - 134
11. April May - 104
12. Penny Nichols - 85
13. Will Powers - 82
14. Marvin Grossberg - 74
15. Frank Sahwit - 58
16. Sal Manella - 57
17. The Bellboy - 52
18. Winston Payne - 44
19. Larry Butz - 29
20. Other - 20
21. Jack Hammer - 2

Most lines per case:

Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 1328
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 1117
Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 812
Mia Fey (3-4) - 436
Mia Fey (3-1) - 396
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 135

Highest percentage of lines per case:

Phoenix Wright (1-2) - 45.80%
Miles Edgeworth (E1-4) - 45.25%
Phoenix Wright (1-3) - 40.75%
Mia Fey (3-4) - 35.59%
Phoenix Wright (1-1) - 34.70%
Mia Fey (3-1) - 33.93%

Testimonies by character:

1. Dahlia Hawthorne - 48 lines/8 testimonies
2. Wendy Oldbag - 29 lines/5 testimonies
3. Dick Gumshoe - 28 lines/5 testimonies
4. Calisto Yew - 21 lines/5 testimonies
5. Redd White - 29 lines/4 testimonies
6. Cody Hackins - 21 lines/3 testimonies
7. Frank Sahwit - 20 lines/3 testimonies
8. Phoenix Wright - 17 lines/3 testimonies
9. Dee Vasquez - 16 lines/2 testimonies
10. April May - 14 lines/2 testimonies
11. Sal Manella - 12 lines/2 testimonies
12. Franziska von Karma - 10 lines/2 testimonies
13. The Judge - 10 lines/2 testimonies
14. Tyrell Badd - 6 lines/1 testimony
15. Terry Fawles - 6 lines/1 testimony
16. The Bellboy - 5 lines/1 testimony

What a difference an assistant makes.
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Paratroopa1
02/26/18 2:51:48 AM
#87:


Oldbag's total number of lines is amazing

So is the total number of lines in the last investigation and trial day
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