Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 162: Aaron Feis

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't like neo-Nazis. It would bring me great pleasure to deck one at a fascist rally, for example.
---

Dancedreamer posted...

I'm fine with spitting on the grave of Billy Graham. When "He wasn't racist at least!" is the best defense you have for the man, it's pretty sad.

He was a misogynistic, homophobic, anti-semitic conman who made his money selling hope to people who couldn't afford it. He lived to be 99 when a lot of more deserving people lived a lot shorter lives. So yeah, I have no problem spitting on his grave. I don't care how not racist he might or might not have been.

you're thinking of Jerry Falwell, fwiw
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I stand by that sentiment.

If you don't feel pleasure in hurting those you don't like, then you are not human.

You do realize this is a mental defect that you have, right
---

Well, Harold Kushner would actually say that a variation of Seph's post is inherently natural in all humans. But even if it's natural, that doesn't mean it should be glorified. An issue with modern society is a lack of empathy on both sides of any issue, and that callousness is only compounded when you add in schadenfreude on top of it all.
---

scarletspeed7 posted...

Define "hurt", because I think everyone is assuming this is a physical abuse stand-in. Like, if this is just about teamkilling in Call of Duty, more power to you.

He is specifically quoted as meaning physical harm.
---

LapisLazuli posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Define "hurt", because I think everyone is assuming this is a physical abuse stand-in. Like, if this is just about teamkilling in Call of Duty, more power to you.

He is specifically quoted as meaning physical harm.

Yeah, can't defend that.
---

well i guess everyone in this topic is non-human except sephy
---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

well i guess everyone in this topic is non-human except sephy

the universal disagreement here is damning evidence that I am completely normal
---

No, like, you literally have a mental defect. That wasn't a joke.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Im just glad the superior Billy Graham survives

Would you say hes the man of the hour?
---

Imagine giving a shit what a psychopath has to say
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

the universal disagreement here is damning evidence that I am completely normal

ok ulti
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I don't like neo-Nazis. It would bring me great pleasure to deck one at a fascist rally, for example.

If theres an actual fascist rally, physically fighting back against a force of people that wishes to bring harm to the community, and is quite capable of it, is self-defense. Self-defense shouldnt be gleeful. Youre doing it out of desperation as any and all diplomacy has failed.

Take the rally out of it and apply this to punching Richard Spenser feels good in the abstract. This invokes our cultural ideas of justice and what that means. It means many things to many people. Many on the left do indeed feel happy when he gets hit; youre right to acknowledge this in this conversation.

I believe the point is to try to recognize WHY we feel that pleasure, and how do we regulate it. Feeling pleasure in the pain of others comes from a place of insecurity. If you feel happy when he gets wrecked, its because you feel on some level that you cant deal with his power running unchecked alone.

Same thing with, say, glee over Milo losing a book deal. It comes from our internalized sense that justice has been served, because we cant personally serve it. Its a vicarious power rush.

So if we can recognize this emotion, and understand what it represents, we can attempt to deal with it appropriately instead of shrugging our shoulders and saying oh well Im just human, get em!

Also make no mistake this is not a human issue, its a cultural issue. There are cultures where this sort of concept just isnt there.
---

TL;DR
We are culturally trained to act like Seph, but wed be foolish to just accept it and not try to be better.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

TL;DR
We are culturally trained to act like Seph, but wed be foolish to just accept it and not try to be better.

some would say culturally trained, others would say biologically trained

which would indeed make my feelings "normal"
---

You conservatives and your total misunderstanding of science, I swear.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

You conservatives and your total misunderstanding of science, I swear.

if you can't anchor it to something then the word "normal" is meaningless

normal does not necessarily mean "right" or "good," if that makes you feel better
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

You conservatives and your total misunderstanding of science, I swear.

if you can't anchor it to something then the word "normal" is meaningless

normal does not necessarily mean "right" or "good," if that makes you feel better

My problem specifically comes with your claim that you arent human if you DONT feel this
---

Right, so why are you focused on "normal" and not focused on "right" or "good"? This is a Politics Topic, not a Behaviorial Sciences Topic. If you want your behavior to be analyzed without judgment, start by knowing your audience.
---

I mean I think this specific example is normal, right, and good
---

I've been in a lot of fights growing up when people tried to push me around, and while I didn't win them all I won a lot of them.

Fighting's not a great feeling, win or lose. I know it can't feel better if it's not self-defense -- I could at least understand the argument of "he punched me first so I knocked him out," though there still a lot of negative feelings to weigh you down even in victory.
---

HaRRicH posted...

Fighting's not a great feeling, win or lose.

I'll actually disagree with this. Stress and pain can release endorphins into your brain, so I think that's why controlled fighting (ie: MMA) exists. It's an outlet to participate in a physical combat that's not necessarily based in violence so much as in competition.
---

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I mean I think this specific example is normal, right, and good

Why?
---

I do want to point out, important to this discussion, is that much of the history of western fiction is built around the ideas Seph is spouting. Take that, villain! Go protagonist go!

Thats why its important to call out these ideas for discussion and dissection. Theres an obvious disconnect between feeling pleasure and causing pain (kinks aside) that needs to be self-analyzed when you realize that youre connecting them.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

I do want to point out, important to this discussion, is that much of the history of western fiction is built around the ideas Seph is spouting. Take that, villain! Go protagonist go!

Thats why its important to call out these ideas for discussion and dissection. Theres an obvious disconnect between feeling pleasure and causing pain (kinks aside) that needs to be self-analyzed when you realize that youre connecting them.

Interesting point. There are, at the source of the character, two Batmen. There's the Frank Miller Batman who starts smiling when he confronts Superman because he knows that, aside from being right and Superman being wrong, he's going to get in a fight. That Batman actually derives pleasure from fighting. And then there's the more traditional Batman. Batman a solitary knight who feels called to protect a city because he believes it's the right thing to do. One of those on the surface is much more noble than the other. One is selfish, the other is purportedly selfless.
---

I feel like Seph would dig a lot of Frank Millers modern work
---

Although I think its funny that we consider the second one there traditional Batman when the earliest Bat stories are very happily murderous
---

http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/111/tec27kane.gif

BatSeph
---

The point about western fiction is a good one.

I'm kinda in the middle of the boat, there. I like to see the hero win, but I don't really like to see the hero beat the hell out of the bad guy or kill them. Like, I'm all for the hero "saving the day," but I'm not necessarily for the hero beating up the bad guy directly.

Maybe that's typically why I tend to like redemption stories where the villain helps at the end.
---

HashtagSEP posted...

The point about western fiction is a good one.

I'm kinda in the middle of the boat, there. I like to see the hero win, but I don't really like to see the hero beat the hell out of the bad guy or kill them. Like, I'm all for the hero "saving the day," but I'm not necessarily for the hero beating up the bad guy directly.

Maybe that's typically why I tend to like redemption stories where the villain helps at the end.

#NotMyBatman
http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/1/0/2/153102.jpg?v=1
---

Jakyl25 posted...

Although I think its funny that we consider the second one there traditional Batman when the earliest Bat stories are very happily murderous

Oh, sure. But even Kane and Finger quickly went in a different direction with the character. By 1940, you had Batman pretty much as we know him. To be fair, the quality of actual writing in Golden Age comics is all over the place, as they were exiting the Pulp Era and moving towards the Atomic Age. You've got Captain America punching Nazis right in the middle of it, too.
---

That said, bringing up superheroes actually made me see a bit of merit in saying it's more normal/acceptable to feel gratification/satisfaction(not actual pleasure) from hurting somebody that greatly wronged you

Like the whole Captain America bit with "Who wants to see me sock Hitler in the jaw?"
---

i feel like fiction is different from reality

i'm willing to wager not many of you have actually punched someone hard in the bone

we're naturally empathic. it doesn't feel good to fight

i can totally understand fantasizing about beating up 100 ninjas or bad bosses or whatever but the actual nitty-gritty reality wouldn't be pleasant
---

HashtagSEP posted...

That said, bringing up superheroes actually made me see a bit of merit in saying it's more normal/acceptable to feel gratification/satisfaction(not actual pleasure) from hurting somebody that greatly wronged you

Like the whole Captain America bit with "Who wants to see me sock Hitler in the jaw?"

Its that justice thing I was talking about. Its importabt to understand WHY that makes you feel satisfied

I went through a ton of this reflection when the nation literally PARTIED when Bin Laden was killed (sorry John Cena, compromised to a permanent end). I get feeling relieved that such a global menace had been stopped, but I didnt get the revelry at all.
---

banananor posted...

i feel like fiction is different from reality

Absolutely

Fiction is for you to live vicariously through these people. It appeals to instincts you aren't able to follow in real life for obvious reasons, ie, killing/hurting everyone who wrongs you is a stupid way of solving your problems

For instance, Austin/McMahon tapped into a cultural late 90s thing of really hating suit-wearing bosses that Fight Club and The Matrix both played into as well. You can't actually start an underground fight club with brad pitt though and you can't go around stunnering your boss and his entire family either. But you kind of want to in a way. It feels good to imagine it, but it's not something you would do because IRL you know that's a ridiculous way of solving your problems and creates more problems than it solves.
---

There's a difference between violence in hatred, violence in justice, and violence in competition. Glad that's been touched on.

And I celebrated when Bin Laden was taken down. Not sure what single person is a better exception for a modern American to make for being happy about one's death than him...just wouldn't want that rule to be bent much further than that.
---

XIII_rocks posted...

you can't go around stunnering your boss and his entire family either.

I remember when TNA did a thing where it was Put Your Boss Through a Table week and they literally wanted you to tweet them about how badly you want to physically injure your boss.

That went well.
---

Let's go back to little kids shows for this one. In the Powerpuff Girls the girls routinely beat up their villains pretty badly. In one episode, however, Buttercup starts doing it even more hunting them down and knocking out their teeth and enjoying the heck out of it. This was portrayed as wrong. So it's not normal, right, or good to enjoy causing pain to people, you literal psycho.

TheRock1525 posted...

So I guess it's ok to "hurt" but being happy a person died of natural causes is just a bridge too far.

But we're the deranged ones, he asserts.
---

TheRock1525 posted...

being happy a person who made anti-semitic remarks died of natural causes is just a bridge too far.

fixed
---

Ok, i laughed.

https://twitter.com/TheLincoln/status/966443180106371072

Tweet includes a screenshot of Trump saying he doesn't want guns in every classroom, then a screenshot of an article about his statements today, where he suggested arming every school teacher.
---

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/734231223002894337

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/966436727559729152

oneforeverything
---

LEAPFROGGd
---

https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/966446159584813056

LOLOLOLOL
---

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/966446159584813056

LOLOLOLOL

I bet he rehearsed those lines

Must be a Soros plant
---

That's like needing to be told to blink or breathe.
---

Like, I get it, empathy is hard for him

But to be reminded to acknowledge that you were listening to people at what is essentially a town hall meeting is a new level
---

I am sort of disturbed that the cuff of his shirt literally says 45.
---

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/966071116447010821

Claiming some of the students on tv after #Parkland are actors is the work of a disgusting group of idiots with no sense of decency

This is the biggest piece of evidence yet that they are actors
---

Eddv posted...

I am sort of disturbed that the cuff of his shirt literally says 45.

Hes just wearing his Best President power ranking on his sleeve
---