Poll of the Day > Is our school system effective?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Recently I saw a girl crying in a hallway (not me I swear) because she was so broken up about her grades. She would be losing a scholarship because she accidentally enrolled in a 400 level course as a junior and wasnt ready, and she stayed in the course idk why.

College and some high schools lead people to study drugs and parties to relieve stress.

Our school system actually pushes people into these dangerous places since high school where they start really grading you and making it really stressful and scaring you with things like being unable to pursue dreams if youre bad at school, or not getting scholarships or not getting into most colleges.

Do you think this way is effective or overall does more harm to students?
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Your example sounds like a first world problem. When I hear about school problems it's NEVER that overachievers weren't able to overachieve, it's always bullying, terrible grades, radical foxnews stuff, radical cnn stuff and statutory
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It reminds me of what churches, religion and other institutions do: Use fear to control people. I suppose it's just human nature, but my advice to a person who's struggling with school is that the opportunities never end, you can always do what you want and learn what you want. Mandatory school is a prison for the young but once you're an adult people stop telling you what to do.

the education system is stuck in a 18th century model in the 21st century

edit: that is to say, the USA and to a lesser degree Canada

Lokarin posted...

Your example sounds like a first world problem. When I hear about school problems it's NEVER that overachievers weren't able to overachieve, it's always bullying, terrible grades, radical foxnews stuff, radical cnn stuff and statutory

Not really over achieving if people are losing scholarships for it
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http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0318-doyle-finnish-schools-20160318-story.html
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BTB posted...

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0318-doyle-finnish-schools-20160318-story.html

Well fuck, that should be a John Oliver segment.
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LittleRoyal posted...

Recently I saw a girl crying in a hallway (not me I swear) because she was so broken up about her grades. She would be losing a scholarship because she accidentally enrolled in a 400 level course as a junior and wasnt ready, and she stayed in the course idk why.

College and some high schools lead people to study drugs and parties to relieve stress.

Our school system actually pushes people into these dangerous places since high school where they start really grading you and making it really stressful and scaring you with things like being unable to pursue dreams if youre bad at school, or not getting scholarships or not getting into most colleges.

Do you think this way is effective or overall does more harm to students?

Yes it is ineffective but not because of this.

So in your opinion something other than grading is whats up wrong with the school system?

Idk. I think letting things go by numbers to dictate our education is flawed.

My parents could be stereotypical, my dad wanting me so badly to be a doctor and getting mad if I didnt get As.

I felt pressured to memorize buzz words and learn how to impress teachers and sit in their rooms during lunch once in a while so theyd like me etc.

In college I still spend time in office hours and chat with professors.

I study and try to actually learn too, but this became a huge part of the game for me
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Depends on what you're talking about. The current system is better than nothing but, at the same time, it doesn't do much to prepare students for life, the standard of education is relatively low, knowledge retention is abysmal,

That said, every English-speaking nation in the world is current graduating students who, among other things, confuse "it's" and "its", "you're" and "your", and other relatively basic things which *should* have been corrected in elementary/primary.

LittleRoyal posted...

Recently I saw a girl crying in a hallway (not me I swear) because she was so broken up about her grades. She would be losing a scholarship because she accidentally enrolled in a 400 level course as a junior and wasnt ready, and she stayed in the course idk why.

College and some high schools lead people to study drugs and parties to relieve stress.

Our school system actually pushes people into these dangerous places since high school where they start really grading you and making it really stressful and scaring you with things like being unable to pursue dreams if youre bad at school, or not getting scholarships or not getting into most colleges.

Do you think this way is effective or overall does more harm to students?

In addition to being anecdotal, your complaints are silly. The girl was performing at a higher level than most students. If more students had her attitude, the country would be better off for it.

More importantly, you're graded in middle school and, iirc, elementary as well. Grades are important and, because there only a certain number of top slots, competition is going to be fierce later on. That can't be helped under any system.

BTB posted...

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0318-doyle-finnish-schools-20160318-story.html

The problem with anything related to Finland is, iirc, that they teach much closer to the tests used for international standards. Effectively it's teaching to the test on a higher level. And, while standardized tests are often criticized, arbitrary standards meant that students could graduate with honors in some districts yet be fundamentally deficient.
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I told my story because its an example and its what got me thinking about it so it being anecdotal isnt a fair criticism. I set it up to be anecdotal.

Are you saying you dont believe it happened? Thats ludicrous even if you dont believe me, you cant actually think people dont get stressed that badly over grades.

We grade based on testing when sometimes (usually) its not perfectly correlated (testing versus real application)
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I believe your story, I just think there are other problems that should come first.
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It's not at all effective. School hardly prepares you for 'real' life. We need mandatory courses on things like how to search for apartments/housing, how to write a balanced CV, how to set yourself up financially etc. I would also like to see mandatory sociology/politics classes included so students have a proper understanding of the way society operates before being thrust into the adult world.
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LittleRoyal posted...

I told my story because its an example and its what got me thinking about it so it being anecdotal isnt a fair criticism. I set it up to be anecdotal.

Are you saying you dont believe it happened? Thats ludicrous even if you dont believe me, you cant actually think people dont get stressed that badly over grades.

We grade based on testing when sometimes (usually) its not perfectly correlated (testing versus real application)

I'm saying your story is anecdotal and thus can't be used to claim a larger problem in the system, particularly given the weird conclusions you're drawing and -- more importantly -- given that your highlighted student was atypical. Within any given high school in the USA, you're more likely to run into students who think Mussolini is a pasta dish so the idea that kids might be studying too hard and taking things too seriously is a little absurd.

More importantly, since you brought up study pills, I have to post the obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bflYjF90t7c
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Ehh shes not that atypical imo~ I feel bad she doesnt need this level of pain and stress probably I even got her number so we can talk and help her calm down
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Lokarin posted...

Your example sounds like a first world problem. When I hear about school problems it's NEVER that overachievers weren't able to overachieve, it's always bullying, terrible grades, radical foxnews stuff, radical cnn stuff and statutory

I think you're underestimating how damaging stress is on a young mind. Many people never recover from a stressful upbringing. Your brain regulates itself during that period to best adapt to that environment, and if everything is a constant threat then your brain begins hacking itself up to find a solution.

A lot of research is turning up which says that stress during childhood is strongly related to the sharp increases in ADHD, Anxiety, and Depression diagnoses we're seeing. They're like maladaptations of the brain, in order to cope with the immense demands we place on it. Eventually it starts specializing at schooling (rapidly swapping tasks, dismissing information shortly after learning it, dissociating from the constant boring situations, avoiding contemplation of the future, etc) instead of life, because adapting is what young brains do.

Truth be told, the symptoms of starting school a year earlier than normal are pretty similar to the symptoms of childhood trauma.
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Overall I feel it isn't just the schooling system itself but the mentality that some students go through school with and unfortunately a lot of that probably depends on the parents.
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Zeus posted...

The problem with anything related to Finland is, iirc, that they teach much closer to the tests used for international standards. Effectively it's teaching to the test on a higher level. And, while standardized tests are often criticized, arbitrary standards meant that students could graduate with honors in some districts yet be fundamentally deficient.

And the problem with us is that we are using an education system that's about 150 years out of date, are effectively teaching children to hate learning, and we think that schools (just like fucking everything else) are just a way to try and make money.
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I think there are plenty of problems with the school system, but overall the main problem is the parents. They really aren't spending enough time helping their kids and building a foundation so that when they get to high school and beyond they have the tools to self-learn and succeed.

I also think we should probably start teaching kids earlier, like say around 2 years old. Not saying 2 year old kids should be spending 3 - 6 hours in a classroom, but just having them learn some basic math or a second language at that age would go a long way towards long term development.
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I don't think its a good system at all. Not only what they teach, but how they teach it.