Poll of the Day > McDonald's and Visa show you how to budget to live on minimum wage

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Dynalo
07/20/17 1:37:12 PM
#1:


http://dailyoftheday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Screen-shot-2013-07-15-at-9.29.08-AM.png

You just need two jobs, for a combined total of over 70 hours a week of work and you can't ever have heat, so don't live somewhere cold.

I'm not sure what they were hoping to prove here.
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Muffinz0rz
07/20/17 1:42:42 PM
#2:


They also assume you'll find $20/month health insurance
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Jen0125
07/20/17 1:43:46 PM
#3:


and somehow you need to find a $600/month place to buy or rent... which is pretty much a studio

and if you have a family that's not going to work
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RCtheWSBC
07/20/17 1:44:22 PM
#4:


$600 housing costs... Either this example lives in Mississippi (where the median housing costs are $681) or they have roommates

Also, is this person not eating? I guess they left out budgeting for food and assumed it falls under "spending money. "
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Dynalo
07/20/17 1:44:24 PM
#5:


I thought about commenting on the health insurance thing as $20 seemed very low... But not American so I don't actually know how much it goes for.

Even the rent of $600/month is insanely low depending on the area you live in, even if you're splitting the rent with someone else.
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Dynalo
07/20/17 1:45:59 PM
#6:


Also, I assume food falls under "other"? I like food and think it's a necessity, but clearly I'm budgeting wrong.
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RCtheWSBC
07/20/17 1:47:33 PM
#7:


Dynalo posted...
Also, I assume food falls under "other"? I like food and think it's a necessity, but clearly I'm budgeting wrong.

lol for sure. Food takes up a significant portion of anyone's spending. Hell, the current US poverty thresholds were developed via estimates of a monthly food budget!
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wolfy42
07/20/17 1:48:56 PM
#8:


Lol.....you can't rent a room for that much in most cities.

20$ for health insurance? If you have it free, and actually take any pills at all, that wouldn't cover your co-pays on your medicine. How do you get health insurance for $20?

Notice no mention of any kind of food etc, I guess thats part of the spending money, along with gas (hopefully you don't commute at all), water/sewage (as much as electric generally), general supplies (paper towels/toilet paper/cleaning supplies etc).

That being said, you could sort of make it work, by renting a room (usually can get one for around that price) that includes utilities already. Don't own a car (no car payment, no gas, no insurance) and walk to work (somewhere nearby since it's freaking minimum wage, there is a mc donalds in walking distance of most places).

You would not need a second job either in such a case, you could probably survive on just the mc donalds job if they actually gave you 40 hours a week (don't think they usually do though).

The current Fed min wage is 7.25 per hour. Say 7$ if you claim excempt on taxes (you still have SS taken out etc..so it's a bit less then that).

40 hours a week would be about 250$ after deductions...or 1k a month at minimum wage.

If you can find a room to rent for $600 amonth that includes utilities (and internet/tv hopefully), you could have $400 left over per month for everything else (Food/travel etc). You could live on it, barely, but you'd almost be better off in prison tbh, you get 3 meals there (not great but probably not much worse then you would be making yourself on $200 or less a month for food), you have TV to watch, books to read, and you don't work a 40 hour job (they do have jobs you can do, but you don't work 40 hours).

Nobody really wants to go to prison, it just might be better then living off min wage while working for mc donalds.
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wolfy42
07/20/17 1:53:18 PM
#9:


Btw, the income listed is for more then 80 hours a week, not 70.

40 hours a week nets (After taxes and that is what they are counting), less then $250. So the first income they have is 105$ more then that (over 10 more hours), so 50 hours for the first job and 40 for the second.

So that is a 90 hour work week at minimum wage heh.

Might as well be china and just have 12 hour days 7 days a week, with 12 hour rest periods on thejob with a cot you share with 3 other people at that point.

90 hour work week means your averaging more then 12 hours per day 7 days a week btw (7+12=84 hours). You would literally be working more then most labor camps require lol.
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Jen0125
07/20/17 1:53:25 PM
#10:


yeah my health insurance is $158 a month for just me and it's subsidized by my company. are they assuming that their employees are so low income they'll be eligible for medicaid or other state sponsored low income health care?
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Cacciato
07/20/17 1:55:30 PM
#11:


My healthcare is cheap as fuck and pretty good and it's still 18 bucks a paycheck.
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Jen0125
07/20/17 1:57:14 PM
#12:


Cacciato posted...
My healthcare is cheap as fuck and pretty good and it's still 18 bucks a paycheck.


don't you get government sponsored health care still since you're a veteran? i don't think your price is the norm.
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#13
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PK_Spam
07/20/17 1:59:07 PM
#14:


There's absolutely no way that's real. Otherwise, they must've KNOWN people would take it as a middle finger to employees.
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:00:51 PM
#15:


Jen0125 posted...
yeah my health insurance is $158 a month for just me and it's subsidized by my company. are they assuming that their employees are so low income they'll be eligible for medicaid or other state sponsored low income health care?



I don't know how it is everywhere, but trying to get subsidized health care for my wife was impossible until we had literally no money or income. If you have 2000$ income per month (by working 90 hours lol), you would not qualify for any finacial help with your health care in Washington at least.

If I remember the cut off was $1400 a month income or over a certain amount in assets (either disqualifies you). If you are under that you can qualify for medicare/caid (forget the name) but, you still have to pay for a portion of your pills/doctors visits etc. I believe you pay for 20% of the first small amount and the gov pays for 80% then you hit somethign called a donut hole..where you pay 80% and they pay 20% for like the next $6k in costs (so you shell out $4800 basically), then they cover all but 5% after that.

May differ from place to place, but if you actually need health care (And when your making that much that is the only reason you'd get it), your gonna be paying more then $20 a month just in co-pays, even if you could get it for free.
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TheCyborgNinja
07/20/17 2:01:45 PM
#16:


I don't understand how America ended up here...

Nobody listened to Eisenhower.
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FrozenBananas
07/20/17 2:01:58 PM
#17:


Rent is only 600 a month?...
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:02:56 PM
#18:


Delicinq4 posted...
The best way to avoid this is to get a certification/diploma/degree and not make minimum wage.

Minimum wage is for teenagers and college students. You are not supposed to make a living off of them. What happened to ambition???

I got 80k straight out of uni and I didnt even have amazing grades. After 1 year my loans were paid off and I was a debt free man making bank. I am not special at all, anyone in North America can do this. Just don't pick a terrible major and somewhat apply yourself.


Over 50% of employed people in the US make near minimum wage (for their region, not fed minimum wage).

A huge portion of jobs pay either minimum wage, or within a few dollars of minimum wage, including many skilled jobs, and sadly until recently at least, teachers would often start at near min wage for the first 5 years as well (bachelors degree minimum), so it's not just high school dropouts that make it.
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#19
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313800
07/20/17 2:05:04 PM
#20:


$150 for car payments ?

$100 for cable/phone ?

what exactly are car payments if car insurance is listed separately ?

cable isnt a need and you shouldnt need to spend much on a phone contract either.
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:05:38 PM
#21:


According to fortune it's 42.4% of all workers, and 48.6% of female workers btw.

So yeah, not just teens and college students.
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:10:37 PM
#22:


Delicinq4 posted...
wolfy42 posted...
Delicinq4 posted...
The best way to avoid this is to get a certification/diploma/degree and not make minimum wage.

Minimum wage is for teenagers and college students. You are not supposed to make a living off of them. What happened to ambition???

I got 80k straight out of uni and I didnt even have amazing grades. After 1 year my loans were paid off and I was a debt free man making bank. I am not special at all, anyone in North America can do this. Just don't pick a terrible major and somewhat apply yourself.


Over 50% of employed people in the US make near minimum wage (for their region, not fed minimum wage).

A huge portion of jobs pay either minimum wage, or within a few dollars of minimum wage, including many skilled jobs, and sadly until recently at least, teachers would often start at near min wage for the first 5 years as well (bachelors degree minimum), so it's not just high school dropouts that make it.



And Im saying if you DONT want to make minimum wage, then do what I said in my post. You dont need to have your fate decided for you.



Somebody has to work those jobs, there is competition for jobs that pay more, and it's a employers market (more people looking for them already then jobs available). In other words, the jobs are filled or being filled, and there is 42% of americans that can't get them, and must work jobs that pay near minimum wage.

That is how it works in our country. If 20% of the remaining Americans suddenly got college degrees, no new jobs would just appear for them, it would just make more competition for the jobs already available, and more people over qualified working minimum wage jobs.

Considering so many already have student loans WHILE working a miimum wage (or sub 15$ an hour) job, including 3 people I actually know lol.....and my aunt for awhile for that matter.

If half of your jobs pay near minimum wage, then half of the workers are going to get paid that much, and it then becomes a wage that you need to live on, even as an adult without any other support.
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#23
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Jen0125
07/20/17 2:11:16 PM
#24:


Delicinq4 posted...
-Most Trades
-Engineering (mech/chem/electrical/civil)
-Accounting
-Finance
-Economics
-IT
-CompSci
-Some sciences (Biology isnt a money maker but its not the worst).


these jobs are not unlimited.

there is a demand and need for these jobs that don't require actual skills like minimum wage jobs. not everyone is "smart" enough to go to college to pursue these jobs or that education. not everyone is able to secure loans or enough financial aid.
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RCtheWSBC
07/20/17 2:11:37 PM
#25:


wolfy42 posted...
According to fortune it's 42.4% of all workers, and 48.6% of female workers btw.

So yeah, not just teens and college students.

In 2016, 79.9 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.7 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 701,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.5 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 2.2 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 2.7 percent of all hourly paid workers.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2016/home.htm

And nowhere in the history of minimum wage laws in the US dictate them covering teens and students only: https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/coverage.htm
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:12:32 PM
#26:


313800 posted...
$150 for car payments ?

$100 for cable/phone ?

what exactly are car payments if car insurance is listed separately ?

cable isnt a need and you shouldnt need to spend much on a phone contract either.


Think it listed as cable and internet and internet is considered a need at this point (I kinda agree). Car payments would probably mean either leasing a car, paying off a loan to get a car, or transportation costs (bus/bart etc). Could also include gas on a car you own, and repairs for a crappy old car you bought for $1000 orsomething...it's resonable to spend thatmuch to have a car per month or for transportation otherwise.
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#27
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TheCyborgNinja
07/20/17 2:13:14 PM
#28:


Wages not keeping pace with inflation has only benefitted the 1% and their 900% increase in bonuses. You reap what you sow though, so it wouldn't surprise me to see a bloody coup within my lifetime. People still have something to lose though.
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SkynyrdRocker
07/20/17 2:13:51 PM
#29:


Step one: grab bootstraps
Step two: pull
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#30
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lihlih
07/20/17 2:16:43 PM
#31:


Delicinq4 posted...
wolfy42 posted...
According to fortune it's 42.4% of all workers, and 48.6% of female workers btw.

So yeah, not just teens and college students.


Im aware of the reality. Im saying that any adult who works minimum wage as their sole job is an ambitionless drain on society. It is only acceptable for teens and college students. I could also accept stay at home mothers and retirees as an answer.


So... The mentally and physically handicapped shouldn't be able to support themselves because they're "ambitionless drain on society"? What about people like EMTs who make 10 bucks an hour in places that need people to make way more? What, let's get rid of EMTs and let dying people just get to the hospital on their own?
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:18:07 PM
#32:


RCtheWSBC posted...
wolfy42 posted...
According to fortune it's 42.4% of all workers, and 48.6% of female workers btw.

So yeah, not just teens and college students.

In 2016, 79.9 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.7 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 701,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.5 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 2.2 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 2.7 percent of all hourly paid workers.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2016/home.htm

And nowhere in the history of minimum wage laws in the US dictate them covering teens and students only: https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/coverage.htm


I said minimum wage in the area, and the actual statistics are for those making under $15 an hour I believe (42.8% of americans make under $15 an hour which was proposed as the new minimum wage).

Teachers for instance can fall into that category if they make $25k or less per year (although technically they don't work for almost 3 months between summer/vacations, so that would probably bump them over).

In some places where the min wage recently increased, this has actually boosted the number of people making within a dollar of min wage drastically. I live in olympia WA where it jumped up to $11 all at once (2$ an hour) and now tons of "skilled" positions like home health aids, CPAs etc all are making within a $1 of min wage (Even when you need to be licensed, have schooling/training etc for the positions).

Point is, min wage or close is paid for many skilled or semi-skilled positions right now, and certainly not jobs you would want a teenager to have.
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Jen0125
07/20/17 2:18:07 PM
#33:


Delicinq4 posted...


Yeah they are not unlimited, but not unattainable either. But to say that you have a 50% chance of working minimum wage is ridiculous. You can make choices to increase your wage. Such as the ones I listed above. If you have any of those degrees, and you actually apply yourself, there is a 99.9% chance you can get an above minimuk wage job.

I swear some people dont understand ambition. Its a problem but we dont need to encourage people to accept minimum wage.


no one said they're unattainable. they obviously aren't as millions of people work them. but if literally every adult aged 18-retirement age was educated in those fields you'd have a really serious job market issue. they aren't unlimited and acting like everyone after their teenage years should funnel into those fields is pretty silly.
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#34
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RCtheWSBC
07/20/17 2:18:55 PM
#35:


Delicinq4 posted...
I swear some people dont understand ambition. Its a problem but we dont need to encourage people to accept minimum wage.

I don't think people here are arguing against personal drive and ambition. I wouldn't have my job and credentials if I weren't motivated to work towards them. But as you've acknowledged, there are both micro and macro-level effects that interact and need to be considered when it comes to economic policy. It isn't one or the other, and there certainly isn't one grand solution to addressing these and relevant issues.
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#36
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Jen0125
07/20/17 2:21:13 PM
#37:


Delicinq4 posted...


I don't disagree with this post at all. I was just offering advice on a personal level for people who want to get ahead of the curve and make a livable career that isnt on minimum wage.

My advice only works because not everyone follows it.


lmfao

okay. well then what are you even talking about? you're saying it's not hard for everyone over the age of 18 to go to school and get a job in those careers after getting a college education (which is false, but whatever) but this advice only works if not everyone does it.

okay.
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shadowsword87
07/20/17 2:22:37 PM
#38:


Delicinq4 posted...
Yes on a macro level that is an issue, but on a micro level, person to person, you have no reason not to educate yourself and be better than the other half. You dont have to, as a 15-24~ year old, sit there and think 'welp, this is my life'.


How to not be poor:
Step 1, spend money
Step 2, wait and hope you are smart enough
Step 3, hope the market falls in your favor
Step 4, congrats! You're not poor.
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#39
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lihlih
07/20/17 2:25:29 PM
#40:


Delicinq4 posted...
lihlih posted...
Delicinq4 posted...
wolfy42 posted...
According to fortune it's 42.4% of all workers, and 48.6% of female workers btw.

So yeah, not just teens and college students.


Im aware of the reality. Im saying that any adult who works minimum wage as their sole job is an ambitionless drain on society. It is only acceptable for teens and college students. I could also accept stay at home mothers and retirees as an answer.


So... The mentally and physically handicapped shouldn't be able to support themselves because they're "ambitionless drain on society"? What about people like EMTs who make 10 bucks an hour in places that need people to make way more? What, let's get rid of EMTs and let dying people just get to the hospital on their own?


Well Im not talking about mentally ill people or handicapped people lmao. Wtf? Im talking about regular people. Those people should be on seperate government programs to support themselves (which I know isnt much, I do think the govt should increase funding for that).


Well, those people often can only work minimum wage jobs. Also, their government assistance goes away once they get a full time job(depending on their severity, part time jobs also gets rid of the benefits as well). So by saying that minimum wage shouldn't go up, you're saying that the mentally and physically handicapped people shouldn't be able to support themselves.
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#42
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lihlih
07/20/17 2:28:21 PM
#43:


Delicinq4 posted...
lihlih posted...
Delicinq4 posted...
lihlih posted...
Delicinq4 posted...
wolfy42 posted...
According to fortune it's 42.4% of all workers, and 48.6% of female workers btw.

So yeah, not just teens and college students.


Im aware of the reality. Im saying that any adult who works minimum wage as their sole job is an ambitionless drain on society. It is only acceptable for teens and college students. I could also accept stay at home mothers and retirees as an answer.


So... The mentally and physically handicapped shouldn't be able to support themselves because they're "ambitionless drain on society"? What about people like EMTs who make 10 bucks an hour in places that need people to make way more? What, let's get rid of EMTs and let dying people just get to the hospital on their own?


Well Im not talking about mentally ill people or handicapped people lmao. Wtf? Im talking about regular people. Those people should be on seperate government programs to support themselves (which I know isnt much, I do think the govt should increase funding for that).


Well, those people often can only work minimum wage jobs. Also, their government assistance goes away once they get a full time job(depending on their severity, part time jobs also gets rid of the benefits as well). So by saying that minimum wage shouldn't go up, you're saying that the mentally and physically handicapped people shouldn't be able to support themselves.


Bringing up mentally ill and handicapped people is dishonest to this discussion. They are a separate case and should be treated as such. Im talking about regular people.


Well, the subject matter at hand directly affects them, so why not bring them up? It's people like you that are screwing over deficient people that are trying to make a decent life for themselves.
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:28:44 PM
#44:


Delicinq4 posted...
Jen0125 posted...
Delicinq4 posted...
-Most Trades
-Engineering (mech/chem/electrical/civil)
-Accounting
-Finance
-Economics
-IT
-CompSci
-Some sciences (Biology isnt a money maker but its not the worst).


these jobs are not unlimited.

there is a demand and need for these jobs that don't require actual skills like minimum wage jobs. not everyone is "smart" enough to go to college to pursue these jobs or that education. not everyone is able to secure loans or enough financial aid.


Yeah they are not unlimited, but not unattainable either. But to say that you have a 50% chance of working minimum wage is ridiculous. You can make choices to increase your wage. Such as the ones I listed above. If you have any of those degrees, and you actually apply yourself, there is a 99.9% chance you can get an above minimuk wage job.

I swear some people dont understand ambition. Its a problem but we dont need to encourage people to accept minimum wage.


I agree that anyone with ambition can make more, and get a better job etc. That being said, there are also a ton of jobs out there not being counted that are under the table, and actually make LESS then minimum wage.

Baby sitters for instance (Nanny) often makes less, most yard workers do as well, and tons of other similar positions. If it can be done under the table, it probably is, and the people doing it probably make less then minimum wage.

On a personal level I agree with you, if your not super lazy or a below average intelligence, you can make more then minimum wage. The thing you need to remember is that average intelligence isn't that high, and your average person isn't that motivated. That is why motivated people succeed, because there are lots of other people out there not as motivated as them heh.

If EVERYONE was as motivated, then it would be a total crap shoot when applying for any position, there are only so many jobs, and there are WAY more people who are not working right now, or working in menial/non-skilled positions then there are people in skilled positions.

If EVERYONE tried to work in the skilled positions and became qualified for them, we would not have nearly enough jobs. As it is, even right now we have tons of people who end up in jobs they are way over-qualified for, and people with BA degrees working at trader joes etc.

They are not all lazy or unmotivated, and many of them only do it for a short term. My aunt for instance owned Amiable Travel and made over 1 mill a year profit with it, only to lose it (and all profits) because my uncle didn't pay taxes and the IRS went after them. She ended up working for Trader joes for 2 years, then got a job working as a concierge (sp), and finally ended up with a good job working for another travel agency (running it). It took time for her to get back on her feet and get a decent job again though.

Things happen, people end up not getting jobs they are qualified for, and sometimes this happens right after getting a degree, so you have student loans and those start to pile up (taxes/penalties etc). I know one person with like 200k in student loans after 30 years (even while paying the minimum on them). She consolidated them a few times and got deferments and that let them add the interest accrued to the principle each time (She did not realize this obviously), until her initial 80k in student loans is/was almsot 200k.

Obviously that doesn't happen to everyone, but yeah, you can't just say anyone who doesn't want to work a $15 or under job, doesn't have to.
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RCtheWSBC
07/20/17 2:28:56 PM
#45:


Delicinq4 posted...
Bringing up mentally ill and handicapped people is dishonest to this discussion.

I don't see why it is. They're adult workers and in some circumstances are able to and need to work.
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MasterSword546
07/20/17 2:31:08 PM
#46:


$2000 a month working two jobs...? I work 20ish hours a week with one job and make more than that. What a stupid thing.
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#47
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Muffinz0rz
07/20/17 2:34:30 PM
#48:


Dleicniq4 (spelling?) how old are you
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lihlih
07/20/17 2:35:34 PM
#49:


Delicinq4 posted...
RCtheWSBC posted...
Delicinq4 posted...
Bringing up mentally ill and handicapped people is dishonest to this discussion.

I don't see why it is. They're adult workers and in some circumstances are able to and need to work.


Because they dont even have the opportuntiy to make choices to increase their wage. The government should be making their lives easier and giving them the minimum livable salary + 10%.


So... You're against raising the minimum wage to a livable salary for some reason, but for giving hand out to people that can and are willing to work? What's with your logic?
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wolfy42
07/20/17 2:39:34 PM
#50:


MasterSword546 posted...
$2000 a month working two jobs...? I work 20ish hours a week with one job and make more than that. What a stupid thing.


I don't agree with just boosting min wage (you need to boost all wages, not just min wages, or you end up making more people get min wage), but I do think needing to work 80+ hours to just rent a 1 bedroom apartment and eat (nothing else) on min wage, when MANY jobs pay min wage or close, is wrong.

Consider all the places you go in a week. Maybe you go to a few fast food joints, maybe you go to a few sit down resteraunts(olive garden say and...red robin), you might go to the mall and buy some stuff there, and you go to a movie theater for a nice movie. You go to a grocery store and you fill your car up with gas a few times.

Every single one of those places pays their employees minimum wage or close. All those people you interact with....are making under $15 an hour. Yeah, your waitress may makemore due to tips, but the base pay she gets, is min wage (at most, many places pay like $2 an hour and expect tips to make up the rest).

Do you have gardeners working on your lawn etc? They make at most min wage, and probably less (even if you hire someone and pay them more, the workers THEY hire are probably making less then min wage...and probably don't speak English either).

Same with house cleaners, I've hired from many services over the years and have had about 3 that sent people who spoke fluent English.

So yeah, other then at your work, you probably interact with far more people a week that make less then $15 an hour, then people who make more.
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