Current Events > Stanford Medicine - Two minds: The cognitive differences between men and women.

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MutantJohn
07/22/17 2:30:57 PM
#52:


Well, do consider that there are men who make their livings dealing with feelings and vocalization while there are also women engineers.

The real takeaway should be, due to certain brain structures men and women may have different probabilities of mental illnesses but to generalize about how the majority of the physical differences manifest is where I begin to question things.

More often than not, we take relatively small sample sizes (even 5,000 samples is small compared to the true metric, the global population) and then extrapolate from there. People don't take this with the grain of salt that they usually should.

The last line of the article summed it up, the biological effects are greater than 0 and the sociological effects are greater than 0. As of now, it's an indeterminate mixture.
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COVxy
07/22/17 7:15:19 PM
#53:


MutantJohn posted...

More often than not, we take relatively small sample sizes (even 5,000 samples is small compared to the true metric, the global population) and then extrapolate from there. People don't take this with the grain of salt that they usually should.


I mean, this is the entire point of sampling. Assuming random sampling, which I agree is actually rare (in its true form), then generalizing to the entire population is entirely appropriate.
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MutantJohn
07/23/17 3:49:28 PM
#54:


This is why bio isn't a real science.
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COVxy
07/23/17 4:37:59 PM
#55:


MutantJohn posted...
This is why bio isn't a real science.


Lmao. I don't think you understand much about "science" then.
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creativerealms
07/23/17 4:43:50 PM
#56:


Callixtus posted...
Someone tell the radical feminists

Radical feminists are about woman being better.
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The Deadpool
07/23/17 4:48:57 PM
#57:


http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2835430/

Remember how mad everyone was at that show?

No? Me neither...
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weapon_d00d816
07/23/17 4:57:37 PM
#58:


Esrac posted...
[women] are more adept at retrieving information from long-term memory.

Oh we know, RIGHT FELLAS HAHA

I AM ROMANTICALLY EXPERIENCED
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Esrac
07/23/17 5:05:07 PM
#59:


weapon_d00d816 posted...
Esrac posted...
[women] are more adept at retrieving information from long-term memory.

Oh we know, RIGHT FELLAS HAHA

I AM ROMANTICALLY EXPERIENCED


I was tempted to make a jokes about that, since a common stereotype is women pulling out some bullshiy during an argument that men have let go years ago.
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scar the 1
07/24/17 1:12:56 AM
#60:


COVxy posted...
The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.
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billcom6
07/26/17 5:16:32 AM
#62:


This is based on sex, not gender, as far as I can tell.
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GiftedACIII
07/28/17 12:07:17 AM
#63:


scar the 1 posted...
COVxy posted...
The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.

You're talking about gender roles. Those are social constructs that exist on top of biological differences. Gender itself is more biological.
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Samurontai
07/28/17 12:13:19 AM
#64:


billcom6 posted...
This is based on sex, not gender, as far as I can tell.

That is correct
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scar the 1
07/28/17 9:10:59 AM
#65:


GiftedACIII posted...
scar the 1 posted...
COVxy posted...
The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.

You're talking about gender roles. Those are social constructs that exist on top of biological differences. Gender itself is more biological.

What you call gender role, a radfem will call gender. What you say is biological, they will call sex. It's just vocabulary.
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GiftedACIII
07/30/17 1:30:53 AM
#66:


scar the 1 posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
scar the 1 posted...
COVxy posted...
The notion of purely socially constructed gender differences seems to be an old one with deep roots in radical feminism and its influences on sociology. I think the notion is fading, even amongst scholars in the area. It's probably higher than it should be, but still.

Even radical feminists have no issues accepting biological differences between sexes. What they're talking about when they're talking about gender is still social constructs that very well exist on top of biological differences.

You're talking about gender roles. Those are social constructs that exist on top of biological differences. Gender itself is more biological.

What you call gender role, a radfem will call gender. What you say is biological, they will call sex. It's just vocabulary.

And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.
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scar the 1
07/30/17 7:53:50 AM
#67:


GiftedACIII posted...
And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.
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#68
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scar the 1
07/30/17 4:41:34 PM
#69:


shockthemonkey posted...
Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues.

And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as f***.

"Not all radfems". Really though, I know there are awful transmisogynist radfems out there, but I've also sen radfems make a very clear distinction between gender as the social constructs created by patriarchy and gender identity being whatever the hell you identify as within that taxonomy.
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#70
Post #70 was unavailable or deleted.
Esrac
07/30/17 8:30:50 PM
#71:


shockthemonkey posted...
scar the 1 posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

Radical feminists helped popularize the idea that trans people aren't really trans, and trans-exclusion is a huge problem with a lot of feminist groups and ideologues.

And yes, when they decide that they're going to use dishonest terms to push a dishonest agenda, they're being stupid as fuck.


Do you mean not really trans or not really women?
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#72
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scar the 1
07/31/17 1:51:26 AM
#73:


I have no love for TERFs, but I also have no love for trans women throwing around the TERF epithet any time a woman tries to talk about the patriarchy. I'm acquainted with one of the latter and that's quite annoying.
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GiftedACIII
08/01/17 11:53:01 PM
#74:


scar the 1 posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

That's a dumb deflection. Their vocabulary is wrong because it's illogical, which I just explained. Abortion isn't child murder just because it is in a pro-lifer's "vocabulary". Covfefe isn't a word even if Trump's administration wants to pretend it's part of their "vocabulary".
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scar the 1
08/02/17 4:24:34 AM
#75:


GiftedACIII posted...
scar the 1 posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

That's a dumb deflection. Their vocabulary is wrong because it's illogical, which I just explained. Abortion isn't child murder just because it is in a pro-lifer's "vocabulary". Covfefe isn't a word even if Trump's administration wants to pretend it's part of their "vocabulary".

No, but the vocabulary of radfems comes from a pretty well explored feminist theory. You might not like or agree with it, but it's not the same as a lobby or a typo. It's a reference frame used by many different actual scholars to refer to the same phenomenon. Surely you can see the distinction from political sensationalism (abortion example) and that.
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GiftedACIII
08/03/17 8:02:18 PM
#76:


scar the 1 posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
scar the 1 posted...
GiftedACIII posted...
And that's why radfems are idiots. Gender roles are gender stereotypes. For there to be roles and stereotypes of something, that something has to exist separate from them.

They're idiots because you don't understand and/or agree with their vocabulary? Pleasing you sounds fickle.

That's a dumb deflection. Their vocabulary is wrong because it's illogical, which I just explained. Abortion isn't child murder just because it is in a pro-lifer's "vocabulary". Covfefe isn't a word even if Trump's administration wants to pretend it's part of their "vocabulary".

No, but the vocabulary of radfems comes from a pretty well explored feminist theory. You might not like or agree with it, but it's not the same as a lobby or a typo. It's a reference frame used by many different actual scholars to refer to the same phenomenon. Surely you can see the distinction from political sensationalism (abortion example) and that.

The vocabulary of radfems are neither well explored nor up to date. It's why they're called radfems. It is barely any different than the pro-life lobby and political sensationalism. The reference frames were made before the neurological and cognitive differences were common knowledge and is merely a theory with the absence of that knowledge. There are scholars who used to say homosexuality was a mental illness too.
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scar the 1
08/04/17 3:01:10 AM
#77:


That's a bold claim to make about feminist theory. I'm almost willing to bet two cents that you haven't read very much of it in the first place.
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The Admiral
08/04/17 3:09:01 AM
#78:


A Liberal's Guide to Whether Gender is Biological or a Social Construct

> Are we discussing transgenders?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing gender roles?
Gender is a social construct.

> Are we discussing a feminist issue?
Gender is a social construct

> Are we discussing rape culture?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing the wage gap (myth)?
Gender is a social construct

> Are we discussing differences in crime statistics?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing an issue that currently benefits men over women?
Gender is biological
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Esrac
08/04/17 9:49:38 AM
#79:


The Admiral posted...
A Liberal's Guide to Whether Gender is Biological or a Social Construct

> Are we discussing transgenders?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing gender roles?
Gender is a social construct.

> Are we discussing a feminist issue?
Gender is a social construct

> Are we discussing rape culture?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing the wage gap (myth)?
Gender is a social construct

> Are we discussing differences in crime statistics?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing an issue that currently benefits men over women?
Gender is biological


I've heard a few say Sex is a social construct. As in biological sex. But I doubt many would take them seriously.
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Questionmarktarius
08/04/17 10:01:30 AM
#80:


^

...I don't get it.
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Esrac
08/04/17 10:13:23 AM
#81:


Questionmarktarius posted...
^

...I don't get it.


I didn't say it was sensible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVRzGMVXbM


Riley Dennis, who is apparently a very popular trans YouTuber, is trying to argue here that sex and gender are both social constructs.
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Questionmarktarius
08/04/17 10:19:14 AM
#82:


Esrac posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
^

...I don't get it.


I didn't say it was sensible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVRzGMVXbM


Riley Dennis, who is apparently a very popular trans YouTuber, is trying to argue here that sex and gender are both social constructs.

I don't get that either, but I was referring Addy's list. You just cut in line.
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Esrac
08/04/17 10:25:05 AM
#83:


Questionmarktarius posted...
Esrac posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
^

...I don't get it.


I didn't say it was sensible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVRzGMVXbM


Riley Dennis, who is apparently a very popular trans YouTuber, is trying to argue here that sex and gender are both social constructs.

I don't get that either, but I was referring Addy's list. You just cut in line.


I don't think it counts as cutting in line when my post came more than 10 minutes before yours.
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Questionmarktarius
08/04/17 10:27:51 AM
#84:


Esrac posted...
I don't think it counts as cutting in line when my post came more than 10 minutes before yours.

I only see a difference of six or seven.
But, uh, yeah. My bad.
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P4wn4g3
08/04/17 4:25:46 PM
#85:


The Admiral posted...
A Liberal's Guide to Whether Gender is Biological or a Social Construct

> Are we discussing transgenders?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing gender roles?
Gender is a social construct.

> Are we discussing a feminist issue?
Gender is a social construct

> Are we discussing rape culture?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing the wage gap (myth)?
Gender is a social construct

> Are we discussing differences in crime statistics?
Gender is biological

> Are we discussing an issue that currently benefits men over women?
Gender is biological

I'd agree with you, except you're saying liberal here as is your schtick these days. Stay frosty.
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GiftedACIII
08/04/17 4:59:49 PM
#86:


scar the 1 posted...
That's a bold claim to make about feminist theory. I'm almost willing to bet two cents that you haven't read very much of it in the first place.

Where did I say anything about feminist theory? You're the only one who keeps bringing it up. I said the vocabulary of radfems, which by definition are even further removed than regular feminists. And this isn't even about all radfem ideas, just this one aspect. Why are you so indignant at the idea that some ideas of feminism might not be infallible?
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The Admiral
08/04/17 5:26:44 PM
#87:


P4wn4g3 posted...
I'd agree with you, except you're saying liberal here as is your schtick these days. Stay frosty


Sounds like you're just frosty that the word liberal was used. It's perfectly accurate in this case. The conservative's guide on this issue just has one response.
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P4wn4g3
08/04/17 5:28:25 PM
#88:


Typical admiral.
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Howl
08/04/17 5:28:45 PM
#89:


I don't understand how feminists can be against such things and simultaneously argue that trans people exist because they have the opposite genders brain.
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darkphoenix181
08/04/17 5:30:02 PM
#90:


wait

so because some monkeys played with toys they concluded human brains have sex differences

that seems quite odd
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Esrac
08/04/17 5:41:14 PM
#91:


darkphoenix181 posted...
wait

so because some monkeys played with toys they concluded human brains have sex differences

that seems quite odd


Not really.

It's to point out that even toy preferences aren't socially engineered so much as consistently preferred by each sex. And because we see similar choice trends in very young human children we can see there is overlap. They just used a closely related primate cousin in that experiment.

Also. It's not like that was the only example of evidence they used.
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SubtletyRefuge
08/04/17 6:24:57 PM
#92:


Howl posted...
I don't understand how feminists can be against such things and simultaneously argue that trans people exist because they have the opposite genders brain.

Those people believe gender is completely made up so you can make up and identify whatever gender you want to be. Those people are the ones who believe there are a limitless amount of genders.
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COVxy
08/04/17 7:36:43 PM
#93:


Howl posted...
I don't understand how feminists can be against such things and simultaneously argue that trans people exist because they have the opposite genders brain.


You're mostly just conflating different people and pretending they are the same people to make yourself feel better.
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MutantJohn
08/05/17 9:07:11 PM
#94:


I think the reason why radfems would be upset at the notion that gender is biological is because it seems to imply an expected set of behaviors from a person.

The article does immediately jump to the "men are better at visuospatial tasks while women communicate more effectively" train.

Physical differences between biologically male and female humans is expected. The real key is interpreting the impacts of the differences and making sure that what we pull from the data can't be used maliciously to oppress women.
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