Poll of the Day > I haven't even finished Pokemon Moon yet :/

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh well, time to sell.
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I actually did not like Sun all that much. I'm a little interested in SM2 because there's a chance they might fix all the major problems with it, but I doubt it.
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Yeah I was hyped as fuck for sun and moon and they were just so boring. Too much blah blah blah and it just wasn't interesting. Very disappoint.

The above posts sum up my feelings all too well.

The only thing I didn't like about SM was the Festival Plaza. What complete dumbass decided to force all the online interaction in a separate area, when XY had it perfect? No excuse.

If they can fix the online stuff, and make the lag less noticeable (my god is it excruciatingly bad in SM), then there's hope for SM2, at least for me.

I'll probably pick one up for Christmas or something, probably UM since I got the original Moon, unless I wanna use this as an excuse to play Sun, lol.
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I finished Sun, but I also wasn't a huge fan. I prefer the old games where the horrible story wasn't shoved down your mouth. You just basically went from town to town beating down gyms and Team *insert name here*. I'll probably end up getting Sun2 anyway, fuck me...

I havent finished a pokemon game since diamond
I almost finished black and my ds and copy of black disappeared
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I greatly enjoyed Moon, but it took forever to get through all of the fucking intro stuff and early tutorials -- most of which covered the self-explanatory. I miss the days when garbage like that was left mostly in an instruction manual.
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Hopefully that will be a problem they address.
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S/M was too much like a calm, relaxing tour of Hawaii (which the developers said was their intention) and not enough like an adventure. In other words, it was kind of boring.

There wasn't enough variety in the locals, and nor were they that interesting. They were consistent with a region that is based on Hawaii, but that doesn't make it good.

The number 1 problem with the story in any Pokemon game is the lack of time spent developing any of the characters, so when the "crisis" is presented, you don't care because the game didn't spend any time getting you to care about the characters this "crisis" effects. In S/M they spend a little time developing 1 character, but that character is helpless and weak for no reason and makes illogical choices based on their experiences, which makes you resent why the game makes you cater to them. Additionally, rather than have the stupid apocalypse scenario that nobody is impressed with because of the said usual lack of character development, S/M has an opposite scenario where the threat is so comically insignificant that you not existing would barely make a difference to the events of the game at all.
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

S/M was too much like a calm, relaxing tour of Hawaii (which the developers said was their intention) and not enough like an adventure. In other words, it was kind of boring.

There wasn't enough variety in the locals, and nor were they that interesting. They were consistent with a region that is based on Hawaii, but that doesn't make it good.

The number 1 problem with the story in any Pokemon game is the lack of time spent developing any of the characters, so when the "crisis" is presented, you don't care because the game didn't spend any time getting you to care about the characters this "crisis" effects. In S/M they spend a little time developing 1 character, but that character is helpless and weak for no reason and makes illogical choices based on their experiences, which makes you resent why the game makes you cater to them. Additionally, rather than have the stupid apocalypse scenario that nobody is impressed with because of the said usual lack of character development, S/M has an opposite scenario where the threat is so comically insignificant that you not existing would barely make a difference to the events of the game at all.

Few problems with that: First, the past two generations have done a tremendous job building up multiple characters. Every gen we have the same sense of crisis but it wasn't until recently that we had recurring characters and substance to those characters; in previous generations, the only time you seemed to run into a NPC again was if they wanted to battle.

Second, the character you chose to highlight has reasonably good explanation for her weakness, given that she grew up in an extremely sheltered environment and her Pokemon partner is so damn weak. When another character left his sheltered environment, he had a pretty strong partner who could actually battle so it's more natural he turned out stronger.

Third, there's very little precedent for video games with a world at stake where you care about the characters (outside your team, anyway). Most of the NPCs in the majority of games are basically unnamed.
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So many haters. SuMo is a breath of fresh air into the series. The cutscenes are a minor nuisance. Everything else is a nice departure from the gym system.
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Zeus posted...

Few problems with that: First, the past two generations have done a tremendous job building up multiple characters. Every gen we have the same sense of crisis but it wasn't until recently that we had recurring characters and substance to those characters; in previous generations, the only time you seemed to run into a NPC again was if they wanted to battle.

Second, the character you chose to highlight has reasonably good explanation for her weakness, given that she grew up in an extremely sheltered environment and her Pokemon partner is so damn weak. When another character left his sheltered environment, he had a pretty strong partner who could actually battle so it's more natural he turned out stronger.

Third, there's very little precedent for video games with a world at stake where you care about the characters (outside your team, anyway). Most of the NPCs in the majority of games are basically unnamed.

I don't consider a character simply showing up more than once "good character development".
Even though less time was arguably spent on them than Lillie, I liked your Black/White friends and X/Y friends more than Lillie and Hau.

The reason Lillie is weak and defenseless was flimsy to begin with as she claims she doesn't like Pokemon harming each other, but chooses to view your battles from the very beginning because the story wants her to be around instead of her just leaving. She than chooses do do nothing to improve her helplessness despite having goals and being assaulted multiple times when people try to steal Nebby. It's actually strange for someone to do absolutely nothing to try and stop being defenseless and improve their situation after being assaulted multiple times, which, makes you lose empathy for her. We're talking about the Pokemon world, where kids are E4 members and Champions. It's even worse because she lets go of her previous belief that Pokemon battles are bad very early in the game, but she still doesn't do anything to try and stop being helpless.

Even N, who intentionally was raised to believe that Pokemon being made to fight was bad, was not so dense as to think he could get anything accomplished without being a Pokemon Trainer himself, and so he became one, and become a good one at that (beating the E4 and the Champion), despite not liking the idea of it, because he had conviction.

It's fine that you only care about your "party" or "team" when a crisis in a story happens, a story is bad when it has failed to get you to care about anybody in the game this crisis effects, you don't have to care about everybody. Or the other flaw in which many Pokemon games fall into, that of which is the crisis or the motivation or reason behind it is stupid, even if it is apocalyptic.
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I enjoyed it and the last Pokemon I finished was Silver.

Not a huge fan of the end game though. Getting a pokemon to 100 is much harder this time around (then again, I had the Game Boy Plus and could speed up the game, so that made it easier).

Also, I usually play DS games while watching TV, so that makes getting through the cut scenes easier.
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DarkKirby2500 posted...

I don't consider a character simply showing up more than once "good character development".
Even though less time was arguably spent on them than Lillie, I liked your Black/White friends and X/Y friends more than Lillie and Hau.

The XY group I considered almost on par with Lillie and Hau. They're constantly around and most of the time they have ACTUAL dialogue rather than just prompting a rematch. That said, there are more than just Lillie and Hau in that game. The professor is around non-stop and even the Team Skull minions have more personality than previous bad guy teams.

DarkKirby2500 posted...

It's actually strange for someone to do absolutely nothing to try and stop being defenseless and improve their situation after being assaulted multiple times, which, makes you lose empathy fo

Except if you're partnered with something weak where all it ever does in a fight is get hurt, it makes a lot of sense to not fight.

DarkKirby2500 posted...

Even N, who intentionally was raised to believe that Pokemon being made to fight was bad,

He was partnered with exceptionally strong Pokemon and knew how to handle himself. Not to mention he was raised in an environment which encouraged and taught him to fight. Hardly a one-to-one comparison. However, if we want to talk about shit that doesn't make sense, N could *talk* to Pokemon so he should have known that most enjoy fighting. Everything about N was a plot hole.

DarkKirby2500 posted...

It's fine that you only care about your "party" or "team" when a crisis in a story happens, a story is bad when it has failed to get you to care about anybody in the game this crisis effects, you don't have to care about everybody. Or the other flaw in which many Pokemon games fall into, that of which is the crisis or the motivation or reason behind it is stupid, even if it is apocalyptic.

Which again is a problem experienced by virtually every video game. A lot of games you have to struggle to remember the name of a NPC not on your team because they either have little presence, a small role, or both. (Kidnapped princesses always being an exception)
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Zeus posted...

The XY group I considered almost on par with Lillie and Hau. They're constantly around and most of the time they have ACTUAL dialogue rather than just prompting a rematch. That said, there are more than just Lillie and Hau in that game. The professor is around non-stop and even the Team Skull minions have more personality than previous bad guy teams.

Yes, there are reoccurring characters, but the character the story focuses the most on is Lillie. Hau is around pretty often too but I found him annoying, because he actually acted realistically for his age, which in comparison to everyone else around him which acted mostly like adults regardless of their age, made him the odd man out.

Zeus posted...

Except if you're partnered with something weak where all it ever does in a fight is get hurt, it makes a lot of sense to not fight.

Why does she have to be restricted to using Nebby? Nebby wasn't even actually her Pokemon, because she for some unexplained reason never put Nebby in a Pokeball. She could have caught any Pokemon to become a trainer, I (the protagonist) would have gladly given her a team of Pokemon and trained her myself just so she'd stop being helpless. Lots of people she met would gladly had helped her become a trainer. The issue is she doesn't even try.

Zeus posted...

He was partnered with exceptionally strong Pokemon and knew how to handle himself. Not to mention he was raised in an environment which encouraged and taught him to fight. Hardly a one-to-one comparison. However, if we want to talk about shit that doesn't make sense, N could *talk* to Pokemon so he should have known that most enjoy fighting. Everything about N was a plot hole.

That's not true, when the game began, his team consisted of garbage Pokemon than had been abused. He raised them to be strong. The only Pokemon he had that started out strong was the cover legendary, which he didn't get until later in the game, and it's never implied the legendary was his crutch. The plot hole is not that N's Pokemon didn't tell him they like fighting, but every other trainer's Pokemon should have told him that.

Zeus posted...

Which again is a problem experienced by virtually every video game. A lot of games you have to struggle to remember the name of a NPC not on your team because they either have little presence, a small role, or both. (Kidnapped princesses always being an exception)

I cannot confirm the ratio of good reasons/motivations to bad motivations for plots in video games, but Pokemon leans on the bad side. I think it hit it's peak in X/Y, when Lysandre said he wants to destroy the world because there aren't enough resources and people are too evil, but the only evil people you ever see in the game is Team Flare itself. So the plan to to kill everybody and everything, and have the world be repopulated and rebuilt by the worst people in Kalos.

Also, in regards to N, here's the classic.


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I've never even played Sun/Moon yet haha

Although I haven't played many 3DS games lately because my 3DS is breaking down and the battery lasts less than 20 minutes off the charger. I'll probably get that new 2DS coming out, then Ultra Sun later.

chaosbowser posted...

So many haters. SuMo is a breath of fresh air into the series. The cutscenes are a minor nuisance. Everything else is a nice departure from the gym system.

How was it a breath of fresh air?
The island trials were extremely similar to gyms in that you solve a puzzle and then face the gym leader/captain...
S/M even have an Elite 4.
<_<

DarkKirby2500 posted...

could have caught any Pokemon to become a trainer,

The ending strongly implies she does become a trainer.


DarkKirby2500 posted...

The plot hole is not that N's Pokemon didn't tell him they like fighting, but every other trainer's Pokemon should have told him that.

Except they should have told him just that because otherwise they wouldn't agree to fight and, in general, the issue wasn't the fighting but the treatment by the previous owners. N would presumably take better care of them.
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I just passed 400 hours on moon
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Xfma100 posted...

chaosbowser posted...

So many haters. SuMo is a breath of fresh air into the series. The cutscenes are a minor nuisance. Everything else is a nice departure from the gym system.

How was it a breath of fresh air?
The island trials were extremely similar to gyms in that you solve a puzzle and then face the gym leader/captain...
S/M even have an Elite 4.
<_<

Except you don't do that? You go through a trial then encounter a souped up boss pokemon. Then in between trials there were "leaders." There's very little in common other than the existence of a strong trainer at some points along the way.
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chaosbowser posted...

So many haters. SuMo is a breath of fresh air into the series. The cutscenes are a minor nuisance. Everything else is a nice departure from the gym system.

I'm not a hater. I love Pokémon. Have a Pokémon tattoo. Was very hyped for this game.

I just didn't like it. That doesn't make me a hater. That makes me a disappointed fan.

Xfma100 posted...

The above posts sum up my feelings all too well.

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Dropped it before elite 4, game wasn't engaging.
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i liked sun. never finished it. i don't finish many games
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chaosbowser posted...

Xfma100 posted...

chaosbowser posted...

So many haters. SuMo is a breath of fresh air into the series. The cutscenes are a minor nuisance. Everything else is a nice departure from the gym system.

How was it a breath of fresh air?
The island trials were extremely similar to gyms in that you solve a puzzle and then face the gym leader/captain...
S/M even have an Elite 4.
<_<

Except you don't do that? You go through a trial then encounter a souped up boss pokemon. Then in between trials there were "leaders." There's very little in common other than the existence of a strong trainer at some points along the way.

But what happens right after those trials?
The Grand Trials, which are basically gyms that are oustside.

The boss Pokemon mechanic was new, and It was a nice change of pace, but everything else is just the same old stuff.