Poll of the Day > I just don't understand how some liberals vehemently defend Islam.

(+) Yeah! (+)

And no, I'm not talking about the "good muslims" or those who aren't terrorists. I'm talking about ISLAM. The religion literally the antithesis of almost EVERYTHING liberals stand for.

Patriarchy? You've got it. Women are literally nothing over there.
Homophobic? You've got it. Gays are murdered for being gay in the name of Islam.
Everything shaming? You've got it. Unless you're a straight religious man, you're fair game.
Racism? Ohhhh yeah got a healthy helping of it.

If you are living in western culture, you assimilate as many do. The west hasn't come this far in progressiveness to go backwards.

I just can't fathom the idea of defending...to the core...anything that comes from Islam. Don't get me wrong, we are not perfect as a country and we never will be but we've come a long way and we can't let the ideals of ultra moral progressivism destroy a good thing.

I have seen that whenever Muslims do something bad, liberals tend to call it "religion", and use it as a euphemism for Christianity instead.

I hate Islam, but I value the idea of not judging people by their religion more. I don't believe our culture is threatened in any way, either. The US is where culture comes to die. There's just no way as long as we don't take in an entire group and throw them in a slum.

jamieyello3 posted...

I hate Islam, but I value the idea of not judging people by their religion more. I don't believe our culture is threatened in any way, either. The US is where culture comes to die. There's just no way as long as we don't take in an entire group and throw them in a slum.

The US is fine...FOR NOW. I'm talking western culture in general. The terrorist attacks over in Europe are entirely too frequent to ignore and shrug off. We can clearly see what happens when the idea of being morally superior is chosen over actual logic.

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

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How come conservatives love the Saudi's who are some of the biggest terrorism supporters around?

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

Erik_P posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

Completely irrelevant and off-topic. I'd love for once for people who say this on repeat to ACTUALLY respond to Islamic extremism and hell, Islam in general.

Christianity is not the discussion. I think religion is shitty all around but we're talking about THAT religion. Stay on topic, thanks.

Sunk cost fallacy. They've become so invested in defending it that they can't back down now but yes, virtually everything they hate about conservatism and despise about hate groups in this country is present in Islam.

Granted, part of it could be the elitist tendency where they view themselves as white saviors trying to save people they regard as backward savages (which is an extension of the racist missionary attitude) and, because they regard them as inferior beings, they don't hold them to the same standard. As such, they're more permissive of behaviors and attitudes that they'd outright condemn from other quarters.

The general hilarity in all this is that, culturally speaking, Islam's deep conservatism is -- on some levels anyway -- a better fit for the right than the left, yet the right ironically despises that Islam seeks to deny women freedoms while the left -- despite claiming to be a champion of women's rights -- at least implicitly supports the right to deny freedoms and maintain a culture of oppression.

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

Literally just described politics in general while ignoring that the most liberal areas are widely associated with the most corruption.
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Patriarchy? Is not a Islam only problem. Infact it wasn't a problem till the USA decided to help change who was in charge of most of those countries.
Homophobic? Seeing as the USA has it's own problems with gays, not exactly a Islam problem.
Everything shaming? See above.
Racism? Because black males are not being imprisoned or killed daily in the USA. Totally a Islam only problem.

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.
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Lil69Leo posted...

Patriarchy? Is not a Islam only problem. Infact it wasn't a problem till the USA decided to help change who was in charge of most of those countries.
Homophobic? Seeing as the USA has it's own problems with gays, not exactly a Islam problem.
Everything shaming? See above.
Racism? Because black males are not being imprisoned or killed daily in the USA. Totally a Islam only problem.

Missing the boat completely there again? He's noting that the things that liberals complain about happening in the US -- many of which are overstated or outright unfounded -- are present to a far greater degree within Islam. It's like complaining about people spitting on sidewalks in the US then giving a free pass to people who pee on sidewalks.
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Lokarin posted...

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

All of the "big three" religions we deal with in the west, at their core, support killing ad nauseum for even the most absurd reasons. The "good" people who pick and choose are actually not legitimate followers in the sense that they only take the positive aspects. However, conversely, the books were used to create peace in their given time, so it can also be argued that is no longer the case, as it's more about applying the teachings to your lifestyle than dogmatic obsession.

Now that I have successfully argued with myself, I am not sure where to go.
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Lil69Leo posted...

Patriarchy? Is not a Islam only problem. Infact it wasn't a problem till the USA decided to help change who was in charge of most of those countries.
Homophobic? Seeing as the USA has it's own problems with gays, not exactly a Islam problem.
Everything shaming? See above.
Racism? Because black males are not being imprisoned or killed daily in the USA. Totally a Islam only problem.

Still off topic.

Lil69Leo posted...

Lokarin posted...

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

Tell that to the muslims who die by other muslims everyday. Get the fuck out of here. And again honey, I said in the OP I'm not TALKING about the peaceful people. Yet, you make it a mission to continually bring them up as if I'm lumping them together.

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

Maybe try staying on-topic. He's not claiming Christianity is good.
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Smarkil posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't know how conservatives can let Christianity dictate their choices in laws then completely screw over the poor and take bribes.

Maybe try staying on-topic. He's not claiming Christianity is good.

If anything, he/she is proving my point by being absolutely ridiculously defensive. It's like a disease. Sad!

Lil69Leo posted...

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

Look at all that tiny minority

http://c5.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/death-penalty-for-leaving-islam.png
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Sharia says to follow the law of the land, if Sharia became the law of the land they'd all be self-apostates.
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IAmNowGone posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

Lokarin posted...

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

Tell that to the muslims who die by other muslims everyday. Get the fuck out of here. And again honey, I said in the OP I'm not TALKING about the peaceful people. Yet, you make it a mission to continually bring them up as if I'm lumping them together.

No, you lumped all Muslims together and are trying to back pedal. Did you even read the topic or the original post?

IAmNowGone posted...

The US is fine...FOR NOW. I'm talking western culture in general. The terrorist attacks over in Europe are entirely too frequent to ignore and shrug off. We can clearly see what happens when the idea of being morally superior is chosen over actual logic.

If I'm to be perfectly honest, if I'm going to hear "we need to ban X group!" I'd rather hear "it's because we're literally at war" rather than "it's because X group is fundamentally evil!". Is that fair enough?

The latter of that goes against, well, Liberal values. Most Liberals will roll their eyes when they hear that. To be honest I'd much rather hear people complain about ending the war instead of what to do with all the collateral damage. It's total bullshit, it's like while actively burning down random houses people are trying to decide what to do with all the homeless people.

I'm pretty sure the refugee drama is synthesized to take our attention off the war.

IAmNowGone posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

Lokarin posted...

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

Tell that to the muslims who die by other muslims everyday. Get the fuck out of here. And again honey, I said in the OP I'm not TALKING about the peaceful people. Yet, you make it a mission to continually bring them up as if I'm lumping them together.

You totally lumped together all 2 billion of them as if they were a hive mind.
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IAmNowGone posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

Lokarin posted...

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

Tell that to the muslims who die by other muslims everyday. Get the fuck out of here. And again honey, I said in the OP I'm not TALKING about the peaceful people. Yet, you make it a mission to continually bring them up as if I'm lumping them together.

This dude just actually tried to use honey condescendingly.

Lokarin posted...

Sharia says to follow the law of the land, if Sharia became the law of the land they'd all be self-apostates.

To be fair, Sharia law also says that spreading Islam by force is ethical.

That doesn't mean that you can't have liberal Muslims, or that Muslims can't assimilate into new cultures, but if you look at current events, and then defend Islam and curse Christianity, you have some serious work to do. I largely agree with OP. Without commentary on any other religion, it's baffling why Islam is given a pretty big pass.
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jamieyello3 posted...

If I'm to be perfectly honest, if I'm going to hear "we need to ban X group!" I'd rather hear "it's because we're literally at war" rather than "it's because X group is fundamentally evil!". Is that fair enough?

Yes.
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JTekashiro posted...

IAmNowGone posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

Lokarin posted...

Remember, Saudi culture is not Islam culture. There are many moderate and progressive Muslims who don't go stoning people or castrating their children. Moreover, there are several denominations of Islam.

Come on Lok, we all know we have to judge Islam by it's incredibly tiny minority of extremists and only Islam. It's not like there are 1.5-2billion other Muslim people.

Tell that to the muslims who die by other muslims everyday. Get the fuck out of here. And again honey, I said in the OP I'm not TALKING about the peaceful people. Yet, you make it a mission to continually bring them up as if I'm lumping them together.

No, you lumped all Muslims together and are trying to back pedal. Did you even read the topic or the original post?

You misinterpreted but it's okay. People make mistakes all the time.

I was just saying that liberals defend Islam because of the hive mind lumping togetherness, iz all
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jamieyello3 posted...

IAmNowGone posted...

The US is fine...FOR NOW. I'm talking western culture in general. The terrorist attacks over in Europe are entirely too frequent to ignore and shrug off. We can clearly see what happens when the idea of being morally superior is chosen over actual logic.

If I'm to be perfectly honest, if I'm going to hear "we need to ban X group!" I'd rather hear "it's because we're literally at war" rather than "it's because X group is fundamentally evil!". Is that fair enough?

The latter of that goes against, well, Liberal values. Most Liberals will roll their eyes when they hear that. To be honest I'd much rather hear people complain about ending the war instead of what to do with all the collateral damage. It's total bullshit, it's like while actively burning down random houses people are trying to decide what to do with all the homeless people.

I'm pretty sure the refugee drama is synthesized to take our attention off the war.

Absolutely fair. I do believe the US is totally meddling in affairs that they shouldn't be meddling in but if I understand correctly it's extremely complicated. If there was a way to minimize interference significantly that would be ideal. Alas...

TheWorstPoster posted...

I have seen that whenever Muslims do something bad, liberals tend to call it "religion", and use it as a euphemism for Christianity instead.

That's because everything on the opening post also applies to Christianity

Lokarin posted...

I was just saying that liberals defend Islam because of the hive mind lumping togetherness, iz all

Yes, but it's extremely forward to assume that those like myself are lumping them together. It's extremely easy to paint one person or a group of people with the same stroke rather than look at the bigger picture.

FourthDimension posted...

TheWorstPoster posted...

I have seen that whenever Muslims do something bad, liberals tend to call it "religion", and use it as a euphemism for Christianity instead.

That's because everything on the opening post also applies to Christianity

*to a significantly lesser degree nowadays.

The problem is most liberals seem to confuse defending radicalism over defending religions.
The fact that they're not defending Islam at all, they're defending radicalism over tolerance.
And that is as stupid as it gets.

Tolerance works both way. It is idiotic to tolerate a person/group who think they're the only right answer to life.
I mean, what's the point, right? You should fight radicalism and superiority complex, not defend them.
Radicalism that's toxic, as for religion itself is... debatable.
Still, you think radical Christian or Hinduism is better than radical Islam? Of course not.
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IAmNowGone posted...

Yes, but it's extremely forward to assume that those like myself are lumping them together. It's extremely easy to paint one person or a group of people with the same stroke rather than look at the bigger picture.

Ironically I'm not saying you're lumping all muslim together, but that non-liberals lump them together. You took what I said to mean the opposite of what was meant.
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I love it when people deflect with "but Christianity teaches X which is just as evil as when Islam teaches Y". Yep, They're both pretty terrible ideologies. No argument here.

Lokarin posted...

IAmNowGone posted...

Yes, but it's extremely forward to assume that those like myself are lumping them together. It's extremely easy to paint one person or a group of people with the same stroke rather than look at the bigger picture.

Ironically I'm not saying you're lumping all muslim together, but that non-liberals lump them together. You took what I said to mean the opposite of what was meant.

Apologies.

Duck-I-Says posted...

I love it when people deflect with "but Christianity teaches X which is just as evil as when Islam teaches Y". Yep, They're both pretty terrible ideologies. No argument here.

Absolutely. It's just completely unnecessary to be said as a legit argument.

IAmNowGone posted...

Absolutely. It's just completely unnecessary to be said as a legit argument.

It's a form of red herring.

I share the same opinion as TJ, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQjhNH6g94
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Because by painting with a broad brush about a religion, you are painting a broad brush about an entire religion.
This is a very specific sort of group brought up under a specific socioeconomic foundation, with specific ideologies of a doctrine.

The people we are fighting are the kids whose houses got blown up in 2008 when they were 10, because of something someone did down the street, and watched their family die as "collateral damage". Then they get on the internet and learn that people are literally against the very basic philosophy of who they are.
It's not unreasonable that they would then see the society that is hell bent on destroying a group 100 miles from them, being bad.

The more you preach about how awful Islam is, and how all Muslims are awful, the worse things get because you are literally feeding their fire.
It's the old "hatred breeds hatred" thing.

Lokarin posted...

I share the same opinion as TJ, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQjhNH6g94

I don't always agree with TJ but I agree 100% here.
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Lokarin posted...

I share the same opinion as TJ, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQjhNH6g94

Can all the people who mentioned christianity please watch these video? He's spot fucking on.

shadowsword87 posted...

Because by painting with a broad brush about a religion, you are painting a broad brush about an entire religion.
This is a very specific sort of group brought up under a specific socioeconomic foundation, with specific ideologies of a doctrine.

The people we are fighting are the kids whose houses got blown up in 2008 when they were 10, because of something someone did down the street, and watched their family die as "collateral damage". Then they get on the internet and learn that people are literally against the very basic philosophy of who they are.
It's not unreasonable that they would then see the society that is hell bent on destroying a group 100 miles from them, being bad.

The more you preach about how awful Islam is, and how all Muslims are awful, the worse things get because you are literally feeding their fire.
It's the old "hatred breeds hatred" thing.

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette

Tropic_Sunset posted...

Lokarin posted...

I share the same opinion as TJ, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQjhNH6g94

I don't always agree with TJ but I agree 100% here.

"I don't want to tell people I'm Muslim because ill be called a terrorist"

Funny how you can change a few words in what he says to apply to most Muslim people. They don't want to tell people that they are Muslims because of the negatives about it.

IAmNowGone posted...

Lokarin posted...

I share the same opinion as TJ, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQjhNH6g94

Can all the people who mentioned christianity please watch these video? He's spot fucking on.

shadowsword87 posted...

Because by painting with a broad brush about a religion, you are painting a broad brush about an entire religion.
This is a very specific sort of group brought up under a specific socioeconomic foundation, with specific ideologies of a doctrine.

The people we are fighting are the kids whose houses got blown up in 2008 when they were 10, because of something someone did down the street, and watched their family die as "collateral damage". Then they get on the internet and learn that people are literally against the very basic philosophy of who they are.
It's not unreasonable that they would then see the society that is hell bent on destroying a group 100 miles from them, being bad.

The more you preach about how awful Islam is, and how all Muslims are awful, the worse things get because you are literally feeding their fire.
It's the old "hatred breeds hatred" thing.

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette

Start with your own.

IAmNowGone posted...

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette

lol how is this even a coherent reply to what he wrote
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First off everyone knows that there is a problem with extremists. the USA created that problem and shoving them under the Islam flag is about as stupid as shoving the KKK under the Christianity flag (guess which never happens) Just because someone you terrorized turned back on you doesn't mean they are Muslims, no more than Donald Trump being a Christian.

It's no different than saying all the wars in the middle east from the USA were Christian wars because Bush happens to be Christian.

The problem is extremists not Islam, maybe stop bombing civilians and there will be less of it.

RCtheWSBC posted...

IAmNowGone posted...

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette

lol how is this even a coherent reply to what he wrote

twas the intention.

Lil69Leo posted...

First off everyone knows that there is a problem with extremists. the USA created that problem and shoving them under the Islam flag is about as stupid as shoving the KKK under the Christianity flag (guess which never happens) Just because someone you terrorized turned back on you doesn't mean they are Muslims, no more than Donald Trump being a Christian.

It's no different than saying all the wars in the middle east from the USA were Christian wars because Bush happens to be Christian.

The problem is extremists not Islam, maybe stop bombing civilians and there will be less of it.

If everyone knows there's a problem why are we perpetuating it by undermining the religion that caused it and continues to cause it?

But yes, I agree that the US shouldn't be in the middle east. There's a lot of stuff being done wrong, one of those things is defending islam.

IAmNowGone posted...

twas the intention.

Dude, you asked why.
I gave you a perfectly reasonable reason.

Lil69Leo posted...

Tropic_Sunset posted...

Lokarin posted...

I share the same opinion as TJ, as seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHQjhNH6g94

I don't always agree with TJ but I agree 100% here.

"I don't want to tell people I'm Muslim because ill be called a terrorist"

Funny how you can change a few words in what he says to apply to most Muslim people. They don't want to tell people that they are Muslims because of the negatives about it.

In the US? Are you insane? I live literally a block from a Muslim cultural center and the last shooting in my town was from a few years ago from a jealous white boyfriend. You watch too much Fox News if you think for a second that this applies to most Muslim people in the US.

You might be right in certain ideologies or certain areas, but you haven't yet proved that this is most of the US.

Lil69Leo posted...

First off everyone knows that there is a problem with extremists. the USA created that problem and shoving them under the Islam flag is about as stupid as shoving the KKK under the Christianity flag (guess which never happens)

I assume you mean outside this board, because only on this board is this a controversy.

Lil69Leo posted...

The problem is extremists not Islam, maybe stop bombing civilians and there will be less of it.

I agree for the most part prior to the comma, as for after...how often did Obama order drone strikes? Something like every 20 minutes for his term, on average. How often did I say it was horrible. Fucking often. Leo, you may not be wrong here, in fact I tend to agree that there should be less bombing, but at best you're a fucking hypocrite. I never, ever saw you condemn Obama's warmongering as he was doing it, only after he was no longer president as some likely virtue signaling to give yourself some idiot credibility.
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shadowsword87 posted...

IAmNowGone posted...

twas the intention.

Dude, you asked why.
I gave you a perfectly reasonable reason.

It's Kwame, he's strongly opinionated but doesn't really have the knowledge to properly debate or back up his opinions. He's basically Zeus or PO without all the verbosity.
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Islam is a religion of peace. Do not be a hater.
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