Current Events > I really hate this logic about people accidentally killing their loved ones

(+) Yeah! (+)

"They shouldn't be punished or sent to jail/prison because it's punishing enough to live knowing they killed a love one by accident".
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I don't get what you're saying or referencing
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dave_is_slick posted...

I don't get what you're saying or referencing

He's saying that people that say guilt is a good enough punishment are dumb.
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Depends on how they "killed" them honestly.

Sometimes incarceration would benefit absolutely nobody and punishment for punishment's sake is idiotic.
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Link HT posted...

Depends on how they "killed" them honestly.

Sometimes incarceration would benefit absolutely nobody and punishment for punishment's sake is idiotic.

How about forgetting about your kid in the car and letting it die from the heat?
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Veggeta X posted...

Link HT posted...

Depends on how they "killed" them honestly.

Sometimes incarceration would benefit absolutely nobody and punishment for punishment's sake is idiotic.

How about forgetting about your kid in the car and letting it die from the heat?

If you can conclusively prove it was intentional, neglectful, or even because it happened due to an intoxicated state then yes.

Otherwise there is literally no point. It's just an absolutely tragic accident that could happen to anyone living a stressful life.
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Naw they need to be made an example of.
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Veggeta X posted...

Naw they need to be made an example of.

lol okay
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The scariest thing to me about this is how confident people are that it would be impossible for them to make the same mistake.

I mean do you think people who do leave their kids in the car love their life going "oh man I'm so gonna accidentally kill these kids someday"?

If I'm ever a dad, guess who's checking the back seat every time he gets out of the car, whether I think I have the kids with me or not?
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Veggeta X posted...

Naw they need to be made an example of.

To who? People who might accidentally leave their baby in a car?
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Naw they need to be made an example of.

To who? People who might accidentally leave their baby in a car?

To people in general so that it'll help prevent people from accidentally doing it. You can't be this dense.
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OJ just had a simple accident. Thats all.
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Veggeta X posted...

"They shouldn't be punished or sent to jail/prison because it's punishing enough to live knowing they killed a love one by accident".

I'm sure the parents of that murdered 18 year old girl are feeling so bad for her piece of shit boyfriend.
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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

To people in general so that it'll help prevent people from accidentally doing it. You can't be this dense.

the irony is delicious
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I'd love for you to tell me where I'm dense at. This is like no one should be punished for having a car accident because it was an accident.
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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Naw they need to be made an example of.

To who? People who might accidentally leave their baby in a car?

To people in general so that it'll help prevent people from accidentally doing it. You can't be this dense.

So that it'll help prevent people from accidentally doing something?

We "punish" people for car accidents because damages need to be paid. We penalize people for traffic violations because of the number of incidents and the difficulty of determining intent (and it's a source of funds for the area in question).

But what good do criminal charges in this situation do? It's not preventative, the perpetrator already feels like absolute fucking shit about it, and there's not exactly a huge risk of a repeat offense.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

We "punish" people for car accidents because damages need to be paid

Sooo...

Dragonblade01 posted...

But what good do criminal charges in this situation do? It's not preventative, the perpetrator already feels like absolute fucking shit about it, and there's not exactly a huge risk of a repeat offense.

It's preventative so other's can be more a look out so they don't make the same mistake even if accidental.
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But if the mistake is accidental in the first place, preventative measures aren't going to do squat. It would need to influence a behavior in order to have an effect, but there's no behavior being influenced here. It's not like encouraging people to watch the road more or pay attention to signs. We're talking about "not leaving your baby in the car." There's no behavioral correction for the preventative measure to enforce, instead becoming "just don't make this mistake." Criminal charges do nothing to help anybody here.
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What about the case of Todd Heap, former NFL player who accidentally ran over his daughter? He was not intoxicated - just made a God honest most terrible mistake of his life. You think he should be in prison?
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Dragonblade01 posted...

But if the mistake is accidental in the first place, preventative measures aren't going to do squat. It would need to influence a behavior in order to have an effect, but there's no behavior being influenced here. It's not like encouraging people to watch the road more or pay attention to signs. We're talking about "not leaving your baby in the car." There's no behavioral correction for the preventative measure to enforce, instead becoming "just don't make this mistake." Criminal charges do nothing to help anybody here.

Kindly disagree. Because everyone thinks "Oh I'll never make that accidental mistake" but it fucking happens. And when people do see that these mistakes happen quite often maybe they'll look twice at what they could be doing that can prevent it. People need to be held accountable regardless if it was an accident or not.
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TC seems to be mixing up "accidental" with "neglectful".
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DK9292 posted...

TC seems to be mixing up "accidental" with "neglectful".

So they can be different but they can't be the same gotcha
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DevsBro posted...

If I'm ever a dad, guess who's checking the back seat every time he gets out of the car, whether I think I have the kids with me or not?

Yeah, same. That's the thing though, this should be everyone's train of thought. You would think your kid(s) would be the absolute most important thing in your life.

I get being stressed or distracted or whatever. I just can't imagine being sober and being so zoned out that you aren't even aware of your immediate surroundings, or cannot even think to take a split second glance into the backseat as you exit the car. I would almost say that you shouldn't even be on the road at all if that's the case.

I think it's going to boil down to neglect pretty much no matter what. Even "I'm only going in for like 2 min max, he should be fine." Just because you thought you could get in and out quick enough and didn't want the hassle of taking the kid with you.
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DevsBro posted...

The scariest thing to me about this is how confident people are that it would be impossible for them to make the same mistake.

I mean do you think people who do leave their kids in the car love their life going "oh man I'm so gonna accidentally kill these kids someday"?

If I'm ever a dad, guess who's checking the back seat every time he gets out of the car, whether I think I have the kids with me or not?

I understand what you're saying and agree, but to say that you'll be checking the backseat even when you have no kids with you is just a flat out lie
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Veggeta_EDGE posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

But if the mistake is accidental in the first place, preventative measures aren't going to do squat. It would need to influence a behavior in order to have an effect, but there's no behavior being influenced here. It's not like encouraging people to watch the road more or pay attention to signs. We're talking about "not leaving your baby in the car." There's no behavioral correction for the preventative measure to enforce, instead becoming "just don't make this mistake." Criminal charges do nothing to help anybody here.

Kindly disagree. Because everyone thinks "Oh I'll never make that accidental mistake" but it fucking happens. And when people do see that these mistakes happen quite often maybe they'll look twice at what they could be doing that can prevent it. People need to be held accountable regardless if it was an accident or not.

Yes, accidents happen. Nobody is arguing otherwise. The question is whether punishing someone for this is useful or not. If it's meant to be preventative, then it won't be effective. People won't become more aware of whether or not they accidentally left their child in their car, because it's an accident. And there won't be a modified behavior to help prevent the accident from happening; because, again, there's no behavior they can change to better remember whether they've accidentally left the kid in the car or not. They either remember, or they accidentally forget.

It would be an utterly useless punishment that serves only to satiate people's need for someone to take the fall.
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Leight_Weight posted...

but to say that you'll be checking the backseat even when you have no kids with you is just a flat out lie

But that's the train of thought you SHOULD have.
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Link HT posted...

Veggeta X posted...

Link HT posted...

Depends on how they "killed" them honestly.

Sometimes incarceration would benefit absolutely nobody and punishment for punishment's sake is idiotic.

How about forgetting about your kid in the car and letting it die from the heat?

If you can conclusively prove it was intentional, neglectful, or even because it happened due to an intoxicated state then yes.

Otherwise there is literally no point. It's just an absolutely tragic accident that could happen to anyone living a stressful life.

Leaving a kid in the car is categorically negligence. There are no cases of a child being left in the car that aren't negligence. That's not a freak accident, it's an accident due to carelessness.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

That's not a freak accident, it's an accident due to carelessness.

High stress
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Thankfully technology is going to be solving these vehicle related deaths (either being left in the car, run over, car accidents, etc.) before long
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bump
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