Current Events > Chicago to require HS students to be accepted by college/ internship/ military

(+) Yeah! (+)

Balrog0 posted...

For people who are about to get a HS diploma? Seems unlikely they would get paid internships

My question with that, then, is if they would work with companies that offer internships to flex their requirements to attract a larger population of high school students to accommodate this change.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Chicago: "In order to get this diploma, you need a job."
Gen Z: "But I need a diploma to get a job."
Chicago: "Not my problem."

I think that is the reason they listed getting an internship as one of the possibilities rather than getting a job.

The plan is for them to do something that will lead to a career rather than work in retail or fast food.
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Zanzenburger posted...

Balrog0 posted...

For people who are about to get a HS diploma? Seems unlikely they would get paid internships

My question with that, then, is if they would work with companies that offer internships to flex their requirements to attract a larger population of high school students to accommodate this change.

Exactly.
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Bad idea

I don't want idiots on my campus
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Zanzenburger posted...

My question with that, then, is if they would work with companies that offer internships to flex their requirements to attract a larger population of high school students to accommodate this change.

I don't really understand what you mean, or exactly how its supposed to relate.

Like, the easiest way to accommodate more interns is to pay them less. What do you imagine the city or school district could do to "work with" companies in order to make them offer more jobs?
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They can still take in the same number of interns, but they would just have to allowing graduating high school students as intern candidates.

As long as they can make it to an interview they have as good a chance as anyone else of being accepted.
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Because dumbass high school or college kids who are students are easier to take advantage of than somebody looking for a paycheck.
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This seems like a good idea to be honest.

The only students who I imagine would get screwed over would be those who 1) somehow land a full time salaried position right out of high school, or 2) plan on traveling/volunteering/etc. And I'm positive that academic advisors/principals/whoever makes the final decision would grant them an exception in those cases.

fenderbender321 posted...

The thing I don't like about internships is how they're only eligible to students. After I graduated college, I looked for a job and found that a shitload of companies require an internship to get hired full-time. But you can't get an internship if you've already graduated....so it's like...what the hell? Why is a student more deserving than a graduate to have an opportunity to jump-start their career? Makes no sense. And now, we're in the territory of wage laws, and such...people never think about the downside of these things.

My point is, everyone should be eligible for unpaid/less-than-minimum-wage internships. It's these stupid laws that get passed saying employers can only offer internships to people who are eligible to earn college credits...why why why?

they're not only available to students, but adults have bills to pay and can't waste time doing a temp job for the most part.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

They can still take in the same number of interns, but they would just have to allowing graduating high school students as intern candidates.

As long as they can make it to an interview they have as good a chance as anyone else of being accepted.

This, basically.

fenderbender321 posted...

My point is, everyone should be eligible for unpaid/less-than-minimum-wage internships. It's these stupid laws that get passed saying employers can only offer internships to people who are eligible to earn college credits...why why why?

Because for a while, employers were using "interns" to do the work of regular full time workers, but without offering any benefits and paying them scraps. Like you said, wage laws and such are there to keep employers from replacing full time jobs with intern positions to save money. By tying them to college credit, it makes it easier to track who is doing what internship through college reporting. Without colleges reporting for-credit internships, the government would have no way of knowing what percentage of private companies use interns vs. full time/part time employees in their work.
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Mmmmlibtears posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

thought community college accepts everyone

so how you get acceptance letter?

As long as the check clears, you're accepted. Which was my earlier point: can the schools and staff even support this? No, no they cannot. So what, if you can't get accepted into a university and CC is full, and you refuse to work for free like a bitch cuck (intern), guess you're ass is dropping out or going to Iraq. Hm, and let's think about it, which demographic is this most likely to affect? Poor minorities? So, poor minorities will be the ones facing this choice by and far.
Guess the Democrats and liberals don't really care about them after all. Great plan, ship all of our brown people off to war. But remember, Republicans are the evil racists and Democrats are the only party that cares about minorities right?

Great plan. Truly.

*Note to mods since they've never heard of sarcasm: I am not literally saying shipping minorities off to war is a great plan

Uh, you're ignoring the trade school option. Most people itt are. This is a good idea. If you're not doing one of these things, you're on a path towards failure.

The only thing I would say is that there should be exceptions for specific circumstances, like having a good full time job right out of high school.
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fenderbender321 posted...

That's why we get rid of wage laws so that companies can pay people whatever they want. If it isn't worth training a person how to become, say, a financial analyst unless they could pay the trainee $1 an hour, then let them pay that so that people can actually have an opportunity to train. Everything sorts itself out from there in terms of prices, wages, availability, etc.

Internships were being abused *because* of the government rules in place regarding wages, internships, etc. And yes, more rules have helped to prevent that abuse, but those more rules screwed over people who want to do an internship but are no longer in college. If we just got rid of it all, like I said above, then a fair system would replace it.

And honestly, there's no way companies were paying interns that much less than what their work was worth, if it all. If an intern could come in and start doing the work of a financial analyst as good as an experienced one for $4 an hour, then the company wouldn't be paying financial analysts the salary they make. My guess is that interns were doing just basic work like organizing and other mundane tasks that the actual employees were having to do, but were just tedious and annoying, and easy enough for a child to do. Most places require employees to do those kinds of work.

And besides, heaven forbid an intern do real actual work. Isn't that kind of the point? You know...getting hands on experience? I say good for the companies that let them do that work, regardless of their pay. It's not like the college student is going to accept no pay or next to no pay after they graduate.

If I'm understanding your post correctly (and correct me if I'm not), you're saying that removing wage laws would allow companies to pay as little as they want and the workforce would naturally increase the salary based on the difficulty of the work?

This would work in an ideal economy, but the problem is that we are currently in an employer's market. There is a surplus of potential employees out there, and if we didn't have wage laws, employers could easily pay whatever they wanted, even if they weren't liveable wages, specifically because so many people are out there looking for a job. Someone would take the job, internship or not, that pays scraps because it's something, do it for a few months, and when they became experienced enough above their paygrade, their employer could sack them and get a fresh new person for the same pay.

Salaries would never increase. Employers have historically found ways to decrease employee costs, and without government regulation, they would use every loophole imaginable.

You make the assumption than an employer would pay more to have a more experienced employee. But if you find a more experienced employee willing to do it for less (and in this current market, they will), then they will have the best of both worlds. Pay very little and get desperate people needing jobs.

I'm a small business owner and I see this all the time among other small businesses down the street, cutting corners everywhere they can. I can only imagine what it's like at the corporate level.
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CowboyDan posted...

Mmmmlibtears posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

thought community college accepts everyone

so how you get acceptance letter?

As long as the check clears, you're accepted. Which was my earlier point: can the schools and staff even support this? No, no they cannot. So what, if you can't get accepted into a university and CC is full, and you refuse to work for free like a bitch cuck (intern), guess you're ass is dropping out or going to Iraq. Hm, and let's think about it, which demographic is this most likely to affect? Poor minorities? So, poor minorities will be the ones facing this choice by and far.
Guess the Democrats and liberals don't really care about them after all. Great plan, ship all of our brown people off to war. But remember, Republicans are the evil racists and Democrats are the only party that cares about minorities right?

Great plan. Truly.

*Note to mods since they've never heard of sarcasm: I am not literally saying shipping minorities off to war is a great plan

Uh, you're ignoring the trade school option. Most people itt are. This is a good idea. If you're not doing one of these things, you're on a path towards failure.

The only thing I would say is that there should be exceptions for specific circumstances, like having a good full time job right out of high school.

It would be a good idea if it didn't include the murdertary

Damn_Underscore posted...

Mmmmlibtears posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

What other option you have after graduating besides going to college, going to a trade school, getting a job/internship, joining the military and being a leech on society?

Gonna have some real limited options without a diploma. All things being equal with applicants, the person with the diploma will get picked over the one without every single time.

After graduating.

And the options may be limited now, but if the government starts to work with Chicago business to take in graduating students as interns this could really be successful.

Unless internships start paying, I just don't see it. Getting inner city Chicago youth to sign up for unpaid work is going to be a very hard sell.

Many internships are paid, in fact I would say most internships are paid.
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CowboyDan posted...

Mmmmlibtears posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

thought community college accepts everyone

so how you get acceptance letter?

As long as the check clears, you're accepted. Which was my earlier point: can the schools and staff even support this? No, no they cannot. So what, if you can't get accepted into a university and CC is full, and you refuse to work for free like a bitch cuck (intern), guess you're ass is dropping out or going to Iraq. Hm, and let's think about it, which demographic is this most likely to affect? Poor minorities? So, poor minorities will be the ones facing this choice by and far.
Guess the Democrats and liberals don't really care about them after all. Great plan, ship all of our brown people off to war. But remember, Republicans are the evil racists and Democrats are the only party that cares about minorities right?

Great plan. Truly.

*Note to mods since they've never heard of sarcasm: I am not literally saying shipping minorities off to war is a great plan

Uh, you're ignoring the trade school option. Most people itt are. This is a good idea. If you're not doing one of these things, you're on a path towards failure.

The only thing I would say is that there should be exceptions for specific circumstances, like having a good full time job right out of high school.

Not ignoring it, I lump it in with college since trade schools cost money too. A cheaper and more focused option, yes, but still hitting up students for $$$ right out of HS.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Many internships are paid, in fact I would say most internships are paid.

Even if that were true, how long do you really think that's go8ng to last? There is about to be a surplus of potential interns in the Chicago area because of this, you really think corporations aren't going to adjust the pay scale accordingly?
Supply and demand 101. The market is about to be saturated with people looking for internships, and American corporations don't exactly have a stellar history of altruism. They're going to take advantage of these kids even more than they already are.
"What, you won't accept the $3.50 ph we're offering for this internship? Cool, GTFO and tell one of the dozens of people in the waiting room to come on in."

Darklit_Minuet posted...

CowboyDan posted...

Mmmmlibtears posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

thought community college accepts everyone

so how you get acceptance letter?

As long as the check clears, you're accepted. Which was my earlier point: can the schools and staff even support this? No, no they cannot. So what, if you can't get accepted into a university and CC is full, and you refuse to work for free like a bitch cuck (intern), guess you're ass is dropping out or going to Iraq. Hm, and let's think about it, which demographic is this most likely to affect? Poor minorities? So, poor minorities will be the ones facing this choice by and far.
Guess the Democrats and liberals don't really care about them after all. Great plan, ship all of our brown people off to war. But remember, Republicans are the evil racists and Democrats are the only party that cares about minorities right?

Great plan. Truly.

*Note to mods since they've never heard of sarcasm: I am not literally saying shipping minorities off to war is a great plan

Uh, you're ignoring the trade school option. Most people itt are. This is a good idea. If you're not doing one of these things, you're on a path towards failure.

The only thing I would say is that there should be exceptions for specific circumstances, like having a good full time job right out of high school.

It would be a good idea if it didn't include the murdertary

I would agree if the military was one of two options. Its not though, and its a valid path, so its fine.
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Mmmmlibtears posted...

CowboyDan posted...

Mmmmlibtears posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

thought community college accepts everyone

so how you get acceptance letter?

As long as the check clears, you're accepted. Which was my earlier point: can the schools and staff even support this? No, no they cannot. So what, if you can't get accepted into a university and CC is full, and you refuse to work for free like a bitch cuck (intern), guess you're ass is dropping out or going to Iraq. Hm, and let's think about it, which demographic is this most likely to affect? Poor minorities? So, poor minorities will be the ones facing this choice by and far.
Guess the Democrats and liberals don't really care about them after all. Great plan, ship all of our brown people off to war. But remember, Republicans are the evil racists and Democrats are the only party that cares about minorities right?

Great plan. Truly.

*Note to mods since they've never heard of sarcasm: I am not literally saying shipping minorities off to war is a great plan

Uh, you're ignoring the trade school option. Most people itt are. This is a good idea. If you're not doing one of these things, you're on a path towards failure.

The only thing I would say is that there should be exceptions for specific circumstances, like having a good full time job right out of high school.

Not ignoring it, I lump it in with college since trade schools cost money too. A cheaper and more focused option, yes, but still hitting up students for $$$ right out of HS.

That's why loans exist, which is even more viable for trade schools. These kids need to do something. If they don't have a full time job, they absolutely need to follow one of these paths. Otherwise, they will fail and become a burden on the system.
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Sounds really stupid. I didn't read the article, but it sounds pretty easy to get an acceptance letter from any random community college since to my knowledge anyone can go to them anyway. Just says show an acceptance letter, not that you actually have to go to college. An annoyance to be sure, but doesn't seem like it's forcing them to actually go do one of those things.
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This is a great move because a high school diploma is basically TOILET PAPER in today's society. Completely worthless. So you can come on here and complain about being unemployed for 5 years because you are still living in 1950 where a high school diploma was adequate or you can get your shit together and get an education and make yourself relevant to society.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Zanzenburger posted...

If I'm understanding your post correctly (and correct me if I'm not), you're saying that removing wage laws would allow companies to pay as little as they want and the workforce would naturally increase the salary based on the difficulty of the work?

This would work in an ideal economy, but the problem is that we are currently in an employer's market. There is a surplus of potential employees out there, and if we didn't have wage laws, employers could easily pay whatever they wanted, even if they weren't liveable wages, specifically because so many people are out there looking for a job. Someone would take the job, internship or not, that pays scraps because it's something, do it for a few months, and when they became experienced enough above their paygrade, their employer could sack them and get a fresh new person for the same pay.

Salaries would never increase. Employers have historically found ways to decrease employee costs, and without government regulation, they would use every loophole imaginable.

You make the assumption than an employer would pay more to have a more experienced employee. But if you find a more experienced employee willing to do it for less (and in this current market, they will), then they will have the best of both worlds. Pay very little and get desperate people needing jobs.

I'm a small business owner and I see this all the time among other small businesses down the street, cutting corners everywhere they can. I can only imagine what it's like at the corporate level.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'll tell you why it would work. First of all, you are correct, but only if we assume all other things are equal. Eliminating wage laws would balance out the ratio of potential employees vs jobs available.

Also, if what you're saying is true about companies cutting costs to extreme levels and being able to find people to do work for so much less if it weren't for wage laws...then why do companies hire people at above minimum wage? My first job after college for example...the company wouldn't have needed to initially offer me $17 an hour to agree to work for them if there were people out there willing to do that job for $4 an hour....because with minimum wage laws, they could have gotten those people (and more) to agree to do the job for minimum wage. But they didn't. Why do you think that is?

No one would work for $4 an hour except for teenagers in school or cheap labor from outside the US.
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Mmmmlibtears posted...

Oh do shut the fuck up. If Trump, or any Republican for that matter, had even proposed this you'd be 9 shades of triggered and saying what a horrible idea it is.

no sorry. your partisan trolling tactics using an obvious joke account won't work on me. many many people need to get off their asses (people like you) and do something with their lives and this is an excellent precedence being set

Mmmmlibtears posted...

guess you're ass is dropping out or going to Iraq.

objectively ignorant

Mmmmlibtears posted...

government slavery (military). AGAIN, this doesn't help give them the means to go to college; they are just as poor as they were before this horrid idea

objectively wrong

Not surprising that some of the most clueless users on this board are for it.

I can appreciate the desire to encourage these kids to think about their future, but forcing them to make a decision that has very limited choices before they've even graduated is just an awful idea.
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AlephZero posted...

but republicans

I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the argument. Both idea are equally stupid. The difference is that one affects a single city and can be remedied by simply giving the diplomas to whoever earned them when the program falls apart. Betsy DeVos' charter school bullshit will do MUCH more widespread damage and will be impossible to fix for years, if not decades, if she and Trump get their way.
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All you have to do is be accepted at a local community college. How hard is that? Quit overreacting

KendoRe2 posted...

All you have to do is be accepted at a local community college. How hard is that? Quit overreacting

it's basically impossible for a recent high school graduate with a passing gpa to not get accepted to CC
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I like how they're basically acknowledging how utterly useless a high school degree is by itself though.
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This sounds like a terrible idea. Especially since the government (and parents) is kind of supposed to stop completely controlling your life at 18.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

I like how they're basically acknowledging how utterly useless a high school degree is by itself though.

I also like how they know they can't trust the kids themselves or the parents to prep them for life so they're forcing them to do it.
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smoliske posted...

no sorry. your partisan trolling tactics using an obvious joke account won't work on me. many many people need to get off their asses (people like you) and do something with their lives and this is an excellent precedence being set

Uh, I'm an auditor for Samsung, own my home and 2 cars. Tell me more about how I need to "get off my ass".
Sorry you lack the mental fortitude to have an actual debate or counter any of my points. GG using "Hurr durr troll I'm not gonna respond" as an excuse for having shit to argue.

And I know you libs love to just snarkily say "wrong!" without giving any reason as to why you feel (and yes, it's your feels, the irony is you don't even fucking know what "objectively wrong means LMFAO) that way.
It's all good though, continue being an absolute joke, I like to laugh :)

jborgan posted...

a decision that has very limited choices.

what other choices are there?
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Damn_Underscore posted...

jborgan posted...

a decision that has very limited choices.

what other choices are there?

how about working
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

jborgan posted...

a decision that has very limited choices.

what other choices are there?

how about working

The point of this is so that students don't see graduation as the end goal and work paycheck to paycheck for the rest of their lives.

They can work and still go to community college. And if they somehow are able to get a great full-time job I'm sure that will be an exception.
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