Poll of the Day > ATTN: Pro drug legalizers

(+) Yeah! (+)

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.



A: What exactly are you encouraging to be legalized? All drugs? Make it a total unregulated free for all?

B: Do you think drug abuse only affects the indivdual consuming the drugs?


C: Are you pro or against the FDA?

I like Bats.
---

wwinterj25 posted...

I like Bats.

me too. I didn't even realized I liked them until someone posted a gif of a baby bat eating something a while ago.

Legalize weed and let the tax money roll in. It isn't like it's any worse than alcohol.
---

Well it's mainly to try and make the drugs safer by regulating them and teaching people drug safety. The only drug i think that should be legalized is pot though. Since it is pretty much the safest drug you can use minus caffeine. It is actually extremely safe if baked into food.
---

Pretty much all of them. No. Relatively pro.
---

All drugs, it's safer for the users and, as an extension, everyone else too

Obviously not, but drug use=/=drug abuse

Pro FDA in theory, but most government agencies seem like a good idea until you realize they have no accountability since they don't have any competition so they give out a half ass product/service
---

yutterh posted...

Well it's mainly to try and make the drugs safer by regulating them and teaching people drug safety. The only drug i think that should be legalized is pot though. Since it is pretty much the safest drug you can use minus caffeine. It is actually extremely safe if baked into food.

This. I can't support drugs like herion and meth being legal.
---

AdrammeIech posted...

me too. I didn't even realized I liked them until someone posted a gif of a baby bat eating something a while ago.

They are adorable. <3
---

All plants

I'd legalize all drugs but the companies selling them would just make them dirty agaiin
---

OmegaTomHank posted...

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.

Every single time a substance is prohibited crime goes up. Every time a substance is legalized, crime goes down. Every time. 100%, it's freaky. When Toronto briefly banned "flavoured" tobacco mail fraud went up...
---

http://www.gallup.com/poll/196550/support-legal-marijuana.aspx

60% of people want weed legalized. It's time to get with the times and stop being brainwashed by government anti drug propaganda.
---

J_Dawg983 posted...

Legalize weed and let the tax money roll in. It isn't like it's any worse than alcohol.

Saying something is less bad than alcohol is setting a pretty low bar. =p
---

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.

Every single time a substance is prohibited crime goes up. Every time a substance is legalized, crime goes down. Every time. 100%, it's freaky. When Toronto briefly banned "flavoured" tobacco mail fraud went up...

Out of curiosity, how much of the crime difference is possession and usage of the illegal drugs?
---

most of the hard drug dealers i've met were that way specifically because their dad wasn't around to take care of them (probably in jail) or their mom was just a drunk lol
---

Zeus posted...

J_Dawg983 posted...

Legalize weed and let the tax money roll in. It isn't like it's any worse than alcohol.

Saying something is less bad than alcohol is setting a pretty low bar. =p

Oh yay, @Zeus is here to promote his idiotic beliefs and show his support for Prohibition.
---

KStateKing17 posted...

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.

Every single time a substance is prohibited crime goes up. Every time a substance is legalized, crime goes down. Every time. 100%, it's freaky. When Toronto briefly banned "flavoured" tobacco mail fraud went up...

Out of curiosity, how much of the crime difference is possession and usage of the illegal drugs?

That I don't know, I'd have to find the .edu, it might be on Google Scholar, and the crime being considered was just labeled violent and non-violent, so it was a little vague.
---

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.

Every single time a substance is prohibited crime goes up. Every time a substance is legalized, crime goes down. Every time. 100%, it's freaky. When Toronto briefly banned "flavoured" tobacco mail fraud went up...

Kinda crazy. If we legalized robbery, nobody would be arrested for robbery. The robbery arrests would go down by 100%. Think of how many prisons we could empty =p
---

Zeus posted...

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.

Every single time a substance is prohibited crime goes up. Every time a substance is legalized, crime goes down. Every time. 100%, it's freaky. When Toronto briefly banned "flavoured" tobacco mail fraud went up...

Kinda crazy. If we legalized robbery, nobody would be arrested for robbery. The robbery arrests would go down by 100%. Think of how many prisons we could empty =p

Well if you smoked robbers they'd probably stop
---

Erik_P posted...

Zeus posted...

J_Dawg983 posted...

Legalize weed and let the tax money roll in. It isn't like it's any worse than alcohol.

Saying something is less bad than alcohol is setting a pretty low bar. =p

Oh yay, @Zeus is here to promote his idiotic beliefs and show his support for Prohibition.

@Erik_P once again demonstrates his ignorance and disdain for sensible alcohol reform, despite the fact that it could save countless lives, greatly reduce violent crime, and reduce addiction rates.
---

Zeus posted...

Erik_P posted...

Zeus posted...

J_Dawg983 posted...

Legalize weed and let the tax money roll in. It isn't like it's any worse than alcohol.

Saying something is less bad than alcohol is setting a pretty low bar. =p

Oh yay, @Zeus is here to promote his idiotic beliefs and show his support for Prohibition.

@Erik_P once again demonstrates his ignorance and disdain for sensible alcohol reform, despite the fact that it could save countless lives, greatly reduce violent crime, and reduce addiction rates.

Let's not forget that in your mind "reform" means a "complete ban."
---

Erik_P posted...

Let's not forget that in your mind "reform" means a "complete ban."

Ya, what is it about that.

You say something like "Traffic Reform" and someone might respond "ugh, more parking tickets"

But you say something like "Gun Reform" and everyone responds" THEY WANNA TAK MA GUNS AWAYT FOREVER!!!!!!"
---

yutterh posted...

Well it's mainly to try and make the drugs safer by regulating them and teaching people drug safety. The only drug i think that should be legalized is pot though. Since it is pretty much the safest drug you can use minus caffeine. It is actually extremely safe if baked into food.

This is a completely reasonable position but this topic isnt really directed towards you.

This topic is for people who say bizarre, nonsensical things like "all drugs should be legalized"

Lokarin posted...

Erik_P posted...

Let's not forget that in your mind "reform" means a "complete ban."

Ya, what is it about that.

You say something like "Traffic Reform" and someone might respond "ugh, more parking tickets"

But you say something like "Gun Reform" and everyone responds" THEY WANNA TAK MA GUNS AWAYT FOREVER!!!!!!"

He's said on more than one occasion he thinks Prohibition was a good idea and thinks it would work if we brought it back.
---

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

Please explain your poorly rationalized position to me so I can attempt to empathize. I cant lower my ability to think logically to understand your argument.

Every single time a substance is prohibited crime goes up. Every time a substance is legalized, crime goes down. Every time. 100%, it's freaky. When Toronto briefly banned "flavoured" tobacco mail fraud went up...

This is your main argument? When is the last time a major drug has been legalized to begin with?


Because Im pretty sure the increase of crack cocaine usage, causing an epidemic in the poor neighborhoods caused a spike in crime and poverty that was not corrected until the epidemic ended

OmegaTomHank posted...

Because Im pretty sure the increase of crack cocaine usage, causing an epidemic in the poor neighborhoods caused a spike in crime and poverty that was not corrected until the epidemic ended

Actually, it was the other way around - it was the heavier restriction of crack and the lax punishment of cocaine that caused a greater rift in poor communities.
---

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

---

OmegaTomHank posted...

A: What exactly are you encouraging to be legalized? All drugs? Make it a total unregulated free for all?

My end game would look something like the US pulling out of the War on Drugs, but not necessarily abandoning regulations entirely for dangerous refined substances. For instance, I would not be opposed to requiring a type of recreational prescription for cocaine and heroin. I most certainly don't want these things showing up in food products and soft drinks.

The key point here is personal use of a plant should not be a crime. Industrial use of refined derivative substances is another matter entirely. So that will require keeping some regulations on the books.

I would take money currently being spent on the DEA and plow that into farming subsidies. This is for a very simple reason: as long as the cartels can produce a black market product cheaper than domestic, we're going to continue to have problems.

OmegaTomHank posted...

B: Do you think drug abuse only affects the indivdual consuming the drugs?

Sometimes it does only affect one person, sometimes it doesn't. It's not black and white.

Let's assume the worst, that it always has a negative ripple effect- what's worse: the system we have now, where the criminal nature of drug addiction complicates support efforts, or the system we could have where those barriers are removed?

OmegaTomHank posted...

C: Are you pro or against the FDA?

The FDA isn't perfect, but it's by a wide margin better than nothing. The FDA was established because having nothing was a disaster.



Additional Thoughts: The stifling of research into substances like LSD-25 and Psilocybin for treatment of depression and anxiety may in future decades be looked back upon as one of the great travesties of the 20th century.
---

RoboXgp89 posted...

All plants

I'd legalize all drugs but the companies selling them would just make them dirty agaiin

What?

Kungfu Kenobi posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

A: What exactly are you encouraging to be legalized? All drugs? Make it a total unregulated free for all?

My end game would look something like the US pulling out of the War on Drugs, but not necessarily abandoning regulations entirely for dangerous refined substances. For instance, I would not be opposed to requiring a type of recreational prescription for cocaine and heroin. I most certainly don't want these things showing up in food products and soft drinks.

The key point here is personal use of a plant should not be a crime. Industrial use of refined derivative substances is another matter entirely. So that will require keeping some regulations on the books.

I would take money currently being spent on the DEA and plow that into farming subsidies. This is for a very simple reason: as long as the cartels can produce a black market product cheaper than domestic, we're going to continue to have problems.

OmegaTomHank posted...

B: Do you think drug abuse only affects the indivdual consuming the drugs?

Sometimes it does only affect one person, sometimes it doesn't. It's not black and white.

Let's assume the worst, that it always has a negative ripple effect- what's worse: the system we have now, where the criminal nature of drug addiction complicates support efforts, or the system we could have where those barriers are removed?

OmegaTomHank posted...

C: Are you pro or against the FDA?

The FDA isn't perfect, but it's by a wide margin better than nothing. The FDA was established because having nothing was a disaster.



Additional Thoughts: The stifling of research into substances like LSD-25 and Psilocybin for treatment of depression and anxiety may in future decades be looked back upon as one of the great travesties of the 20th century.

Your point is far more well reasoned and thought out than most who hold this position.

So essentially you believe that selling and manufacturing certain dangerous drugs should be legal, but the usage of these drugs should be decriminalized?


The problem with your argument is what happens if people dont get a prescription to use the cocaine? What is stopping them from getting drugs on the black market and using it if they know they cant be punished

Just because something is decriminalized doesn't suddenly mean there are no laws regarding that thing.

Also, there will always be a black market for just about everything. Alcohol and cigarettes are both legal but there's a black market for both those things.
---

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

Because Im pretty sure the increase of crack cocaine usage, causing an epidemic in the poor neighborhoods caused a spike in crime and poverty that was not corrected until the epidemic ended

Actually, it was the other way around - it was the heavier restriction of crack and the lax punishment of cocaine that caused a greater rift in poor communities.

No.. it wasn't.

It wasnt just drug related crimes. Violent crimes was at an all time high with half the community strung out on crack

i should be able to take whatever i want.
---

Erik_P posted...

Just because something is decriminalized doesn't suddenly mean there are no laws regarding that thing.

Also, there will always be a black market for just about everything. Alcohol and cigarettes are both legal but there's a black market for both those things.

Correct. It's also highly illegal to sell alcohol without a license

I mean I guess you could start selling cocaine in state stores and make it illegal to use otherwise, if you for some reason think thats a good idea.

OmegaTomHank posted...

It wasnt just drug related crimes. Violent crimes was at an all time high with half the community strung out on crack

Well, it's getting late for me... but I'll give you this to read through - although IDK precisely what timeframe you are going on.

http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/cgi-bin/file?comp=none&study=3666&ds=3&file_id=649642&path=NACJD
---

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin

The rate of new HIV infections in Portugal has fallen precipitously since 2001, the year its law took effect, declining from 1,016 cases to only 56 in 2012. Overdose deaths decreased from 80 the year that decriminalization was enacted to only 16 in 2012. In the US, by comparison, more than 14,000 people died in 2014 from prescription opioid overdoses alone. Portugal's current drug-induced death rate, three per million residents, is more than five times lower than the European Union's average of 17.3, according to EU figures.

When Portugal decided to decriminalize in 2000, many skeptics assumed that the number of users would skyrocket. That did not happen. With some exceptions, including a marginal increase among adolescents, drug use has fallen over the past 15 years and now ebbs and flows within overall trends in Europe. Portuguese officials estimate that by the late 1990s roughly one percent of Portugal's population, around 100,000 people, were heroin users.

---

OmegaTomHank posted...

Your point is far more well reasoned and thought out than most who hold this position.

I got it from Hunter S. Thompson. He had a lot of time and motivation to think about it, and his philosophy on the matter shaped a lot of how I look at the issue. Some might consider his viewpoint biased, I can see that, but I think of it as experienced.
---

I'm pro legalisation if marijuana. Simple, It's safer than alcohol, will rake in tons of cash in taxes, benefit society in numerous ways and let the police and jail system focus on proper drugs. It will put lots of dealers out of business and nonviolent offenerd free. I don't get how someone could be against it when the pros outweigh the cons many times over. I'm not even a user or Marijuana and it plain to see.

Portugal should absolutely be looked at in terms of a complete decriminalization if that's what people are thinking.

Lokarin posted...

OmegaTomHank posted...

It wasnt just drug related crimes. Violent crimes was at an all time high with half the community strung out on crack

Well, it's getting late for me... but I'll give you this to read through - although IDK precisely what timeframe you are going on.

http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/cgi-bin/file?comp=none&study=3666&ds=3&file_id=649642&path=NACJD

people were robbing each other to become millionaires over night
nothing to do with people high on crack
---

if my body, my choice is the law of the land on abortion--how is it ideologically consistent to then regulate what recreational chemicals I ingest in regards to drugs, while not mandating my diet as well?
---

I want people to do whatever they want to their own bodies which is why I'm anti universal healthcare.

I'm fine with FDA regulations to make sure it's consumable to humans, but otherwise I really don't give a shit what they do.
---

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't get how someone could be against it when the pros outweigh the cons many times over.

Smells bad tho.
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't get how someone could be against it when the pros outweigh the cons many times over.

Smells bad tho.

So do fish and sewage treatment plants, but we allow both.

Will the government come to powder my work boots as well?
---

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't get how someone could be against it when the pros outweigh the cons many times over.

Smells bad tho.

Which is why it's treated like alcohol. You can only consume it at home and not drive or use it while in puiblic.

WhiskeyDisk posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Lil69Leo posted...

I don't get how someone could be against it when the pros outweigh the cons many times over.

Smells bad tho.

So do fish and sewage treatment plants, but we allow both.

Will the government come to powder my work boots as well?

Will the government force weed smokers to hot box at a treatment plant?
---

do you also think alcohol should be illegal?
---

yutterh posted...

it is pretty much the safest drug you can use minus caffeine

Hypertension and cardiac arrest related to overconsumption of caffeine is a very realy problem that nobody wants to talk about.

Meanwhile there is still no documented cases of thc overdose or thc linked health problems.

Governments don't like people expanding their minds. Thats why mushrooms are also banned despite showing strong evidence for therapeutic use and having some of the lowest toxicity of any drug.
---

All drugs should be legalized. Being illegal doesn't prevent anyone from using them, nor should the government have the right to tell consenting adults what they can and cannot put in their bodies.

Legalization would also increase safety, reduce pointless incarceration and free up prison/jail cells for actual criminals. It shouldn't necessarily be an unregulated free-for-all, but legal production of "hard" drugs would make them safer for users and those around them because they would no longer be shackled to shady drug dealers to get their fix. Likewise, being unable to keep up with legal products that are much cleaner, safer and cheaper would put 90% of dealers out of business.

As for the FDA, it has it's flaws, but it is better than nothing.
---

Smarkil posted...

I want people to do whatever they want to their own bodies which is why I'm anti universal healthcare.

I'm fine with FDA regulations to make sure it's consumable to humans, but otherwise I really don't give a shit what they do.

Being anti universal health care because you want people to do whatever they want makes no sense. Were you drunk when you made that post?
---