Poll of the Day > Spider-Geek: Homecoming

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The Wave Master
03/28/17 10:10:14 AM
#1:


And We're Back!

We didn't go anywhere, but there was a day break.

You know the rules: Post anything Geek related. Video games, comics, movies, television shows, music, board games etc.

The usual opening question to keep the topic going...

"What annoys you the most about modern gaming? What do you like the most about modern gaming? Finally, what do you miss and not miss about classic gaming?"

Wrap up from "Fantastic Geeks" coming up...
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shadowsword87
03/28/17 11:02:57 AM
#2:


Posting so I can get this in my AMP.
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The Wave Master
03/28/17 11:54:25 AM
#3:


Just in time. New Spider-Man trailer!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39udgGPyYMg

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Raganork10
03/28/17 12:00:37 PM
#4:


I'm getting tired of these Spider-Man reboots. I know this is only the third attempt in the past two decades, but still, it bothers me. And apparently this is another British actor. I guess Peter Parker was secretly from England in the comics. I don't know; I never read them.
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Smarkil
03/28/17 12:06:46 PM
#5:


Raganork10 posted...
I'm getting tired of these Spider-Man reboots. I know this is only the third attempt in the past two decades, but still, it bothers me. And apparently this is another British actor. I guess Peter Parker was secretly from England in the comics. I don't know; I never read them.


Yeah but at least this is done with Marvel running the show. There's no way it's not better than the other iterations.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/28/17 1:32:02 PM
#6:


Tag

Yeah but at least this is done with Marvel running the show. There's no way it's not better than the other iterations.


The OG 1 and 2 were perfectly fine, and Toby grew on me as PP/Spidey. Admittedly, I haven't seen the Amazing Spider-Man reboot ones.
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WastelandCowboy
03/28/17 1:42:34 PM
#7:


And with Marisa Tomei as Aunt May? Aww yiss.
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Zeus
03/28/17 1:53:46 PM
#8:


The Wave Master posted...
Just in time. New Spider-Man trailer!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39udgGPyYMg


Not terribly excited, although it looks like the character drama elements will be decent. Really not loving that Vulture costume, though. It has shades of the Giamatti Rhino and Willem Defoe Green Goblin.

Smarkil posted...
Raganork10 posted...
I'm getting tired of these Spider-Man reboots. I know this is only the third attempt in the past two decades, but still, it bothers me. And apparently this is another British actor. I guess Peter Parker was secretly from England in the comics. I don't know; I never read them.


Yeah but at least this is done with Marvel running the show. There's no way it's not better than the other iterations.


ASM1 was amazing, ASM2 had its moments. Tobey Spidey 1 & 2 were okay films despite the goofiness.

Given the quality of MCU films, I don't expect Homecoming to be better. Instead, I expect that it'll be a passable film designed more to set up another film rather than stand on its own merits. The *only* plus is that it likely won't be a retelling of the origin story.
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The Wave Master
03/28/17 1:54:39 PM
#9:


The two Amazing Spider-Man movies were decent movies. Nothing to write home about.

Personally, I'm fine with a reboot or restart or whatever if they finally get the characters, tone, and plot correct.

I love Spider-Man 2. It's not perfect, but man did they get Peter and his life right. If they do that in Homecoming then I can't really ask for more.

For me the action is secondary to his personal life and struggles. Getting that correct is far more important than the villain or action set pieces.
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Foppe
03/28/17 2:09:18 PM
#10:


Will they include Peter Parker getting molested as a kid this time?
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EvilMegas
03/28/17 2:11:24 PM
#11:


Posting so I can be in the topic still.
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Raganork10
03/28/17 2:23:10 PM
#12:


WastelandCowboy posted...
And with Marisa Tomei as Aunt May? Aww yiss.

That's probably the one redeeming quality of this one, which is one redeeming quality more than I can say for either of the ASM films. Marisa Tomei is like 50-something and still looks extremely hot.

I don't even care that she's playing someone that's supposed to look like a shriveled old granny.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/29/17 12:36:39 AM
#13:


I take back what I said about Andromeda. How since most of the scores are in the 70's range, it must truly be a game worthy of that score. But after seeing some videos of those god-awful facial animations and the pile of glitches...the gameplay and storytelling would have to be fucking next level to excuse that shit. And we know the story telling can't be good, since every cut scene/dialogue interaction has a character looking off screen into the abyss or whatever.
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The Wave Master
03/29/17 1:39:31 AM
#14:


With everyone gushing over The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild it's nice to know that there is an interesting juxtaposition.

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/god-help-me-i-dont-like-the-new-legend-of-zelda-game-1793718635

A lot of the comaints he make are a lot of the same ones I have observed watching streams of the game. (Weapons break to easily, frame rate issues, repetition.)

I finally got my hands on Breath of the Wild and The Switch this weekend when I went to see Bank Robber to discuss last minute wedding details.

The console or portable is much larger than I thought it would be with the joy cons attached. However, the overall resolution and screen quality was pretty horrible. Zelda looked like an moderate definition game, and not a high resolution 2017 flagship game.

Nevertheless, the animation and draw distance was great, but it just doesn't have the visual fidelity of a high end PC or ps4 game.
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Foppe
03/29/17 1:46:57 AM
#15:


Why do you expect the same level of graphical fidelity from a 1 TFLOP console as from a highend PC?
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Entity13
03/29/17 5:39:06 AM
#16:


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yutterh
03/29/17 6:09:21 AM
#17:


I am so stocked. Especially after that trailer. I probably won't watch anymore but i am super stocked for michael keaton. He is definitely one of my favorite actors of all time.
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The Wave Master
03/29/17 7:21:37 AM
#18:


I know that the people at Nintendo are wizards at working with an under powered consoles, but it's 2017 no game should run at less than 1080p. At least no triple A game should run at less than that resolution. Thats not to speak of the fact thatt they can't even get a steady 30 frames per second.

So yes I'm complaining, but you want me to spend upwards of 400 dollars on a new console, a game, and a SD card, I would like a little modern convinences like HD graphics, steady frame rate, a large hard drive, and the ability to charge my handheld while while playing the game.
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Foppe
03/29/17 7:45:28 AM
#19:


So a higher native resolution with less graphical fidelity is more important than a lower native resolution with more graphical fidelity?
Strange priority.
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ParanoidObsessive
03/29/17 12:46:05 PM
#20:


CyborgSage00x0 posted...
I take back what I said about Andromeda. How since most of the scores are in the 70's range, it must truly be a game worthy of that score. But after seeing some videos of those god-awful facial animations and the pile of glitches...the gameplay and storytelling would have to be fucking next level to excuse that shit. And we know the story telling can't be good, since every cut scene/dialogue interaction has a character looking off screen into the abyss or whatever.

I've said it a few times in other topics, but the main reason Andromeda isn't being savaged worse than it is is because a lot of the more positive reviews basically boil down to "Well, the combat is good, and the multiplayer works fine, so you should at least give it a try." Occasionally with a bit of "The scenery is lovely" and "The crafting and resource management stuff is effective" thrown in.

All of which sort of misses the point that absolutely none of those things are what most people are going into a Mass Effect game looking for.

Based on most reviews (even the positive ones!) and watching gameplay videos, it's pretty clear that the narrative is hot garbage. The character interactions are weak at best and bleh at worst, and they're not helped by the poor animations and voice-over work that sounds like most of the VAs were bored while reading their lines (a problem BioWare has had occasionally in the past, but more dialogues seem tonally off in this one than in any of their previous games). Add in most of the complaints about how every female character (including the protagonist) look terrible, and just how much the Dragon Age: Inquisition comparisons come into play, and the end result is something that seems to fail on every single level that would actually matter to someone who was a fan of the previous Mass Effect games.

Which probably makes sense, considering that, realistically speaking, BioWare didn't actually make this game. It was made by the Montreal branch of BioWare - which is pretty much BioWare in name only (EA being nortorious for attaching respected brand names they own to multiple dev teams as a marketing ploy) - and whose only real prior major project before this was the multiplayer component of ME3. The only "main" BioWare name attached to the project (Mac Walters) is also one of the ones responsible for the most hated part of ME3 (the ending nonsense).

Ultimately, I'm kind of looking at it as a side-story game set in the same universe - it has more in common with Galaxy or Infiltrator than it does with ME1-3. The most charitable thing I can say is that it feels like a Mass Effect game made for a completely different audience than the one the original games were made for, and on that level, it might actually be somewhat successful.

But if you're actually looking at it as someone who was a fan of the previous games, you should probably avoid it like the plague.


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ParanoidObsessive
03/29/17 1:32:03 PM
#21:


The Wave Master posted...
With everyone gushing over The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild it's nice to know that there is an interesting juxtaposition.

I actually had an epiphany about my perception of the game while watching the PreRec review of it.

Basically, the game could almost be more accurately be described as "Breadth of the Wild". Nearly all of the aspects people are praising revolve around exploration and the sheer size of the map as core gameplay. Even weapon breaking ties into that, because it forces you to experiment with new items and new methods of play rather than simply finding the most powerful sword you can and just spam the most effective attack strategies. The game wants you to explore and discover everything on your own, and wants to force you out of your comfort zone in order to make sure you're actually doing that. In some ways, it's more true to the original Legend of Zelda on the NES than anything that's come after.

But to someone like me, who rarely gives a single shit about breadth as opposed to depth, literally none of that matters, and the whole game winds up looking like a dull borefest.

In the same vein, my general disdain for platformers means that, if you were to hand me the best-designed pure platforming game ever made by the human race, I'd probably play for about 15 minutes before turning it off and never playing it again. That style of gameplay simply doesn't appeal to me, and even the best games in that genre are going to fail to tick off any of my enjoyment boxes. It'll feel like a chore at best and torture at worst, while all around me plenty of other people who actually enjoy platforming will be loving every minute (and probably hating me for "not getting it").

About the only thing that gets me to tolerate platforming at all is when it's tied to a stronger narrative, like in the Uncharted or new Tomb Raider games, where the depth of narrative can help overcome my distaste for jumping puzzles (Assassin's Creed probably falls into this category as well). In the same vein, I am CAPABLE of appreciating a massive map, exploration mechanics, and emergent gameplay IF it goes hand-in-hand with an incredible story (or at least extremely likeable characters).

If I were a professional reviewer, I'd probably be getting death threats just like Jim Sterling (or worse, because he actually LIKED Zelda, even if he shaved a few points off for the parts he didn't like - whereas I'd just outright call it boring and pointless). You don't come to me for my opinions of a game like BotW any more than you go to Yahtzee for his opinions of JRPGs. You're NOT going to get an answer that's helpful or informative in any way.


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Entity13
03/29/17 9:24:11 PM
#22:


So that was a nice visit from my boyfriend, from which things have become more . . . official between us.

Also, PO's close enough to right about the BotW thing. I love Zelda as a series, and I enjoy open worlds to an extent. However, even I am tired of the repetition within that game, the constant rainfalls that make climbing a pain, and the rate of weapon breakage which would work if the "new weapons" weren't often weaker (sometimes gimmicky) weapons (eg., a skeleton's arm or low level spear).

Here lies the real problem with the game was the massive level of hype--made worse by so many reviews and scores being so damn high--combined with the open world format and Zelda franchise as a whole. Even when it was ABOUT to come out, I knew the game would be imperfect in a number of obvious ways that were counter-immersive, or counter-intuitive to what the devs were hoping for. Yet, people continued to eat up the hype including a vast majority of reviewers I've known to do better in the past.

It's a game that touts size and the illusion of freedom, albeit not a very good illusion. There's enjoyment to be had, but there are massive chores to find every single collectible, grind materials to upgrade gear (even after you're effectively done USING said gear), grind money for things you need, and all if you want to try to 100% the game. Quests are MOSTLY fetch quests, which give barely enough, if that, as a reward for your efforts. A couple of the "main" objectives are optional if you're adventurous enough to run straight into the final battle. Replayability is nil to anyone who ISN'T a speed runner, somehow made worse by the inability to make a new file of the game unless you either delete the old one or make a new profile on your system. Literally the last nail in the coffin of the so-called freedom in this game was when someone--on Youtube I think it was, not a Nintendo employee--responded to the critique about weapons breaking by saying that anyone who doesn't like it is playing the game wrong, but any of us should be able to argue how wrong that is for a game that tries to advertise its alleged freedom.

Yes, I like the game, but good gods, people! It's not worth sending death threats to those who dissent, or the ridiculing of those who have legitimate arguments to the contrary of your own views. I sincerely hope it loses every GotY countdown this year, not out of any sort of hatred for the game, but for a stark comparison of how people's views are just as ever-changing as they are shit whenever they neglect to use their brains.

Also, believe me, I get the idea of wanting to kick back and enjoy a medium of entertainment without overthinking anything. When so many people swarm over something like BotW, however? The odds of me being unable to do just that actually increase, and I find myself becoming critical of a game, book, movie, or album's flaws that much quicker. I still would have noticed things wrong with BotW in time, but my enjoyment of it would have lasted longer if people didn't do the hive-minded people thing that people often do.
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Metalsonic66
03/29/17 9:33:53 PM
#23:


The Wave Master posted...
The two Amazing Spider-Man movies were decent movies. Nothing to write home about.

Agreed. I thought both the Raimi trilogy and the Amazing movies did things that I liked, and things that I didn't.

MCU version is looking to have the best of both worlds.
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Entity13
03/29/17 10:04:03 PM
#24:


One slightly annoying thing to the Sam Raimi Spiderman movies, though, that isn't about the movies themselves:

The lead developer of FFXIV, Yoshi-P, has a habit of showing up to Fanfests with a shirt relating to a job that will be revealed the next Fanfest or Live Letter. For instance, he wore a Batman shirt before revealing Dark Knight, Scarlet Witch before Red Mage, and a 007 (with a gun for the 7) shirt before Machinist. He also prefers the Sam Raimi Spiderman films. Well... he wore a shirt with Spiderman's mask on it, and it was discovered that the reasoning went Spiderman -> Sam Raimi -> Samurai. Meanwhile, lots of people hoping for Blue Mage have been shafted for Sotrmblood sice it's only giving the two new DPS jobs.
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Zeus
03/29/17 10:31:46 PM
#25:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
Basically, the game could almost be more accurately be described as "Breadth of the Wild". Nearly all of the aspects people are praising revolve around exploration and the sheer size of the map as core gameplay. Even weapon breaking ties into that, because it forces you to experiment with new items and new methods of play rather than simply finding the most powerful sword you can and just spam the most effective attack strategies. The game wants you to explore and discover everything on your own, and wants to force you out of your comfort zone in order to make sure you're actually doing that. In some ways, it's more true to the original Legend of Zelda on the NES than anything that's come after.


Ha.

Honestly, that's one of the things which appeals to me the most since previous Zeldas have felt small and linear compared to the earlier games which had more of an impression of a full world. At this point, I'm honestly not sure how long I'll wait to get a Switch for it.

Entity13 posted...
Replayability is nil to anyone who ISN'T a speed runner, somehow made worse by the inability to make a new file of the game unless you either delete the old one or make a new profile on your system


Well, that's ridiculous.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/29/17 10:51:58 PM
#26:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
Basically, the game could almost be more accurately be described as "Breadth of the Wild". Nearly all of the aspects people are praising revolve around exploration and the sheer size of the map as core gameplay. Even weapon breaking ties into that, because it forces you to experiment with new items and new methods of play rather than simply finding the most powerful sword you can and just spam the most effective attack strategies. The game wants you to explore and discover everything on your own, and wants to force you out of your comfort zone in order to make sure you're actually doing that. In some ways, it's more true to the original Legend of Zelda on the NES than anything that's come after.

The bulk of the durability complaints comes from breaking weapons too easily rather than the durability mechanic. Which is a fair enough complaint, although people seem generally unaware that lower-tier weapons break much more easily against tougher monster. That said, plenty of people (like Yatzee) have (rightfully) complained of games in the past giving you many weapons/skills/magic options, only to also include a handful that are so good that they outshine and outclass the others, breaking the entire point of having a bunch of weapons to choose from.

Thus, it was very wise for BotW to make every weapon, no matter how good, breakable. The lone exception is the Master Sword, which you can't get until late in the, and which actually can "break" from overuse, in a way-it will become dull and unusable from too much use, but it slowly heals itself back to full power over time of non-use.
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Entity13
03/29/17 11:14:14 PM
#27:


CyborgSage00x0 posted...
Thus, it was very wise for BotW to make every weapon, no matter how good, breakable. The lone exception is the Master Sword, which you can't get until late in the


Well, late in the send that you need to have done enough shrines to get your heart containers up to a minimum of 13, which is honestly pretty easy (albeit time consuming).

Then there are tribe specific weapons you can get from beating the few main story dungeons, which can still break but then be remade for a material cost. The Zora one isn't even strong, but it's useful for opening one whole shrine.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 12:19:18 AM
#28:


Entity13 posted...
and the rate of weapon breakage which would work if the "new weapons" weren't often weaker (sometimes gimmicky) weapons (eg., a skeleton's arm or low level spear).

Not true. Weapon strength scales with area and your level progression of the game. You'll eventually see darker and then silver level enemies, who hold higher quality stuff. If you go back to the Great Plateau and kill a 13HP bokoblin, then yeah, it's going to drop crap. But the weapon strength remains consistent to where you are in the game.

And I never picked up a skeleton arm after like, the first hour of the game. You get enough weapon options thrown at you to not really need them.

It's a game that touts size and the illusion of freedom, albeit not a very good illusion.

How do you mean by that? There IS total freedom, which is why critics and the like are fawning over the game, because it'll likely become a template on how to do open world games properly for years to come. There is no illusion; you can go whichever way you like, right away, hell, straight to the final boss if you like. That IS freedom, which is not only striking for the open world genre itself, but for the Zelda series, considering it's always been linear before hand.

There's enjoyment to be had, but there are massive chores to find every single collectible, grind materials to upgrade gear (even after you're effectively done USING said gear), grind money for things you need, and all if you want to try to 100% the game.


This statement is basically worthless. By the nature of having to "100%" a game, it will ALWAYS be a grind. And the psychopaths that like to 100% games to begin with, they are already well aware of the time and grind that goes into it. The only real thing that would be absolutely maddening to 100% would be finding every.single.Korok, because I think there are 900 of them in the game. But everything you described is standard RPG stuff, and honestly, money in materials are WAY easier to come by than virtually any other game.

...by the inability to make a new file of the game unless you either delete the old one or make a new profile on your system.


This is indeed a truly perplexing thing, not sure why the hell only one save file is available. To me, it has weaker replay anyways, because the one drawback of large, open world games is so much of the fun is in the mystery and exploration, and once you've already done it, it'll take a long time before you forget a lot of the locations and enchantment. Which is fine for me anyways, because I never understood the mentality of instantly jumping back into a long single player game anyways.

Literally the last nail in the coffin of the so-called freedom in this game was when someone--on Youtube I think it was, not a Nintendo employee--responded to the critique about weapons breaking by saying that anyone who doesn't like it is playing the game wrong, but any of us should be able to argue how wrong that is for a game that tries to advertise its alleged freedom.


They have a point, though. Like how I find your comment on grinding for rupees to be perplexing, since it to me means you must have ignored the 4 billion ore deposit locations in the game, which are worth obscene amounts of money. And it's not like it's a big thing to mine them; throwing a bomb at one and taking literally 2 seconds to pick up the spoils is all it takes, you don't need to even alter your current path. I had a fucking stock pile of gems and ore before I even got to the point where I knew what they were used for. So yeah, it's going to come off as a grind if you are short on rupees late game and you ignored the numerous chances the game gave you to make money, and more specifically, make money easily.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 12:31:11 AM
#29:


Entity13 posted...
Yes, I like the game, but good gods, people! It's not worth sending death threats to those who dissent, or the ridiculing of those who have legitimate arguments to the contrary of your own views.

Well yeah, death threats and the like are never acceptable. But welcome to the new-age fandom of, well, everything. If you're in the public eye in any form in this day and age, you can expect to get death threats for literally doing anything-or even nothing. Which is why I kinda roll my eyes when people announce they have gotten death threats over something. Yeah? Welcome to being a public figure in 20XX.

I sincerely hope it loses every GotY countdown this year, not out of any sort of hatred for the game, but for a stark comparison of how people's views are just as ever-changing as they are shit whenever they neglect to use their brains.


I wouldn't hold your breath over that, seeing as BotW is the highest rated game EVER (in terms of most perfects), and one of the highest ever in terms of average score. It'd take a wild game to dethrone it, and there doesn't look to be any on the horizon this year.

The odds of me being unable to do just that actually increase, and I find myself becoming critical of a game, book, movie, or album's flaws that much quicker. I still would have noticed things wrong with BotW in time, but my enjoyment of it would have lasted longer if people didn't do the hive-minded people thing that people often do.


Which is kinda lame of you, honestly. Hating on the thing that is popular for the sake of it being popular, and to be in dissent just to spite others is a silly cliche that you are better than. It makes you no better than the people you criticize for being "hiveminds" in addition, since you're both having a reaction to the game that isn't derived from the actual merits of the game itself, you know?



Random input: I finally found out how to look up playtime on the Switch. I put in 110+ hours into BotW before I laid it to rest. Which is astonishing to me, since while I knew I had been playing it nearly day and night since it came out, it didn't ever feel like that much time had past. Even though I really loved Xenoblade Chronicles, towards the end, some of the things felt like a slog/timesink, where I became aware of the time that was needed to finish up the things I wanted to. I put about 120 hours into that game. But at no point in BotW for me did I feel the time actually passed. Apparently, I was enthralled from beginning to end.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 12:37:14 AM
#30:


Entity13 posted...
Well, late in the send that you need to have done enough shrines to get your heart containers up to a minimum of 13, which is honestly pretty easy (albeit time consuming).

I wouldn't exactly call it easy, either. Not counting the 3 hearts you get to start, you'd need to complete 40 shrines (1/3 of the total amount in the game), and that's also assuming you spend none on stamina (also assumes you don't beat any Divine Beats in between, though).

Then there are tribe specific weapons you can get from beating the few main story dungeons, which can still break but then be remade for a material cost. The Zora one isn't even strong, but it's useful for opening one whole shrine.


22 on a spear ain't shabby, considering the high end for spears is about 30. Then again, the 1st region I did was the Zoras, so having the Lightscale Trident early on was pretty beastly. I do think the unique area items should have had better overall durability, though. That said, the Gerudo items were the best.
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Foppe
03/30/17 12:51:07 AM
#31:


Entity13 posted...
So that was a nice visit from my boyfriend, from which things have become more . . . official between us.


Congrats.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 1:01:33 AM
#32:


Foppe posted...
Entity13 posted...
So that was a nice visit from my boyfriend, from which things have become more . . . official between us.


Congrats.

Also, this.
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knivesX2004
03/30/17 2:36:18 AM
#33:


Tag
also 6 days until Persona 5.
My body is so ready.
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The Wave Master
03/30/17 7:10:21 AM
#34:


I was just about to say; "I see your Breath of the Wild and raise it Persona 5."

I guess the problem a lot of us have with the gushing and glowing reviews of Breath of the Wild is that the final "Perfect" or "Near Perfect" review scores is that they seem to ignore a lot of the flaws with the game.

For comparison go back and look at the Halo 5 reviews. Reviewers complained endlessly about the resolution of the game.

"What do you mean Halo 5 isn't running at 60fps and 1080p? It's Halo!!!"

Therefore, why does Zelda get a pass? Because the other games in the series were endlessly linear, and this one isn't? There just seems to be a double standard.
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Foppe
03/30/17 7:43:16 AM
#35:


Some bigname IPs always gets a free pass.
The Skyrim reviews got high scores, and they based it on how much better the game could be if Bethesda fixed the glitches.
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Raganork10
03/30/17 11:23:42 AM
#36:


Thing with Breath of the Wild is that it's the truest Zelda since the original. These games were always supposed to be about exploration, and the series was stuck in a loop of Ocarina-esque games for nearly two decades, and those games are basically Disneyland tours. Next stop on the Disneyland Express: Goron Mountain Zone. What do you mean you want to go wherever you want? You don't have your horse, so how can you expect to jump this thigh-high fence? Follow the story in this exact order and you'll eventually be able to access that area.

Terrible. That's why I never enjoyed the Zelda games. The story in Zelda has always bogged the games down, because all I want is to explore and discover secrets for myself. I wanted an Indiana Jones style of game, which, yeah, I shouldn't expect games to be made a certain way, but when your series starts out as true adventure games, and then devolves into these boring, story-driven slogs that all play out the same, how can you expect me to stick around?

Anyway, glad Persona 5 is drawing near. I've been craving a Persona for a while now.
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ParanoidObsessive
03/30/17 11:33:42 AM
#37:


Zeus posted...
Honestly, that's one of the things which appeals to me the most since previous Zeldas have felt small and linear compared to the earlier games which had more of an impression of a full world.

And like I said, I can honestly understand why some players absolutely love that sort of thing (especially the sort who really only have time to drop into a game for a few hours, play, then drop out again rather than push their way through a 100 hour+ narrative epic).

But it's pretty much the opposite of what I want out of games. I'd rather have a smaller sandbox with stricter limitations but a lot of really enjoyable moments than a vast sandbox and unlimited freedom but a dearth of reasons to actually care about any of it.

Minecraft's one of the very few "free and open" sort of games I enjoy playing at all, and that mostly only because I force myself to come up with new objectives every time I play. And even then, I'd still rather play more structured games most of the time (these days, I mostly only ever play Minecraft when my niece and nephew visit, and more because she wants to play than because he does).



Zeus posted...
Entity13 posted...
somehow made worse by the inability to make a new file of the game unless you either delete the old one or make a new profile on your system

Well, that's ridiculous.

That's pretty much Nintendo's entire MO, though. For all the good things they do (if you're into them), stubborn refusal to give in to player convenience or otherwise use "common sense" for certain things is pretty much their go-to strategy.


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ParanoidObsessive
03/30/17 11:49:16 AM
#38:


CyborgSage00x0 posted...
Which is kinda lame of you, honestly. Hating on the thing that is popular for the sake of it being popular, and to be in dissent just to spite others is a silly cliche that you are better than. It makes you no better than the people you criticize for being "hiveminds" in addition, since you're both having a reaction to the game that isn't derived from the actual merits of the game itself, you know?

To be fair, when a large vocal core to a fanbase are annoying as fuck or otherwise repulsive human beings, it's a very natural and justified response to basically ask yourself "Man, if THESE shitbags all love this thing, then what does that say about its quality?" Then you sort of get put into the headspace where you're far more likely to notice the flaws in the work, while glossing over the good parts. It's not necessarily a conscious rejection of it BECAUSE it's popular, as much as it is WHO it's popular worth warping your perception of it.

In some ways, it's similar to how people find out that Orson Scott Card was pretty anti-gay, and find it prevents them from enjoying his writing, or when Mel Gibson had his little tirade about women and Jews and people became less inclined to want to see anything he makes. Or even how wrestling fans who used to praise Chris Benoit matches for being technical marvels now find it hard to watch any of them knowing that he killed his wife and son and then himself. Just as it's hard for most people to separate the creator's beliefs and actions from their work, it can occasionally be hard to separate the beliefs and actions of a work's most ardent and fervent fans from the work itself.

Hell, on a more complicated philosophical level, that's more or less what started my own path towards Agnosticism. After spending a while considering myself an Atheist, I started looking around and noticing just how asinine and terrible a lot of Atheists actually were (especially once you get on the Internet and start having a much wider range of view than just "the people who live near where I do"). That pretty much started me down an introspective path, where I basically asked myself, "If THESE are the sorts of people who consider themselves morally and intellectually superior for this belief, what does that say about this belief itself?" That in turn made me take a much harder look at the logical fallacies of the ideology and the ideas behind it, ultimately leading me to conclude that the only real philosophy that makes sense is Agnosticism. Because, ultimately, we can't really PROVE a negative, nor are we as a species half as clever as we think we are, so who the hell knows what's really out there, or what really happens when you die?

I tend to disbelieve in organized religion (but I try not to be as much of a pompous jackass about it as a lot of the Internet Angstheists tend to be), and I'm a bit of a secularist (I tend to prefer rational explanations for things over supernatural ones, but also I tend to feel that, regardless of whether or not there's a soul and an afterlife, from OUR perspective, what happens HERE and NOW are far more important anyway, because we lack the empirical knowledge for the alternative to matter), but I also like to acknowledge that any definitive statements about the true nature of the universe are kind of ignorant and egotistical on our part.

Or to put it another way, "The truly wise man is the man who knows that he actually knows nothing."

And because Agnosticism basically boils down to "Ehh, fuck if I know" as a belief set, it's hard to judge other people for their beliefs. Maybe they're right. Maybe they're wrong. And maybe it isn't all that important.


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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 4:28:04 PM
#39:


The Wave Master posted...
I guess the problem a lot of us have with the gushing and glowing reviews of Breath of the Wild is that the final "Perfect" or "Near Perfect" review scores is that they seem to ignore a lot of the flaws with the game.

That's all games considered a 10/10, though. There's always going to be a list of things that could have been done ever-so-slightly better, and I have a list I could rattle off for BotW for sure. But these tiny issues usually don' add up or amount to much, so no need to dock points for it. No game could ever get a "perfect" score otherwise.

And some things people are calling flaws, really aren't. Someone may not like the durability weapon system, for example, but that's not a objective flaw, because that was implemented on purpose. If it was implemented poorly, then that's another thing all together.

For comparison go back and look at the Halo 5 reviews. Reviewers complained endlessly about the resolution of the game.

"What do you mean Halo 5 isn't running at 60fps and 1080p? It's Halo!!!"


If I had to guess, I would say Halo 5 was likely promised to run at 60fps and 1080p before launch, so if it broke that promise, then people are going to rake them over the coals for it. The significance of resolution also matters more since a large reason why anyone even buys Halo games is the multiplayer, something BotW doesn't have.

To be fair, when a large vocal core to a fanbase are annoying as fuck or otherwise repulsive human beings, it's a very natural and justified response to basically ask yourself "Man, if THESE shitbags all love this thing, then what does that say about its quality?"


But who cares, though? These people have no real-world power or presence. It's not like they are out protesting in the streets over weapon durability. They are confined to message boards such as this one, where they can be safely ignored if you wish to ignore them. Not to mention, there's no such thing as a fanbase that DOESN'T have a "large vocal core"; there are only variations of such (like how XBox Live gets a bad rep.). Unless these people are directly hindering your ability to enjoy a game, you have no reason to engage them or let them influence. You're just doing it to yourself at that point.


In some ways, it's similar to how people find out that Orson Scott Card was pretty anti-gay, and find it prevents them from enjoying his writing, or when Mel Gibson had his little tirade about women and Jews and people became less inclined to want to see anything he makes.


Not close in enough ways to be a good comparison. This is comparing the stances of 1 person, the creator of the content, vs. thousands or millions of fans, who don't create the content. While I believe in separating the art from the artist (and thus the transgressions of OSC and Gibson don't distract me from their art), I can get not wanting to support or not being able to enjoy a game/book/film because you consider the person behind it to be vile. Voting with your wallet, and all. But it's inane to have that same reaction to thousands of fans, whom you have no control over and will rarely, if ever affect the art in question itself.
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shadowsword87
03/30/17 4:45:36 PM
#40:


CyborgSage00x0 posted...
Someone may not like the durability weapon system, for example, but that's not a objective flaw, because that was implemented on purpose


What do you think reviews are then? Objective perspectives on the game only? Like if you're super into Anti-Aliasing, and that's what makes a game good or not, you have a skewed perspective on games, despite it being an objective statistic, it still will make your reviews really weird.

The only thing that people can really go off of is their oppinion, because even stats for a game can be ignored if you just really like the story. The same way I really, really don't like weapon degradation, like I honestly do, so anything where weapon degredation is a major factor in how you play is awful to me.
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ParanoidObsessive
03/30/17 5:35:07 PM
#41:


CyborgSage00x0 posted...
But it's inane to have that same reaction to thousands of fans, whom you have no control over and will rarely, if ever affect the art in question itself.

But you're missing the point. What I'm describing is more of a process.

Basically, first you realize that something has a lot of shitheel fans. The next step is wondering exactly what about the work in question causes those sorts of people to be fans in the first place. At that point, once your critical eye in engaged, you start to see the flaws more easier while glossing over the positives. You may notice negatives you never realized before, and your opinion of the thing is lowered. Conversely, if you experience the terrible fans BEFORE the thing in question, you may find yourself completely unable to appreciate it at all because of that same perception, whereas, if you'd been exposed to it in a vacuum, you might have been more open to enjoying it.

In essence, the terrible fans have caused you to look at the thing in a new light, and thus, your subjective perception of the thing is absolutely changed.

And because art and entertainment are almost entirely subjective, changing someone's perception of a thing absolutely changes the value of that thing.

I'm not saying that "I dislike a product because I dislike its creator" as much as "My distaste for a creator/fans/social movements/etc has led me to be more critically aware of the flaws."

Yes, I'm sure a lot of people are just viscerally reacting to the fans and going "I hate these people, therefore, I will now deliberately hate the thing they love". But I'm also suggesting there IS a potential middle ground there, where someone is really only reacting to the work itself but STILL being affected by the shittiness of those fans.


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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 5:39:55 PM
#42:


shadowsword87 posted...
What do you think reviews are then? Objective perspectives on the game only?

Yes, or they are supposed to be. We all know they really aren't in some ways, but you have to ground your opinions in something, otherwise you could come up with all kinds of wacky ways to knock a game. "Oh, Link can't equip a gun or rob a bank in BotW, 7/10 game."

Like PO said, you may not like a certain genre/game, no matter how other people view, which is fine. But if your job is to review games for the general public, saying "Mario 2/10: Cause it's a platformer, and I don't like those" helps literally no one. Now, if you dislike how a particular mechanic is implemented in a game, or the mechanic flat out doesn't work/hinders the game, that's different altogether.
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CyborgSage00x0
03/30/17 5:53:52 PM
#43:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
Basically, first you realize that something has a lot of shitheel fans. The next step is wondering exactly what about the work in question causes those sorts of people to be fans in the first place. At that point, once your critical eye in engaged, you start to see the flaws more easier while glossing over the positives. You may notice negatives you never realized before, and your opinion of the thing is lowered. Conversely, if you experience the terrible fans BEFORE the thing in question, you may find yourself completely unable to appreciate it at all because of that same perception, whereas, if you'd been exposed to it in a vacuum, you might have been more open to enjoying it.

AH, but you forget this system is binary, and at the other end of the spectrum you have the "superfans": Those that are going to nitpick over trivial things with a fine-toothed comb, and tend to blow perceived flaws out of proportion. When you use a critical eye to engage them on THAT, you tend to find that they are fill of shit, and have no merit to their claims at all. There's numerous ways of being a terrible fan, in essence.

Which brings me back to my point: Don't engage with these fans. There's no reason to, and no one is forcing you. It's analogous to how you and I don't care about "professional" reviewers to being with; we don't let what THEY have to say affect what WE like. But some people (like my dad) do heavily lean on reviews, to the point where it can change or distort their desire to see/read/play something, let alone how they perceive the media. That's their choice, though, they don't have to let outside forces manipulate their opinions. This is the same thing with these fans.

It's also why I almost never, ever visit game boards on Gamefaqs, because it's nothing but a cesspool of the superfans clans battling it out and shitposting each other, leaving anyone not belonging to the various factions caught in the crossfire.
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The Wave Master
03/31/17 12:00:30 AM
#44:


Joss Whedon is on the short list, basically it's a done deal, to write and direct a Batgirl movie for Warner Brothers and DC.

It's not a bad choice considering Marvel killed his hopes and dreams after Avwnhers 2. Which wasn't that bad of a mpvie, but it wasn't that good either. Middle ground effort because of a lot of studio interference. Basically the Spider-Man 3 effect.

I don't know why he thinks it's going to be different across town. The grass isn't always greener, but Warner Brothers needs a hit in their Snyder Murder Verse, and Whedon is a big Geeky name.

Let's see how much rope they give him....
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WhiskeyDisk
03/31/17 12:01:27 AM
#45:


i've been on a retro gaming kick lately for a variety of reasons, and silly me, i started dabbling in Suikoden...wow, this game gets heavy quickly.
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Raganork10
03/31/17 1:47:23 AM
#46:


Suikoden is retro? Sounds odd coming from you, Whiskey. I'd assumed retro for you was something more along the lines of Mah Jong, Shuffleboard, or Chinese Checkers.
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Metalsonic66
03/31/17 8:45:35 AM
#47:


The Wave Master posted...
Joss Whedon is on the short list, basically it's a done deal, to write and direct a Batgirl movie for Warner Brothers and DC.

I'd watch it. Would it be connected to the DCEU?

And honestly both his Avengers movies were fantastic. Really disappointed that he's not going to direct at least one of the Infinity War movies, but at least the Russo bros. did a great job juggling a bunch of characters in Civil War.
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WhiskeyDisk
03/31/17 12:50:48 PM
#48:


Raganork10 posted...
Suikoden is retro? Sounds odd coming from you, Whiskey. I'd assumed retro for you was something more along the lines of Mah Jong, Shuffleboard, or Chinese Checkers.


laugh all you like Raga, but the music in this game is so good it makes me forget i'm playing a game that's pushing 23 years old.
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Raganork10
03/31/17 1:06:22 PM
#49:


Yeah, Suikoden 1 is pretty good, and 2 is outstanding. The music is one of the things that didn't really stick out for me, but the sound effects... those menu bleeps and bloops, and those attack sounds are eargasmic.
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The Wave Master
03/31/17 1:06:27 PM
#50:


Suikoden and Suikoden II are some of the best games you can play, retro or otherwise.
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