Board 8 > Anagram's D&D Topic - Eight is the Loneliest Number

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KanzarisKelshen
07/18/12 3:54:00 PM
#401:


From: Sceptilesolar | #400
Sometimes the plot has to take a backseat to convenience, though... My main motivation for wanting the timeskip disappeared, but I would have rather have had the timeskip and accept an implausible justification.


Right, but this went a little past implausible and more into 'we videogames now, take three years before proceeding with the main quest'. If everybody had been explicitly OK with that I would have had less of a problem, but as things were it seemed like nobody was aware of the consequences and I really didn't want to get 'gotcha''d into everybody dying. Remember that, at that point, we had suffered a bunch of gotchas that were still fresh on my mind.

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SovietOmega
07/18/12 3:55:00 PM
#402:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
From: SovietOmega | #383
Yeah, well, Jimmy doesn't share his toys and Mommy can't seem to afford the latest and greatest so Jimmy becomes the house we all have to meet at. We try to sell bottlecaps and deliver papers, but we just can't earn enough to have what Jimmy does. It isn't so much being childish as pointing out the disparity between players. Ana slips in new artifact without batting an eyelash, for anyone else he responds with 'well I just don't know how to work it in yet'.

Or maybe noone has really presented him with a complete artifact ready for introduction?

Kan is sorta the unofficial artifact maker, and I know I have worked with him to produce things like Vega's dagger and Lloyd's thing.


Ding ding ding ding. You want the artifact, do the homework. I was asked to stat out the BoK and did so. I then wanted to do something less broken and wrote it up. It's more like 'Jimmy made himself a new toy and I don't have one like his', really.


You also have a better grasp of some of the more nuanced rules. Which is why I have consulted you when I have had artifact ideas I want to see manifest in a fair manner. Even when doing so, they seem to take ages to get introduced even when they are considered ready to go. Admittedly, Xeno might have his hammer by now if I didn't have to go through several weeks of absence, but the point remains that it may or many not be a near future thing for me or any other character, while Valerian has never had to wait long if at all.

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IhatethisCPU
07/18/12 4:03:00 PM
#403:


...In all honesty, still trying to make Radiant One work IC. Kirie doesn't want power or recognition of any sort, and the eventual full on eldritch abomination thing doesn't sit well with her. She has enough problems with the Soul Killer thing, and that rarely comes up if ever.

Never mind my problems with the stupidness that is every class feature past the 21 resistances one.

And apologies about the delayed theme list, Ana. Still working on 'em, but trying to get more diversity this time. ^_^'

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KanzarisKelshen
07/18/12 4:05:00 PM
#404:


From: SovietOmega | #402
KanzarisKelshen posted...
From: SovietOmega | #383
Yeah, well, Jimmy doesn't share his toys and Mommy can't seem to afford the latest and greatest so Jimmy becomes the house we all have to meet at. We try to sell bottlecaps and deliver papers, but we just can't earn enough to have what Jimmy does. It isn't so much being childish as pointing out the disparity between players. Ana slips in new artifact without batting an eyelash, for anyone else he responds with 'well I just don't know how to work it in yet'.

Or maybe noone has really presented him with a complete artifact ready for introduction?

Kan is sorta the unofficial artifact maker, and I know I have worked with him to produce things like Vega's dagger and Lloyd's thing.


Ding ding ding ding. You want the artifact, do the homework. I was asked to stat out the BoK and did so. I then wanted to do something less broken and wrote it up. It's more like 'Jimmy made himself a new toy and I don't have one like his', really.


You also have a better grasp of some of the more nuanced rules. Which is why I have consulted you when I have had artifact ideas I want to see manifest in a fair manner. Even when doing so, they seem to take ages to get introduced even when they are considered ready to go. Admittedly, Xeno might have his hammer by now if I didn't have to go through several weeks of absence, but the point remains that it may or many not be a near future thing for me or any other character, while Valerian has never had to wait long if at all.


I think that's just because I've trailblazed stuff, mostly. That doesn't totally excuse things but it explains them.

From: IhatethisCPU | #403
...In all honesty, still trying to make Radiant One work IC. Kirie doesn't want power or recognition of any sort, and the eventual full on eldritch abomination thing doesn't sit well with her. She has enough problems with the Soul Killer thing, and that rarely comes up if ever.

Never mind my problems with the stupidness that is every class feature past the 21 resistances one.

And apologies about the delayed theme list, Ana. Still working on 'em, but trying to get more diversity this time. ^_^'


To be fair, no ED fits me either. I just kinda shrug and move on myself.

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SovietOmega
07/18/12 4:17:00 PM
#405:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
From: Sceptilesolar | #400
Sometimes the plot has to take a backseat to convenience, though... My main motivation for wanting the timeskip disappeared, but I would have rather have had the timeskip and accept an implausible justification.


Right, but this went a little past implausible and more into 'we videogames now, take three years before proceeding with the main quest'. If everybody had been explicitly OK with that I would have had less of a problem, but as things were it seemed like nobody was aware of the consequences and I really didn't want to get 'gotcha''d into everybody dying. Remember that, at that point, we had suffered a bunch of gotchas that were still fresh on my mind.


I did not get the sense that there was a ticking clock, or rather, if there were, it would be oriented in such a fashion as to permit a timeskip. That is not to say that the plot has to wait on us forever, but a reasonable amount of leniency can be imposed with enough justification (resource shortages, minion incompetence, monsters, other such unforeseen circumstances that would prevent an otherwise perfect timeframe from happening). It could have been that a prolonged wait might have opened the doors to a unique quest or opportunity that otherwise would not have occurred.

Basically, it is not 'not thinking of the ramifications' as much as it is knowing how ana seems to run things. We routinely have shaved off weeks of travel time (something not many adventurers can claim), but the plot does not feel too much different. Perhaps it would have played out differently, but time feels almost a nonfactor unless the event is grand enough (and no, that is not an invitation to introduce mass timed events Ana >_>)

If a plot is so constrictive that it prevents any meaningful RP, then the plot is probably not very good. Yes, we are heroes and should save the world, but if we have to sacrifice player fun, then why play the game? We aren't here to speedrun the plot, but to experience the plot and the characters in it.

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Anagram
07/18/12 4:21:00 PM
#406:


Could you guys please each post your intended ED, and what book it is found in? I know Kan is planning Demigod and that's in PHB, but I don't know where the other EDs you guys are planning are, or even what ED each of you want.

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KanzarisKelshen
07/18/12 4:23:00 PM
#407:


From: Anagram | #406
Could you guys please each post your intended ED, and what book it is found in? I know Kan is planning Demigod and that's in PHB, but I don't know where the other EDs you guys are planning are, or even what ED each of you want.


I'm actually not sure about Demigod - I'm just falling back on it because it's pretty vanilla, but we'll see what goes.

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Sceptilesolar
07/18/12 4:24:00 PM
#408:


Why do you want Radiant One anyway, thinking about it? It's a great ED, but the features don't seem to mesh well with your style.

I mean, for one, there's the obvious Fatesinger pick. But there are a lot of awesome other EDs Kirie qualifies for.

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Sceptilesolar
07/18/12 4:26:00 PM
#409:


From: Anagram | #406
Could you guys please each post your intended ED, and what book it is found in? I know Kan is planning Demigod and that's in PHB, but I don't know where the other EDs you guys are planning are, or even what ED each of you want.


'Draconic Incarnation' (though note that I object to the flavor; I like Avatar of Storm's a lot better but it's 100% impossible to qualify for). It is from Dragon #388.


Anyway Kanz if you exploit the 'well the old version of the capstone wasn't errataed' I will punch you.

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KanzarisKelshen
07/18/12 4:26:00 PM
#410:


From: SovietOmega | #405
KanzarisKelshen posted...
From: Sceptilesolar | #400
Sometimes the plot has to take a backseat to convenience, though... My main motivation for wanting the timeskip disappeared, but I would have rather have had the timeskip and accept an implausible justification.


Right, but this went a little past implausible and more into 'we videogames now, take three years before proceeding with the main quest'. If everybody had been explicitly OK with that I would have had less of a problem, but as things were it seemed like nobody was aware of the consequences and I really didn't want to get 'gotcha''d into everybody dying. Remember that, at that point, we had suffered a bunch of gotchas that were still fresh on my mind.


I did not get the sense that there was a ticking clock, or rather, if there were, it would be oriented in such a fashion as to permit a timeskip. That is not to say that the plot has to wait on us forever, but a reasonable amount of leniency can be imposed with enough justification (resource shortages, minion incompetence, monsters, other such unforeseen circumstances that would prevent an otherwise perfect timeframe from happening). It could have been that a prolonged wait might have opened the doors to a unique quest or opportunity that otherwise would not have occurred.

Basically, it is not 'not thinking of the ramifications' as much as it is knowing how ana seems to run things. We routinely have shaved off weeks of travel time (something not many adventurers can claim), but the plot does not feel too much different. Perhaps it would have played out differently, but time feels almost a nonfactor unless the event is grand enough (and no, that is not an invitation to introduce mass timed events Ana >_>)

If a plot is so constrictive that it prevents any meaningful RP, then the plot is probably not very good. Yes, we are heroes and should save the world, but if we have to sacrifice player fun, then why play the game? We aren't here to speedrun the plot, but to experience the plot and the characters in it.


Right, and I agree with that. I'm just paranoid because the main plot got kickstarted by us getting jumped by a superwizard we couldn't see coming, couldn't stop, and who made us lose ten years in stasis. I was scared of something like that happening again.

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KanzarisKelshen
07/18/12 4:30:00 PM
#411:


From: Sceptilesolar | #409
From: Anagram | #406
Could you guys please each post your intended ED, and what book it is found in? I know Kan is planning Demigod and that's in PHB, but I don't know where the other EDs you guys are planning are, or even what ED each of you want.


'Draconic Incarnation' (though note that I object to the flavor; I like Avatar of Storm's a lot better but it's 100% impossible to qualify for). It is from Dragon #388.


Anyway Kanz if you exploit the 'well the old version of the capstone wasn't errataed' I will punch you.


This will only happen if we have to fight seven bosses together. Also, Demigod doesn't get it anyway.

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Sceptilesolar
07/18/12 4:30:00 PM
#412:


Or wait, what about Lorekeeper for Kirie? That's another nice one. Though I guess mostly for the capstone.

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IhatethisCPU
07/18/12 4:52:00 PM
#413:


Fatesinger. ...Okay, this one I have no problems with, besides slight concerns about Destiny Fulfilled being a bit too exploitable with this party... although it's probably a once per encounter thing...

...Also like Eternal Seeker, although that one gives me way too much build freedom for my tastes.

...And Kirie's Int is just short of Lorekeeper's pre-requirements, pre-level-up. Mostly because I leveled Str. twice the last two +1 to two stats level for wrestling and Fort purposes. ^_^'

...Will take Fatesinger, yeah. Thank ya kindly for pointing it out, Scep. And it's PHB2, Ana. Radiant One's in Dragon Annual '09.

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SovietOmega
07/18/12 5:00:00 PM
#414:


Leaning towards Indomitable Champion (Heroes of the Fallen Lands), though it is more vanilla than Demigod, but +20 hp raises HS value and makes a tank that much harder to kill.

Unyielding Sentinel (D388) is a possibility too. Double saving throw rolling, and a stance that can negate ongoing damage and give immunity to auras. Better from a 'more options' standpoint, but I don't plan to play Xeno long enough to see much of this.

Same deal with Ceaseless Guardian (D387)...has options, but not much I expect to see.

On an unrelated note, there are few items I can think of Xenophanes wanting or needing atm. On the plus side, Xenophanes is now rich >_>;;

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SovietOmega
07/18/12 5:11:00 PM
#415:


Also, could I get a DM ruling on the Reparation Apparatus?

Property: When you use a healing power on a construct, that
creature regains an additional 2d6 hit points. When you use
a power to grant temporary hit points to a construct, that
creature gains an additional 2d6 temporary hit points.

The issue is that Warforged have apparently been changed to be 'living constructs' which supposedly completely different from just a construct. Essentially, this would add 2d6 THP to my two powers with the invigorating keyword.

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Sceptilesolar
07/18/12 5:15:00 PM
#416:


I think the reason they removed Construct was precisely so players don't abuse that item <_</

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Anagram
07/18/12 5:16:00 PM
#417:


SovietOmega posted...
Also, could I get a DM ruling on the Reparation Apparatus?

Property: When you use a healing power on a construct, that
creature regains an additional 2d6 hit points. When you use
a power to grant temporary hit points to a construct, that
creature gains an additional 2d6 temporary hit points.

The issue is that Warforged have apparently been changed to be 'living constructs' which supposedly completely different from just a construct. Essentially, this would add 2d6 THP to my two powers with the invigorating keyword.


I'm not really sure. Ruling in favor of this opens up the door to potentially much more ridiculous uses of construct-only effects on warforged.

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Accel_R8
07/18/12 5:44:00 PM
#418:


That just begs the question what's the POINT of that item? Aren't all the living construct races "living construct"? I don't think I've ever seen a playable race that is just "construct".

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Sceptilesolar
07/18/12 5:44:00 PM
#419:


It's not for boosting yourself, it's for Artificers to use on their summons.

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Accel_R8
07/18/12 6:11:00 PM
#420:


Oh. How worthless.

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KanzarisKelshen
07/18/12 6:21:00 PM
#421:


From: Accel_R8 | #420
Oh. How worthless.


More or less. It was overnerfed really badly that way. The right way to go about it is to make it either restore the extra HP, OR provide the THP (one of the two, preset so you can't pick whichever's most useful), and then let it rock. That'd balance it out nicely.

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Sceptilesolar
07/18/12 6:22:00 PM
#422:


Isn't THP almost without fail preferable? Unless you're dealing with enemies who get stronger when you're bloodied, which there aren't a lot of.

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Accel_R8
07/18/12 7:05:00 PM
#423:


inexorable advance, too

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SovietOmega
07/18/12 7:17:00 PM
#424:


Honestly, I think I would be content with the THP, because as I said, this thing only affects two powers of mine, one of them being an at-will i should never use (Crushing Surge). The other one being decidedly mild healing (Warforged Resolve)

Accel_R8 posted...
inexorable advance, too


Somehow glossed over that one...had a feeling I was missing something.

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Accel_R8
07/18/12 8:25:00 PM
#425:


Oh as for epic destinies... I'm thinking Marshall of Letherna from Player Essentials: Heroes of Shadow

Screw the Raven Queen fluff though, Raven Queen is balls.


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Anagram
07/19/12 12:07:00 AM
#426:


I can't find Omega's or Accel's EDs. Could you guys maybe just post the fluff for me?

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Accel_R8
07/19/12 9:44:00 AM
#427:


Fluff is completely moot for mine since Raven Queen doesn't exist (and thank god).

I can go over my idea with you though, gimme just a bit, I just woke up.

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Accel R8
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Anagram
07/19/12 9:45:00 AM
#428:


I really don't know why you guys despise the Raven Queen so much, but I don't know much about the default setting.

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Accel_R8
07/19/12 9:51:00 AM
#429:


Because she's basically the mariest of mary sues, is what I've always gathered. She also apparently replaced a god from 3.5 that everybody really liked or something, but that I don't know much about.

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Accel R8
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Anagram
07/19/12 10:20:00 AM
#430:


What was the default 3.5 god of death? I know a lot more about Forgotten Realms than Greyhawk.

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Anagram
07/19/12 10:21:00 AM
#431:


Hey, Tiro, if we do another campaign directly after this one, are you still planning on your evil tiefling warlock chick?

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Sceptilesolar
07/19/12 10:30:00 AM
#432:


From: Anagram | #430
What was the default 3.5 god of death? I know a lot more about Forgotten Realms than Greyhawk.


Nerull, right? I dunno what was so special about him. I think the real objection is that the Raven Queen was a PC elevated to canon godhood.

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KanzarisKelshen
07/19/12 11:15:00 AM
#433:


From: Sceptilesolar | #432
From: Anagram | #430
What was the default 3.5 god of death? I know a lot more about Forgotten Realms than Greyhawk.


Nerull, right? I dunno what was so special about him. I think the real objection is that the Raven Queen was a PC elevated to canon godhood.


No, Wee Jas, goddess of magic and death. She wasn't super loved, but she was the one you needed to worship to be a Ruby Knight Vindicator, which was a pretty strong class.

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Triofrog
07/19/12 9:10:00 PM
#434:


Anagram posted...
Hey, Tiro, if we do another campaign directly after this one, are you still planning on your evil tiefling warlock chick?


Yeah, either her or Sol. Leaning towards her as a change of pace, though. Hope you guys are doing okay without me!

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Anagram
07/19/12 9:14:00 PM
#435:


Triofrog posted...
Anagram posted...
Hey, Tiro, if we do another campaign directly after this one, are you still planning on your evil tiefling warlock chick?


Yeah, either her or Sol. Leaning towards her as a change of pace, though. Hope you guys are doing okay without me!


Who's Sol again? I forget.

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Anagram
07/19/12 9:22:00 PM
#436:


Tiro, could you post a link to both of your characters, then? I lost the links.

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Sceptilesolar
07/19/12 9:24:00 PM
#437:


An Evil PC, huh?

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Anagram
07/19/12 9:37:00 PM
#438:


Sceptilesolar posted...
An Evil PC, huh?


It's hardly the first time someone's tried it. I play an evil PC in a party good characters once, though she was only barely evil. Tiro's warlock is more obviously evil.

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Anagram
07/19/12 9:40:00 PM
#439:


Ah, I found Cairn's sheet in the topic, nevermind.

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Sceptilesolar
07/19/12 9:40:00 PM
#440:


I'm not objecting to the notion, it's just interesting. The party dynamic will obviously be different anyway, so it might not even matter there.

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SovietOmega
07/19/12 11:26:00 PM
#441:


gotta chat with you about something next time we play accel. ._.

also, not that this will come into play for a long time, but I am thinking that if the next campaign is a thing, i will be some kind of sorcerer. already have some backstory ideas, though it will depend on how this story turns out >_>

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Sceptilesolar
07/19/12 11:36:00 PM
#442:


It won't be such a long time. Didn't Ana say he was expecting the campaign to end by the end of this summer?

In any case, I've made no secret that I intend to play Mari for a new campaign. The build I use will either be a Kalashtar Cleric (specializes in enabling with opportunity attacks) or a Half-Elf Bard (specializes in big at-will forced movement); both have some issues but do a good job capturing her essence. I doubt any other option will sway me, barring an exceptional Seeker article this month.

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Sceptilesolar
07/19/12 11:50:00 PM
#443:


Oh yeah, and to those of you in the habit of keeping it on their sheet, I now provide a +8 bonus to initiative, not +6. The total bonus is +10 if Kirie is also around.

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