Board 8 > Long Past Dinner! Umineko Discussion Continues! *spoilers 1-7*

(+) Yeah! (+)

New topic so as not to flood the one that still has a playthrough.

Playing Umineko so late has its good things and bad things. It's good because I'm the new guy and there are all these veterans who can help me along by telling me that it gets better or that I don't have to worry too much about a boring part of the story or hyping up what's to come. They're trusted, they've been down the road before, they give me enough information to keep me interested, but not enough so that they give everything away and spoil me.

But it's also bad because I'm alone in this. I go into it with lots of praise and warm expectation and I'm moving along like a rookie thinking I **** out bricks of gold and my theories are awesome. Some of them are. I think figuring out what happened to Maria's rose, and all the minds I blew with that (there were like ten to twenty posts of heads exploding at the revelation) ruined me for the rest of the game because I was always trying to come with big theories to see other players' reactions and figure out things they didn't. And when I got no reactions, I doubted myself. I still think a lot of my theories are sound, but with no feedback or validation/expulsion, it's like nothing I really tried to do mattered. Particularly with the end of Game Six.

I think why it's like that is because I'm the only playthrough I know. I came so late, everyone else was done long ago and because everyone already knew a lot of the answers and what was to come, they couldn't share their own experiences and revelations without spoiling my run. There are no virgin playthroughs going on right now, and the only archive I could find was Lisel on the B8Wiki that ends near the beginning of Episode 2. I have nobody to compare and contrast my own game to, so my golden truths stand out to me as wonderful things when really, there are a lot of other games, other fragments written by other people with their own interpretations of the games, that would probably make me look like a dunce in comparison.

Now I'm a veteran too. I may not have nearly as much experience looking, dissecting, and discussing the game as the rest of you, but I'm in the same place you are: waiting for episode 8. We're on mostly the same page (as far as a rookie like me can tell). And I want to know more about how you went through the game and what the experience was like for you.

What were all of your theories? Your missteps? What did you take away from episodes? From the characters? What blew your mind? What disappointed you? What were some of your more embarassing moments? Thrilling? What did you get right long before it came about? What do you still think you got right even if nobody else believes you? What did you get drastically wrong? What about you?

I hope this turns into a fun, chatty, Umineko remembrance and discussion topic. I eagerly await to hear stories from any or all who have gone through this wonderful game.



--
Tea Party for the Golden Witch

I pretty much made no theories and just went along for the ride

and listened to the amazing music

--
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Taaaaag~


I figured out the whole Kinzo is dead thing before it was revealed and felt pretty awesome about it. On the other hand, the whole Shkanon thing floored me and I almost lost the will to play it. I managed to press on by believing that Shannon and Kanon merely crossdressed and posed as the other, since Kanon was only seen being sucky at his job (wheelbarrow in episode 1) and Shannon was seen as both awful and awesome at her job at different points. Plus I figured the trap twins represented them since one was a guy but dressed as a girl.

Episode 7 ruined that for me though siiiiigh

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Cyclokle
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y306/greenseafoam/RCoween.png

I didn't have many theories in the beginning because when I was started I was terrible at mysteries. I actually heard about Shkanon before Episode 6 when it was a theory, but dismissed it. Everyone did. It was a joke theory we all thought was ridiculous.

My guess before that was that Kanon was the culprit, so...I guess half-credit?

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

Also, I read a lot of your theories. They were cool, I just didn't want to respond in case of spoilers. Which I guess is the issue you were talking about.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

It's pretty awesome you figured out he was dead. I don't remember when it was said in red that he was dead at the beginning of all games, but if it came before Goldsmith, I don't think I suspected a thing was wrong. Same for Shannon and Kanon. My mind was blown by the revelation in Episode 7, but I never once suspected they were the same person or swapping clothes or even questioning why so much mystery surrounded Kanon's corpse and attention was put on Kanon/Shannon/Jessica/George love rectangle/triangle. Complete stunner.

I still think the end of Episode Six was stupid, but it has nothing to do with Shannon is Kanon.

You find out Kinzo was dead in the end of Episode 4 Tea Party.

And yeah, that one completely floored me. Even if I had tried really hard to solve that one I never would have gotten it. One of my favorite moments in the series, there.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

KamikazePotato posted...
Also, I read a lot of your theories. They were cool, I just didn't want to respond in case of spoilers. Which I guess is the issue you were talking about.

Respond! Please! I thirst for you to stroke my ego or break my soul into millions of pieces!

From where we are, there are only two solutions I figured out that I can give myself a pat on the back for, and neither of them are the big mysteries of the game (probably because I spent too much time going back over and over replacing old, probably more correct theories, with new ones):

- Maria's rose
- Ange's face-off against Kasumi

Everything else is up in the air still. Nanjo or someone else locking up a window behind George when he left? Figuring out if Battler didn't see it, it doesn't necessarily happen? Pretty much any theory I had with regards to Kyrie/Rudolf that I immediately forgot about and tried pinning on Rosa or Eva? Good, but worthy.

my readthrough was filled with REALLY WHAT IS GOING ON THIS IS AWFUL STOP during episode 6 so yeeaaah

--
Ryoko
http://img.imgcake.com/ryopngem.png

But yeah, my travels through Umineko went something like this:

Episode 1: Magic exists?
Episode 2: Magic exists.
Episode 3: *understands the concept of a fantasy scene* Wait, magic DOESN'T exist
Episode 4: scrambling and failing to solve stuff

After that I tried solving things a little more, but I was never anywhere near as good at is as everyone else.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

This topic inspired me to listen to my Umineko playlist again on iTunes

--
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From: KamikazePotato | #010
But yeah, my travels through Umineko went something like this:

Episode 1: Magic exists?
Episode 2: Magic exists.
Episode 3: *understands the concept of a fantasy scene* Wait, magic DOESN'T exist
Episode 4: scrambling and failing to solve stuff

After that I tried solving things a little more, but I was never anywhere near as good at is as everyone else.

This is pretty similar to mine

First thing I did after finishing Ep 4 though was to sit down and think about it.

I arrived at Kyrie <_<

--
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3DS: 3609-1203-5974

I understood Ange's face-off against Kasumi and how she died pretty much right away. I *think* I understood that one before Haguile, which is probably the only thing in the series that I did.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

KamikazePotato posted...
You find out Kinzo was dead in the end of Episode 4 Tea Party.

And yeah, that one completely floored me. Even if I had tried really hard to solve that one I never would have gotten it. One of my favorite moments in the series, there.

That was awesome. Episode 4 was incredible. Well, aside from Ange. The rest of it? Mind-blowing. They all fell in the jail? Where are these tunnels? The breakout! The loser goats! Jessica's and George's fights! Beatrice's sadness! Battler's fight and silly silly solutions! Kinzo is dead at the beginning of all games! Kinzo. Is Dead. At the beginning. OF ALL GAMES. WTF WTF WTF. Oh my god, it's so good.



--
Also, SMALL BOMBS!

The second half of Episode 4 is probably the best stretch in the series that isn't the Episode 5 Tea Party, yeah.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

From: KamikazePotato | #010
But yeah, my travels through Umineko went something like this:

Episode 1: Magic exists?
Episode 2: Magic exists.
Episode 3: *understands the concept of a fantasy scene* Wait, magic DOESN'T exist
Episode 4: scrambling and failing to solve stuff

After that I tried solving things a little more, but I was never anywhere near as good at is as everyone else.

Yeah, pretty much this. It's nice since I basically went through the same ride Battler did. I remember loving the Ep1 Tea Party since I was all "what a lame way to cop-out of a cool mystery" and then Battler was all "wait, you guys aren't actually accepting this? Magic isn't real!"

I got through Episodes 1-3 in about a week since it was awesome. Then Ange slowed things down with Ep4 and things were never quite as good since then.

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

RyokIes posted...
my readthrough was filled with REALLY WHAT IS GOING ON THIS IS AWFUL STOP during episode 6 so yeeaaah

my readthrough during episode 6 was HA! THE CHEESE CAN BE CUT THROUGH WITH ONE SLICE! WAIT, WHAT'S KANON DOING HERE? BATTLER DOESN'T NEED KANON TO ESCAPE! WHAT? THAT'S HOW IT ENDS? OF COURSE I FIND IT DULL! KANON'S NOT THERE BECAUSE HE CAN ESCAPE YOU FOOLS!!! HE CAN ESAAAAAaaaaape...

Also, I still don't think I'm sure what the ragequit moment was for you. Mine was when Erika said she severed the heads of the other five people and that's why she didn't want to be a detective.

the ragequit moment for me was when Kanon revealed his "name"

--
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3DS: 3609-1203-5974

Episode 6 is just a weak episode I think. The Love Trial is just a glorified hint that's pretty dull, and the actual gameboard is just Erika being an ass and is nothing like an actual mystery. Only good thing is the very end with Beato returning but it doesn't make up for most of the rest of the episode imo.

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

From: Ness26 | #019
Episode 6 is just a weak episode I think. The Love Trial is just a glorified hint that's pretty dull, and the actual gameboard is just Erika being an ass and is nothing like an actual mystery. Only good thing is the very end with Beato returning but it doesn't make up for most of the rest of the episode imo.

pretty much yeah

Erika's god tier in Ep 6 but can't really make up for any of it alone

--
http://img.imgcake.com/RegaroUlquiorrapngse.png
3DS: 3609-1203-5974

Ness26 posted...
Then Ange slowed things down with Ep4 and things were never quite as good since then.

Haaaa. I went from daily or every other day updates to... well, I apologize to everyone for taking a week between every update that wasn't the last half of an episode. I don't apologize for delaying until Chiru for a month with the patching fails and the computer death, but for episode four and the past two months, I do.

Also, I'm calling it now. If Episode 8 talks about the Chiru games at all, Shannon/Kanon/Clair/Beatrice/Yasu will not be in that closet at the end of episode six.

Also:




--
MWAH HA HA HA HA HA!
*Kinzoface*

Erika's good in pretty much every moment she's in

probably the only consistently good character

--
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...Let it be known that this fight has no point. Continue discussion as if Angelo didn't derail the topic completely.

--
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http://safebooru.org//images/81/7fc00d71c1db5e34de543034381522d8e8e992a0.jpeg?80656

--
Ryoko
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7673/ryokohole.png

Ep 6 is probably the worst Episode even without taking the ramifications to the mystery behind it. It's got a couple amazing scenes, and the rest is just sloooow.

Beginning of Episode 4...man. I had actually enjoyed every single part of Umineko up until that point. Every intro, it was all great. But that was just awful.

On a more positive note, the series does climaxes veeeeery well. The end of every episode kicks ass.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

RyokIes posted...
http://safebooru.org//images/81/7fc00d71c1db5e34de543034381522d8e8e992a0.jpeg?80656

XD

KamikazePotato posted...
Ep 6 is probably the worst Episode even without taking the ramifications to the mystery behind it. It's got a couple amazing scenes, and the rest is just sloooow.

As long as I think of it as a solution for Episode 1 Second Twilight, a look at how a lot of closed rooms can be opened up and solved, and a giant hint for Shannon/Kanon, it's cool.

As a standalone closed room mystery, I'm dissatisfied with what was presented and hope Episode 8 pulls the rug out from under everyone who thinks what we got was at face value.

Imma throw this out there because I've been playing around it. Episode Six is obviously on my mind.

Looking back over pages three through five of my playthrough topic covering episode six and the beginning of seven, and knowing now about the ShKanon revelation...

I'm still dissatisfied with the ending of Episode Six.

And looking over my notes, my reaction, and the commentary that followed... I understand why it took so long to try and figure things out.

There was nothing to figure out.

I ended Game Six with a plausible theory with not only how Battler could get out by himself, but also how Kanon could have gotten him out without being in the room all while not breaking any red truth AND with nothing to do regarding the "Kanon turns into a different person when he's in the closet" mess. Explaining how Kanon got out of his room? No idea, but I was never counting on someone to save Battler's ass. Battler could have saved himself and that's why I was frustrated with new red truths and all your reactions about how I didn't get why it was so good.

I saw an alternate path for the trick to take, I saw an easier, more satisfying way for the bunny to be pulled out of the hat. Kanon saving Battler and changing personalities in the closet is cutting cheese into eight parts with three slices. It's cool if that's all you can see, but when you can figure out it can be cut with one slice before it becomes a problem (and still be cut with one slice under all the new truths added), it's just disappointing.

My mind didn't blow when Kanon wasn't in the closet. If Battler could leave the room on his own, so could Kanon. His absence was just an absence. When it turns out Kanon was Shannon and that the red truth just playing more name games, it was a bit disheartening. I get that the Chiru episodes are made to help us understand the mysteries of 1-4. I get that this particular closed room, as well as Hideyoshi's in episode 5, were meant to show how the episode one second twilight was solved as well as any playing dead scenarios. I understand that it was set-up to show that Shannon and Kanon were the same person. As a storytelling device for other episodes, it was cool.

But on its own in the mystery element, it sucked.

I understand I make some stupid theories sometimes. I can understand why my harping on Erika's use of seals (or lack thereof neener neener) in episode 5 was criticized. I get that my regular confusion towards Nanjo's death cuts a lot of my competence in your eyes. And I tend to joke around with stuff, sometimes pushing it to the limit and never giving it up.

But I think what frustrates me most is that no one refuted or even debated my theory. I looked at all the reactions to the end of the game and it's all reactions to my reaction.

"How did you think it was dull?"
"You didn't rage like myself and Hag raged!"
"Anything I should do, try and solve, or know by now before going in to Episode 7?

Just go on to EP7. You can try and solve the final closed room (the key to Beato's heart), but since the answer didn't occur to you before the closed room was even complete, it will probably just be exceedingly frustrating to you."
"I...uh....okay let me put it this way. How do you think that Kanon disappeared from that room?"

I realize that my time spent searching for an alternate solution, though clearly off the mark because lol Shannon is Kanon, was wasted. Instead of trying to figure out a new solution because everyone said I was wrong, I should've asked whether anyone understood why I was disappointed.

Please. Go back and read my Episode Six thoughts and tell me what I laid out wasn't a plausible way to cut the cheese in one slice instead of three slices. Whether it be praise for a valid solution or a giant hole broken through it so I can put it to rest, I would be most grateful. And I'd love to have more Umineko discussion with all of you.

The Theory & Red Truths in "Different Topic, Didn't Read" Form:

The chain lock must be set. You're allowed to unset it, but then it must be reset. Unless it is set, this exit of yours will be unusable.

It is impossible to set or unset the chain lock from the outside by any means.

No one was seen in the BATHROOM. Except for one location, Battler does not exist in any place inside the guest room.

Ushiromiya Battler does not exist within the guest room. ......There are no exceptions, including the closet.

Gohda severed the chain back when the crime was first discovered. Since the chain lock is not functioning, it is impossible to use it to create a seal.
Erika repaired the chain lock.
Erika used that duct tape to join the two cut ends of the chain together, 'sealing' them. In other words, the chain was repaired by the duct tape, and this room once again became a closed room locked from the inside.

The lock caused by the chain is intact.

Please, allow me to speak. Know that neither is broken. Know that an unbroken seal proves that there are still none who have entered or exited. It needs no second telling, but know that entering or exiting without breaking the seal is impossible.

This is a closed room created from the inside. The seals on the windows are intact, so there can be no escape from there. Of course, there is no way to escape by leaving through the bathroom. ......I'll make it simple. There is no exit or escape from except for this door. However, the chain lock on this door is set. You can unset and reset it all you want, but you can only do so from the inside. Furthermore, you are free to go out through the door, but you cannot leave of escape while the chain lock is unset.

...Kanon's escape and all the hype for Kanon saving Battler and Erika killing Kyrie follow...

Kanon does not exist in the guest room. .........Of course, this includes all parts of the closet, the bedroom, and the bathroom.


- Hmm... ummm... hmmm... would undoing the duct tape seal, leaving, then resealing it violate a red truth? It was impossible to undo the chain lock before the duct tape, but what if it wasn't after?
- The only other explanation besides taping the chain is someone else going in and resetting the chain then hiding under the bed or something. So.. .two possible ways.
- And from this I go to the duct tape chain. The chain is still set, but red doesn't clarify whether it was unbroken (and resealed). Yes, it's possible for Erika to notice a reseal, but Erika hasn't had the opportunity to. The red truth: It is impossible to set or unset the chain lock from the outside by any means. The ability to unseal and reseal the lock is still an option as both ends are still in the 'set' position.

Also, reading over that last bit again:

know that entering or exiting without breaking the seal is impossible.

This isn't just about prevention. This isn't just a wall that prevents Battler from escaping. It's a vital clue to how he escapes. He cannot enter or exit the room without breaking a seal. Flipping the chessboard over, he has to break a seal to enter or exit the room. Whether or not there were people available to break him out, he would be unable to leave the room without breaking a seal. Breaking a seal is a required part of the exit. To exit, he must break a seal and the only seal that can logically be broken and unbroken is the chain lock. For the chain lock is sealed and the easiest seal to break. It is only a move that is so diabolically devious that only Moooojo Jojo could indeed come up with such a move, for such a move is crafty and clever and daring and powerful just as Mojo Jojo is crafty and clever and daring and powerful! Mojo Jojo will escape from such an inferior trap to set out to conquer the Powerpuff Girls! Hahahahahahahaha!

Yeah I kinda of agree with you on Episode 6. It had the weakest climax out of any episode, and the closet mystery being a mess doesn't help. There were better ways that could have been done.

Also, I think when people talked about you not loving the end of Episode 6 I think they mostly refer to the circumstances surrounding that last puzzle instead of the puzzle itself. I didn't think those circumstances were that exciting either, so hey.

--
Black Turtle did a pretty good job.

KamikazePotato posted...
Yeah I kinda of agree with you on Episode 6. It had the weakest climax out of any episode, and the closet mystery being a mess doesn't help. There were better ways that could have been done.

Also, I think when people talked about you not loving the end of Episode 6 I think they mostly refer to the circumstances surrounding that last puzzle instead of the puzzle itself. I didn't think those circumstances were that exciting either, so hey.

But everyone seemed thrilled by it. "How could you not think it was dull?" They were incredulous by my reaction, and when I look back over the period between ending six and starting seven, I don't see any acknowledgment of why I reacted so unexcitedly. I even pointed out a good bit before it happened that the twist was that Kanon wasn't in the closet. It wasn't mind blowing and it was expected. It also wasn't a giant magical "how'd they do that?" because I outlined how it was done in the posts beforehand.

Kanon is Shannon is hiding in the closet is the hand the magician wants you to look at. All the while, we never really see what condition the seal was in after Erika turns back from the bed. That's where the ball or coin really is. And if it really is Natsuhi/Hideyoshi's room from Episode 1 (yay Portal window!),



Assuming the closet's right by the door, ample time and room to get in and out. Even this is possible for Kanon.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting your last statement. It just seemed they were very surprised at my apathy when I showed why I was apathetic. It wasn't necessarily comparing to their old experiences because there was a lot of, "If you can't figure it out, just wait until episode 7. But you should try before then."

How wasn't it dull? All this build-up for a "How does Battler escape?!" and... it's solved by a weird use of the red truth in sealing a room, someone showing up to save Battler, and then the game ending while Erika's back is turned checking under the bed. When she checked the closet and saw no one was there, the game ends. Yeah, I'm curious how Kanon escaped (and subsequently died on the second twilight), but... yay Battler and Beatrice are together, yay Erika's dead, but... it feels like a cop-out more than anything. Like, if they went any further, they'd have to reveal the trick and it'd be over. Erika sealed herself in just as much as Battler had and... it wasn't a satisfying victory. Just... "Look! Impressive isn't it? Where's Kanon? Hmm? You're dead now, Erika. Buh-bye."

Too lazy to read the topic to find this but I think Jessica = Gaap and George = Ronove

--
~Acting on Impulse~
Black Turtle still didn't MAJORA'S MASK

I just pretended that vn stopped being a mystery after 1 anyway

Most of the series was a fantasy novel any way

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SemiFinal vs Belarus posted...
ugh. the fact that you figured out a plausible reason for maria's rose disappearing but didn't pick up on the hints ep6 was dropping as if they were an uncomfortably high temperature irks me.

This one irks me. This one gets me all riled up into bringing up the end of episode 6 again.

Yes, I figured out a plausible reason for Maria's rose disappearing. And yes, I didn't pick up on any of the hints Episode 6 was dropping towards Kanon and Shannon because at the time I was busy trying to figure out how Battler could leave his room. I had no idea Kanon would break out and open the door to let him out so I didn't pay much attention to the continued romance games. Battler's imprisonment inside the guest room was a part of the game since before the intro sequence came about. It continued to be touched upon throughout while the first day still went on. All the red truths throughout the day, aside from Erika's fight with Maria, were with regards to figuring out the chain puzzle. Even the fight that had no point illustrated a point.

- One of the foundations of magic is decorating the process.
S: "However, it might really have been magic when Maria saw it...! Just because it can be done by a sleight of hand doesn't disprove magic."

Just because it can be done by freeing Battler and switching places with him doesn't disprove magic.

Mega Mana posted... 7/6/2011, 5:45:03PM, 12 days before the end of Episode Six
And my arguments towards the duct tape aren't truly about whether or not they happened, just that the truth isn't always what we're presented, everything not in red or observed by Battler in the first four games has potential to be deceitful or a fabrication of events, and that there should logically be a point where Erika's tales become a loose thread that we tap into and breakdown.

But then, things don't always work out how they logically and awesomely should.

Justin_Crossing posted...
Too lazy to read the topic to find this but I think Jessica = Gaap and George = Ronove

o_O

Well...

Kinda makes since for the Episode 4 fight. And Jessica befriending Yasu in Episode 7 as Gaap... is plausible...

From: Justin_Crossing | #032
Too lazy to read the topic to find this but I think Jessica = Gaap and George = Ronove

'why'

--
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3DS: 3609-1203-5974

Also, now I feel bad.

All this pulling apart episode six just prove myself and others wrong for doubting me... I've become an intellectual ******. Theories should be fun and inquisitive, but this one's just bitter and without heart. I'm as bad as Furudo Erika or Episode 2 Beatrice. I'm just ripping the guts out and leaving them on the floor.

But everyone seemed thrilled by it. "How could you not think it was dull?" They were incredulous by my reaction, and when I look back over the period between ending six and starting seven, I don't see any acknowledgment of why I reacted so unexcitedly. I even pointed out a good bit before it happened that the twist was that Kanon wasn't in the closet. It wasn't mind blowing and it was expected. It also wasn't a giant magical "how'd they do that?" because I outlined how it was done in the posts beforehand.

Kanon is Shannon is hiding in the closet is the hand the magician wants you to look at. All the while, we never really see what condition the seal was in after Erika turns back from the bed. That's where the ball or coin really is. And if it really is Natsuhi/Hideyoshi's room from Episode 1 (yay Portal window!),



Assuming the closet's right by the door, ample time and room to get in and out. Even this is possible for Kanon.


Sounds like the real problem is that you missed or ignored the key part of the puzzle.

I proclaim that the chain lock has been repaired by the duct tape seal and has regained its original functionality. And, thanks to that, I locked the room upon entering it and made this guest room a closed room from the inside once more.

Kanon can't escape from the room because the lock was still set.

--
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick

Exactly.

The lock was still set. No one can escape the room without the lock still set. That's whole reason why I think it's a brilliant use of a closed room and use of red truths. ...Just not with the solution presented to us. The lock was still set.

And yet they still could have left the room.

No, they couldn't have. You're jumping on a solution that doesn't work.

--
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick

From: Regaro_Ukiera | #036
'why'

Because they exist in the past timeline and are sort of playing with Beatrice and it would make sense that the kids on the island would play with her. Jessica being Gaap and Ronove being George makes sense for the fight in Ep4 if you discount locations. There's other stuff too but I haven't read through recently enough to remember some of it.

--
~Acting on Impulse~
Black Turtle still didn't MAJORA'S MASK

Sceptilesolarbeam posted...
No, they couldn't have. You're jumping on a solution that doesn't work.

What doesn't make it work pray tell? Think about how a chain lock works.

Mega Mana posted...
Sceptilesolarbeam posted...
No, they couldn't have. You're jumping on a solution that doesn't work.

What doesn't make it work pray tell? Think about how a chain lock works.

Can you stop being cryptic and say what you're even talking about first?

--
"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick

Here's my reactions to the series:

Episode 1: "KP said something about a mystery series on aim, but was elusive about the term mystery. I was interested and began to read it. After a while I figured it would go fantasy bulls*** on me, but decided "SCREW WHAT THE AUTHOR INTENDED I'M GOING TO READ IT AS A MYSTERY TO THE END BECAUSE THAT'S JUST WHAT I DO" around the second twilight. Then came the tea party and I was like "oh I was supposed to think like that? Uh lucky!""

Episode 2: "Man Battler you...aren't very bright are you."

Episode 3:"Yes Battler. Magic doesn't exist. So? Also Kinzo is dead CALLING IT."

Episode 4:"Yup Kinzo is dead also F*** ANGE. DEAR GOD SHE IS BORING. And XFD small bombs. One day I shall top that with small boats."

Episode 5:"Hey Erika you are ALMOST a good detective but you are a fun character. Hey this speech about the mystery genre is half-good, but that's like giving someone a half kitten. It isn't nearly as cute as a whole kitten, and is in fact a bloody mess. But hey Dlanor is cool."

Episode 6:"Okay so the plot has gone to hell. Figured."

Episode 7:"Why isn't the series a buddy cop comedy with Dlanor being the by-the-books cop wanting to arrest Beatrice and Will being the loose cannon with nothing to lose?"

--
GREEN RANGER
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4548/signaturedi.jpg

Sceptilesolarbeam posted...
Mega Mana posted...
Sceptilesolarbeam posted...
No, they couldn't have. You're jumping on a solution that doesn't work.

What doesn't make it work pray tell? Think about how a chain lock works.

Can you stop being cryptic and say what you're even talking about first?

A chain lock is an unbroken chain of interconnecting links. It works so that when you lock it, you have to pull it across the door until it's taut to get it into a sliding slot. When you slide it back, it hangs loose. It can only be normally unlocked when the door is closed by pulling it taut and releasing it from it's slotted compartment.

It is stated in red that it is impossible to unset or reset the chain from outside the room. It is impossible to pull the chain all the way through its slot until it can escape from the outside even with a wire hanger. But when it's set, it can still be finagled with because there is a gap in the door. It just can't be set or unset in this way.

So what can Battler or Kanon do to a regular chain lock besides set and reset it from outside the room?

Nothing. They're screwed.

But this chain lock?

Gohda severed the chain back when the crime was first discovered. Since the chain lock is not functioning, it is impossible to use it to create a seal.
Erika repaired the chain lock.
Erika used that duct tape to join the two cut ends of the chain together, 'sealing' them. In other words, the chain was repaired by the duct tape, and this room once again became a closed room locked from the inside.

Unsealing and resealing the duct tape on the chain lock can be done from outside the room without unsetting the lock on the door.

If it's 'regained its original functionality', I would think such a method would be illegal. That's clearly an impediment on its original functionality.

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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick

Not at all. It's original function is to lock the door. It still prevents the door from opening when you try to enter or exit with it set.

How about The lock caused by the chain is intact. ?

Your method might not break the chain, but it does cause the door to become unlocked.

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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick

How so? If Battler unseals the tape, exits, then reseals it from outside, the chain is still set, still taped, and still prevents entry or exit. You can unlock a door, exit, and lock it behind you for a lock to still be intact. When Erika leaves looking under the bed and ready to grab Battler from the closet, the lock is still sealed. Just as it was when she closed the door when she first entered. She sealed it and locked it.

Battler unlocked it, left, and locked it again. Erika can't tell if it changed.

Well, she could if she checked the seal after checking the bed or if she had the Detective's Authority, but she never did. It became all about Kanon and how he wasn't in the closet. All smoke and mirrors.

Battler unlocked it, left, and locked it again. Erika can't tell if it changed.

DIE THE DEATH SENTENCE TO DEATH GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH

[Request: 'The definition of closed room implies that it is impossible to construct from the OUTSIDE'.] Acknowledged.

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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick