Board 8 > Mana & Maniac Rank Their Top 100 TV Shows (Double-oops Edition + Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

So what did you think of my longer write-up? I plan on doing similar for the rest of the top 10.

Which obviously means they will take me a little longer.

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(Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

I enjoyed it =D

On the plus side, some of these upcoming shows I already have at least partially written up from when I did a TV show tourney thing a couple years ago.

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(Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

#9 Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993-1999)
Sci-fi
Mega Mana's Ranking:
Opening: (such a boring opening)

This is by far my favorite Star Trek. Great seasons, good writing, good casts, good relationships, and a nice mix of action comedy and drama. Watching the early seasons of DS9 I just feel like I am really getting something out of it. DS9 does a tremendous job of dealing with real issues, both present and future. I love that watching it now (16 years after it first debuted) it still can teach us something. It's what made the Star Trek series great and its what sets DS9 apart from most shows. The issues with the planet Bajor which are central to the early seasons of the show have surprising parallels to our current situation in Iraq. This show also goes through everything from Religion in schools to Nazis. I not only get an enjoyable experience from watching DS9, it actually makes me think about a lot of real and important issues.

I think that is one of the main reasons why I don't love the Dominion War seasons more than the early ones. I love all the ethical and moral issues that the early seasons have. But then again, it has been so long since I've seen the later seasons that I might feel completely different this time around. Heck, if I like the later half of the series as much as I love the early seasons this show could jump all the way into the top tier. It is really that good.

Just look at all the truly great relationships and characters in this show. You have a great family dynamic in the Sisco's, and Commander/Captain Sisco is a good character character and something unusual for the Star Trek leaders. I especially love the differnece in how he deals with Q vs the other captains. Sisco/Dax is one of the most unusual relationships in TV, but it is so good. Jadzia is one of my favorites, and not just because the actress is gorgeous and from my hometown. Honestly, between O'brien/Keiko, O'Brian/Bashir, Bashir/Dax, Odo/Kira, Jake/Nog, Bashir/Garak, this show is just filled to the brim with great relationships. I have to mention one of my all-time favorites in Odo/Quark. They have this great antagonistic rivalry that is always fun to watch. They are great as they continuously challenge each other, they may even become friends though they will never admit it.

Add in a great minor character in the mysterious tailor Garak, a great villain in Gul Dukat, and some extremely good storylines and you have a show for the ages. It doesn't interest a lot of Trek fans due to the switch from traveling ship to stationary space station, but in my mind that allowed for so many great things the other shows could never do.

I just watched a few episodes of Season 3 and it is just so good. Even when the plot isn't great the characters and their stories can really carry it and make it good. That is the kind of thing that makes a show truly great in my mind.

I just know this show is going to go up from #9. But for now this is where it is.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

Man, the Top 10 is so tough, I keep wanting to reorder #6-9.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

#4. Lost (2004-2010)
ABC, Drama
Choice Song: http://www.youtube.com/user/ricco19#p/u/56/kkYpeN-9I-0
- Linked to user page because regular video has massive spoilers in the suggestions and I couldn't think of a more perfect video.

- Ah, now probably the most controversial write-up on my list... for myself. Ever since Season 6 ended, any praise I try and give to this show eventually and quickly becomes a multi-paragraph tirade towards its failings, missed opportunities, arrogance, and a seemingly neverending list of what they did wrong and why. Even now, it's bubbling up at the mere thought of, "It was all about the characters." However, if it's a long list of why I hate a show, how could it be number four on my top teleivisiion shows?

What Lost Did Right:
- They developed an ensemble of compelling, charismatic characters all with their own storylines, histories, personalities, countries, and different outlooks on the future and survival on the island. Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Ben, Sayid, Jin, Sun, Michael, Charlie, Hurley, Kate, Eko, Faraday, Desmond, Juliet, Claire, Walt. They all, at one time or another, had really strong and different characters from what was usually seen on television. Some, like Kate, Sun, and Sayid, fell into mediocrity for a good chunk of thier time, but they started off really really strong and were among the best characters in the earliest episodes. Boone, Shannon, Libby, Miles, Richard, Tom, Rose, Bernard, Lapidus, Mikhail, Rousseau, and plenty of others are also worthy of note for having some solid characters, but just as much strength as plenty of others.

- Lost's twists are some of the best I've seen and many still hold up after repeated viewings. Did they try to mine the twists too hard and too long sometimes? Definitely. One of the biggest controversies is the Season Six twist. But the best ones? The ones that stay forever in your mind? They're priceless. I'm not going to spoil what or when they are, but I've come up with at least fifteen in the last ten seconds. If you want 'em, I'll post them or send them in a PM so you can be like, "Holy crap! I remember that! That was so crazy!"

- Lost's story was refreshing and great. A bunch of strangers survive a plane crash on an island and they have to learn to live together or die alone, all while slowly uncovering the secrets that lie out in the jungle and dealing with their pasts and identities. Who are these people? Why are they the way they are? How do those events shape what they do on the island? This was Lost in its essence. It was lost along the way for shock twists, fantastic mysteries, railroading the plot forward, and ever-so-slowly uncovering the island's history, but when it really got into the characters, it was brilliant. The monster, the hatch, the Others: they're all the sideshow. Jack's pathos, Sawyer's vengeance, and Locke's needs are the three ring circus.

- The Lost community is probably the biggest factor. Lost on its own is a great show, but coupled with a vibrant, conversational, widespread, and often hilarious community, it's so mcuh better. The past year's been so quiet without constant chatter over Lost and 24. I don't think there will ever be another show so connected over by as large a fanbase from the beginning it airs to the time it ends. The ARGs were a lot of fun (THE FUNFUPHKOOFEN FOUNDATION! Parsley Donuts! Rachel Blake *swoon*! DJ DAN, SHUTTING DOWN THE MAN!), and the Television: Boradcast TV board was probably my favorite place to go for comedy. Wrestling With Angels, Did anybody notice the ocean?, Triple Triad's asian jokes, Lapidus, those Lost comics (credit to AlecTrevelyan006 for the funniest one ever! j/k guyz). God, I could just spend my whole day re-reading old fads and running gags and be in heaven. If I could find an archive, this entire write-up would just be a link to those comics. Nothing else required.

Lost did plenty of other things right, but those are the top four and they stand strong. Lost's very imperfect, but it's still easily one of the best shows created. A lot of imitators lost out on what made Lost great initially: the character. Invasion, The Event, FlashForward, and so many others focused on the setting and things like the monster and the hatch instead of why the characters are who they are. It's why Heroes started off so strongly: the people were people doing people things except they also happened to have powers and a destiny. Without love, it shouldn't be seen. Lost is just an incredible experience, and in spite of its devastating mishaps, should be something for everyone to see.

P.S.

Choice Song has been the toughest one in a long time, but that's only because I haven't done write-ups in a long time. Supernatural, Craig Ferguson, ER, Chuck, DBZ, and lots of others before that were tough, but Lost might have an edge because I can't think of any music I wouldn't want to put in the spot. Lost's music and sound is another very strong point in its favor. Between Michael Giacchino's orchestral soundtracks to the use of regular music during montages or flahsbacks, and the waves crashing on the beach to Monster chatter, the sound is captivating. The visuals of Hawaii are too. It's a glorious doorway into sight and sound. I ultimately picked the episode three montage because it shows off the characters, the music, and how the mood is greatly affected by sound and picture.

Ah LOST, the biggest show I could never get into.

I watched it every week for a season and a half before I finally gave up. I also watched the finale, which was good from my perspective, though it was still hard to believe how far from the beginning the show went.

I just could never get into the characters. The only ones I didn't dislike were Sawyer (as long as he wasn't near Kate), Charlie (half the time), and Hurley. That's it.

The mysteries were intriguing but after a season and a half of learning nothing and quickly realizing that we were on a path to go farther away from the mysteries I wanted explained, I just became frustrated with it. Even after I gave up though I still kept up with the mysteries. Mostly because I had friends and family that would come to me for theories and possible explanations (I'm good at that stuff). It was always fun coming up with theories on the island giving super powers (Locke's healing, Walt's seeming ability to make things he pictures real), the smoke monster being a machine, an alien study on humanity (the three toed statue and Dharma), or Egyptian Gods being real and still having power here (the statue of the God of Restoration and Rebirth). Frell, I spent like an hour researching Egyptian Gods with my sister until we found which one that statue was. This also lead to hilarious "never going to happen but wouldn't it be great if" theory where LOST ended up being another Stargate spinoff and this whole place was created by the Gould. And now knowing that all of those theories were completely pointless because they either were never explained or were completely changed over the length of the show, I'm glad I didn't bother. It was frustrating enough asking what things were seasons later and having my friends continually tell me "they haven't explained that yet" or even "yeah, they forgot about that". With each season that they brought me new stuff to figure out I realized how crazy it had become. With an outside perspective I listened as this show switch from mythical island mystery, to science expirament, to ghost story, to Supernatural, and it was just mind boggling. I could not understand how people loved this show so much. And I loved how often I was informed that a new group of people were found on the island. It is amazing that they Losties didn't run into any of them for an entire season.

Add in time travel, purgatory, a good vs evil battle fueled by deus ex machina, and Kate apparently becoming even more of a Mary Sue, and I will almsot certainly never bother to watch the rest of this show.

Oh and I'm also pissed at it for not even bothering to pretend they did any research before setting something in Iowa. Long horn Steer? Palm Trees? Are you serious bro?

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(Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

Few DS9-related responses from a guy who puts that show at #1.

1.) It's Sisko!
2.) There is plenty of ethical content in the later seasons. I think you might realize this upon rewatching the series. Those are some of my favorite aspects of every year.
3.) The character dynamics make the show. Before the good plotlines, before the cool (to this day in its later seasons) action sequences, it's the characters, characters, characters. No other science fiction series I've seen had so many great dynamics apart from Farscape and SG-1. Those two compete but it's close man, it's close.

As for LOST, I'm actually with you on that one too Maniac. Sacrilegious as it seems for a huge sci-fi/fantasy buff to say I gave it roughly the same chance and the characters just weren't doing it for me.

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"Setsuna, you have to change. To make up for me... who didn't change." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

I can't believe I misspelled Sisko. I am ashamed.

I'm actually really looking forward to my rewatch getting to the later seasons, I picked up so much stuff rewatching the first couple seasons a couple years ago.

And yeah, it really is all about the characters. There are just so many great characters in DS9 and so many great dynamics. The only things I can think of that beats it is Farscape. It even competes and probably beats Buffy and Firefly, mostly becuase it just has so many great characters. Though a certain anime also competes, but that one will be coming up later (no Poka, not that anime).

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(Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

Looking forward to the rest of your list man. Lots of similar interests between us.

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"Setsuna, you have to change. To make up for me... who didn't change." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

#8 Leverage (2008-____)
Drama, Crime (but more in the Ocean's 11 way than the Law and Order way)
Mega Mana's Ranking: 60
Opening:

Hitter, Hacker, Grifter, Thief, Mastermind. The makings of a grade A crime team. Only this one has a Robin Hood complex.

Former good guy finds himself working on the other side of the law and realizes he can do more good that way. He works with a team of crazy criminals who are being the good guys for the first time (except maybe Eliot).

This show has great scripts that have a real Ocean's Eleven vibe to them. The action is good, the comedy is funny, the characters are interesting, what's not to love?

While Nate and Sofie probably qualify as the true main characters of this show the real heart and soul comes from the other three members of the team. They're interactions and development together is what I truly love watching. They started off as three loner characters who struggled to work with each other. Hardison and Eliot basically hated each other, and both were just freaked out by Parker and her insanity. Parker meanwhile didn't care about anyone. Now they have slowly developed into a great group of friends (possibly Parker's first friends). Eliot and Hardison are best friends, and Hardison and Parker's potential romance has been developing beautifully. They are all great together and steal every episode.

Oh and did I mention that the great Mark Shepphard has a recurring character? It's my favorite of his characters (yes even over his Firefly and Supernatural roles) and it is an awesome antagonist. He is coming back next week and I am crazy excited. Will Wheaton also has a great recurring character set to come back this season.

The show is already in its fourth amazing season, and while I always worry that it will go downhill so far it has not struggled, even when losing a main character for half a season. As long as this show keeps its focus on this amazing cast of characters it will be just fine.

This is also one of three ongoing series in my top 10. I love it and just can't do it justice in this write-up.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

I can understand how anyone would quit, especially a season and a half in. Especially. Back before or during Season 3, I'd routinely marathon as best I could. I'd always get through Season 1, no problem, though I eventually started to skip certain episodes like "The Greater Good," "Born to Run," and a few others (oddly enough, always watched "Whatever the Case May Be"). Season 2... I would always, always give up by the midpoint. If I've watched most episodes of Season 1 at least five or six times, there are probably still episodes of Season 2 I've only seen once or twice. It's slow, it's stagnant, the flashbacks outside of Charlie's really start to falter, the characters regress and become unlikeable, and there's just so much that you could ***** about. There were still gems like "Orientation" and "The 23rd Psalm" but it wasn't the calibre of Season 1.

However, if you had stuck around, you'd meet Henry Gale. Henry Gale gave the show new life. There are three or four sections of Season 2:

1) The party is split: "Man of Science, Man of Faith" to "Collision" 2.01-2.08 - Time is torn between the beach people, the time in the Hatch, the raft group's journey back, and some of the worst flashbacks on the show.

2) Stagnation: "What Kate Did" to "The Long Con" 2.09-2.13 - Though two or three of S2's best episodes are in here (and one in everyone's bottom three), it still feels like the show's going nowhere... even though there are lots of answers, revelations, and game changers. It's still very quittable

3) Henry Gale: "One of Them" to "S.O.S." 2.14-2.19 - We meet a new character named Henry Gale. He's from Minnesota. The mystery surrounding him and the intrigue his actor brings give huge new life back into the show. Season 2 would be nothing without him, and you probably quit before meeting him.

4) Ticking Down: "Two For the Road" to "Live Together, Die Alone" 2.20-2.23 - The endgame. Everything ramps up. New discoveries, old faces, big twists, big events, probably one of the best flashbacks and maybe best episodes in the series. IIRC, I think it was even the highest rated episode of Lost by the BTV board last year. It's spectacular how Season 2 goes out and made the hype for Season 3 even greater.


I do not fault you or anyone else for quitting Season 2 when you did, especially if it was after the second-worst episode of the series, but you seriously missed out on becoming a fan for life within the next few episodes.

It's like a friend of mine tried out Firefly but quit because she just wasn't enjoying it. It had some good characters, but the episodes were boring. When did she quit?

Shindig.

You can't really fault her too much for that, right? Shindig's a really mediocre episode and she's only had the Train Job and Bushwhacked before it, both of which are completely forgettable episodes.

But she was also an episode or two away from the string of amazing episodes "Safe" to "Ariel." No "Our Mrs. Reynolds," no "Jaynestown," no "Out of Gas." She was completely normal for ditching a show that wasn't doing it for her because it was average where she was. Yet I've been a proponent for months for her to get back into it because the next episode or two would probably reverse her thinking completely and make her a huge fan.

That's the rest of Season 2. It has it's hiccups, definitely (the only damn tree frog on the whole damn island, tub of ranch dressing), but it's awesome.

And Season 3, which has easily the best run of episodes on the show and of nearly any series I can think of, is not the best season at all because half of it sucks. The first six episodes suck. Every other episode until the final rundown are bad or just mediocre. But the last six episodes? ****ing amazing. The episodes that aren't every other episode? ****ing amazing. Season 3 is a joy. I can barely imagine a time before Season 3 and all that it brought to the table. For Seasons 4, 5, and 6? I can. Season 3? It's impossible to forget about.

And that's not saying 4, 5, and 6 were bad. I can hardly believe some of the characters introduced in Season 4 weren't around forever already. It's a really good season, some people's favorites. Season 5 was huge in scope, but faltered early and faltered late, but its core was so strong and it's unbelievable how quickly we, the audience, took to some big moves. Really quickly. And six? It has a lot of flaws. That's really all I have to say about that.

So, yeah, my original point, that quitting in the middle of Season 2 as a valid move, still stands. No, most of the characters were falling out of awesomeness by that point. Jack was a crying whining mess. Kate was a complete disaster. Locke was losing his mojo. Charlie was all about drugs and Claire was all about the baybeh. Sayid was a shell. Michael was annoying. Hurley was getting depressing. Everyone's baggage was just growing bigger and bigger. They were not a joyful group of people to be with. Season 1? There were some hang-ups, but everyone had a role and some heart. Middle of Season 2? I can't blame you if Sawyer was the only character you liked (especially if you got to The Long Con, =D).

But you jumped off a bit too early.

But hey, maybe you're in the right. Season Six sucked and a lot of people were heartbroken that things didn't go the way we wanted or how we hoped. Not even about how the mysteries would be solved or how theories would be dealt with, just... wrapped up cohesively. Given proper story resolution. Alas.

I don't know. It was a fun show and a lot of the top ten episodes come from later seasons. It's a show that often would suck for a period of time before it jumped into the biggest boom. The worse it got in the moment, the better the next thing to come would be.

And thinking like that, maybe Season Six will be a blessing. It sucks so much that it influences a cultural renaissance of epic proportions across all mediums changing our very lives for the better.

Oh god, I was reading that as a continuation of the "Leverage" post for a moment and I was beyond confused.

Honestly though, few characters were calling to me during the first season. Some in particular (Shannon always comes to mind) were really cranking down the entertainment level for me and folks like Sawyer, Locke and Hurley could only do so much to alleviate the nausea I felt coming on every time she was on-screen.

Whenever I discuss my dismissal of LOST with fans of the series there's this expectation that I ditched the show midway through the second year because I noticed a drop in quality from the first. I know it's a rare thought and I really wish I felt differently so I could have joined in the fun but I didn't overly enjoy myself in that freshman year either.

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"Setsuna, you have to change. To make up for me... who didn't change." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

Now for actually talking about your write-up =P

Leverage is amazing. It's only so low on my list because I had maybe only seen about eight episodes, probably less, by the write-up. In addition, it had been months since I started binging on it the previous summer and the only new episode I remembered was the one with Luka Kovac from ER and Christian Kane in that warehouse combat scene. My most recent memory of it was that the initial charm was lost and that it was kind of hokey.

Now with new episodes again, how wrong was I? The show is still immensely entertaining and probably the only new show I actively seek out in the summer (I've got Alphas DVR'ed but I completely forget it exists for days.... and I'm not counting Gokaiger because it's not on American television... even though I definitely look forward to the weekends just for new episodes). Leverage is awesome. It has great guest stars, the team is a joy to watch, the episodes are crafted beautifully, and the twist endings about how they really caught the bad guys never get old.

And you really got it right pointing out the strength of Eliot, Hardison, and Parker. They're a huge part of why the show is so entertaining and successful.

Jeff Zero posted...
Oh god, I was reading that as a continuation of the "Leverage" post for a moment and I was beyond confused.

Honestly though, few characters were calling to me during the first season. Some in particular (Shannon always comes to mind) were really cranking down the entertainment level for me and folks like Sawyer, Locke and Hurley could only do so much to alleviate the nausea I felt coming on every time she was on-screen.

Whenever I discuss my dismissal of LOST with fans of the series there's this expectation that I ditched the show midway through the second year because I noticed a drop in quality from the first. I know it's a rare thought and I really wish I felt differently so I could have joined in the fun but I didn't overly enjoy myself in that freshman year either.

Fair enough. The expectation's there because it's completely believable and probably a route many a fan thought about taking at the time. The huge drop in quality was undeniable and glaring. I don't even entertain going back and watching a lot of Season 2, even though I've seen select episodes of the show at least ten-fifteen times. If you didn't like Season 1, you didn't.

Hell, I'm one of the few who liked Shannon. Was she annoying? Yes, but I thought with how Season 1 ended and well the show had handled character development so far, that Shannon's character was going to become something spectacular.

There's a certain character coming up on both Maniac's and my lists that I will freely point out how I thought Shannon's character could have gone, how I thought the writers would have developed her. I was wrong and disappoints me a bit, but at the time, I thought Shannon was going to be incredible (or at least attempted to be).

Hmm, looking forward to it.

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"Setsuna, you have to change. To make up for me... who didn't change." ~SCP~
http://img.imgcake.com/Jeffzeropngus.png

2) Stagnation: "What Kate Did" to "The Long Con" 2.09-2.13 - Though two or three of S2's best episodes are in here (and one in everyone's bottom three), it still feels like the show's going nowhere... even though there are lots of answers, revelations, and game changers. It's still very quittable

I gave up either at What Kate Did or very shortly after. I know that was one of the last episodes I saw.

And Henry Gale is Ben right? He seemed pretty cool, and the actor is from Iowa which is always a plus for me. I have seen a couple random episodes with him, I mostly just remember one where he had a ghost living in his cabin that he took orders from (I think it ended up being the Good island god guy).

It's like a friend of mine tried out Firefly but quit because she just wasn't enjoying it. It had some good characters, but the episodes were boring. When did she quit?

Shindig. You can't really fault her too much for that, right? Shindig's a really mediocre episode and she's only had the Train Job and Bushwhacked before it, both of which are completely forgettable episodes.

I loved Shindig. I know I am in the minority here, but I really do love that episode, it is in my top half of Firefly episodes. Also, Safe is in my bottom three (Heart of Gold, Bushwhacked, Safe). But I will stick with a show for good characters and bad plot (see No Ordinary Family). I will almost never stick with something for good plot and bad characters. That is what LOST was for me.

most of the characters were falling out of awesomeness by that point.

Herein lies the problem. There was no "falling out of awesomeness" for me, there was "going from mediocre to bad". As I said there were only a few characters I liked or cared anything about after one season. Hurley, Charlie, Sawyer. That's it. And Charlie was mostly because I was still enjoying making Hobbit jokes. So them going downhill in season two gave me no reason to keep watching. And I could not stand watching Kate become more and more of a Mary Sue. I think I may have seen The Long Con? I think my sister may have had me watch it to try and get me not to quit.

There's a certain character coming up on both Maniac's and my lists that I will freely point out how I thought Shannon's character could have gone, how I thought the writers would have developed her. I was wrong and disappoints me a bit, but at the time, I thought Shannon was going to be incredible (or at least attempted to be).

Okay, now I'm intrigued.


Christian Kane in that warehouse combat scene. My most recent memory of it was that the initial charm was lost and that it was kind of hokey.

God I hated that scene. It was just ridiculous.

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(Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

Well, maybe not as much as I thought.

As I was writing up for Shannon, it was less "here's this character who was terrible and annoying and could become the best character ever" and more "here's where Shannon's faults were, here's how I understand these actions and motivations of her character, here are my interpretations of why things happened, and here's a quick look at why I was looking forward to her in Season 2 and how I think it was setting something up but since I never watch past "Do No Harm" anymore except for "Exodus" I don't clearly remember anything that goes on here."

So... yes, I thought she had the underlying strengths and potential to become not a total badass, but a competent and favorable character to the masses and... you know what? Lost has that. Lost has a character who grew to become a de facto leader of the group from a solitary position, even though the difference between Shannon and this other character is that the character was already a favorite. This wasn't taking a bad character and making them great just to play with the audience. It was taking an already good character and just adding more to them.

And since there's nothing about the show or comparable character in question, I'll just post my thoughts on Shannon unedited.


*LOST SEASON 1 AND SEASON 2 SPOILERS*

Let's discuss Shannon Rutherford for just a moment. Shannon started off the whiny, bratty, entitled and self-absorbed eye candy of the show with a penchant for stealing money from her family, incest, and being useless. She was annoying, it's true. Not many people liked her outside her looks. Some may have even been jealous she got to **** Ian Somerhalder's character. I don't know; I've never beena Boone fan. But I could have been a major Shannon fan.

There were signs late in Season 1 that Shannon's character was going to grow. Early in the season, we saw how incompetent and self-interested she was and how much she relied on her brother for help, even if she turned his aid away at every opportunity. She wanted to be her own independent person, but she didn't have the strength or character to take responsibility for herself especially when free care was provided by her brother. When the discovery of the Hatch came and Boone started seeing other people, Shannon was left to her own devices. She has no confidence in herself and it's a bitter self-hate. She's pretty and can be charming, but she has no substance and that can be very frustrating.

When Sayid comes to see if she can translate the French notes left by Rousseau, her gut reaction is that this is a prank by Boone. Why? Because she has no self-worth. Why would anyone come to her for help when there are so many other people around who can do things like heal people or build things or hunt? And even after realizing that it's not a prank and she's the only person Sayid knows with a skillset that can help, she still can't think positive. She thinks he doesn't want her help because he has confidence in her; he wants her help because she's the only one who can do it. And for some reason, that's a negative. It's not about the responsibility of being able to do something, it's that she's the only one who can do it that makes her feel less about it because if there were someone else around who could do it, she wouldn't have even been asked. And yet, even finally taking on some responsibility and trying to participate in the society of the island, she self-sabotages. She explains away all her possible feats, she second guesses everything she does, she goes into a downward spiral of excuses and frustration partly because of herself and partly because she thinks she's failing. Why?

Because to both of them, the notes are gibberish. Rousseau's writing makes no sense.

[We see Shannon and Sayid working on the translation.]

SHANNON: A des reflets d'argent. La mer des reflets changeants -- the sea of sparkles? No, wait, um, the sea of silver sparkles that change. [Sort of laughing] It's the same as the last one.

SAYID: Are you sure? [Slightly annoyed.] But the equation is completely different. It doesn't relate. What you're saying doesn't make any sense.

SHANNON: Okay?

SAYID: What about this one? It should say something about latitude or longitude, something about the stars...

SHANNON: Okay, just give me some room, okay? Um, next to the pond, blue, um, blue eternity, blue eternity? No, wait, no, blue infinity.

SAYID: Blue infinity?

SHANNON: Blue infinity. There's something about this that is so familiar.

SAYID: You've been telling me what sounds very much like nonsense for the past hour and now it seems to me...

SHANNON: Okay, a) I told you that my French sucks, and b) this isn't my nonsense, okay? Did you ever think that after 16 years on Mystery *****in' Island your friend might not be quite adjusted?

SAYID: [picking up the papers] This was a mistake.

SHANNON: Yeah, haven't you heard? I'm completely useless.

[Shannon walks off, upset]

She's finally applying herself to the task at hand, finally mustering up the courage to do something, and even to the best of her ability, it seems she's completely screwed up and failed the only person who has come to her for help. It has to be devastating.

And yet, later that night, she finally realizes what it all meant. Instead of hiding and never trying again in fear of another failure, she goes to that person and explains what it was. She sings. She just lets herself and her hangups go for this one moment just to tell the person what they needed to know.

I got a bit long on that, because what I really wanted to talk about was the set-up for her eventual character.

In "Outlaws," Locke shows up and tells a random story to Sawyer and Kate about a dog his foster mother or sister had that she felt was an old dead loved one come back to comfort and guide her. It was like five minutes long and had nothing to do with anything.

At some point, either that episode or another, she goes up bugging Locke about Boone, but he turns it around on her and makes a pointed statement about her wants and desires. I don't remember it clearly, but it was a strongly inquistive and introspective question that Locke was fond of making and Shannon, who easily absorbs what other people say about her, would have given lots of pause to think about.


And then her brother died. While she's off having a wonderful date with her new beau, her brother dies in her absence. The one time since the crash she's not around on the beach waiting for something, whether it's rescue or her brother to need her for once or anything, something devastating happens in her life. This is the first time she's really involved with something that affects a lot of other castaways because Boone was a part of people's lives. Not as mcuh as others, but he was always there to try and help. And now he's dead. Shannon grieves and tries to kill the man she thinks responsible; she lashes out. She can't deal with the loss. She is all alone again and she is deathly afraid, maybe because she doesn't trust herself to take care of herself. She loves her brother, but she also needs her brother and is afraid to face a world without him there to get her out of a jam.

Exodus is when I really think her character's going to do a 180 over the next few seasons. She's dealing with her grief and pain and fears. She could become very bitter (and she really did seem it next season). Then there was Walt. Walt, this special insightful little boy who seems to know things that could happen and has a psychic attunement to the island, chooses her. Out of everybody else on the island, he chooses Shannon to take care of Vincent. Walt, who loves his dog and regularly runs off into the jungle to find him, gives care and responsibility to probably the least responsible person on the island. Why? It isn't out of respect for her brother's death, I don't think. It's not pitying or consoling act. He wouldn't give care of his best friend to someone just to make the other person feel better. That doesn't seem like Walt. He could've chosen anybody on the island. Why Shannon? He chose her because he thought she was the best person for the job. Yes, the absence of Boone was a part of it, but it's because Shannon would be the best person to love Vincent as Walt loved Vincent. Walt trusted her. He trusted her more than anyone else there even though they had never shared a scene together. And Shannon was touched by it.

Remember when Sayid asked Shannon for help and Shannon rebuffed him because he only asked because she was the only one who could do it? She was the only one who could speak french and so it had to be her? If there was anyone else who could speak French, she'd be completely ignored so it angered her. But this? Almost anyone can care for a dog. Lots of people own dogs and give them happy healthy lives. Walt could have given Vincent's care to anyone, but he chose her.

Between the loss of her caretaker and her shelter, and the gift of trust from a stranger (because that's what Vincent was, a gift of trust because Walt wouldn't give Vincent to someone who couldn't take care of him), Shannon was set to get started on her journey. There were a lot of clues through Locke's few appearances with her that she was set for going places.

Alas, it was not to be. Whether it was fan backlash, a punishment for wanting to be in the X3, or mishandling of the character in Season 2 (which happened for nearly every character), she didn't go anywhere. Even though she was even more whiny and ggravating than usual in the first episode, it was understandable. Her brother's only been int he ground a few days and she's still wrapping her head aroudn being given responsibility of Vincent. She lashes out, it's how she reacts. And even worse for her, there's another La Mer moment when she sees backwards-talking dripping Walt. She doesn't understand it and it makes no sense, but it happened and nobody believes her. Just like the French scribblings were a song. She knows she was right and she's not mistaken, but it makes so little sense that no one can believe her.

I don't know. I really saw her character growing into someone strong and confident later on. It would be a slow process, but eventually she'd be trying things she didn't think she could do before and finding she's good at them and really starting to get involved. She still can see things that make no sense, but people eventually learn to trust her. She becomes a competent member of the society. A leader? No. A Mary Sue? God I hope not. But maybe like how Sawyer developed or Hurley where people are comfortable with her and she does things without the kneejerk self-loathing. She just finds a role in the group and she begins to really love and trust herself, and consequently, love and trust other people too.

Dammit Shannon!

Peeking in to say that How I Met Your Mother is too low on both your lists.

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