Poll of the Day > Riots everywhere, WTF is going on around here (Netherlands, for clarity)

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Nichtcrawler X
01/24/21 7:20:45 PM
#1:


Only two nights of curfew so far, but riots in multiple major cities,hospitals and testing streets getting ransacked. Across two days starting at the first curfew yesterday at 21:00. The ME (Mobile Police Unit) being deployed to multiple cities, responding with heavy material and arrests in the ten-folds for each location.

This all just seems unreal and very not Dutch...

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shadowsword87
01/24/21 7:23:42 PM
#2:


Seems like you would know more than anyone else.
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Nichtcrawler X
01/24/21 7:24:53 PM
#3:


It is more a rhetorical question, a cry of disbelief.

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Mead
01/24/21 7:31:46 PM
#4:


I think the Netherlands is like Europes hat

Also I cant remember if it is its own country or if its a whole group of em

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Nichtcrawler X
01/24/21 7:35:51 PM
#5:


Mead posted...
Also I cant remember if it is its own country or if its a whole group of em
I tend to wonder the same about the US.


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FrozenBananas
01/24/21 7:47:41 PM
#6:


Wow so its not just America for once?

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Raddest_Chad
01/24/21 9:07:01 PM
#7:


Is anyone blaming Germany? :P
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Nichtcrawler X
01/24/21 9:16:54 PM
#8:


Raddest_Chad posted...
Is anyone blaming Germany? :P

The state news did put emphasis on the fact that this is the first time there is a curfew in effect since WW2...

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ParanoidObsessive
01/24/21 10:22:26 PM
#9:


This book had an interesting theory:

http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-21st-Century-Yuval-Harari/dp/0525512195

It pretty much boils down to the idea that most people today have been left completely bewildered and unbalanced by the growing disruptions caused by technology and the loss of cultural narratives that were once comforting illusions, and we're all mostly just freaking the fuck out until we can come up with another story to define the universe with. Because humans basically see everything through the lens of narrative, even when it's kind of bullshit.
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Judgmenl
01/24/21 10:53:43 PM
#10:


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shadowsword87
01/25/21 3:19:51 AM
#11:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
This book had an interesting theory:

http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-21st-Century-Yuval-Harari/dp/0525512195

It pretty much boils down to the idea that most people today have been left completely bewildered and unbalanced by the growing disruptions caused by technology and the loss of cultural narratives that were once comforting illusions, and we're all mostly just freaking the fuck out until we can come up with another story to define the universe with. Because humans basically see everything through the lens of narrative, even when it's kind of bullshit.

Yeah that feels like "old man yells at clouds".
People weren't suddenly more pure and wholesome before we could talk to someone 500 miles away, people have always gotten angry and riot-y, and then things changed.
It's a cycle of the world, the internet hasn't changed that fact, just made it more noticeable.
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Nichtcrawler X
01/25/21 9:43:45 AM
#12:


More riots being announced on social media...

Really wondering what these people think they could possible be accomplishing...

Edit: apparently not just rioting, but explicitly plundering... Yes, because further victimizing other victims, is really going to improve how people see the anti-lockdown/curfew movement...

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Judgmenl
01/25/21 9:56:34 AM
#13:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
More riots being announced on social media...

Really wondering what these people think they could possible be accomplishing...

Edit: apparently not just rioting, but explicitly plundering... Yes, because further victimizing other victims, is really going to improve how people see the anti-lockdown/curfew movement...
Hey at least you didn't have.
  • Attempted Hostage situation against a governor buy a para-militia organization.
  • Attempted overthrow of the government by the government's leader
Oh btw #2 is not even going to be charged. It's going to be swept under the rug because people like Zeus exist.

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Nichtcrawler X
01/25/21 9:59:19 AM
#14:


That is my point, everything felt very 0 to 100 overnight.

Before this, the only real noticable thing that happened was people beating pots and pans outside the office of the First Minister, while he gave a speech announcing the current lockdown. Which certainly had some rot apples, but still fell within the defines of a peaceful protest.

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SpaceBear_
01/25/21 10:04:30 AM
#15:


There's Dutch riots in my town every year.

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Nichtcrawler X
01/25/21 10:17:51 AM
#16:


SpaceBear_ posted...
There's Dutch riots in my town every year.

Do tell more.

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ParanoidObsessive
01/25/21 11:18:13 AM
#17:


shadowsword87 posted...
Yeah that feels like "old man yells at clouds".

It's more like "Young gay Israeli man yells at clouds". And then he pulls a Sunny and suggests we should all learn to meditate before the Singularity turns us all into cyborgs.

BUT!



shadowsword87 posted...
People weren't suddenly more pure and wholesome before we could talk to someone 500 miles away, people have always gotten angry and riot-y, and then things changed.

It's a cycle of the world, the internet hasn't changed that fact, just made it more noticeable

Nah, his view way more complicated than that. And you're actually kind of agreeing with him without knowing it.

His theory is basically that, because humans see the world in stories (and we basically do, this has been a thing sociologists figured out a while ago), we feel most comfortable when we have a single defining story that explains how things are "supposed" to work. For most of human history you can kind of point to the dominant paradigm (whether religion, or the concept of nobility/royalty being better than the masses, etc) and know how most people are defining the universe and their place in it. It's not always the SAME story, but there usually IS one.

When a given story "fails" (ie, events in the world call that story into question, because the story can no longer explain why things are happening, or because a new story has come into being that seems to explain things better), that story essentially "dies", and is replaced by a new one. So most of human history is basically one long chain of humans in different places and times shifting from one story to another. Conflict occurs when two contradictory stories overlap and fight for dominance, chaos occurs when a story collapses with no alternative to replace it.

(A similar theory is actually sort of discussed in Tamim Ansary's book "The Invention of Yesterday", where he discusses the dominant paradigms of various historical regions, how conflict occurred when they would butt up against neighboring paradigms, and how they would ultimately either replace each other or or "blesh" - blend/mesh - into a new paradigm, and why some paradigms could easily move into some places while seeming being antithetical to others.)

Harari's theory is essentially that the 20th century was dominated by three major stories (nationalism/fascism, communism/socialism, and capitalism/liberalism). WWII sort of killed the allure of fascism for most people, and the fall of the USSR did the same for communism. Which mostly left "liberalism" as the dominant global paradigm. But over the last decade or so faith in that has waned as well (he draws the line back to the financial crisis of 2008, but there's probably other potential causes as well - which includes the fact that the rapid growth of technology and inter-connectedness isn't necessarily handled well-enough by existing ideological models, so the overwhelming glut of information is leading to disillusionment), so people are sort of left without any comforting fiction or narrative to believe in.

In essence, we're a bunch of children panicking and drowning in existential terror. He points to things like Brexit and Donald Trump getting elected as symptoms of that decline, as people feel more and more helpless and lost in a world they thought they understood. I'd go farther to say that it could easily explain riots as well (especially when you factor in the increased hysteria generated by a year-long pandemic lockdown), and if we really want to feel saucy, we could pull things like identity politics and "the culture war" into the mix (because that's literally people who feel alienated with how they see the world desperately trying to redefine their place in it).

Not saying that it's 100% the answer to everything, but it's an interesting theory to consider. Especially if we're trying to understand why everyone seems to be going a bit batshit crazy lately. Doubly so because, if anyone ever wants to FIX things, you sort of need to understand why/how those things are broken in the first place. Short-term quick-fix solutions that address symptoms rather than underlying causes rarely ever solve anything at all.
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ReturnOfFa
01/25/21 11:32:23 AM
#18:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
It's more like "Young gay Israeli man yells at clouds". And then he pulls a Sunny and suggests we should all learn to meditate before the Singularity turns us all into cyborgs.

Excuse me?

**EDIT: The wall of text is good XD

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ParanoidObsessive
01/25/21 11:48:44 AM
#19:


ReturnOfFa posted...
Excuse me?

You heard me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuval_Noah_Harari
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SpaceBear_
01/25/21 12:12:40 PM
#20:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
Do tell more.

Youngsters on their summer holidays.

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Nichtcrawler X
01/25/21 12:15:47 PM
#21:


SpaceBear_ posted...
Youngsters on their summer holidays.

Still need more. Only somewhat international disturbances I remember were Dutch Football Hooligans in Rome.

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SpaceBear_
01/25/21 1:55:10 PM
#22:


'Riots' is kind of hyperbolic, but there's fights every week from May til July. Often football related. Often alcohol related. Only tends to make local news.

And they usually blame the British.

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Revelation34
01/25/21 2:02:47 PM
#23:


Judgmenl posted...
Attempted overthrow of the government by the government's leader
Oh btw #2 is not even going to be charged. It's going to be swept under the rug because people like Zeus exist.


Or the fact that the constitution exists.
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Judgmenl
01/25/21 2:30:33 PM
#24:


I report anyone who incites violence against my country.

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CarefreeDude
01/25/21 2:31:59 PM
#25:


Has the age of vikings returned?

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Revelation34
01/25/21 2:58:40 PM
#26:


Judgmenl posted...
I report anyone who incites violence against my country.


Well good thing nobody does that here.
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Arcturusisnow
01/25/21 4:57:13 PM
#27:


Judgmenl posted...
Hey at least you didn't have.
* Attempted Hostage situation against a governor buy a para-militia organization.
* Attempted overthrow of the government by the government's leader
Oh btw #2 is not even going to be charged. It's going to be swept under the rug because people like @Zeus exist.
We have to have him in here so he can spout his insane bullshit.
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LuciferSage
01/25/21 5:37:51 PM
#28:


It's almost as if Covid fatigue is driving people to lash out after a year...

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ParanoidObsessive
01/25/21 5:43:25 PM
#29:


LuciferSage posted...
It's almost as if Covid fatigue is driving people to lash out after a year...

A year? People started lashing out a couple months in.
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LuciferSage
01/25/21 5:47:49 PM
#30:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
A year? People started lashing out a couple months in.

Granted, but I have to imagine that the Netherlands hasn't been inundated with a constant stream of divisive media fanning every ember for the 4 years prior to this.

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Yellow
01/25/21 6:13:43 PM
#31:


LuciferSage posted...
Granted, but I have to imagine that the Netherlands hasn't been inundated with a constant stream of divisive media fanning every ember for the 4 years prior to this.
According to Tucker Carlson, the most watched talk show in America, Democrats are literally planning a war against Republicans.

I missed the memo and feel left out, you know?

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