Current Events > What should the Washington Redskins change their name to?

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DezDroppedFreak
07/03/20 12:33:25 AM
#53:


crucial2099 posted...
youre one native american. you do not represent the opinion of an entire people
Alright so youre trolling since you are literally posting anecdotal evidence for your claim.

At least you can be tagged appropriately now

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MabusIncarnate
07/03/20 12:34:07 AM
#54:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Literally the original name was Washington Warriors. Just use that. Is there some stupid naming conflict with GSW that might prevent that?
It could be honestly. There was an issue with the new expansion NHL team Golden Knights because the US Army had a squad named the same thing or something along those lines.

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ScazarMeltex
07/03/20 12:34:13 AM
#55:


crucial2099 posted...
the only dumb person here is the one who insists on calling otheres dumb. (you). stfu before you hurt yourself
Not likely to happen. I need you to explain how a poll from 2016 is more accurate to people's current sentiments on a subject than one taken earlier this year.

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Frisk
07/03/20 12:34:35 AM
#56:


Washington Indians

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crucial2099
07/03/20 12:34:54 AM
#57:


xMythic posted...

This is exactly why I don't bother posting a lot in topics like these. Some people's heads are made of fucking granite. Can't get through to them no matter what.

so you believe one person represents an entire people? lol. if my heads granite yours is unbreakable adamantium. that is a poll of one, and you wanna refute a poll of 500 lol.

stfu please
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Stalolin
07/03/20 12:37:34 AM
#58:


crucial2099 posted...
so you believe one person represents an entire people? lol. if my heads granite yours is unbreakable adamantium. that is a poll of one, and you wanna refute a poll of 500 lol.

stfu please

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legendary_zell
07/03/20 12:38:14 AM
#59:


xMythic posted...
Just stop guy. You don't have any business speaking for an entire group of people, especially one you are not a part of, especially one so large and diverse. I'm Native. I live on a reservation. That team name is something my tribe, and other tribes in the area, are very much against. I have friends and family from other tribes around the country, and up into Canada. I don't know a single one who is for the name.

Sure that name, that slur, has lost most of its bite over the years. Hell, if someone called me a redskin I would probably laugh. Shit, I've been called much worse for absolutely no reason other than the color of my skin. NBD. Older generations would definitely have a much stronger reaction. But it's still a slur, it's marginalizing, and it needs to go. No other group of people would have to deal with this. It wouldn't even be perpetuated, but here we are. Keep the colors and the best looking uniforms in football, just change the fucking name.

You don't understand the dynamics of being Native American. Shame and self-hate, beaten into us during colonization and the decades long boarding school era, play a big role in why some Natives are ok with that name. There are many of who would rather not make a fuss, would much rather go with flow, go against their best interests even, in the hopes that society won't notice they are Native. And then there of us, like myself, who are concentrating on solving issues and breaking negative cycles in their own community to really devote too much time to the name change, who are ok with the name if only because it's not even on their radar. Trust me, that has a big impact on the favorable polls you cherry-picked.

And I've just written a long ass post on fucking GameFAQS, trying to explain things to people who don't really give a shit.

Dude doesn't care, he's wrong and proud of it because of "cancel culture." He is only citing those polls from 2016 as a bludgeon against non-Natives to say that we shouldn't care because Natives allegedly don't care. But I remember the debates about those polls in 2016 and they were debunked even at the time. If you said you didn't care, he'd credit you and use you as a weapon, now that you've said you do care, you're oversensitive and can't speak for others. This is the exact same debate that was had in 2016 and the same debate about Confederate monuments. Some people are just fundamentally opposed to the idea that things they're used to and that don't bother them personally should be changed because they are symbols of other people's subjugation.

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ohiostate124
07/03/20 12:40:15 AM
#60:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Literally the original name was Washington Warriors. Just use that. Is there some stupid naming conflict with GSW that might prevent that?
When was that? They were originally the Boston Braves.
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BobbyBrownLove
07/03/20 12:42:00 AM
#61:


Washington Blackskins.

Yeah, see how fast the country would explode. Even as a redskins fan, the name is racist as fuck. Change it to something that references native americans but not that lmao.

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crucial2099
07/03/20 12:42:14 AM
#62:


https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/7/2/21311270/the-redskins-racism-and-the-future-of-a-franchise

Redskin Was an American Indian Creation
The gold-standard work on the etymology of red skin was conducted by Smithsonian Senior Linguist, Ives Goddard, in 2005. I am a Red-skin: Adoption of a Native American Expression (1769-1826), goes into painstaking detail exploring the first appearance of the term redskin in the Americas and concludes the following:

The word redskin reflects a genuine Native American idiom that was used in several languages, where it grew out of an earlier established and more widespread use of red and white as racial labels. This terminology was developed by Native Americans to label new categories of the new ethnic and political reality that they confronted with the coming of the Europeans.

In the early 1800s, the term red-skin was used by American Indian leaders to create a sense of supra-tribal identity when negotiating with the US Federal Government. It was intended to reference American Indian solidarity and unity, and to contrast these collected individuals with their whiteskin negotiating partners (e.g., the French, British, and former American colonists).


read this and stop embarrassing yourselves.i trust our native american friend will take the time to learn about his own history too.
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xMythic
07/03/20 12:42:50 AM
#63:


crucial2099 posted...
so you believe one person represents an entire people? lol. if my heads granite yours is unbreakable adamantium. that is a poll of one, and you wanna refute a poll of 500 lol.

stfu please
I was right. You aren't even worth engaging with.

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crucial2099
07/03/20 12:43:31 AM
#64:


xMythic posted...

I was right. You aren't even worth engaging with.


yea youre right. im far more intelligent than you and naturally unbiased. see yourself out. ta ta
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KingArthur3D
07/03/20 12:45:14 AM
#65:



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DezDroppedFreak
07/03/20 12:45:22 AM
#66:


Im not biased

>posts an article from a Foreskins page to defend their name choice

ok pal

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Stalolin
07/03/20 12:46:24 AM
#67:


legendary_zell posted...
Dude doesn't care, he's wrong and proud of it because of "cancel culture." He is only citing those polls from 2016 as a bludgeon against non-Natives to say that we shouldn't care because Natives allegedly don't care. But I remember the debates about those polls in 2016 and they were debunked even at the time. If you said you didn't care, he'd credit you and use you as a weapon, now that you've said you do care, you're oversensitive and can't speak for others. This is the exact same debate that was had in 2016 and the same debate about Confederate monuments. Some people are just fundamentally opposed to the idea that things they're used to and that don't bother them personally should be changed because they are symbols of other people's subjugation.

Can I like, ask about who you are and what your background is? You're consistently one of the more level-headed and wise posters I've seen on CE.
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GregShmedley
07/03/20 12:47:18 AM
#68:


The Washington Monuments.

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crucial2099
07/03/20 12:49:40 AM
#69:


DezDroppedFreak posted...
Im not biased

>posts an article from a Foreskins page to defend their name choice

ok pal

red skin was a term created by the natives themselves lol. you already lost the argument. youre only doubling down on your own ignorance lmao
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legendary_zell
07/03/20 12:49:50 AM
#70:


crucial2099 posted...
https://www.hogshaven.com/2020/7/2/21311270/the-redskins-racism-and-the-future-of-a-franchise

read this and stop embarrassing yourselves.i trust our native american friend will take the time to learn about his own history too.

First of all, telling a Native American to learn his own history is mind bendingly racist. You should be ashamed of yourself. Second of all, did you even read this article that you're citing?

"With the conflicts between white Americans and American Indians dropping off - as a result of their near extermination - after the early 20th century, the usage of redskin to describe anyone other than Washington, DCs football team, declined steeply in the 1950s. And, in a certain irony, an accurate descriptivist account would again register that shift. The word redskin went from a self-description of American Indian people (contrasted with the new immigrants), to a pejorative description of the American Indian people (by the new immigrants), to a description of a football team and its players. Any prescriptivist account, that the word only means one of those things, misses the mark and the complexity of its history. One particularly sticky element of the word redskin, however, is the direct link between its connotations and the complexion of its utterer.
It would be tone deaf, and oblivious to history, for white Americans, and white Redskins fans to fail to recognize that, for many American Indians, white people calling them redskins is synonymous with this countrys attempt to exterminate them. That is certainly not the way I believe most Washington Redskins fans use the word, but it is important recognize why some see it as malignant. However weve also seen that the meanings of words can (and do) change."

That's a quote from the article disproving the very point you're so condescendingly trying to make. You've outed and embarrassed yourself in this topic.


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crucial2099
07/03/20 12:51:08 AM
#71:


legendary_zell posted...


First of all, telling a Native American to learn his own history is mind bendingly racist. You should be ashamed of yourself. Second of all, did you even read this article that you're citing?

"With the conflicts between white Americans and American Indians dropping off - as a result of their near extermination - after the early 20th century, the usage of redskin to describe anyone other than Washington, DCs football team, declined steeply in the 1950s. And, in a certain irony, an accurate descriptivist account would again register that shift. The word redskin went from a self-description of American Indian people (contrasted with the new immigrants), to a pejorative description of the American Indian people (by the new immigrants), to a description of a football team and its players. Any prescriptivist account, that the word only means one of those things, misses the mark and the complexity of its history. One particularly sticky element of the word redskin, however, is the direct link between its connotations and the complexion of its utterer.
It would be tone deaf, and oblivious to history, for white Americans, and white Redskins fans to fail to recognize that, for many American Indians, white people calling them redskins is synonymous with this countrys attempt to exterminate them. That is certainly not the way I believe most Washington Redskins fans use the word, but it is important recognize why some see it as malignant. However weve also seen that the meanings of words can (and do) change."

That's a quote from the article disproving the very point you're so condescendingly trying to make. You've outed and embarrassed yourself in this topic.


lol uh no telling someone not to be ignorant of their own past is not racist. that was a reach
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legendary_zell
07/03/20 12:52:07 AM
#72:


Stalolin posted...
Can I like, ask about who you are and what your background is? You're consistently one of the more level-headed and wise posters I've seen on CE.

I'm an immigrant lawyer who still visits this site out of pure habit because I've been on it since I was 14. I don't want to create a Reddit account and this site is a good reminder of how non-woke people think, so I come here and talk about RPGs and Politics.

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DezDroppedFreak
07/03/20 12:52:32 AM
#73:


legendary_zell posted...
Second of all, did you even read this article that you're citing?
He clearly is not capable of that because earlier in the topic he said he could find many polls about Native Americans not being offended but every article he linked talked about the same poll, except for one which did not include any polling

then he will also cry about anecdotal evidence then turn around and fall back on anecdotal evidence

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Stalolin
07/03/20 12:54:09 AM
#74:


legendary_zell posted...
I'm an immigrant lawyer who still visits this site out of pure habit because I've been on it since I was 14. I don't want to create a Reddit account and this site is a good reminder of how non-woke people think, so I come here and talk about RPGs and Politics.

Haha, interesting. I was a lawyer once, but didn't last long. Much respect to you!
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crucial2099
07/03/20 12:55:24 AM
#75:


DezDroppedFreak posted...

He clearly is not capable of that because earlier in the topic he said he could find many polls about Native Americans not being offended but every article he linked talked about the same poll, except for one which did not include any polling

then he will also cry about anecdotal evidence then turn around and fall back on anecdotal evidence

an etymologist already uncovered the origins of the term red skin and found that it was a native american creation. keep digging your hole buddy lol

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Cornmuffins
07/03/20 12:58:07 AM
#76:


Who is this guy anyway? Is this the "I have a black friend, so I can say x" argument? The polls are dated. That is a fact.

Never seen him pop up until this topic, and no I don't care if you know who I am, but geez.
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Wii_Shaker
07/03/20 12:59:54 AM
#77:


Cornmuffins posted...
Who is this guy anyway? Is this the "I have a black friend, so I can say x" argument? The polls are dated. That is a fact.

Never seen him pop up until this topic, and no I don't care if you know who I am, but geez.

He's a bonafide clown shoe and I have my eye on him now.

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Tyranthraxus
07/03/20 1:00:11 AM
#78:


legendary_zell: reputable facts, history, myth debunking, welll thought out arguments.

crucial2099: "no u"

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crucial2099
07/03/20 1:00:17 AM
#79:


Cornmuffins posted...
Who is this guy anyway? Is this the "I have a black friend, so I can say x" argument? The polls are dated. That is a fact.

Never seen him pop up until this topic, and no I don't care if you know who I am, but geez.

lol thats a good one. because your gfaqs tenure dictates the validity of ones words. gtfo
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ThePrinceFish
07/03/20 1:00:22 AM
#80:


Wii_Shaker posted...
He's a bonafide clown shoe and I have my eye on him now.
uh oh Wii_Shaker is on the case

Lmao holy shit the arrogance

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crucial2099
07/03/20 1:00:41 AM
#81:


crucial2099 posted...
an etymologist already uncovered the origins of the term red skin and found that it was a native american creation.
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Lorenzo_2003
07/03/20 1:00:51 AM
#82:


Gonna have to change Washington, too. People are clamoring for that name to be removed from streets and such, as well as removing Mount Rushmore. Im betting its only a matter of time.

Might as well just assign numbers to all teams like NFC #3 and AFC #8. Even this might cause offense at some point, but its fairly neutral for now.

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Wii_Shaker
07/03/20 1:01:10 AM
#83:


ThePrinceFish posted...
uh oh Wii_Shaker is on the case

Lmao holy shit the arrogance

Ok. And who tf are you?

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legendary_zell
07/03/20 1:02:15 AM
#84:


crucial2099 posted...
an etymologist already uncovered the origins of the term red skin and found that it was a native american creation. keep digging your hole buddy lol



What do you think the reaction would be if you called a group of Native strangers that term in 2020, not 18XX? Do you think they would take it as a term of pan-tribal identity? Do you go around calling black people negroes because that wasn't an offensive term when it was first used and was used by black people to refer to themselves? If so, it's not safe for you to walk around without adult supervision.

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ThePrinceFish
07/03/20 1:02:42 AM
#85:


Wii_Shaker posted...
Ok. And who tf are you?
Someone who is worried that you might turn your watchful gaze on him too. Please be merciful.

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DezDroppedFreak
07/03/20 1:02:45 AM
#86:


crucial2099 posted...
an etymologist already uncovered the origins of the term red skin and found that it was a native american creation. keep digging your hole buddy lol



your own Foreskins article addressed this.

A descriptivist account would surely recognize that sometime in the period after redskin initially had positive connotations of American Indian unity and solidarity, its usage took on a much darker meaning. As the orientation of the new (white) Americans shifted from one of sympathy towards the American Indians, in the late 1700s and early 1800s, to enmity in the mid-1800s and beyond, with westward expansion, the word itself transformed
The word itself was composed of the exact same letters, yet its effect was the polar opposite of its initial usage, because though it was describing the same group of people, its intent had been changed by the users.

I know you cant comprehend that words change meaning over time but do try to keep up

oh hes suspended. Good

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Tyranthraxus
07/03/20 1:03:07 AM
#87:


Lorenzo_2003 posted...
Gonna have to change Washington, too. People are clamoring for that name to be removed from streets and such, as well as removing Mount Rushmore. Im betting its only a matter of time.

Might as well just assign numbers to all teams like NFC #3 and AFC #8. Even this might cause offense at some point, but its fairly neutral for now.

Removing mount Rushmore is not a new thing in fact there was a lot of Aboriginal resistance to putting it up in the first place but they were ignored as usual.

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Cornmuffins
07/03/20 1:04:32 AM
#88:


Stalolin posted...
Haha, interesting. I was a lawyer once, but didn't last long. Much respect to you!


Once? What happened?

Only asking because I work as a law clerk and recently started paralegal school. The work is interesting, though my boss mainly deals with criminal and family law cases.
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pkmnlord
07/03/20 1:04:33 AM
#89:


How about, the Washington 'Skinz

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Wii_Shaker
07/03/20 1:05:07 AM
#90:


ThePrinceFish posted...
Someone who is worried that you might turn your watchful gaze on him too. Please be merciful.
Oh wow. Looks like I found the other clown shoe in the pair.

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ThePrinceFish
07/03/20 1:06:43 AM
#91:


Wii_Shaker posted...
Oh wow. Looks like I found the other clown shoe in the pair.
Was that supposed to hurt my feelings? From the guy who announces that he "has his eye" on CE users.

What are you going to do next, tag me?

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Lorenzo_2003
07/03/20 1:07:19 AM
#93:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Removing mount Rushmore is not a new thing in fact there was a lot of Aboriginal resistance to putting it up in the first place but they were ignored as usual.

Yes, Im not saying its a new thing. Im saying the fact there are people who want it gone is a thing to consider, if the whole point of changing names is to avoid offense.

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legendary_zell
07/03/20 1:07:43 AM
#94:


Cornmuffins posted...
Once? What happened?

Only asking because I work as a law clerk and recently started paralegal school. The work is interesting, though my boss mainly deals with criminal and family law cases.

I'd also like to know. It happens a lot, unfortunately. Unless you can find a good niche, the profession is often soul sucking. Almost none of my close friends that are lawyers are regular attorneys and a good number of them are doing other things entirely now.

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Wii_Shaker
07/03/20 1:08:25 AM
#95:


ThePrinceFish posted...
Was that supposed to hurt my feelings? From the guy who announces that he "has his eye" on CE users.

What are you going to do next, tag me?
I don't care man. Stop trying to get a rise out of me. You mean nothing.

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Stalolin
07/03/20 1:09:46 AM
#96:


Cornmuffins posted...
Once? What happened?

Only asking because I work as a law clerk and recently started paralegal school. The work is interesting, though my boss mainly deals with criminal and family law cases.

A combination of the stress of the job and working for a bad boss. A really bad boss. I also didn't really like the area of law I was in. Part of me knew from day 1 I'd end up jumping ship at some point, but a few things sped up the process. I'm in a more generic admin role nowadays in a different field but my work life balance is much better. Oddly enough I also get paid more haha, but then I was very junior where I was before, so that's to be expected.
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ThePrinceFish
07/03/20 1:10:07 AM
#97:


Wii_Shaker posted...
I don't care man. Stop trying to get a rise out of me. You mean nothing.
You can't say that, you already declared me to be some kind of clown shoes or something equally cringey. Clearly I mean something to you. Maybe not as much as crucial2099 but I'm sure you'll be keeping your eye on me too.

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Wetterdew
07/03/20 1:10:34 AM
#98:


Cassowaries

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legendary_zell
07/03/20 1:11:21 AM
#99:


Crucial really did a great speedrun of tanking his online reputation in this topic, so much that his account couldn't take it. Impressive.

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__starsnostars
07/03/20 1:14:00 AM
#100:


Considering Washington is the capital. Why not just named them the Washington Capitals. Has a good ring to it. You can spell out the name for the logo, maybe turn the p into a stylized football.

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Cornmuffins
07/03/20 1:14:03 AM
#101:


legendary_zell posted...


I'd also like to know. It happens a lot, unfortunately. Unless you can find a good niche, the profession is often soul sucking. Almost none of my close friends that are lawyers are regular attorneys and a good number of them are doing other things entirely now.


Yeah my boss got lucky I guess in that he got on a panel to handle misdemeanor cases through the county. He's a private attorney, but he'll go to court (or did...before COVID-19) and pick up cases the PD didn't want. He's going to jump up to minor felonies which should be interesting.
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ScazarMeltex
07/03/20 1:18:41 AM
#102:


Lol crucial got himself suspended.

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Slammasters
07/03/20 1:22:25 AM
#103:


DezDroppedFreak posted...
I know you cant comprehend that words change meaning over time but do try to keep up

oh hes suspended. Good

Words change meaning no one's denying that but considering the majority of Natives don't find the term offensive it's safe to say it's morphed into a benign term
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