Board 8 > Final Fantasy VII Remake Spoiler Topic 2 (spoilers in this topic too)

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MoogleKupo141
05/19/20 11:24:14 PM
#51:


Barret was always my favorite in the original. I still like him a lot here, but I agree that his voice actor is the worst of the party. Hes mostly fine, but he definitely has some line readings that were noticeably not quite right. I think it mostly comes up when hes doing his mako preaching stuff.
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lordjers
05/19/20 11:30:55 PM
#52:


Can someone spoil me and summarize what's so weird about the late-game's story? I've heard it mentioned it a few times already. Something about this been an alternate timeline? I've beaten the original, but I don't think I'll play this one ever so spoil at your heart's content.

I know the changes happen since right at the beginning, but seems the huge ones happen towards the end.

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Pirateking2000
05/19/20 11:47:30 PM
#53:


lordjers posted...
Can someone spoil me and summarize what's so weird about the late-game's story? I've heard it mentioned it a few times already. Something about this been an alternate timeline? I've beaten the original, but I don't think I'll play this one ever so spoil at your heart's content.

I know the changes happen since right at the beginning, but seems the huge ones happen towards the end.

Sephiroth has been fucking with shit and throughout the game the time janitor stuff (Whispers) gets more and more severe and off the rails (like I am talking Hojo almost spilling the beans about Cloud not being a SOLDIER and Barret getting straight up impaled by Sephiroth). They learn the nature of the Whispers as being part of the planet's will and how they are trying to maintain the same events from OG FF7 for good or ill. After some Sephiroth shenanigans they square off against The Whispers and defeat them. So now anything can happen. There are also a bunch of side effects like Biggs (and probably the rest of the AVALANCHE trio) surviving and Zack surviving the end of Crisis Core but we don't know the implications of all this.

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lordjers
05/19/20 11:59:51 PM
#55:


So Sephiroth is kinda like an evil Trunks now?

Does this time traveling explain early game stuff like why Shinra decided to blow up harder their own reactor (I saw this as a way to make Avalance look less like terrorists) this time?

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MoogleKupo141
05/20/20 12:21:55 AM
#56:


no, some stuff is just them rewriting a bit to expand on what was already there, theres no suggestion that every change is the fault of a time traveling Sephiroth.

I think the more powerful explosion thing is just to more clearly establish Heidegger and President Shinra as villains early on. Everyone gets way more screentime now obviously because theres so much more time to spend in Midgar.
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TheRock1525
05/20/20 12:23:09 AM
#57:


Do you actually fight Sephiroth?

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mccheyne
05/20/20 12:24:49 AM
#58:


Yes

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TheRock1525
05/20/20 12:26:05 AM
#59:


Lame.

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MoogleKupo141
05/20/20 12:30:23 AM
#60:


You fight a Sephiroth, but not necessarily the Sephiroth. Theres different manifestations of Sephiroth throughout and the nature of the one you fight at the end is sort of unclear
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lordjers
05/20/20 12:32:10 AM
#61:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
no, some stuff is just them rewriting a bit to expand on what was already there, theres no suggestion that every change is the fault of a time traveling Sephiroth.

I think the more powerful explosion thing is just to more clearly establish Heidegger and President Shinra as villains early on. Everyone gets way more screentime now obviously because theres so much more time to spend in Midgar.

Avalanche totally blew that thing hard in the original. That put them in a more grey area IMO.

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MoogleKupo141
05/20/20 1:23:09 AM
#62:


I think they still are in that grey area somewhat. They dont know at the time that the larger explosion is Shinras doing. Jessie is convinced she just accidentally made the bomb wrong and obviously feels a lot of remorse, but Barret is still like hey we knew there would be consequences to doing this stuff but we gotta keep going for the planet. Theres a bit near the end where president Shinra kind of validly calls out Barret on his hypocrisy
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TheRock1525
05/20/20 1:59:08 AM
#63:


Cloud got a literal handjob and came.

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TheRock1525
05/20/20 2:26:58 AM
#64:


So uh. I think I'm starting to kinda not like this game.

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Lucavi000
05/20/20 3:04:33 AM
#65:


You'll finish it and you'll like it.

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TheRock1525
05/20/20 3:07:30 AM
#66:


You're not my real dad.

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Lucavi000
05/20/20 3:07:58 AM
#67:


Good, that means you'll listen to me.

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XIII_rocks
05/20/20 3:41:34 AM
#68:


TheRock1525 posted...
Lame.

It's fucking awesome tho

And I would hope it means they feel some obligation to escalate things even further for the final fight against him. I don't need a Sephiroth fight in part 2. Save the final fight with him for part 3, if it is a 3-part thing.

Part 2 will need a big finish though I imagine, so maybe the final fight will be Jenova in the northern cave, with the ending after that being the whole photo reveal and Cloud falling into the lifestream and shit. Or maybe you fight a wounded Sapphire weapon (it survives the Sister Ray this time).

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Epyo
05/20/20 8:36:42 PM
#69:


I'm finding it sooooo hard to guess where they would end part 2, if it's gonna be a 3 part series.

The two big mid-game climaxes left are sooooo far into the game... For example, there isn't that much content after the northern cave in the original game, mostly just short fetch quests to previous areas, and then a bunch of finale fights without much new plot development. And the other climax I can think of, at the city of ancients, is only like a couple of hours before it, so it wouldn't help that much...

I also imagine they would want to save some playable characters for the 3rd game...

So I'd say game 2 would mostly be flashback, fort condor, junon, mt. corel, gold saucer, cosmo canyon, and stick wutai in somehow too? Which honestly seems like a pretty jam-packed game. Not really a good climax there, maybe they would just invent a new part, that would be exciting to finish with. New playable characters would be red, yuffie, cait sith.

Then game 3 would mostly be nibelheim, rocket town, temple of ancients, city of ancients, snow stuff, northern cave, more junon, mideel, lifestream, more midgar, finale... New characters would be vincent and cid.


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FFDragon
05/20/20 8:40:51 PM
#70:


why are there so many black bars in the spoilers topic

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Epyo
05/20/20 8:42:57 PM
#71:


it makes you look cooler

(plus theoretically maybe someone doesn't want OG ff7 spoilers (extremely theoretically))

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MoogleKupo141
05/20/20 9:00:12 PM
#72:


I wonder if theyll pad out the next part with some kind of playable Zack sequences. I dont anticipate it being as straightforward as him being alive in the world of the main party and joining them, but something where you play as him in whatever parallel dimension we see at the end of this game.

they cant just show him alive and not do anything significant with that
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_stingers_
05/20/20 9:15:09 PM
#73:


I feel like they're going to end up doing 4 parts tbh

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MartinFF7
05/20/20 9:25:34 PM
#74:


I have ideas percolating on where i think the next games are heading but I want to replay the original before I lay them out. Of course it's essentially fanfiction but it'll be fun theorizing what happens next.

High level thinking though, I think Game 2 beginning and ending with Nibelheim would be ideal. Chapter 1 Kalm flashback, which can also serve as the tutorial (for the rare new player, or for any battle system changes they've implemented since the first game). Ending in either Nibelheim (or Mt. Nibel) to bring it full circle, plus the fact there's plenty of cloaked men around and Sephiroth in the basement. Shinra Mansion itself isn't really enough for a final battle area though, and if you do it in Mt. Nibel you gotta introduce Vincent at the very end, or have them doubling back to the mansion at the beginning of the 3rd game... of course the 2nd game could end right after Rocket Town too and Vincent gets the Red XIII treatment.

I gotta play it and gauge the "padding" opportunities assuming they keep up with the chapter motif and aim for 18 chapters (give or take 1 or 2).

Game 3 prediction is it's the Wutai game, maybe not the entirety of the 3rd game but most of it. Yuffie could be introduced in game 2 or at the start of game 3, which gives you Red-Cait in game 2 and Vincent-Cid in game 3 as guaranteed new playables. We get all the Wutai stuff we know, plus all-new story relating to "Shinra attacking" them or something. I can see Wutai being pretty fleshed out and taking at least half the game; then you have the rest of Disc 1 with the logical ending point.

Realistically, the remake lays out early on that (allegedly) Avalanche was behind an assassination attempt on the president, and by the end of the game the president is dead. Nobody saw Sephiroth (except Palmer) and, unlike the original game, there's no sword in the president's back & no Palmer witness to the killing. With the Avalanche-Wutai conspiracy locked in, Rufus wanting to "avenge his father" as a fake pretext for renewed hostilities seems more likely than anything, and I think we'll see the build-up to that throughout the second game. So, major Wutai enhancement similar to the expansion of Midgar in the 3rd.

High level prediction is 5 games with 77 chapters in the end. Maybe 77 is too "on the nose", I mean they did a random-looking 18 chapters for the first game, but yeah...
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lordjers
05/20/20 9:29:35 PM
#75:


An alternate timeline would've made more sense in FF8R.

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The Mana Sword
05/20/20 9:35:26 PM
#76:


So where is the most efficient place to grind AP?

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Pirateking2000
05/20/20 10:03:11 PM
#77:


The Mana Sword posted...
So where is the most efficient place to grind AP?

Two Person Team VS High Flyers in Chapter 17

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colliding
05/20/20 10:17:00 PM
#78:


Like Martin's ideas quite a bit. Here are mine:

Game 2: Kalm/Nibelheim flashback introduction. New engine/system gives us one "open world" area with Kalm on one end, Junon on the other, and Cosmo Canyon in the middle.

Area is navigable via motorcycle (Cloud) while everyone else follows behind in a truck. Other areas include Midgar Zolom/Cave, Fort Condor, Gonzaga, Chocobo Ranch.

Midgar Zolom is seen in the main story but fighting it is optional/sidequest. Elena is introduced.

Yuffie gets introduced via Fort Condor through mostly a new narrative relating to Wutai and the Original Avalanche.

Bugenhagen/Nanaki stuff in Cosmo Canyon is mostly the same.

Gonzaga mission features a Zack flashback and a triple Turk battle.

Once the party arrives at Junon the game gets more linear, following the events of the main game somewhat. It ends after the Jenova battle on the ship. Everyone dresses in sailor outfits. Game 2 features playable Yuffie and Red XIII.

By the end of the second game, most of the new "Wutai"/original Avalanche plotlines should be relatively resolved or developed into a narrative that more closely references the Ancients/Promised Land.

Game 3: The party arrives at Costa Del Sol. Like the prior game, this one features a large open area with Gold Saucer in the middle and Nibelheim on the other end.

The plot here I imagine will be even more different/revised from Game 2, but at the very least the game needs to follow a path that takes the player through Barrett's backstory/North Corel/Cait Sith, the Nibelheim mansion/Vincent, and Rocket Town/Cid.

Based on Game 1, the developers could probably make a whole game out of Gold Saucer - lots there for padding related to Jessie, Dio, Chocobo Racing, minigames extravaganza.

After Rocket Town, the game goes "on rails" to the Temple of the Ancients and a condensed series of events that gets us to the original End of Disc One. Where Aerith lives obviously.

Game Four: I think it's possible to finish the rest of the game here. Also I wouldn't mind if the plot of this game is completely new. Scenes I would like to see however are Aerith's parents in Ice Glacier. Cloud going bonkers, Tifa escape sequence, Three separate parties looking for huge materia (including some wacky new party members like Zack, Roche, and Reno), Tifa saving Cloud in the lifestream, Vincent flashback, optional Weapon superbosses and a new final dungeon. I never liked the original's tbh. And yeah, obviously "Under the Highwind" has to make an appearance to some degree.

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Lucavi000
05/20/20 11:11:52 PM
#79:


what? how is cosmo canyon before junon in your world?

Wouldnt it be junon in the middle then across the sea costa del sol and cosmo canyon?

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turbopuns3
05/20/20 11:24:13 PM
#80:


The Mana Sword posted...
So where is the most efficient place to grind AP?


Pirateking2000 posted...
Two Person Team VS High Flyers in Chapter 17

I knew this answer already but reading it just now made me realize that my ridiculous gil stockpile from playing hard mode actually has a use. Just dump it into that first battle that takes 2 seconds and gives like 50 AP or something.
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Epyo
05/21/20 1:02:44 AM
#81:


MartinFF7 posted...
High level thinking though, I think Game 2 beginning and ending with Nibelheim would be ideal. Chapter 1 Kalm flashback, which can also serve as the tutorial (for the rare new player, or for any battle system changes they've implemented since the first game). Ending in either Nibelheim (or Mt. Nibel) to bring it full circle, plus the fact there's plenty of cloaked men around and Sephiroth in the basement. Shinra Mansion itself isn't really enough for a final battle area though...

Oh I love the idea of starting and ending with nibelheim, but yeah in the OG game almost nothing interesting happens in nibelheim and mt nibel, so they'd definitely have to add some stuff. There's totally room for them to add stuff though!

colliding posted...
Game Four: I think it's possible to finish the rest of the game here. Also I wouldn't mind if the plot of this game is completely new. Scenes I would like to see however are Aerith's parents in Ice Glacier. Cloud going bonkers, Tifa escape sequence, Three separate parties looking for huge materia (including some wacky new party members like Zack, Roche, and Reno), Tifa saving Cloud in the lifestream, Vincent flashback, optional Weapon superbosses and a new final dungeon. I never liked the original's tbh. And yeah, obviously "Under the Highwind" has to make an appearance to some degree.

All right yeaaah this does seem like a really good game...still maybe a little too short though!! But ok, get some Roche stuff in there and I'm set.

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TheRock1525
05/21/20 1:58:31 AM
#82:


I am so ready to leave Wall Market. I hope this is the nadir of this game.

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Murphiroth
05/21/20 2:20:09 AM
#83:


Wall Market is one of the best parts of the game tho

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TheRock1525
05/21/20 4:03:31 AM
#84:


I can't see how any part involving Johnny can be the best.

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Murphiroth
05/21/20 4:13:44 AM
#85:


Johnny is a pretty small part of Wall Market.

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TheRock1525
05/21/20 4:18:29 AM
#86:


He's there in some form from the very start.

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Murphiroth
05/21/20 4:24:39 AM
#87:


He still has few lines and is a minor character.

Doesn't detract from Wall Market at all. That segment is fantastic.

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TheRock1525
05/21/20 4:27:23 AM
#88:


Hey if you liked it, I'm glad.

But I really don't like any of these new characters and generally just want to leave and battle things. The battle system is the best part yet they find long excuses not to let me do it.

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ctesjbuvf
05/21/20 4:55:24 AM
#89:


Johnny can be significantly less in it depending on what sidequests you do.

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Steiner
05/21/20 5:25:39 AM
#90:


TheRock1525 posted...
But I really don't like any of these new characters and generally just want to leave and battle things. The battle system is the best part yet they find long excuses not to let me do it.

i don't have anything to add but amusement at how directly and strongly i disagree with every word rock said here

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davidponte
05/21/20 5:29:03 AM
#91:


Yup

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turbopuns3
05/21/20 11:30:14 AM
#92:


Well the battle system is great
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SavageInTheBox
05/21/20 11:34:26 AM
#93:


As I was walking into the Sector 7 Slums the first time and still on a nostalgia high, I was thinking to myself "I hope they have the Beginner's Hall, and Johnny, and the pinball machine elevator, etc

And by the middle I was like "I wish they didn't have Johnny"

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turbopuns3
05/21/20 11:55:27 AM
#94:


On my first playthrough, I didn't get the Johnny sidequests in Wall Warket. I was not a fan of Johnny at all. On my hard mode playthrough, I did the Johnny sidequests in Wall Market, and I am now more a fan of Johnny.

Johnny's dad was fun.
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turbopuns3
05/21/20 11:56:09 AM
#95:


that said, I was in a fraternity for 5 years so that questline really spoke to me on a bro kind of level
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ctesjbuvf
05/21/20 12:01:16 PM
#96:


I got them on my first playthrough. Did the other ones when getting the next three dresses before getting the final three on hard mode (no sidequest playthrough).

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colliding
05/21/20 12:47:37 PM
#97:


Lucavi000 posted...
what? how is cosmo canyon before junon in your world?

Wouldnt it be junon in the middle then across the sea costa del sol and cosmo canyon?

yeah I took some liberties with the original story
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BK_Sheikah00
05/21/20 2:18:28 PM
#98:


Johnny is another reason Madam M's quests > Chocobo Sam's

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TheRock1525
05/21/20 3:58:28 PM
#99:


This game is probably only second to Lightning Returns for FF battle systems.

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FFDragon
05/21/20 4:23:27 PM
#100:


You have obviously forgotten the peak of Final Fantasy battle systems:

X-2

And I will fight anyone on this.

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DeathChicken
05/21/20 4:33:25 PM
#101:


Nah, the battles in X-2 were incredible. That game would be remembered as one of the very best in the series if it only consisted of the fights.

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