Board 8 > Adventure Time Mafia! Topic 7 - Premonition Dream - someone gets lynched!

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Lopen
02/19/20 2:02:39 PM
#251:


I mean Chris was right that an unconditional assassin is a dumb role to have. I also don't think having a role to protect a player is not okay if that's what the atmosphere is-- you're balancing these games FOR b8 games so if that's how b8 games tend to go then why not. Maybe it's because I sympathize with his plight as there a time long long ago on B8 where I was in the Chris "always killed on N1" role for a while-- so much so that I intentionally played scummy in a game to try and avoid that and was lynched day 1 instead. So I mean, I get it.

I guess the one thing is scum may not know there ISN'T some form of unconditional doctor so as long as they don't have an assassin they kinda both have an assassin kill and don't because while there isn't a doctor they don't know that you know? But I just feel the doctor is a more "core" role necessary for the game to flow well than a cop, which isn't as harmful to unlock later in the game.

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Lopen
02/19/20 2:03:32 PM
#252:


Leanansidhe posted...
He completely dropped an easy mislynch based on new info (me).

Here's a question

Hb why did you drop the lynch on Lea?

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#253
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:13:07 PM
#254:


Lopen posted...
Also for the record I've never argued this. I think Chris has but whatever, Chris is an egomaniac sometimes-- it's fine.

I said scum Ulti would not be motivated enough to bus scum Chris, because if he bags scum Chris there he becomes town "confirmed" to some level and I don't feel he'd want to buckle down for the long game in a game he posted 3 times in, made a contradiction in 2/3 of those posts, and signed up as a replace in.

The only way it makes sense is if they anticipate the Scare gambit, which only makes sense if Scare is ALSO scum. Really if you think Chris is scum I think the second natural scum becomes Scare all things considered, because I only buy that interaction as a three scum super gambit to super clear a player that isn't Ulti. But like, if your scumteam has Chris and Scare in it that's probably too advanced for them to want to bother with (and also requires Ulti to deliberately put a hole in his vote post which again, seems too advanced given my likely effort level from him), so it doesn't really make sense that way either. A two scum gambit to make Scare sit pretty makes more sense, or Scare being town and honestly catching scum (in which case I, again, like Hb as scum who joined the train as he's the jump that made the least sense).

Anyway I think you're stretching too hard to lynch Chris here to the point where you're not understanding the interactions between me and him very well nor are you understanding my arguments-- probably because he's been pissing you off this game which is fair. You can better prove him wrong by just calming down and analyzing the situation rather than going super bloodlust here. Be sure Chris is scum before you lynch him. I think setup meta + day 2 end of day not really making sense with scum Chris SHOULD be enough to sell you on its own.

Chris, me, ulti would function just fine as a team and we would have no need to get that fancy at all. Chris and I have hydra'd as scum and took an impossible situation and went the distance and was only stopped at the last minute because we showed some mercy and played by our own set rules when our opponent went beyond impressively beyond them to do a huge 180 in final 3.

Like there are a lot of things I can break down in these things that just dont make sense. Even just ulti and I would function and I have no reason to skewer him to keep a town chris alive in that scenario, we gain way too much equity there. Also scum inactive ulti who is "confirmed" and on a "confirmed" igcd claim? Absolutely could cost on 3 posts a day.

I get you trying to solve, Lopen, but all angles in that situation are just dead ends

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Lopen
02/19/20 2:15:09 PM
#255:


Fastbreak posted...
Chris, me, ulti would function just fine as a team and we would have no need to get that fancy at all.


Fastbreak posted... (in a Lopen quote)
But like, if your scumteam has Chris and Scare in it that's probably too advanced for them to want to bother with (and also requires Ulti to deliberately put a hole in his vote post which again, seems too advanced given my likely effort level from him)



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#256
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:19:35 PM
#257:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Instead of trying to be right or wrong, I am just going to give you my thoughts on all three as I have weighed them in my mind.

So first is his IGCD read. The first thing I think of is the person who was right there with Ben defending IGCD at the last second was Sbell. So in the vacuum of just the IGCD read it is possible Ben is scum defending him, but it has also proven true through Sbell that a town in misguided faith in IGCD can make that mistake. So it's not clearing of Ben nor is it damning.

Now I back away a step and look at where Ben's vote is. Sultan, another flipped scum. So I ask myself "Well, if Ben was willing to bus Sultan in order to keep up the act of protecting me and sheeping me, what benefit does it give him to all of a sudden not save me at end of day?"

Looking at Ulti he was:

* Low Energy
* Vanilla

So what would make a scum Ben hesitate to vote this train but not Sultan's? For Ben to be scum he has come up with this complicated plan involving me but low energy vanilla Ulti is someone he doesn't want to bus in only to establish credibility? It doesn't make sense to me. There could be an answer I am missing, but I can't find it myself.

Next up, the fact that he is protection but alive. For all intents Ben's role as protection is over if Scum just accepts me being alive. If they can contend with me being alive, it frees their night kill choice selection up a lot and it is no secret the longer I am alive the more people start twitching. Ben isn't a doctor who can protect the tracker, for instance.

Actually why didn't 5tar protect the tracker. What the hell am I missing something? <_<.

Anyway so for the point about him being protection it is easy for me to see a scum team that just ignores Ben (who hasn't been great this game himself and may be mislynched if kept around) and focus more on people unlikely to be lynched.

As for setup meta... boy setup meta is hard here. Not sure I can make heads or tails given the nature of the game.


The easy answer is that there is more equity in a "confirmed town" scum partner ulti than sultan who can still fuck it up


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Lopen
02/19/20 2:19:44 PM
#258:


I'm always entirely reasonable it's the rest of the players that usually aren't :(

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DoomTheGyarados
02/19/20 2:19:47 PM
#259:


Leanansidhe posted...
I'm getting a bit of LopenFear. He might just be running a flawless scum game by being entirely reasonable

Same tbh. It is why I am changing my tone. If Lopen is scum as we are, we are screwed. Got to take steps back and find the right people.

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htaeD
02/19/20 2:20:04 PM
#260:


I mean I forget why I should not suspect Lopen myself.
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htaeD
02/19/20 2:20:35 PM
#261:


Also I guess I missed a claim then, or else I am forgetting who had already claimed and who hadnt.
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Lopen
02/19/20 2:21:15 PM
#262:


I haven't claimed

And now I really don't want to with all this "LopenFear" talk going around let's put it off

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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:23:28 PM
#263:


Ben is 1000% lieing

Its just is he lieing town or scum

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#264
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:26:02 PM
#265:


I admit I'm a bit disappointed I didn't wake up to chris attacking me


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DoomTheGyarados
02/19/20 2:26:07 PM
#266:


My only memory of a scum ben is trying to murder me. Does anyone have recollection of scum ben sheeping me?

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#267
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:36:27 PM
#268:


Lopen following me on ulti was a strong look for him

Scum lopen there would need to mean he was pulling off scum chris and sacrificing the less active member going forward

So you have another situation of a potential team of chris/lopen/ulti and why would they need to do these things as a unit


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DoomTheGyarados
02/19/20 2:37:39 PM
#269:


After scum chris gets town lea to claim scum why would scum chris then bus his buddy?

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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:38:55 PM
#270:


Hmm well

I'm not fully confident on that one. It does still work as just scum with ulti and lopen when lopen values his equity much more than taking out town!chris and that is probably true.

He sees that ulti just got blown up pretty hard and has to weigh taking out a strong !town or busing what he expects to be dead weight

...hmm

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#271
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Hbthebattle
02/19/20 2:41:28 PM
#272:


Fastbreak posted...
Lopen following me on ulti was a strong look for him

Was it though
I've looked back- Lopen actually wasn't on Chris, so Chris-Lea is 4-4 before, and assuming Ben isn't scum, he probably saves Chris, and even if he isnt he probably does so anyway because he said he trusted Chris enough to permasave him
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Lopen
02/19/20 2:42:50 PM
#273:


Too reasonable is a scumtell what is wrong with the world. Why you do this Lea? I thought we were cool. All my work to poc-- defend you for naught

Listen I think the only reason I'm seeming maybe too reasonable is because it's work to try and go super hard on hb and because I have doubts as to whether hb or scare look worse right now so I'm kinda letting it pan out because I think both of them being scum simply doesn't work given how day 2 went.

I think if I went harder on hb I could probably generate the right amount of being unreasonable to satisfy you but I don't really want to dig for it. There's more immediate feedback and reward just posting now than doing ISO stuff.

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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:42:50 PM
#274:


So red is still living in my head, I wont lie

Last game as scum when I was screwing with him and he assumed me town he kept saying how he was going to go at me after for fucking up, which as scum I didn't care. As town this time, I care

And we played enough to know when one says I cant stay in game state you put a gun in their mouth and pick up the pieces.

I still feel like chris needs to be off the table here too

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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:44:26 PM
#275:


.... I want to say battle just doesnt like ulti so has no reservations busing but I could be completely fabricating that

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#276
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 2:44:51 PM
#277:


With or without that battle had the worst looking ulti vote in real time as well imo

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Hbthebattle
02/19/20 2:45:08 PM
#278:


Lopen posted...


Here's a question

Hb why did you drop the lynch on Lea?

Before she switched, Chris was screwed. Therefore, it only makes sense for her to be scum if Chris is her partner. I find that unlikely, given how he nearly got her lynched multiple times. Plus, she's been acting far more towny in her play from Day 3 on IMO.
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DoomTheGyarados
02/19/20 2:45:17 PM
#279:


It is day 2. I, as scum, have finally made town Lea snap and just do a bad. She returns and 5tar is having none of it, votes her. Red demands her head. Two very strong town voices now agreeing with me, playing to the tune of scum chris. Just as planned. I decide to... unvote Lea, agree with Lopen for the moment it seems too obvious, and vote my scum buddy.

Scare, if you are town... you've seen my scum work up close. You see how when I break town that I ensure they stay broken.

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Hbthebattle
02/19/20 2:46:22 PM
#280:


Fastbreak posted...
.... I want to say battle just doesnt like ulti so has no reservations busing but I could be completely fabricating that

I don't have a particular distaste for Ulti. I don't know where you got that.
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#281
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Lopen
02/19/20 2:47:52 PM
#282:


Hbthebattle posted...
Plus, she's been acting far more towny in her play from Day 3 on IMO.

Do you have any examples that come to mind? I don't need exact posts, just generalized things she did then.

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Hbthebattle
02/19/20 2:54:22 PM
#283:


Lopen posted...


Do you have any examples that come to mind? I don't need exact posts, just generalized things she did then.

It just feels like she was actually focusing on the game and not just making jokes, even when her head wasn't directly on the block like it was during Day 2.
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htaeD
02/19/20 2:54:47 PM
#284:


Leanansidhe posted...
But the only one who didn't vote scum D2 now was like, Death


I didnt even vote anyone because of timezones.
If I had waited 1 more second, I would have revoted you tho
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 3:01:09 PM
#285:


Hbthebattle posted...
I don't have a particular distaste for Ulti. I don't know where you got that.
My bad then

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#286
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Lopen
02/19/20 3:04:58 PM
#287:


I guess you're right.

I, truth be told, never read the end of topic 6 as I was gone most of the weekend because I didn't really give a crap about mafia then, but it seems like Lea did step it up a bit towards the end there after glancing through it a bit. Enough that even if your standards for "quality content" are higher than mine I could see having a change of heart based on it.

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Lopen
02/19/20 3:32:47 PM
#288:


Fastbreak posted...
Ben is 1000% lieing

Its just is he lieing town or scum

In what scenario do you think a lying town Ben exists?

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#289
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 3:35:22 PM
#290:


Lopen posted...
In what scenario do you think a lying town Ben exists?

Ben lies all the time as town

Theres usually a shred of truth in there. So I think if he is town he is ice king or whatever flavor he gave. But theres no way he is perma doctor

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Fastbreak
02/19/20 3:35:44 PM
#291:


Lopen are you aware of why ben and me being masons is a meme?

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htaeD
02/19/20 3:36:43 PM
#292:


Okay I may be a bit late here, but would scumScare throw away his decent looks by lazily attacking Chris like at the start of the day?
I say no myself, but I am as always open to others.
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Lopen
02/19/20 3:37:39 PM
#293:


I know Ben lies as town all the time that's why I didn't go harder on him being scum when I initially doubted the claim made sense

I'm asking you what do you think his motives are as town vs scum here. It can't be as simple as "he's wacky!" Usually he has a reason to do it even if it's a bad one.

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#294
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Fastbreak
02/19/20 3:43:53 PM
#295:


Lopen posted...
I know Ben lies as town all the time that's why I didn't go harder on him being scum when I initially doubted the claim made sense

I'm asking you what do you think his motives are as town vs scum here. It can't be as simple as "he's wacky!" Usually he has a reason to do it even if it's a bad one.

Part of it depends on his partner if scum

Its either Chris or someone who is doing chris style kills and he set himself up to live on a fake claim and put no effort. Which kind of makes nonsense that protection would last this long especially what he claimed and who he used it on.

Ben has had less time lately so he made a claim that would allow him to take himself off the table that day he was under pressure and its worked

Alternatively, same vein of not having time but if he is say town vanilla, he claims a super doctor save on chris to draw the night kill and... is somehow never killed ever and he is confused why he is still alive so he has done nothing.

Like I can make up lots of reasons either way. Him lieing doesnt contribute to his alignment here, I can find justification and ben would find a good way to make it make sense either way on his own

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htaeD
02/19/20 3:55:24 PM
#296:


You know I wanted to say HB was being too quiet while Chris argued with Scare, but then he swore at Chris directly out of nowhere.

Still think that he is too easygoing today tho.
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#297
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htaeD
02/19/20 3:57:49 PM
#298:


On the other hand, Scare doesnt sound serious at all
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htaeD
02/19/20 3:58:52 PM
#299:


I wish I knew who I was angling

Chris makes a lot of good arguments in his favor.
I still dont trust Ben regardless. I like you more, I am wary of Lopen and HB is lackluster.
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Lopen
02/19/20 4:04:41 PM
#300:


Death do you think Ben's claim is possibly legit?

I think only me and Chris actually believe it's possibly a role and everyone else is like "1000% DENIED"

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