Current Events > Impeachment gave Trump exactly what he wanted a damaged Biden campaign.

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 1:27:28 PM
#51:


Sackgurl posted...
documents from the deputy prosecutor general state no such plans were made

the former and current prosecutor general have stated that no criminal investigation of hunter was ever called for, that he has committed no crimes in ukraine, that there is no evidence that he did so, and that all 15 of the (dormant under shokin) investigations were about actions taken by Zlochevsky that preceded hunter's tenure

You dont need official documents to plan something. You dont need any documents. Is this the BIG lie? LOL

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Bandit_Keith
02/12/20 1:33:35 PM
#52:


karlpilkington4 posted...
You dont need official documents to plan something. You dont need any documents. Is this the BIG lie? LOL
Did he have any documentation at all? Anyone to corroborate the story?

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Sackgurl
02/12/20 1:34:05 PM
#53:


karlpilkington4 posted...
Its not, thats the funny part

you are lying

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL

it's an opinion piece that presents shokin's claims only and makes no attempt to fact-check them. that is the nature of opinion pieces: deliberate slant in order to persuade the reader to a specific viewpoint.

Shokin was investing Burisma while Hunter Biden was working there

he was specifically not acting on the investigations.

the investigations themselves were about actions taken by burisma prior to hunter's tenure. you repeatedly mix these ideas to present the idea he was actively investigating hunter. he was not investigating hunter, and in his comments to the author he lied about this, as evidenced by the comments from the current and former legitimate authorities in the ukraine.

He was then fired, with heavy influence from Joe Biden.

his firing was hailed both within ukraine and throughout the international community; it just so happened that a threat to withhold aid was what it took to motivate the president of ukraine, poroshenko, at the time.

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Odoylerules
02/12/20 1:35:04 PM
#54:


Biden isnt who he needs to fear, its Bernie.
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Sackgurl
02/12/20 1:36:56 PM
#55:


karlpilkington4 posted...
You dont need official documents to plan something. You dont need any documents. Is this the BIG lie? LOL

the official documents released by his deputy show the case was entirely dormant. you absolutely need documents to plan an investigation of a billion dollar company.

documents existed for the investigation: they showed there was no activity for the entire duration of his tenure as prosecutor general.

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ultimate reaver
02/12/20 1:39:04 PM
#56:


the atlantic and mother jones are constantly vying for worst publication in america

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 1:53:24 PM
#57:


Sackgurl posted...
the official documents released by his deputy show the case was entirely dormant. you absolutely need documents to plan an investigation of a billion dollar company.

documents existed for the investigation: they showed there was no activity for the entire duration of his tenure as prosecutor general.

Detectives dont create reports when they are going to bring someone into questioning. They do it AFTER. You literally have no idea how investigations work. A paper trail happens while something is happening, not before.


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Bandit_Keith
02/12/20 1:58:09 PM
#58:


karlpilkington4 posted...
Detectives dont create reports when they are going to bring someone into questioning. They do it AFTER. You literally have no idea how investigations work. A paper trail happens while something is happening, not before.
But a prosecutor absolutely does do this before investigation. You have an outline of what your case is and who you are going after in that investigation. That's how it works when you open a case against someone. Especially when it's a massive organization.

And you ignored my question. Who did he tell he was going to investigate Hunter Biden? Is there anything at all corroborating his story?

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Sackgurl
02/12/20 1:59:56 PM
#59:


karlpilkington4 posted...
Detectives dont create reports when they are going to bring someone into questioning.

this is an extremely obvious lie

legal investigations establish paper trails before any actions are taken in order to prevent the entire case from being lost due to failure to adhere to a legal standard. evidence acquired by violating laws is inadmissible in court.

also this isn't a detective asking a witness questions, it's the prosecutor-general of a country building a case against one or more individuals in a billion dollar company. the paperwork standards are so much higher.

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 2:06:06 PM
#60:


Bandit_Keith posted...
But a prosecutor absolutely does do this before investigation. You have an outline of what your case is and who you are going after in that investigation. That's how it works when you open a case against someone. Especially when it's a massive organization.

And you ignored my question. Who did he tell he was going to investigate Hunter Biden? Is there anything at all corroborating his story?

There was an investigation dude. There was paperwork. We are talking about his statement of "interrogating" employees, which doesn't not require any sort of paperwork until it happens. Shokin had an entire team. I'm assuming he told them or any number of other people. Again you dont need to type of a document to plan and say, "lets interrogate these people in the future".

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Eat More Beef
02/12/20 2:12:29 PM
#61:


karlpilkington4 posted...
His Son literally benefited from that removal. Investigating Biden for corruption is of the interest of the UNITED STATES, not just Trump.

You always ignore that part.


How about Trump benefiting from the removal of comey, that he ordered? Should he not be held to the same Biden standard you push for?

Funny how you always ignore that part.

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UnholyMudcrab
02/12/20 2:13:47 PM
#62:


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Tyranthraxus
02/12/20 2:15:23 PM
#63:


karlpilkington4 posted...
Joe Biden admits to quid pro quo with ukraine ON CAMERA -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY&list=LLkhEKQbfC99erYyK4evhOGg&index=5&t=16s

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c-span-video-joe-biden-ukraine/


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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 2:21:08 PM
#64:


Eat More Beef posted...
Funny how you always ignore that part.

It's easy to "ignore" something that isnt even related to this.

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ultimate reaver
02/12/20 2:21:18 PM
#65:


right wingers are so far behind the shitpost curve on ce. losing admiral really fucked them up

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Bandit_Keith
02/12/20 2:21:56 PM
#66:


karlpilkington4 posted...
There was an investigation dude. There was paperwork. We are talking about his statement of "interrogating" employees, which doesn't not require any sort of paperwork until it happens. Shokin had an entire team. I'm assuming he told them or any number of other people. Again you dont need to type of a document to plan and say, "lets interrogate these people in the future".
We are talking about targeting key players, and yes, there would be paperwork outlining your targets and how you plan to go after them. This is how these large investigations work. I'm asking you if you can provide literally any corroborative proof that Hunter was a target of an investigation. Because if there was any proof corroborative at all it would shut everyone else up, right? Any credible document or colleague that came forward and backed up Shokin's claim that Biden was a target of an investigation?

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Odoylerules
02/12/20 2:22:38 PM
#67:


I really dont know why you both arguing with Karl, hes very disingenuous
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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 2:22:41 PM
#68:


ultimate reaver posted...
right wingers are so far behind the shitpost curve on ce. losing admiral really fucked them up

Yes, because your posts are LOADED with entertainment and intellectual content...

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 2:25:20 PM
#69:


Bandit_Keith posted...
Any credible document or colleague that came forward and backed up Shokin's claim that Biden was a target of an investigation?

BURISMA was the target, the employees were going to be questioned. Biden was one of these employees at this time. Burisma was being investigated before Biden was even there. You dont need to start an official investigation twice. There is no need for paperwork for simple questioning IN THE FUTURE.

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Eat More Beef
02/12/20 2:36:51 PM
#70:


karlpilkington4 posted...
It's easy to "ignore" something that isnt even related to this.

Nah fam. You're holding one person to a higher stander than another.

You want Biden to be investigated for corruption because he did the same thing as Trump. Either want both, or none of then to be investigated.

I feel sorry for you that this is how your life has turned out, shilling for a shitty president on gamefaqs.

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#71
Post #71 was unavailable or deleted.
Bandit_Keith
02/12/20 2:44:35 PM
#72:


karlpilkington4 posted...
BURISMA was the target, the employees were going to be questioned. Biden was one of these employees at this time. Burisma was being investigated before Biden was even there. You dont need to start an official investigation twice. There is no need for paperwork for simple questioning IN THE FUTURE.
Yes, investigated before they hired Biden. 2010 to 2012. And the documentation that does exist says that the investigation was for the period before he was hired as well. So between 2014 and 2016, people that worked with Shokin before he was removed, and continued to work there after he was removed said that there was no movement on this case. How does this effect Biden at all if the investigation was for a time period before he was hired, and literally no one beside Shokin speaking now had any idea Shokin was going to question people that were not in the company at the time. Surely someone would step up and say that "Hunter Biden was on the list of people we were going to question." Or "Shokin expressed to me Hunter Biden was to be questioned."

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Evening_Dragon
02/12/20 2:46:15 PM
#73:


karlpilkington4 posted...
You wrote all of that and didnt actually EXPLICITLY say what Shokin lied about. All you're doing is hiding your lack of argument in a wall of text that's not relevant to the ONE thing, I'm referring to.

You can certainly prove me wrong. State the EXACT lies that Shokin made. ACTUAL QUOTES.

textbook sealion.

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Cookie Bag
02/12/20 2:47:36 PM
#74:


Eat More Beef posted...
I feel sorry for you that this is how your life has turned out, shilling for a shitty president on gamefaqs.
Him, just like every other shitty trump troll this board has, just do it for the shits and giggles, they probably don't care who the fuck is the president as long as they get to stir shit here.

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 2:49:11 PM
#75:


Evening_Dragon posted...
textbook sealion.

textbook "I have nothing of actual substance to contribute, so i'm gonna use this ad hominem and pretend no one notices"

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 2:51:03 PM
#76:


Eat More Beef posted...
Nah fam. You're holding one person to a higher stander than another.

You want Biden to be investigated for corruption because he did the same thing as Trump. Either want both, or none of then to be investigated.

I feel sorry for you that this is how your life has turned out, shilling for a shitty president on gamefaqs.

This is literally full of irony and you dont even see it

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Rexdragon125
02/12/20 2:52:57 PM
#77:


Cookie Bag posted...
Him, just like every other shitty trump troll this board has, just do it for the shits and giggles, they probably don't care who the fuck is the president as long as they get to stir shit here.
Some trumpists are actually like that

https://i.redd.it/704qkd3d1sf41.jpg
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Evening_Dragon
02/12/20 2:59:45 PM
#78:


karlpilkington4 posted...
textbook "I have nothing of actual substance to contribute, so i'm gonna use this ad hominem and pretend no one notices"

You've already been given all the proof, though. There's nothing left beyond you pretending you have a case.

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 3:05:25 PM
#79:


Evening_Dragon posted...
You've already been given all the proof, though. There's nothing left beyond you pretending you have a case.

The funny/sad part is, you actually believe this.

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Evening_Dragon
02/12/20 3:07:13 PM
#80:


karlpilkington4 posted...
The funny/sad part is, you actually believe this.

By all means, ignore my empty posturing and get back to Keith. I can't wait to see your responses.

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 3:14:19 PM
#81:


This is a perfection explanation to what I'm talking about -

As more information trickles into the mainstream press regarding Burisma, the natural gas company Hunter Biden worked for, the latest refrain has become the Ukrainian prosecutor Vice President Joe Biden wanted fired was not investigating Bidens son when he was investigating Burisma.

But this misses the very point of the allegations being lodged at Joe and Hunter Biden. Just because Hunter wasnt at Burisma at the time of the alleged corruption does not mean that Hunter could not have played a role in shielding the company from later allegations. He was receiving over $50,000 per month to sit on Burismas board, despite zero experience in the industry.

Last week, the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) revealed that Mykola Zlochevsky, the Ukrainian gas tycoon at the center of the Hunter Biden debacle, was being investigated only for activity spanning from 2010 to 2012, when he was the minister of ecology. Zlochevsky founded Burisma in 2002 and later went on to work in the Ukrainian government. It is alleged that when he was minister of ecology, special permits were issued for the use of mineral resources to enterprises founded by Burisma Limited.
Several journalists have seized on this timeline as exculpatory of any wrongdoing from the Bidens, given Hunter did not join the board of Burisma until mid-2014. For instance, Jonathan Landay of Reuters tweeted out proudly, Changes to the board of Burisma Limited, which are currently the object of international attention, took place only in May 2014, and therefore are not and NEVER were the subject of (the anti-corruption bureaus) investigation, the bureaus statement said. (My capitalization).

But what these journalists seem to be missing is that the basis for accusations of corruption was not merely that Joe Biden got the prosecutor fired to shield his sons behavior at Burisma from prosecution. Indeed, the timeline presented by NABU makes that allegation impossible to square away. But the allegation that has been routinely hinted at is the possibility that Zlochevsky hired Hunter Biden after the allegations surfaced in order to evade charges in the hopes that Hunter might use his influence to persuade his dad to push for the firing of the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin.
Still, theres another possibility, one that doesnt involve persuasion from Hunter but more a tacit understanding with Joe Biden. Hunter Biden was collecting upwards of $50,000 per month for his role at Burisma with zero prior experience in the energy sector. Its not out of the realm to wonder whether (1) Joe Biden knew the details of his sons latest gig and salary and (2) whether Joe regarded the last name Biden as an important part of his son securing that role.
As The New York Times reported, Hunters presence on the board was seen in the Ukraine as a way to cement the companys Western pivot: Their [Hunter Biden and others] support allowed Burisma to create the perception that it was backed by powerful Americans at a time when Ukraine was especially dependent on aid and strategic backing from the United States and its allies, according to people who worked in Ukraine at the time.
Thus, as journalists begin parroting the timeline as proof that Joe Bidens role in pressuring Ukrain to fire Shokin was entirely divorced from Hunters role at Burisma, consider the possibility that Hunters role could have been more about shielding Burisma as a whole from allegations.

While journalists feign consternation and disgust at the fact that President Trump would dare to express an interest in investigating these matters, remember that there are questions that deserve to be answered here. Indeed, the timeline isnt exculpatory. And celebrating it as such is just more evidence of the media moving goalposts.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/29/timeline-of-the-burisma-investigation-doesnt-exculpate-hunter-biden-it-just-leads-to-more-questions/

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King_Hutton
02/12/20 3:24:12 PM
#82:


<img src="//:0"><img src="//:0">

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Evening_Dragon
02/12/20 3:33:50 PM
#83:


karlpilkington4 posted...
This is a perfection explanation to what I'm talking about -

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/29/timeline-of-the-burisma-investigation-doesnt-exculpate-hunter-biden-it-just-leads-to-more-questions/

That is entirely conjecture, from the Federalist of all things, but that's besides the point; what does this say about Shokin claiming Hunter Biden was a target?

Because, in your quote:
Shokin told me in written answers to questions that, before he was fired as general prosecutor, he had made specific plans for the investigation that included interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden.

Hunter Biden is specified, but as has been established, investigation on him would've been impossible in the timeframe of Shokin's involvement.

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Sackgurl
02/12/20 3:34:13 PM
#84:


karlpilkington4 posted...
But the allegation that has been routinely hinted at is the possibility that Zlochevsky hired Hunter Biden after the allegations surfaced in order to evade charges in the hopes that Hunter might use his influence to persuade his dad to push for the firing of the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin.

The reason that allegation has only been "hinted at" by right wing blogs and not stated by anyone with credibility is it is an obvious lie that is incredibly easily refuted.

Shokin did not initiate the charges against Burisma, those investigations started two prosecutor-generals before him, with Viktor Pshonka.

Hunter was hired in 2014. During this time, the case against Burisma was expanded under Shokin's direct predecessor, Vitaly Yarema. The cases were not concluded, and passed to Shokin.

Shokin became prosecutor-general in 2015, and inherited the Burisma cases. Documents from his deputy show that the case was completely dormant throughout his tenure. The US wanted Burisma (and Zlochevskiy in particular) investigated as it was involved in a money laundering scheme that cost the US and UK tens of millions of dollars. A broad international call for his removal ensued because he was not acting against Burisma. This culminated in Biden's threats to withhold aid and the firing.

In short: if Burisma hired Hunter to protect them from the cases against them, he clearly was even less qualified for the job than conservatives already have been chanting. The opposite occurred--US leadership continued to push for leadership that would prosecute Burisma. Now, the newest prosecutor general is re-opening all 15 cases against the company. None of which involve Hunter.

Every part of the allegations against Biden are complete nonsense. These lies are invented and repeated with the hope that people will not look at the detailed information, and additional lies are added when the initial narrative begins to crumble under investigation, requiring a continued inquisition of all claims made as so many of them are utter lies.

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

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#85
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King_Hutton
02/12/20 3:44:54 PM
#86:


Apparently Karl will block you if you post a picture of a sea lion, in case anyone wants him to go away

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Tmaster148
02/12/20 3:46:06 PM
#87:


lol thefederalist

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 3:50:46 PM
#88:


Spooking posted...
Biden thought he could go one on one with Trump. He found out he couldn't. Lol!

Whoever makes the it past the primary is gonna find that out too!

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VandalCrown
02/12/20 3:54:24 PM
#89:


Biden's plummeting ratings have everything to do with his unpresidential conduct while campaigning and nothing at all to do with his implication in Trump's impeachment.

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Tmaster148
02/12/20 3:57:29 PM
#90:


King_Hutton posted...
Apparently Karl will block you if you post a picture of a sea lion, in case anyone wants him to go away

You know what's funny. He blocked me for the "lol thefederalist", but he also blocked me yesterday for a different comment and later unblocked me. I wonder what he'll block me for the third time.

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Cookie Bag
02/12/20 3:58:58 PM
#91:


Tmaster148 posted...
You know what's funny. He blocked me for the "lol thefederalist", but he also blocked me yesterday for a different comment and later unblocked me. I wonder what he'll block me for the third time.
Imagine being so thin skinned that you block people but are still a ***** about it and unblock them just to read what they said about you lmao

that karl guy has to be trolling, doubt a person that is actually like that functions irl

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Seanirl
02/12/20 4:01:22 PM
#92:


TBH, I do actually kind of unironically like his dismissive attitude to some people when he tells them to vote for someone else.

It's like "I'm Joe Biden, if you don't like what you see, go fuck yourself." :3

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Eat More Beef
02/12/20 4:06:40 PM
#93:


karlpilkington4 posted...
This is literally full of irony and you dont even see it

Except I think them investigating the Bidens for corruption is fine. I want all corrupt politicians to get a columbian neck tie if it's deserved.

You just want one side to have it.

Once again, I feel sorry for you, dude. Please try to be a better person from this point forward.

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karlpilkington4
02/12/20 4:18:07 PM
#94:


Eat More Beef posted...


You just want one side to have it.

No, that's your ignorant interpretation, which isn't based on anything other than the false dichotomy that you created from the beginning.

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DirkDiggles
02/12/20 11:43:35 PM
#95:


CE vs Karl: The Topic

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