Poll of the Day > i'm thinking of buying a gun, any suggestions would be great, ok?

(+) Yeah! (+)

CTLM posted...

I live in a 3000 sq ft. house. including the basement. It is a two story home, built in 1892. There is an attached garage, built in 1987. The well is under the house. The house sits on 0.9 acres of land, with close proximity to two cities and one town, with easy access to a major highway at three locations. The house uses gas for cooking, as well as electric. We have a coal stove, wood stove, and an electric furnace .

There are several neighbors by the house. Roughly 15 would be a good estimate.

There was a buit-in safe in the wall in the den on the first floor, but that was removed by the previous owner. All valuables are kept hidden elsewhere in the house.

In the event of an intruder where lethal force would be needed (and NY is a duty to retreat state so I can't just go blasting), my wife and kids would hide in our bedroom. If the individual comes up the stairs, I don't have to leave my bedroom to have a clean shot from the head to the chest.

I have multiple vantage points and options to pick from if needed, even go so far as to lie prone under my bed in the foot of space.

If things were perfect, I'd use the basement. But anyone who breaks in would be near that entrance

A quality 5.56 carbine is probably your best choice. With the proper load a 5.56 well cause less overpenetration than any adequate handgun or shotgun load. If all bedrooms are upstairs, holding the top of the stairs until your wife can get the kids into the bedroom is probably you best bet plan.
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If you aren't being facetious, then I'd recommend the Ranger Silah PM. It's fun for hunting fowl

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captpackrat posted...

I'd say stick with a large caliber revolver. .44 Magnum or .45 Colt. Revolvers are practically indestructible compared to automatics, and when fired single-action (i.e., you cock the hammer first) are much more accurate. And in a home defense situation with a large caliber round you should never need more than 5 or 6 shots if you're even a halfway decent marksman. A handgun is also easier to aim and maneuver indoors than a long gun.

The Taurus Judge has the ability to fire .45 Colt rounds or .410 shot shells. A 3" .410 shell can hold five 00 buck pellets, each of which is about the size of a 9mm bullet. Or you could use bird shot if you want something a bit less lethal. (Or a combination, load the first two chambers with bird shot, the rest with bullets or buck.)



If you really have your heart set on a shotgun, I'd recommend a 12 gauge double-barrelled break-action coach gun. They're super fast to load so you can leave it unloaded all the time. You just break it open, stuff a couple shells in, and closing the breach cocks the hammers. Make sure you get a model with an autoejector, it'll kick the spent shells out when you break it open. A coach gun has the shortest barrel that's legal to own so it's easier to use indoors than a hunting shotgun. Accuracy is for crap, but it's made for short range so that doesn't matter. Just don't pull both triggers at once.

Lots of bad info here. The lockwork of a revolver is more complex and fragile, than a well designed modern auto. Revolvers can and do fail, and seize. If a revolver fails it's usually out of commission without tools. If an auto fails, the malfunction can usually be cleared in seconds. Something like a glock, cz, m&p, sig etc, is generally going to be able to fire more consecutive rounds than a revolver before needing Maintenance.

Easier to maneuver yes, easier to aim, no. Aimed fire is always easier with a shoulderable weapon.

Any 410 shot loads, bird or buck, ballisticly perform like trash compared to real defensive shotgun, handgun, or rifle loads. Mixed loads are clown shoes.

The only worse shotgun configuration for home defense work than a double barrel is a single barrel.

A tube or mag fed shotgun is going to load faster, can keep a round ready to fire while topping off, has a better capacity, and can be had as short, or even shorter than a double barrel without jumping through any nfa hoops.
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I mean as far as safety goes a gun is more likely to get you or someone else injured or dead if there's one in your general vicinity than it is to ever defend you. Probably different depending on where you live.

Otherwise I like the magnum revolvers, one of those absolutely stupid guns that could break your wrist. I've always thought those were cool.

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revolvers wouldn't be the better choice if there is more than 1 intruder
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RPG is the only answer, ok?

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AWinterJ posted...

RPG is the only answer, ok?

western or japanese?
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

western or japanese?

I'm not racist, ok?

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I have a BFG. No demons here.

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Zareth posted...

Just get a shotgun.
The loud noise it makes when you pump it will make any home invader shit their pants and run.

Fudd lore.

CTLM posted...

I live in a 3000 sq ft. house. including the basement. It is a two story home, built in 1892. There is an attached garage, built in 1987. The well is under the house. The house sits on 0.9 acres of land, with close proximity to two cities and one town, with easy access to a major highway at three locations. The house uses gas for cooking, as well as electric. We have a coal stove, wood stove, and an electric furnace .

There are several neighbors by the house. Roughly 15 would be a good estimate.

There was a buit-in safe in the wall in the den on the first floor, but that was removed by the previous owner. All valuables are kept hidden elsewhere in the house.

In the event of an intruder where lethal force would be needed (and NY is a duty to retreat state so I can't just go blasting), my wife and kids would hide in our bedroom. If the individual comes up the stairs, I don't have to leave my bedroom to have a clean shot from the head to the chest.

I have multiple vantage points and options to pick from if needed, even go so far as to lie prone under my bed in the foot of space.

If things were perfect, I'd use the basement. But anyone who breaks in would be near that entrance

Well you live in New York so your options are going to be limited. A Mossberg 500 with a 18.5 inch barrel would probably be ideal. If you want to go the pistol route a Glock 19, Ruger SR9C, S&W Shield. If you want a revolver go with a S&W in .357 magnum such as a Model 686. That way you can also shoot .38 Special out of it. The main thing is once you get a gun you need to familiarize yourself with it. Take it out shooting and get use to it.

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Yellow posted...

I mean as far as safety goes a gun is more likely to get you or someone else injured or dead if there's one in your general vicinity than it is to ever defend you. Probably different depending on where you live.

Otherwise I like the magnum revolvers, one of those absolutely stupid guns that could break your wrist. I've always thought those were cool.

and when you have a pool in your back yard you increase your chances of drowning. Dumb people misusing guns isn't a reason to not get a gun.

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Yellow posted...

Otherwise I like the magnum revolvers, one of those absolutely stupid guns that could break your wrist. I've always thought those were cool.

A person should never own a gun they are incapable of handling.

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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Well you live in New York so your options are going to be limited. A Mossberg 500 with a 18.5 inch barrel would probably be ideal. If you want to go the pistol route a Glock 19, Ruger SR9C, S&W Shield. If you want a revolver go with a S&W in .357 magnum such as a Model 686. That way you can also shoot .38 Special out of it. The main thing is once you get a gun you need to familiarize yourself with it. Take it out shooting and get use to it.

I own a Remington 1100 12 gauge. I have used it to hunt the last 6 years. Don't have the extra money to buy a pistol right now. Hell, I don't have the extra money to pay for the class and permit fees

ultra magnus13 posted...

A quality 5.56 carbine is probably your best choice. With the proper load a 5.56 well cause less overpenetration than any adequate handgun or shotgun load. If all bedrooms are upstairs, holding the top of the stairs until your wife can get the kids into the bedroom is probably you best bet plan.

I don't worry about the slug going through because there's only a wall behind next to the stairs with an area that has nothing else to hit.

The way the house is set up, if I stood at the top of the stairs, I'd be an easy target. There's nothing to hide behind or block their line of sight other than a handrail.

Both of the bedrooms for the kids are beyond mine, so my 16 year old would likely be safe staying in his, not so much the 2 year old. She's usually in our bedroom so that is one less thing to worry about.

was going to go into a bunch of more detailed crap, but im too lazy and its not rocket science. so--
stay away from rifle calibers. theyll blow your ear drums out (556) and might hit little timmy 10 houses down (308).

shotguns-
cheap ass=maverick 88
ol faithfuls=mossberg 500/remington 870
need a tank?=590a1
got money?=beretta 1301 or fn slp
really got money?=benelli m4
got some class?=winchester 1897

skys the limit on handguns. go to the range and pick what feels best. notable brands=CZ, FN, Glock, H&K, Sig, Colt, Beretta, Ruger. hard to go wrong with anything by those makers. If youre a real cheap ass Taurus tends to have alright stuff, tho i wouldnt put thousands of rounds through them. also dont underestimate turkish guns, they tend to be higher quality than youd expect for their price.

in general its hard to go wrong with a glock 19. revolvers also make nice set it and forget it weapons tho obviously capacity will be a factor. if you want to go that route then a taurus tends to be solid like an m66. if its something you actually want to shoot regularly then bump it up to a ruger or smith and wesson.

lastly maybe be cautious in how you customize your guns and how they look. some states who arnt as gun friendly may try to pin something on you because your weapon looks scary or you carry some crazy unique type of ammo. if thats the case maybe dont try and get fancy, maybe even fudd it up a little.

Dark_Spiret posted...

lastly maybe be cautious in how you customize your guns and how they look. some states who arnt as gun friendly may try to pin something on you because your weapon looks scary or you carry some crazy unique type of ammo. if thats the case maybe dont try and get fancy, maybe even fudd it up a little.

He lives in New York so he is going to have to fudd it up. A maverick 88 will do fine. Its just a mossberg made near Mexico. If he does have to use it it doesn't look scary, and since he probably wont get his gun back he'll only be out no more than $300 dollars (not counting all the legal fees and bullshit)

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Revolvers are great. You dont have to check to see if they have a round in the chamber after you eject a magazine. If they look unloaded, they are. We have one for home protection thats easy to get to. (No kids in the house so not really any need to lock it up. The dogs cant accidentally set it off where it is either.)

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I'm still not convinced TC is serious because of that "ok?" gimmick he's got going on.

We have an HOA with security. But if ya get one dont spend a ton and get in practice. Ya dont want your first use being a panic.

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Ruger super redhawk Alaskan.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gheEO8vUt5s
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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

But if ya get one dont spend a ton and get in practice. Ya dont want your first use being a panic.

theres a few lines of thought on this. one is that you shouldnt put a price on your life or your familys life so dont concern your self too much with how much money you spend. get something that you know wil work which usually means something more quality which means a higher price tag. the other thought is that this is most likely going to be a gun (unless youre really into firearms) thats going to lay around doing nothing but collect dust and if you do need to use it it will be confiscated in the mean time until things get worked out which can also mean possible damages to it or it getting "lost" on its way back to you. basically if you intend it to be a defensive weapon expect it to be disposable to some degree.

up to the individual to make that choice, but i will say that cheap doesnt mean crap. you can get a lot of good quality police trade in's in the $300 range with minimal use as well as nice surplus guns in the $200 areas that have decades old proven track records (guy i know has carried a makorov for over a decade and still swears by it).

both the revolvers i tried were too small to be comfortable in my hand
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how many people you gonna shoot?

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Just get a .22. Don't let toxic masculinity get in the way, it's the ideal gun. Causes enough damage to stop anyone, but won't kill them.

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Death Commander posted...

Just get a .22. Don't let toxic masculinity get in the way, it's the ideal gun. Causes enough damage to stop anyone, but won't kill them.

Shooting someone without the intention to kill is one of the dumbest things you can do. If they live and try to take you to court it's their story vs your story. If they die it's just yours.

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Death Commander posted...

Just get a .22. Don't let toxic masculinity get in the way, it's the ideal gun. Causes enough damage to stop anyone, but won't kill them.

Actually, it won't stop them and it will make them angry. It will, however, kill them, it just generally takes longer. Like a Civil War minie ball, the dirty little wax-coated bullet carries all kind of debris into the wound, ensuring a serious and often fatal infection.

Buying a gun because you want a gun, plan to learn gun safety and shooting skills, intend to spend time on the firing range burning through ammunition, maybe doing your own reloading, is great. Buying one for magical "self-defense" as seen on TV is about as smart as wearing a tinfoil hat to protect yourself from alien mind control.

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dancer62 posted...

Actually, it won't stop them and it will make them angry. It will, however, kill them, it just generally takes longer.

Getting shot in the head with a .22 usually stops the person. A .22 isn't a stepped up red rider BB gun. Statistically the .22LR has killed more people then any other caliber.
dancer62 posted...

Like a Civil War minie ball, the dirty little wax-coated bullet carries all kind of debris into the wound, ensuring a serious and often fatal infection.

Where do you get this? What made the minie ball so effective was its conical shape, which lead to higher muzzle velocity and greater mass then a standard caliber ball. The shape also gave it superior penetration and accuracy.


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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Getting shot in the head with a .22 usually stops the person. A .22 isn't a stepped up red rider BB gun. Statistically the .22LR has killed more people then any other caliber.

Where do you get this? What made the minie ball so effective was its conical shape, which lead to higher muzzle velocity and greater mass then a standard caliber ball. The shape also gave it superior penetration and accuracy.

You are never taught by professionals to shoot for the head. You aim for center mass as its the easiest target. Clearly you've never had any training.

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mooreandrew58 posted...

You are never taught by professionals to shoot for the head. You aim for center mass as its the easiest target. Clearly you've never had any training.

Perhaps I should've fleshed out my post more. "Getting shot in the head with a .22 usually stops the person. Center mass shots can be very effective as well." I more against the idea that a .22lr is just a scaled up bb gun caliber and that it wont stop someone.

If someone wants to be armed with a .22lr firearm for home defense I would suggest a Ruger 10/22. Extremely light recoil, accurate, cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, and the longer barrel length gives the round a bigger boost allowing for quality expansion on hollow points. Couple this with the ten round magazine it comes with it (not to mention larger aftermarket magazines) could be sufficient for a home defense situation.

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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Center mass shots can be very effective as well.

It can't really though. It killed via infection in the wild west and it embeds at surface level like a shotgun pellet. It also jams up guns.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

It can't really though. It killed via infection in the wild west and it embeds at surface level like a shotgun pellet. It also jams up guns.

I had no idea we are still using black powder in modern cartridges. (we don't)
Also the idea that shotgun pellets have no penetration is foolish. "It also jams up guns." What exactly do you even mean by that?

https://youtu.be/_w4Z5azEPWk?t=15

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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Perhaps I should've fleshed out my post more. "Getting shot in the head with a .22 usually stops the person. Center mass shots can be very effective as well." I more against the idea that a .22lr is just a scaled up bb gun caliber and that it wont stop someone.

If someone wants to be armed with a .22lr firearm for home defense I would suggest a Ruger 10/22. Extremely light recoil, accurate, cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, and the longer barrel length gives the round a bigger boost allowing for quality expansion on hollow points. Couple this with the ten round magazine it comes with it (not to mention larger aftermarket magazines) could be sufficient for a home defense situation.

22lr is not an ideal self defense cartridge, but If all I owned was a 22 rifle I wouldn't feel under equipped defending my house with a 10/22 or Model 60.
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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Perhaps I should've fleshed out my post more. "Getting shot in the head with a .22 usually stops the person. Center mass shots can be very effective as well." I more against the idea that a .22lr is just a scaled up bb gun caliber and that it wont stop someone.

If someone wants to be armed with a .22lr firearm for home defense I would suggest a Ruger 10/22. Extremely light recoil, accurate, cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, and the longer barrel length gives the round a bigger boost allowing for quality expansion on hollow points. Couple this with the ten round magazine it comes with it (not to mention larger aftermarket magazines) could be sufficient for a home defense situation.

I agree .22s are more effective tham what people give them credit for amd in my expierence have good accuracy. But there are people they will just piss off. Hell ive heard stories on criminal documentary shows where someone got shot in the head and it didnt penetrate the skull (dude apparently literally had a thick skull) and seen video footage of people taking a few shots from a police issue gun to put down (still approaching despite being shot) and police usually carry bigger.

Probably more than enough to stop the average person but it aint always gonna be a average person who gives you reason to shoot.

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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Also the idea that shotgun pellets have no penetration is foolish.

They are designed to not penetrate as it causes excess damage. Shotguns aren't designed for man hunts.

Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

"It also jams up guns." What exactly do you even mean by that?

Rimfire isn't made for automatics. The damage done to the shell makes them reasonably regularly catch in the removal mechanism. In the UK you can only have automatics in rimfire and it's a significant complaint here.
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mooreandrew58 posted... seen video footage of people taking a few shots from a police issue gun to put down (still approaching despite being shot) and police usually carry bigger.

Police usually carry 9mm, but a few departments still carry .40. The thing about people and getting shot is the for most part the results vary person to person. A lot of factors occur in a shooting, and there really isn't a single king solution. Take the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. A bunch of FBI agents got shot with two being killed. The aftermath it was found that the suspects didn't have body armor, nor were on any drugs. Their firearms simply failed to perform adequately. The whole event lead to the FBI issuing agents 10mm handguns, then .40 when they found out their agents had problems qualifying with the 10mm, then later on back to the 9mm. The whole unfortunate event was more of an issue personal negligence that unfortunately cost lives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Kyuubi4269 posted...

They are designed to not penetrate as it causes excess damage. Shotguns aren't designed for man hunts.

Shotguns have been used in combat since WW1, and police units still use shotguns. Perhaps you mean over penetrate the target. Your more than welcome to look up ballistic gel results from using 00 buck to see how far it would penetrate.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Rimfire isn't made for automatics. The damage done to the shell makes them reasonably regularly catch in the removal mechanism.

The problem with rimfire is rimfire isn't as reliable as center fire. This is due to the process of how the primer is applied in the casing. The issue your talking about is called stovepipe malfunction. Which can happen in any repeating arm. The cause of this is usually bad magazines, poor ammo, dirty gun, or a bad recoil spring. Also worth noting guns that tend to look like historic firearms but are chambered in .22 tend to have feed and and ejection issues. Be this ether manufacturing issues, or perhaps the design of the firearm wasn't built with a .22 in mind.

If you so want, let me link you to a video where a guy shoots 3000 rounds of .22 out of a collection of semi automatics to test the reliability of .22 ammo, and how they perform in semi automatics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiMNASuw69U&feature=youtu.be&t=16

ultra magnus13 posted... 22lr is not an ideal self defense cartridge, but If all I owned was a 22 rifle I wouldn't feel under equipped defending my house with a 10/22 or Model 60.

Agree, it wouldn't be my first choice. But if all I had was a 10/22 or a model 60 I could make it work and be 'okay' with it.

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Kyuubi4269 posted...

They are designed to not penetrate as it causes excess damage. Shotguns aren't designed for man hunts.

Rimfire isn't made for automatics. The damage done to the shell makes them reasonably regularly catch in the removal mechanism. In the UK you can only have automatics in rimfire and it's a significant complaint here.

Double wrong.

Birdshot has poor penetration qualities, because it's designed for birds, and small game. Buckshot or Slug, what you would be using for home defense will both provide more than sufficient penetration.

22lr runs just fine in a quality semi auto. While rimfire is less reliable than centerfire, that has more to do with the primer ignition, than the ejection of spent casings. How many rounds of rimfire ammo have you ran through a semi auto?
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Death Commander posted...

Just get a .22

What if someone made a shotgun where the shots were all .22s so you can shoot while you shoot cuz of the bullets in your bullets

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Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Shotguns have been used in combat since WW1, and police units still use shotguns. Perhaps you mean over penetrate the target. Your more than welcome to look up ballistic gel results from using 00 buck to see how far it would penetrate.

You're more than welcome to look up what buck and bird shot are made for, but I'll save you the effort.

It, by design, does not penetrate. It is made to hunt the respective game without destroying it so you can pick out the shot when you skin it. It has been used it war, but that is not its purpose, just as you can use a hoe to shank someone.

ultra magnus13 posted...

How many rounds of rimfire ammo have you ran through a semi auto?

Plenty, with jams less than every 10. It's garbage ammo with garbage characteristics.
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ultra magnus13 posted...

Double wrong.

Birdshot has poor penetration qualities, because it's designed for birds, and small game. Buckshot or Slug, what you would be using for home defense will both provide more than sufficient penetration.

Although getting hit with something like #6 Lead shot is still going to put a damper on anyone's day
https://ammo.com/bullet-type/6-lead-shot

Noop_Noop posted...

is that as completely stupid as fuck as it sounds?

Its typical dumb policy made by leftists. Yes, its dumb.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

You're more than welcome to look up what buck and bird shot are made for, but I'll save you the effort.

It, by design, does not penetrate. It is made to hunt the respective game without destroying it so you can pick out the shot when you skin it. It has been used it war, but that is not its purpose, just as you can use a hoe to shank someone.

Plenty, with jams less than every 10. It's garbage ammo with garbage characteristics.

Educate yourself on ballistics if you are going to speak about them. 00 is capable of penetrating 18" in ballistic gel after passing through heavy clothing. That means it would likely be coming out the back side of a human being. It will penetrate 7 to 8 sheets of drywall.

How much is "plenty" because given that your government tells you how much you are allowed to buy and own I find that hard to believe. If you are experiencing a stoppage at a rate of 1 every 10 rounds, you are running trash ammo, a trash gun, or a gun in need of maintenance.
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Lokarin posted...

What if someone made a shotgun where the shots were all .22s so you can shoot while you shoot cuz of the bullets in your bullets

00 buckshot is .330 inches nominal diameter and about 55 grains each (for lead shot).

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ultra magnus13 posted...

Educate yourself on ballistics if you are going to speak about them. 00 is capable of penetrating 18" in ballistic gel after passing through heavy clothing. That means it would likely be coming out the back side of a human being. It will penetrate 7 to 8 sheets of drywall.

By design, it does not. You can cut a piece of drywall in half with a hammer but you'll do a better job of it with a saw. A shotgun is not meant for dealing with people so do not treat it as such, it is not the ideal tool for the job, just as a .22 is not.

ultra magnus13 posted...

How much is "plenty" because given that your government tells you how much you are allowed to buy and own I find that hard to believe.

You tell the government how much you need and they get it formalised on your license. You're not told how much you can have, but you can't get a firearms license for "collecting" and tell them you need 30,000 .308 stored at home.

ultra magnus13 posted...

If you are experiencing a stoppage at a rate of 1 every 10 rounds, you are running trash ammo

Yeah, .22LR
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

By design, it does not. You can cut a piece of drywall in half with a hammer but you'll do a better job of it with a saw. A shotgun is not meant for dealing with people so do not treat it as such, it is not the ideal tool for the job, just as a .22 is not.

You tell the government how much you need and they get it formalised on your license. You're not told how much you can have, but you can't get a firearms license for "collecting" and tell them you need 30,000 .308 stored at home.

Yeah, .22LR

12ga 00 buck at inside the house ranges, is widely considered one of, if not the best man stopper.

You still didn't mention how much shooting experience you have with with 22lr, or what platform you were using.
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@Krazy_Kirby posted...

yes, because they wouldn't want to enter your room at all.... just lock the door and hide under the bed and you will be fine

How high were you when you posted that? There were great reasons for each question he asked.


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Many people will recommend a shotgun, but if you fire one in close quarters in a house when you havent before, the noise and kick back is just as likely to stagger you as whoever you are aiming at.

The right answer is a nice heavy revolver. A semi-auto pistol can jam on you if you dont use it regularly. Revolvers can carry bigger rounds and because of the weight of the gun, youll likely have better aim than you would with a lighter pistol.

I wont give a specific maker recommendation because it all depends on what you are comfortable.

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ultra magnus13 posted...

Educate yourself on ballistics if you are going to speak about them. 00 is capable of penetrating 18" in ballistic gel after passing through heavy clothing. That means it would likely be coming out the back side of a human being. It will penetrate 7 to 8 sheets of drywall.

How much is "plenty" because given that your government tells you how much you are allowed to buy and own I find that hard to believe. If you are experiencing a stoppage at a rate of 1 every 10 rounds, you are running trash ammo, a trash gun, or a gun in need of maintenance.

Yeah 00 buck shot is what we use at the prison. And shotguns are only used for escape attempts where in the case of felons lethal force is authorized. Though to say the aim isnt to kill them but its a big "oh well" thing if they do die.

But point is we wanna be able to hit them from up to 50 yards and one shot stop them

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Shotgun is your best bet. Youre going to make a mess of the place but at least youll feel safe until you do.

A shotgun is for a target that you dont want to miss. The spread in some shot depending on your barrel is pretty tight. I stood about thirty feet back from an old LP album cover that was nailed to a tree and shot straight into the center of it. There wasnt much shot outside the edges of the cover. In your house youre not going to miss.

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there are so many suggestions, i wish i could choose them all, ok?

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ClarkDuke posted...

there are so many suggestions, i wish i could choose them all, ok?

No reason you can't.
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ultra magnus13 posted...

No reason you can't.

depends his state's laws
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