Board 8 > Anagram Aces Ace Attorney Topic 2: Penny Nichols Edition (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I had the mainline games 3 > 6 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 4, but in that inequality, 5 and 6 are very very close, then 1 and 2 are very very close.

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6 > 3 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 4 > Layton > E1

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I do actually think PW:AA is a bit of an overrated game, just slightly. It's hard to say, since it's such a seminal work and the rest of the series is only good BECAUSE of how well PW:AA sets up its cast of characters and the world around them and makes you WANT to play the rest of the series. But that said, I do think some of the other games surpass it in a lot of ways, as far as case length/complexity, pacing, and polish are concerned. It's hard to rank though because every case in AA1 is just so memorable.

3 > 5 > 6 >> DGS > E2 > 1 > E1 >>> LvW >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4

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oh if we include Layton then thats definitely in last place for me. I would skip it.

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I still haven't played the DGS games :(

Leonhart4 posted...

Wow 1 that close to the bottom is a hot take

Gameplay really matters to me and AA1 is that early installment with unpolished gameplay.

Paratroopa1 posted...

I still haven't played the DGS games :(

I've watched an LP of the first game. The LP of the second game died halfway through, unfortunately. I'd probably put the first game around the same level as Layton/PW.

And I enjoy the first game's uniqueness. Some of it might be nostalgia, but there are a lot of magical moments in it that made me a fan to begin with.

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3 > 1 > E2 > 5 > 6 > 2 ~= E1 > LvW >> 4

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Paratroopa1 posted...

I do actually think PW:AA is a bit of an overrated game, just slightly. It's hard to say, since it's such a seminal work and the rest of the series is only good BECAUSE of how well PW:AA sets up its cast of characters and the world around them and makes you WANT to play the rest of the series. But that said, I do think some of the other games surpass it in a lot of ways, as far as case length/complexity, pacing, and polish are concerned. It's hard to rank though because every case in AA1 is just so memorable.

I think I feel the same way.

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AAI1 has a great soundtrack. I am partial to Speak Up Pup!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebLB9VzR7Jk

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- The next day, Edgeworth is like Iris is with the prosecutor being squeezed for a confession five seconds before the trial starts lol also were not having her remove those locks even though someones life is in danger, also Godot has taken over because why not?
- The very idea that theyd continue this case when Maya is supposed to be freed in three hours is insane, but I long ago accepted that there are no rules.
- The regular judge is back and is like My brother, the other judge, is sick or whatever.
- Oh god it took me until just now to realize Phoenix has spiral pupils.
- Iriss testimony crumpled and put in a pocket.
- Id like to avoid the whole spirit-channeling thing if I can. It would be inadmissible as evidence. Phoenix Wright: Forgetter of Case 2-2.
- Wondering if Iris can channel and shes channeling Dahlia right now and thatll be a plot twist. But this is definitely going to be Dahlia.
- Dun dun dun, Godot cant see blood on a white surface.
- Whats The Grid: Revelations a reference to?
- I had to look up presenting the weather data on Iris claiming she dragged the body across the bridge on her own. What a random piece of logic.
- Godot helps Phoenix twice with clues. Wonder why.
- This is a pretty huge leap about how the body got across the gap. I dont want to quibble about realistic physics in a Phoenix Wright game, Im just saying.
- Yep, knew it.
- Death has no meaning in this courtroom! Man, nothing has meaning in these courtrooms. You can have an entire trial where every single person is replaced, including the defendant, and things just continue normally.
- I like how everyone just accepts spirit channeling is a real thing, but the capacity to fly was thought of as insane.
- I suppose youre about to say something ridiculous? Its rarer for someone to say someone not ridiculous.

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Anagram posted...

Whats The Grid: Revelations a reference to?

The Matrix Revolutions


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I like that the Judge's brother shows up three different times and never gets to hand down a verdict.

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hombad46 posted...

The Matrix Revolutions

Oh jesus christ I'm stupid

LeonhartFour posted...

I like that the Judge's brother shows up three different times and never gets to hand down a verdict.

The guy is even less lucky than Winston Payne.

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- I just want to put out there immediately that its Maya channeling Dahlia, Ive been thinking that since we realized its Dahlia and forgot to mention it.
- I like how instead of the normal testimony music as she testifies, we get Dahlias theme, though it goes back to normal when you can actually cross-examine.
- Holy crap, hanged? I just looked it up, and indeed hanging is the only method of execution in Japan.
- I wanted to see what would happen if I failed the case, so I intentionally lost all of my health. The judge just declares Iris guilty anyway. Its not even unique dialogue. Missed opportunity, game, missed opportunity.
- I mean, Im fine with it, obviously, but why does Maya!Dahlia look exactly like Dahlia while Pearl!Mia still has Pearls hair?
- You you spinster! Dahlia throwing out the harshest of insults.
- Fire ghost Dahlia is a bit grander in scope than I was expecting.
- Unless someone else is found guilty, the accused is still on trial. This is a worse justice system than the Klingon justice system where you can demand someone answer in Klingon without the aid of a translator.
- Predicting the real killer is Godot because he was missing until the inner temple was opened up and because everyone else in the profiles list is easy to discount.
- Phoenix is like I have to prove this by myself while looking at Mia.

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Anagram posted...

- Unless someone else is found guilty, the accused is still on trial. This is a worse justice system than the Klingon justice system where you can demand someone answer in Klingon without the aid of a translator.

Is it worse than the Cardassian justice system?
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NFUN posted...

Is it worse than the Cardassian justice system?

Technically not. I was going to say that the Cardassian justice system at least had a correct result one time, but we know that Los Japangeles system has had at least thirteen correct results, so very well.

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How about the Isle Delfino justice system?

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hombad46 posted...

How about the Isle Delfino justice system?

Also confused by a lookalike!

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- Its interesting to have Maya be the last witness of the series, and to see her downtrodden and broken instead of her normal happy self.
- Oh man, spoony bard, vintage 1992 references here. Next well have an OJ Simpson murder trial reference. Phoenixs next opponent will be Conny Jochran, alright.
- I like how the lights are just instantly switched off after Phoenix requests it. Someone was just waiting to turn off all of the lights in the mid-afternoon.
- Maya wants to cover for Godot, but Phoenix wants to pursue the matter too much to stop. The games obviously trying to make me feel bad for pressing her.
- I have difficulty accepting that ingested poison can damage your eyes, but okay.
- Judge: That makes sense. After all, my deductions are almost certainly never correct.
- Huh, my question about why Iris reacted when she saw Phoenix was actually answered.
- I certainly cant say they lack resemblance.
- I cant find Pearl after she disappeared five minutes ago, and I called the village two hours away and they dont know where she is, either.
- So Maya and Mia didnt change their haircuts at all in fifteen years? Yeah, I buy that.
- You know the only major character who doesn't get into Larry's portraits? The judge.

I'll post my thoughts on the series tomorrow. For now, I sleep.

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And that's a wrap.

Gotta love that ending for Godot.

And Iris is SUCH a good character.

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At what point did you realize that Iris was actually a real person

I love how the final revelation of the trilogy is that Phoenix actually had a decent taste in girls.

Dahlia is a great villain to face off with.

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Been waiting the whole time to bust out this account.

3-5's ending is so good.

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Bloody tears so good

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Paratroopa1 posted...

At what point did you realize that Iris was actually a real person

I'd started to suspect the evil twin plot during the first part of the second day's investigation, but I wasn't sure until shortly before it's revealed. Normally I don't like evil twin plots, but I can allow it just this once for a grand finale.

Underleveled posted...

And that's a wrap.

Gotta love that ending for Godot.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Bloody tears so good

I'm going to go into my thoughts on Godot in my whole series write-up, but spoilers: they're positive.

Raka_Putra posted...

Dahlia is a great villain to face off with.

She's one of the most memorable for sure, but I can't tell how much of that is just because she's the last one.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

I love how the final revelation of the trilogy is that Phoenix actually had a decent taste in girls.

IrisWright posted...

Been waiting the whole time to bust out this account.

3-5's ending is so good.

I haven't played the later games, obviously, but I'm 100% sure she doesn't get with Phoenix and probably doesn't evens how up again just because the game wants to imply Phoenix x Maya so much.

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I once hosted an AA mafia game. Dahlia was the serial killer. She won.

The game ended with Edgeworth begging her for mercy, to no avail.

I once played in an AA mafia game. I was Sister Iris, Town Nun.

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AA is perfect as mafia flavor.

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Overall Thoughts for AA3:
- As a grand finale (even if its not), this pulls out all the stops. I said this before, but its obvious they regret killing Mia in such a random and pointless way so early on, then resolving her murder so quickly. Phoenix barely has a backstory, which means the series main plot (for lack of a better term) became about the Fey Clan and its history and Phoenixs relationship with Edgeworth. And now we have an entire game about a guy unable to get over Mias death.
- As a character, Godot is pretty close to perfect. His flaws and final realization at the end of the game that hes done all of this purely for his own pride and hate and regret is more complex than I think I expected from such a wacky game? Admitting to Phoenix that Phoenix is the better man and that all of this is basically his own fault is such a good way to wrap up his story while establishing that Phoenix continues on. His quest to avenge Mia also robs her sister of yet another family member (three for three, one in each game), which is a little thing I like to call poetry. Crying blood is also pretty great on its own. Hes a very strong antagonist, and its made better by his ultimate plan to save Maya (and thus prove to himself that he could have saved Mia and thats why he has the right to hate Phoenix) involving a team-up with someone who cant face Maya as a mother anymore and someone who cant face Phoenix as herself, and all of it being completely unnecessary because he could have just taken the letter and destroyed it, or warned Maya, or any of a thousand logical ways that wouldnt prove anything to himself. And yeah, there was no possible way for this character to end except to admit his own flaws and die of wounds caused by mistakes he couldnt help but make.
- It was also a cunning move to not actually include death row inmate Morgan Fey in the game itself except in flashback form, then make the final cases story all about ghosts mucking about with the world.
- Dahlia is a strong antagonist, even if shes ultimately kind of a tool.
- Playing as Mia and Edgeworth is actually more fun than Phoenix, but that might just be because of the novelty. Still, seeing Mia in action and showing that she was a kickass lawyer in her own right is a good move and sets up everything with Godot, so it makes perfect sense.
- As for the cases themselves
- 3-1 and 3-4 are short but sweet, and get directly to the point.
- 3-2 is kind of pointless, but I understand it was necessary to establish Godot.
- 3-3 is pretty bad, Ill just say it. One of the weaker cases, with a plot that makes almost no sense (even for this series), a ton of characters behaving like idiots, and an offensively bad witness. Worst of all, it squanders a Phoenix Wright doppelganger plot. Don Tigre pretending to be Phoenix is important only in that it causes Phoenix to take the case. If wed just started with Maggey calling Phoenix and saying Ive been accused of murder, please help, nothing significant would change.
- Ive already talked about 3-5. I guess if it has a weakness, its that it doesnt really do much for Edgeworth and Franziska. They just sort of show up and do one thing each. Franziska in particular feels zero percent changed by her experiences and is just shunted to the side after the first day of trial.
- As for rankings
- Prosecutors as Opponents: Edgeworth > von Karma > Godot > Franziska > Payne
- Prosecutors as Characters: Godot > Edgeworth > von Karma > Franziska > Payne
- Killers: Godot > Dahlia Hawthorne > Manfred von Karma > Damon Gant > Redd White > Matt Engarde (Im counting him, live with it) > Dee Vasquez > Morgan Fey > Luke Atmey > Mimi Miney > Don Tigre > Frank Sahwit > Richard Wellington > Acro
- Teenage Girl Sidekicks: Mia > Maya > Ema > Pearl
- Cases: 2-4 > 3-5 > 1-4 > 1-5 > 3-4 > 1-2 = 2-2 = 3-1 > 1-3 > 3-2 > 1-1 > 3-3 > 2-1 > 2-3
- Games: This was actually pretty easy. AA1 has the highest overall quality, with no bad cases. AA2 is definitely the lowest overall, but has the highest peak. AA3 has one bad case, one okay case, two great cases, and one fantastic case. Im going with AA3 > AA1 > AA2, though it should be noted that the metal detector in the courtroom and final defeat of von Karma is probably the most satisfying moment in the series.

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wow was not expecting a smash spoiler here. thanks
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NFUN posted...

wow was not expecting a smash spoiler here. thanks

Sorry, I thought everyone had already watched the video, I deleted it.

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Anagram posted...

- Games: This was actually pretty easy. AA1 has the highest overall quality, with no bad cases. AA2 is definitely the lowest overall, but has the highest peak. AA3 has one bad case, one okay case, two great cases, and one fantastic case. Im going with AA3 > AA1 > AA2, though it should be noted that the metal detector in the courtroom and final defeat of von Karma is probably the most satisfying moment in the series.

That's basically exactly what I think

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Top 5 (or 10 if you feel like it) Witnesses and Defendants?


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Raka_Putra posted...

Top 5 (or 10 if you feel like it) Witnesses and Defendants?

Ill do that when I get home.

XIII_rocks posted...

That's basically exactly what I think

It seems like an obvious conclusion.

i also just realized my top three cases are the last cases of each game, which makes sense.

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Anagram posted...

Matt Engarde (Im counting him, live with it)

Matt is officially the "big bad" of the second game, so yeah, count him.

Which is another weak point about the second game - it feels the most like an anthology of cases as opposed to an overarching story connected by 4-5 cases that somehow centers around the big bad. The other games do that for the most part, with maybe one filler case per game (usually case 3, as you can tell).

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Underleveled posted...

Matt is officially the "big bad" of the second game, so yeah, count him.

Which is another weak point about the second game - it feels the most like an anthology of cases as opposed to an overarching story connected by 4-5 cases that somehow centers around the big bad. The other games do that for the most part, with maybe one filler case per game (usually case 3, as you can tell).

Well, the main plot cases I think you could say are 1-1, 1-2, 1-4, 1-5, 2-2, 3-1, 3-4, and 3-5.

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Just gonna mention this little detail since I don't think it's been brought up yet. Think about Redd White's name and Godot's motivations.

Godot can't see red on white, just like he blamed Phoenix for Mia's death instead of Redd White

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hombad46 posted...

Just gonna mention this little detail since I don't think it's been brought up yet. Think about Redd White's name and Godot's motivations.

Godot can't see red on white, just like he blamed Phoenix for Mia's death instead of Redd White

pure coincidence
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Godot best character
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Yeah I never noticed that.

Also...

Anagram posted...

- Teenage Girl Sidekicks: Mia > Maya > Ema > Pearl

Edgeworth > Phoenix > Godot > Pearl > Gunshoe are my top 5 characters in the series.

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NFUN posted...

pure coincidence

All of the games were out at the time in Japan, the localization team could've used advance knowledge to pick his name.

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hombad46 posted...

All of the games were out at the time in Japan, the localization team could've used advance knowledge to pick his name.

...fair
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hombad46 posted...

Just gonna mention this little detail since I don't think it's been brought up yet. Think about Redd White's name and Godot's motivations.

Godot can't see red on white, just like he blamed Phoenix for Mia's death instead of Redd White

Ah, didnt catch that. Thats actually super clever. Its also a little strange that Godot didnt care at all about him.

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Anyway TC you should totally play the later games at some point.

AA5 is what I'd call the most consistently good game in the series. All cases are solid. The only downside is that the epic case is not as good as other games' epic cases, but it's still pretty good.

And AA6 is more like an attempt to repeat the magic that was AA3 wrapping up its trilogy perfectly. And I'd say it succeeded, and the main plot is fantastic. Though this game has a couple bad cases.

AA4 is... entertaining.

hombad46 posted...

All of the games were out at the time in Japan, the localization team could've used advance knowledge to pick his name.

If they had the foreknowledge to localize this one characters name like that in a way that does not exist in the original Japanese, they would have had the foreknowledge to not set the game in America

Anyway did I miss it or did you not notice that Elise Deuxnim sounds a lot like pseudonym

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AA4 is worth playing just for 4-1.

And no I'm not joking or exaggerating.

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i'd rephrase that as 4-1 is worth playing

doesn't really make everything else worth it per se, though i like 4-2 quite a bit
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