Current Events > Reminder that Turnabout Big Top is a great case and the hate's largely unfounded

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DeadBankerDream
12/14/19 1:32:31 PM
#1:


The setting is great. Moe is great. Acro is great. Regina is great. Max is great. Ben and Trilo are the worst, but hey, they're not Lotta Hart or 2-4 Oldbag. Moe gets a lot of hate, which is stupid cause he's a fantastic character and his gimmick is humourous and smile-inducing rather than rage-inducing like a lot of haters pretend (that's right, you're just pretending, it's not possible for you to have an opinion that is different than mine!).

magine caring that the logic is fanciful. Hey, guess what guys? Turnabout Samurai's whole logic relied on the belief that people aren't able to walk off the path onto the grass sideway right next to it. It's dumb. Everything about SL-6 was also insanely dumb. Even if the dumbity of Big Top is somehow a turn off, the case does a damn fine job at hinting what you're supposed to do so uh, yeah no issue.

Sure there's a lot of fetching of seemingly unimportant stuff rather than advancing the story, but thats fine for a filler case cause it allows you to submerge yourself deeper in these one-off characters and locales. Plus, its nowhere near as bad as having to discover the identity of Gourdy in 1-4 where you're just fucking around while Edgeworth's life is on the line. Like I said, Max is great, but he's no Edgey-poo. And even in 1-4 I didn't think it was that bad.

Is it top tier? No. It's great fun though and easily above average for a filler case.

Actual legitimate arguments that in no way are worth enough to dislike the case:

-The music quickly wears out its welcome and becomes ear-grating by the end.

-Case tries too hard to make you have sympathy for Acro even though his actions, intended or otherwise are fairly monstrous. I think I view it more as having sympathy with the situation that made him a monster more so than the monster he is, but it is fairly reasonable to winch. Reminds me of the end of KH3, to be honest.

I also feel the case is a victim of being part of the Franziska von Karma storyline, cause she is just the worst prosecutor (or was till Sadman Raygun or whatever his face is joined the roster) character and unfortunately the case has to weave around her story, but I feel it would be unfair to hold that against it.

So yeah, Turnabout Big Top is literally the best case of all time if you exclude the better ones, but even so, es pretty good.
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BroodRyu
12/14/19 1:33:04 PM
#2:


I didnt read anything but the title and the first couple sentences cause this is such an awful take.
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Kircheis
12/14/19 1:40:59 PM
#3:


Replayed JFA recently and I was surprised at Moe being one of the less insufferable characters from that case tbh. His jokes are so bad that they loop around to being kinda funny, and he was surprisingly down to earth by the end of it. Not a fan of the whole "grown-ass men wanting to marry a 16 year old" bit, but eh, that's Japan for ya.

Why do people hate Oldbag though? She's hilarious. Half the fun of her character is how everyone else reacts to her rambling.

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Shotgunnova
12/14/19 1:42:02 PM
#4:


In West Clownadelphia, born and raised...

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DeadBankerDream
12/14/19 1:43:57 PM
#5:


I don't hate Oldbag, I hate when the games misuse her for cheap "ha look at the old bitchy granny" take.

Basically 1-3 and AAI-5 Oldbag is great. 2-4 and AAI-3 Oldbag is pure cancer.

There's no such thing as Lotta Hart being a worthwhile addition to a case.
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Smashingpmkns
12/14/19 1:45:30 PM
#6:


I stopped playing the game because of this case lmao
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Kircheis
12/14/19 1:48:02 PM
#7:


Smashingpmkns posted...
I stopped playing the game because of this case lmao

That's really unfortunate considering 2-4 is one of the best cases of the original trilogy. Should totally get back into it, JFA is worth playing just for 2-4 alone.

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Garioshi
12/14/19 1:48:29 PM
#8:


BroodRyu posted...
I didnt read anything but the title and the first couple sentences cause this is such an awful take.


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DeadBankerDream
12/14/19 1:51:06 PM
#9:


Both 2-2 and 2-4 are among the best cases in the franchise. JFA in general is fairly high quality for cases. I even like the tutorial, even if the whole amnesia thing is gimmicky and its absurd how nobody brings up that the victim had a broken neck. It plays around well with the gimmick involving the judge, Payne and Maya. And the murderer is a fun Tutorial Oldbag. Maggey Byrde is boring, but at least she's not the irredeemable bitch she is in 3-3.

JFA's main issue is being shackled to Von Karma. It's much better than Apollo Justice and Investigations and also above the 3D titles.
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GiftedACIII
12/14/19 2:04:01 PM
#10:


I actually really like 2-3 and JFA in general as well. I mainly like 2-3 because it's the one case (besides 1-5) where Phoenix never gets carried by Mia at any point and just roasts literally every character in the case. I think 3 is incredibly overrated though with 3-2 and 3-3 being some of the more boring cases in the series and the main cases all having the same main villain even if the arc itself was incredible so due to that I think 6 has the highest quality of cases I like after AAI2. 1 is also rather lackluster in retrospect with the first 3 cases all being more simple but like gen 1 Pokemon I have to excuse it for starting it all.
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ElatedVenusaur
12/14/19 2:08:15 PM
#11:


Not going to convince me that wasn't a dull, tiresome case, sorry. It gets more negative attention than it deserves because 2-2 is really good and 2-4 is arguably the best case in the series though, I'll give it that much.
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#12
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DeadBankerDream
12/14/19 2:35:53 PM
#13:


Imagine disliking a tragic clown character.

You might as well stand up in front of everyone and loudly inform them "I hate Robin Williams"
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Garioshi
12/14/19 2:50:11 PM
#14:


"""""tragic"""""

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#15
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Ballinari
12/14/19 3:04:24 PM
#16:


I haven't played the game in years but I never understood the hate that the case got tbh

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konokonohamaru
12/14/19 3:08:07 PM
#17:


Ballinari posted...
I haven't played the game in years but I never understood the hate that the case got tbh


I remember it was a case that's easy to get stuck in but I forgot why.

Acro is also one of the most boring characters ever
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dotsdfe
12/14/19 3:41:22 PM
#18:


I've always thought that 2-3 is really underrated too. It's at 25/44 in my case ranking for the whole series (minus DGS since I didn't play that).

It's kind of lowkey one of the darkest cases, and I really like how it touches on people accept and deal with death and tragedy. For a series so focused on death, not many other cases have hit at just how those deaths impact the people around them, and seeing how the circus members all dealt with it was great, particularly as Regina sees the events unfold and realizes that her dad really is gone and finally understands death in her own way. For a goofy case like that, it got pretty deep, and I really enjoyed that.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Honestly, I'll be one of the first to preach 1-5's flaws, personally. The case tried to do way too much with the double victim thing, and ends up having a massive plot hole in that Meekins was attacked (on camera), unconscious for a significant period of time, and was taken into custody right after, and yet he shows up in Edgeworth's office during this time period where he should be unconscious (or taken in, but timeline-wise it was pretty shortly after the initial murder and I think he should still be KO'd, but either way there's no way he was able to be in that office.

I also don't really think that the villain was particularly great. Namely in terms of how Gant was built up as this big imposing boss, but then as soon as you take him down (with evidence law being relevant for the literal only time in the series, which feels super super clunky and drags out the finale way past when it should have ended - especially taking away from the climax quite a bit), he kind of just says "Whoops! Yeah, guess I'm not great at committing crimes, huh?" and loses the entire effect. I was super on board with Gant as the big bad until the end of the case, where he totally lost his impact and just kinda backed down.

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think that 1-5 is a bad case by any means, I just think they tried to do too much with it and made it too long, leading to plot holes (like the one I mentioned among some smaller ones) and a somewhat lame climax.


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GiftedACIII
12/14/19 3:50:32 PM
#19:


dotsdfe posted...
I also don't really think that the villain was particularly great. Namely in terms of how Gant was built up as this big imposing boss, but then as soon as you take him down (with evidence law being relevant for the literal only time in the series, which feels super super clunky and drags out the finale way past when it should have ended - especially taking away from the climax quite a bit), he kind of just says "Whoops! Yeah, guess I'm not great at committing crimes, huh?" and loses the entire effect. I was super on board with Gant as the big bad until the end of the case, where he totally lost his impact and just kinda backed down.

To be fair this was kind of a pattern with AA1 and happened in 1-2 and 1-4 too. Both extremely imposing and influential bosses that were much easier to take down than they should've been.
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#20
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dotsdfe
12/14/19 4:08:38 PM
#21:


Conflict posted...

He backed down because he wasn't your traditional killer. Out of hatred for criminals and determination to get a criminal convicted, he became desperate and took matters in his own hands. You ultimately discover that Gant is really good at planning things out in advance, but not quite as good when he's cornered and impulsive. He was able to cover up Neil's murder very well, but not Goodman's, which was done impulsively. When Lana started testifying about the SL-9 incident, Gant got scared and wound up revealing critical details in a dire attempt to get Ema convicted, that wound up proving he was the real killer as both Phoenix and Edgeworth backed him into a corner. At that point, Gant basically admitted that the law was going to be in good hands with the efforts of both Phoenix and Edgeworth. If they could find him out with all the effort he went through to cover his crimes up, they could uncover any criminal.

I don't disagree with that, but it's more about how he was built up as this cold badass, but the second you take him down, he kind of just apologizes and laughs about it. I felt like he was built up as calculating and tough with a happy-go-lucky exterior, but the second he finishes breaking down, he starts apologizing and being goofy. It just totally took a lot of the edge away from him as a villain for me, and made him feel more silly than cool. I just couldn't take him as seriously after that portion.

I get his motives and where he made mistakes, and I like those elements, but it's more about him switching gears so quickly and just kind of becoming a wimp at the end. As ACIII said, Redd White would be a solid comparison in terms of just seeming imposing but then turning into a joke, though it wasn't as big of a deal in Redd's case since he always seemed to be pretty goofy. The way the case ended for Gant just made it super hard to take him seriously on subsequent playthroughs.

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