Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 490: 16 Weeks with Eric Bischoff

(+) Yeah! (+)

What credibility does Hager need? I was told he's the most feared MMA guy on the planet, and that was a shoot so remember, in AEW canon the entire roster is just a bunch of play acting scrubs and Hager is the only legit guy (and also Jericho is a very stupid man who doesn't quite know what "a shoot" is). He's automatically credible and needs to job to everyone to make it look like there's more than one person on the roster who isn't a total joke.
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AEW's roster is super top and bottom heavy and it needs more fleshing out in the mid level right now. Shuttling more guys into the main event scene immediately seems like a poor use of resources-- putting relatively more unknown guys in there temporarily to give them some baseline of credibility and interest, then revolving them out for the next guy, seems smarter to me.

I think the goal ideally was to make Darby be a guy you're always thinking has a chance to win a high stakes match, but not necessarily the guy who is going to reliably win that match, if that makes sense.

Like Darby's already had the resource of "competitive draw with Cody" and "pushed the champion to the limit" spent on him-- you can't do that with every guy you want to elevate otherwise it starts to lose meaning, and the top rung doesn't really need more people right now. It makes more sense to use him to help build Hager who then is used as a trick to get another lower card guy who needs some credibility over at the right time.
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1.014M for AEW
712k for NXT

AEW static, minus the TruTV simulcast viewers
NXT down from 790k
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NXT is embarassing. I feel like TNA Reaction got more viewership than that.
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Here is the CHART of the weekly battle
https://www.f4wonline.com/sites/www.f4wonline.com/files/u14296/nxt_vs_aew_1.png
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So here is how WWE apparently trying to buy Stardom went.

WWE made an offer to Stardom.

Stardom asked what they planned to do with Stardom if they bought it.

WWE said they had no plans.

Stardom turned WWE down.

This fucking company man.
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At least they're honest

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I would imagine it was more of trying to get the library?
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ScareChan posted...

I would imagine it was more of trying to get the library?

Its trying to make sure no one else gets the wrestlers
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If Stardom got put up on WWE Network I'd subscribe to WWE Network for another month or two to watch a bunch of stuff I haven't seen

That being said I'm not so desperate to watch more Stardom that I'd be happy about that
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dont leave out the part where they promised the owner of stardom a spot in the hall of fame

I'm not surprised NXT didn't do much, it was all showcase matches and was going up against AEW's first World Championship match on TV.

That being said, AEW not growing their numbers without MLB competition is pretty disappointing
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I doubt Darby vs Jericho was much of a draw to be honest

I expect PAC vs Moxley next week to draw better for sure
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I think "First Ever AEW Championship Match on live TV" is a pretty big draw. You only get one of those.
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I would 100% not put Darby over Hager if that's indeed the PPV match they're building to. The only Inner Circle members with a clean win on TV so far are LAX, and that was over enhancement talent.
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Am I the only one that thinks The Inner Circle is a dumb name?
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Oh shit, what's announced for AEW next week aside from Britt Baker? I'm going to that show.
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I like it as a play on The Elite
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I scrolled up and saw PAC vs Moxley. That alone has me hype as hell.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Oh shit, what's announced for AEW next week aside from Britt Baker? I'm going to that show.

Tag Tournament Semifinals
Pac vs Moxley
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Daves top match ratings for this week

****1/2
Ospreay vs El Phantasmo

****1/4
Ibushi vs EVIL

****
Suzuki vs Liger
Okada vs SANADA
Omega vs Janela
SCU vs Best Friends
Dunne vs Priest
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TheRock1525 posted...

I think "First Ever AEW Championship Match on live TV" is a pretty big draw. You only get one of those.

That's not a real draw though is it? WWE insisting you care about FIRST EVER ____ all these years has corrupted you.

I mean I certainly didn't care about the first title match for the sake of it being the first one but maybe that's just me
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Lopen posted...

That's not a real draw though is it?

It is.
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Where do you possibly get the idea that WWE invented the idea of "FIRST EVER _____" being made to be a big deal
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I mean I'm not saying they invented it I'm just saying it sounds like the kind of crap WWE would sell you to try and hype a match with no heat. Just look at the guys in the match and the build or lack thereof for it-- was anyone really that excited? PAC vs Moxley has to have more people excited.
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Lopen posted...

I mean I'm not saying they invented it I'm just saying it sounds like the kind of crap WWE would sell you to try and hype a match with no heat. Just look at the guys in the match and the build or lack thereof for it-- was anyone really that excited? PAC vs Moxley has to have more people excited.

Well, no, people weren't excited, but that was entirely AEW's fault and not a problem with the match itself.
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Like, I think it very much could have got people excited in the way Rock thinks if they actually hyped it, instead of literally hyping Cody/Jericho in its place.

That shit was insultingly stupid

Like, even WWE atleast pretends to care about its throwaway title matches.
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https://twitter.com/GameStop/status/1184873224888344579

bad list

for me it's

No Mercy
WWE All-Stars
WM2000
Revenge
World Tour

or at least throw a fire pro game in there
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needs more TEW and MDickie tbqh

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StealThisSheen posted...

Like, I think it very much could have got people excited in the way Rock thinks if they actually hyped it, instead of literally hyping Cody/Jericho in its place.

That shit was insultingly stupid

Oh no doubt but the question is what was a viewership draw not what could have been one. History just for history's sake is not a draw. You hype it up properly, maybe put someone a bit less of a project than Darby there, sure. But as it was? Nah. I doubt it moved the needle on show viewership at all.
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Lopen posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Like, I think it very much could have got people excited in the way Rock thinks if they actually hyped it, instead of literally hyping Cody/Jericho in its place.

That shit was insultingly stupid

Oh no doubt but the question is what was a viewership draw not what could have been one. History just for history's sake is not a draw. You hype it up properly, maybe put someone a bit less of a project than Darby there, sure. But as it was? Nah. I doubt it moved the needle on show viewership at all.

Well, I'm moreso arguing that history just for history's sake is a draw, but they actively killed any draw it had on its own.
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Here are the segment ratings breakdowns if that helps

it was a slowly declining audience with the Best Friends vs. Scorpio Sky & Frankie Kazarian the highest rated segment. Ortiz & Santana vs. Alex Reynolds & John Silver and a Cody video package lost 5.0 percent of the audience. Britt Baker vs. Riho lost 9.2 percent of the audience. Pentagon & Fenix vs. Marko Stunt & Jungle Boy gained 1.4 percent. Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Jon Moxley & Pac gained 4.3 percent. And Chris Jericho vs. Darby Allin lost 8.2 percent.

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SmackDown

the Seth Rollins vs. Roman Reigns finish and first draft picks gained 9.1 percent from the first quarter. King Corbin vs. Chad Gable lost 7.9 percent. Draft and promotion of both Tyson Fury vs. Braun Strowman, and Cain Velasquez vs. Brock Lesnar videos of the press conference gained 9.1 percent. The Paul Heyman & Lesnar interview plus Velasquez & Mysterio comeback lost 5.1 percent. New Day vs. OC and more drafting lost 5.9 percent. More draft stuff and the intros for Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley gained 5.7 percent. The Flair vs. Bayley title match main event gained 1.5 percent. So the two top segments were Rollins vs. Reigns and the first round of the draft and the video packages from the press conference earlier in the day.

Raw

In the segment-by-segment numbers, Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair gained 265,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Ali and the draft picks lost 259,000 viewers. Viking Raiders vs. Robert Roode & Dolph Ziggler quarter first loss 176,000 viewers but the finish of the match and Aleister Black vs. Eric Young gained 144,000 viewers. Draft picks and the angle with the Street Profits vs. The OC lost 182,000 viewers. Ricochet vs. Shelton Benjamin and the Lana/Bobby Lashley segment gained 69,000 viewers. Asuka & Kairi Sane vs. Natalya & Lacey Evans in the main event segment plus the burning of the Firefly Fun house lost 132,000 viewers. The overall peak quarter was 2,699,000 viewers for Flair vs. Lynch. The low point was the main event and Fun House segment with 1,826,000 viewers.

Seth Rollins Is Not Cool
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Jakyl25 posted...

the Lana/Bobby Lashley segment gained 69,000 viewers.

Nice
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It's funny that the AEW segment breakdown in terms of gained/lost viewers is pretty much right on what my interest was aside from the squash + cody package should have lost the most. Moxley and PAC segment gained the most though so yeah I'm sure if the cards actually matter next week will fare better than this one. (yes I know Kenny and Hangman were also there)

I know I wanna see the Moxley/PAC match. I don't know who's going to win (probably Moxley, but I don't know this) and I love it.
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Moxley/PAC likely ends in a draw of some sort. Time limit, double DQ, something like that.
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Now if you want to take my goodwill on AEW copout finishes like that will do it

PAC can kick him in the nuts while the ref is distracted all day but if we start being more concerned with keeping guys strong than getting actual winners I'm gonna be upset
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It's funny you say that, because to me the kick to the nuts is much more of a copout than a properly executed time limit draw.
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I gotta agree with Lopen.

A kick to the nuts is still one guy finding a way to overcome the other

A draw is just "We didn't want to pick a winner."
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Kick to the nuts is still one guy being the better man. Wrestling is a battle of wits as much as anything.

Time limit draw is fine with the right applications and if used sparingly (keeping in mind we already had a high profile one recently with Cody/Darby) but I don't feel Moxley/PAC is the right match-up for one.

Double DQ/Countout is never good.
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Draws are great. Double DQs are only okay if you're Roddy Piper. Same with double countouts.
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I think double DQs/countouts can be okay with a character like Mox as long as you don't lean on it too heavily. It's not what I would do, but I don't think it's automatically bad.

If it was me, I think I would just have Mox beat him, but I think we've already pretty well established that AEW isn't booking anywhere close to how I would be.
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Mox is Piper enough for them, I guess. I'm not thrilled about it though.
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Double DQ/Countout makes sense for like, Moxley vs Omega-- it would be an okay finish there if you really had to.

PAC actually cares about his win/loss record though. That's the whole reason they imploded as a team. He's not going to allow a draw to happen if he can avoid it and double countouts/DQs are generally avoidable.

Time Limit draw is potentially okay but I just don't like those two as a "go the distance" type match really. I feel like PAC tries to put him away before that's on the table to avoid getting a draw and makes a mistake, or Moxley makes a mistake just because he's Moxley.
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Lopen posted...

Double DQ/Countout makes sense for like, Moxley vs Omega-- it would be an okay finish there if you really had to.

PAC actually cares about his win/loss record though. That's the whole reason they imploded as a team. He's not going to allow a draw to happen if he can avoid it and double countouts/DQs are generally avoidable.

Time Limit draw is potentially okay but I just don't like those two as a "go the distance" type match really. I feel like PAC tries to put him away before that's on the table to avoid getting a draw and makes a mistake, or Moxley makes a mistake just because he's Moxley.

Maybe he grabs a plugged in TV.
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Speaking of Omega vs Moxley

Hilarious little detail in Omega vs Janela-- Kenny Omega did the Lunatic Lariat to Janela before hitting him with Dirty Deeds as a way to take a shot at Moxley. It's kinda hilarious cause Moxley hasn't used that stupid lariat (for good reason) since leaving WWE I believe and on some level I'm sure he ties that move to everything he hated about WWE, so it's like, layers of insult there.

I'm just saying Omega is awesome in case anyone didn't know I guess. Made that terrible move something I actually enjoyed seeing in a match.
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Time limit draws tend to draw my attention way too much to how eternally arbitrary the damage people receive is in wrestling. Shorter time limits (like up to 20 minutes) tend to make it feel weird that ordinary matches of that length feature the same amount of punishment but end up with one guy down for the count, longer time limits almost always end up with parts feeling like the guys are stalling for time because they're out of ideas on how to keep the match going without making their own offense look utterly worthless.
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I loved the rebound lariat.

He just needed to use it less. Like I remember him and Rollins at Summerslam had a great spot with it.
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I also loved the rebound lariat but I had the advantage of not watching that much WWE at the time so he could use it every match and not burn me out

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It's not bad in very small doses, but I'm sure he used it once and Vince was like "THAT'S SUCH GOOD SHIT PAL" and he was given an order to use it every match, because it's really the type of move you can't use for every match or even close to otherwise it just looks forced.
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