Board 8 > Blizzard bans and withholds prize money from hearthstone player for HK support

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Corrik7
10/08/19 11:45:35 PM
#303:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
*played a game, past tense
because of the other thing I know about him: that he risked (and subsequently lost) his tournament prize and his ability to participate in future competitions to speak out for his cause

what more do I need to know about him to think he deserves my support way more than a giant corporation?
What do you know about Blizzard that makes you want to lick their boots here?
I don't sit there and support Blizzard and talk about how they are swell dudes. If they make a game that I enjoy, I play it. It is nothing more than a business transaction.

I mean, come on now... They aren't Microsoft. Haha!

That said, a business made a business decision based on their rules at their own event. Doesn't seem like an issue to me.

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Lopen
10/08/19 11:51:27 PM
#304:


I think making it purely a profit margin thing is dumbing it down anyway

Does China bow out completely with a less severe punishment or even no punishment at all? Hard to say, but honestly really doubtful. Was the decision to be severe largely about appeasing massive profit generator China? Possibly, but again, hard to say.

For me the point of interest is less about "is Blizzard okay to make a decision entirely because it boosts their bottom line" cause I mean clearly they are and it's just about whether you find it scummy. The interesting thing to consider is more "is Blizzard necessarily in the wrong if they want to keep charged topics off their streams in general." Because I think the latter thinking is a bigger factor than a lot of people are giving credit for, and part of this was trying to make a decisive example to prevent further incidents. They're not entirely unrelated or anything and I'm not saying trying to purge that kinda stuff isn't ultimately being done with a profit driven mindset (more of a preventative potential bad PR measure) but I consider the latter a lot more acceptable as a mindset than "let's get in good with the regime by totally obliterating this guy" which is how everyone seems to be framing it.

Like I just don't think it's reasonable to hold a company to a standard where they're expected to basically take the role of an activist-- the "these don't represent Blizzard" disclaimers are nice but they're technicalities more than anything. If you broadcast something, it's getting tied to you. Wanting to prevent that is fine. Blizzard is a gaming company not a news outlet or public forum and not wanting heat associated with their brand is acceptable. It's not a matter of straight censorship it's about whether a content creator has control over what gets associated with them.

But yeah, the extent of the punishment was egregious so I don't support Blizzard here, but I just don't think they're necessarily scum of the earth either depending on what the mindset was, which we can't really know. Backpedaling and admitting they overreacted and dialing the punishment back a lot (and completely for the casters) would do a lot to mend the situation.
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LordoftheMorons
10/08/19 11:56:13 PM
#305:


Lopen posted...
Was the decision to be severe largely about appeasing massive profit generator China?
Very obviously yes

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Corrik7
10/08/19 11:57:39 PM
#306:


Lopen posted...
I think making it purely a profit margin thing is dumbing it down anyway

Does China bow out completely with a less severe punishment or even no punishment at all? Hard to say, but honestly really doubtful. Was the decision to be severe largely about appeasing massive profit generator China? Possibly, but again, hard to say.

For me the point of interest is less about "is Blizzard okay to make a decision entirely because it boosts their bottom line" cause I mean clearly they are and it's just about whether you find it scummy. The interesting thing to consider is more "is Blizzard necessarily in the wrong if they want to keep charged topics off their streams in general." Because I think the latter thinking is a bigger factor than a lot of people are giving credit for, and part of this was trying to make a decisive example to prevent further incidents. They're not entirely unrelated or anything and I'm not saying trying to purge that kinda stuff isn't ultimately being done with a profit driven mindset (more of a preventative potential bad PR measure) but I consider the latter a lot more acceptable as a mindset than "let's get in good with the regime by totally obliterating this guy" which is how everyone seems to be framing it.

Like I just don't think it's reasonable to hold a company to a standard where they're expected to basically take the role of an activist-- the "these don't represent Blizzard" disclaimers are nice but they're technicalities more than anything. If you broadcast something, it's getting tied to you. Wanting to prevent that is fine. Blizzard is a gaming company not a news outlet or public forum and not wanting heat associated with their brand is acceptable. It's not a matter of straight censorship it's about whether a content creator has control over what gets associated with them.

But yeah, the extent of the punishment was egregious so I don't support Blizzard here, but I just don't think they're necessarily scum of the earth either depending on what the mindset was, which we can't really know. Backpedaling and admitting they overreacted and dialing the punishment back a lot (and completely for the casters) would do a lot to mend the situation.
I see no chance Blizzard rescinds their decision. I am not going to go buy a Blizzard game because I support their action, but I am not going to skip out on a game I want to play because of who made it either.

I see so many people saying there are going to boycott Blizzard because they don't play their games anymore anyways (fake boycott) or they will buy Activision games still but not Blizzard (a bit weird). But, honestly it is a real small group who actively are going to boycott Activisoon-Blizzard that dump significant money into their games. While they potentially were going to lose a massive amount by losing out on the China market.

I believe their decision was extremely based on their markets, whether you think so or not. I do not think they are wrong to reserve the right to make that decision either as obviously not wanting to be associated with controversy seems fine to me. However, I'd bet $$$$$$ was the underlying reason here.

And, I definitely do not think it was to signal their support of the Chinese government regarding Hong Kong either.

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LordoftheMorons
10/09/19 12:01:56 AM
#307:


Corrik7 posted...
I believe their decision was extremely based on their markets, whether you think so or not. I do not think they are wrong to reserve the right to make that decision either as obviously not wanting to be associated with controversy seems fine to me. However, I'd bet $$$$$$ was the underlying reason here.

And, I definitely do not think it was to signal their support of the Chinese government regarding Hong Kong either.
Of course their motivation was money. Nobody in this topic is alleging that Blizzard management is personally deeply devoted to Chinese nationalism. The fact that they're putting profit over principles that they presumably would say they believe in when it didn't cost them anything is exactly what people are objecting to.

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MoogleKupo141
10/09/19 12:04:47 AM
#308:


wait what, blizzard did it for money??!!!!

that changes everything !
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metroid composite
10/09/19 12:06:25 AM
#309:


GranzonEx posted...
shhh stop virtue signaling unless you're willing to get on a plane right now and go to Hong Kong and protest on the streets

Eh

I can want someone to have freedom of speech without agreeing with their political views.

I can share someone's political views without engaging in a boycott or similar action.

I can participate in mild action like a boycott without travelling to another country, missing work, and taking to the streets where protectors have been shot.

So...I don't see why this is all-or-nothing.
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Peace___Frog
10/09/19 12:09:33 AM
#310:


Hey guys, ulti was quoted from reddit for a vice article lol

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/bjw535/blizzards-hong-kong-screw-up-is-officially-an-international-incident

"Ive been playing since beta. Good riddance, redditor UltimaterializerX said. Blizzard CLEARLY only cares about the Chinese market. The censorship of art was bad enough. The censorship of human life is indefensible. Finding videos of whats going on in Hong Kong is easy and I suggest everyone do so. Its Tiananmen Square all over again.


Isn't this at least the 20th time he's quit hearthstone? I haven't followed the hs topic in a long time so my estimate might be off.
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Lopen
10/09/19 12:09:41 AM
#311:


I mean don't get me wrong I think if China is like 3% of their profits instead of 30% they aren't making that snap judgment and more carefully consider what punishment is fair and fits but I think saying it's just about fear of losing potential China profit right now by not bending a knee and groveling I think is dumbing it down.

Like if this guy does that with no repercussions what's to stop another and another and Blizzard perpetually becoming a soapbox for whatever charged topic comes up and becoming associated with all sorts of things they'd rather just stay out of cause there's no profit there. I feel like that kinda mindset was at work too, and is a lot more forgivable.
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MetalmindStats
10/09/19 12:16:29 AM
#312:


metroid composite posted...
Eh

I can want someone to have freedom of speech without agreeing with their political views.

I can share someone's political views without engaging in a boycott or similar action.

I can participate in mild action like a boycott without travelling to another country, missing work, and taking to the streets where protectors have been shot.

So...I don't see why this is all-or-nothing.

You're the second person in this topic to miss Granzon's sarcasm.
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MoogleKupo141
10/09/19 12:19:14 AM
#313:


Like if this guy does that with no repercussions what's to stop another and another and Blizzard perpetually becoming a soapbox for whatever charged topic comes up and becoming associated with all sorts of things they'd rather just stay out of cause there's no profit there. I feel like that kinda mindset was at work too, and is a lot more forgivable.


they could have not punished this guy and let everyone use their tournament interview time to talk about whatever they want forever and no one would ever know about it because who the hell is watching Hearthstone player interviews?
Choosing to censor him ended up giving him way more attention than he otherwise would have had and is the only reason any of us here even know what he said, so legitimately I think the best way for them to have avoided becoming associated with any sort of political topic would have been to just totally leave this alone... but that pesky Chinese government presumably forced their hand.

they really Streisand effected this up badly in a way that reflects poorly on them and attracts more negative attention to China than just not doing nothing would have, its super dumb
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Lopen
10/09/19 12:21:09 AM
#314:


Maybe they knew that would happen and are secretly patriots
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MoogleKupo141
10/09/19 12:23:46 AM
#315:


https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181778525025644546?s=21

like Hong Kong 100% would not have come up at this college tournament today if not for Blizzards reaction to Blitzchung. they tried to put out a fire but accidentally grabbed a bucket of gasoline
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MoogleKupo141
10/09/19 12:24:05 AM
#316:


Lopen posted...
Maybe they knew that would happen and are secretly patriots


thats a fun theory ok I like blizzard again
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Corrik7
10/09/19 12:25:33 AM
#317:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181778525025644546?s=21

like Hong Kong 100% would not have come up at this college tournament today if not for Blizzards reaction to Blitzchung. they tried to put out a fire but accidentally grabbed a bucket of gasoline
I think you give more credit to how big this thing is to the majority of people than it really is tbqh.

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MoogleKupo141
10/09/19 12:32:51 AM
#318:


Corrik7 posted...
MoogleKupo141 posted...
https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181778525025644546?s=21

like Hong Kong 100% would not have come up at this college tournament today if not for Blizzards reaction to Blitzchung. they tried to put out a fire but accidentally grabbed a bucket of gasoline
I think you give more credit to how big this thing is to the majority of people than it really is tbqh.


i dont know how much credit to give it, but it is orders of magnitude bigger now than it would have been if Blizzard just left it alone

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1181658094515953664?s=21

i dont think hearthstone player says liberate HK on a stream and faces no repercussions would have made it into the Washington Post
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Drakeryn
10/09/19 12:48:49 AM
#319:


Lopen posted...
Like I just don't think it's reasonable to hold a company to a standard where they're expected to basically take the role of an activist-- the "these don't represent Blizzard" disclaimers are nice but they're technicalities more than anything. If you broadcast something, it's getting tied to you. Wanting to prevent that is fine.

This is the part I completely disagree with. Suppose Blizzard did literally nothing. I would not for an instant think "yes, these are the views of Blizzard, he is speaking as a company representative" instead of "this is a Hearthstone player's personal views."
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Corrik7
10/09/19 12:49:45 AM
#320:


Drakeryn posted...
This is the part I completely disagree with. Suppose Blizzard did literally nothing. I would not for an instant think "yes, these are the views of Blizzard, he is speaking as a company representative" instead of "this is a Hearthstone player's personal views."
It doesn't matter what you think, Drak. It matters what the Chinese would think.

You guys seem to really be ignoring the NBA thing in regards to this.

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Corrik7
10/09/19 12:51:00 AM
#321:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
i dont know how much credit to give it, but it is orders of magnitude bigger now than it would have been if Blizzard just left it alone

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1181658094515953664?s=21

i dont think hearthstone player says liberate HK on a stream and faces no repercussions would have made it into the Washington Post
It hasn't really made it into any big news sites and only a couple are picking up on it until just now.

It is fairly small potatos in comparison to the NBA thing. And look how Silver is responding to that.

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LordoftheMorons
10/09/19 12:52:59 AM
#322:


The Chinese wouldn't think that they were Blizzard's views either. They would think "hey, we're doing business with you so why aren't you censoring all messages that implicitly criticize the government?" and Blizzard's too cowardly to tell them "no, that's not how we do things."

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GranzonEx
10/09/19 12:53:15 AM
#323:


probably because Silver has actual data that supports why he doesn't give a shit about the Chinese market: they buy fake jerseys and their tv deals probably suck so the NBA's real money is in the US
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Drakeryn
10/09/19 12:55:19 AM
#324:


Corrik7 posted...
Drakeryn posted...
This is the part I completely disagree with. Suppose Blizzard did literally nothing. I would not for an instant think "yes, these are the views of Blizzard, he is speaking as a company representative" instead of "this is a Hearthstone player's personal views."
It doesn't matter what you think, Drak. It matters what the Chinese would think.

Chinese people are not any dumber than American people, they won't think it's the views of Blizzard either
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Lopen
10/09/19 1:00:08 AM
#325:


Drakeryn posted...
I would not for an instant think "yes, these are the views of Blizzard, he is speaking as a company representative"


That's because you're thinking about it, though.

The majority aren't thinking about it. It's reported as "dude on Hearthstone stream says ____" and it's linked to the stream as its point of origin. The link in your mind is there. When you technically boil it down no it's not anything blizzard endorses but it's still something broadcast from a blizzard source which creates associations whether right or wrong.

Like in an ideal world you're right I just don't think it's working that way in practice. If Blizzard streams started becoming a hotbed for MAGA folks to start on rants then you're like "oh yeah blizzard their games have all those MAGA nuts playing em" which is not necessarily an image they want
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Corrik7
10/09/19 1:04:27 AM
#326:


They cancelled NBA games in Chin. Chinese companies cancelled contracts with the NBA. Etc.

Blizzard can't afford that to happen to one of their biggest markets. If Blizzard gets blacked out of China, their company is relatively obliterated.

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MoogleKupo141
10/09/19 1:05:21 AM
#327:


Corrik7 posted...
MoogleKupo141 posted...
i dont know how much credit to give it, but it is orders of magnitude bigger now than it would have been if Blizzard just left it alone

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1181658094515953664?s=21

i dont think hearthstone player says liberate HK on a stream and faces no repercussions would have made it into the Washington Post
It hasn't really made it into any big news sites and only a couple are picking up on it until just now.

It is fairly small potatos in comparison to the NBA thing. And look how Silver is responding to that.


well yeah, the NBA is extremely mainstream American culture compared to hearthstone, of course that situation is getting more press

but that this hearthstone thing has made it to any major news sites is indicative of how much Blizzards censorship attempt magnified the attention they would otherwise have gotten
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MawiIe
10/09/19 1:34:58 AM
#328:


Peace___Frog posted...
Hey guys, ulti was quoted from reddit for a vice article lol

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/bjw535/blizzards-hong-kong-screw-up-is-officially-an-international-incident

"Ive been playing since beta. Good riddance, redditor UltimaterializerX said. Blizzard CLEARLY only cares about the Chinese market. The censorship of art was bad enough. The censorship of human life is indefensible. Finding videos of whats going on in Hong Kong is easy and I suggest everyone do so. Its Tiananmen Square all over again.


Isn't this at least the 20th time he's quit hearthstone? I haven't followed the hs topic in a long time so my estimate might be off.


we are literally in a timeline where vice has reported on Ulti's hearthstone quitting shtick

what is happening
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Aecioo
10/09/19 1:50:09 AM
#329:


GranzonEx posted...
probably because Silver has actual data that supports why he doesn't give a shit about the Chinese market: they buy fake jerseys and their tv deals probably suck so the NBA's real money is in the US


somehow the dumbest post in this topic

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LordoftheMorons
10/09/19 1:55:12 AM
#330:


https://deadspin.com/internal-memo-espn-forbids-discussion-of-chinese-polit-1838881032

jesus christ

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red13n
10/09/19 2:49:08 AM
#331:


Corrik7 posted...
They cancelled NBA games in Chin. Chinese companies cancelled contracts with the NBA. Etc.

Blizzard can't afford that to happen to one of their biggest markets. If Blizzard gets blacked out of China, their company is relatively obliterated.


Blizzard has afforded it just fine for how many years now?

China still isn't a major form of revenue from them. Its a growing market but it has not been essential for their survival at any point. Their loyal base has always been, you know, Americans, where we don't make people disappear for disagreeing with our leader.

And yes, China is now going to pretend there aren't NBA games being played in their country.
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Corrik7
10/09/19 2:58:10 AM
#332:


https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/09/asia/houston-rockets-fan-arrested-china-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

"On Weibo, some posters said if Morey can say whatever he wants, they would do so too, no matter how controversial. So they posted comments in support of 9/11 or the independence of California in an apparent attempt to mock the idea of freedom of expression."
Jesus.

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handsomeboy2012
10/09/19 3:03:12 AM
#333:


Not surprising that a democracy movement is being painted as terrorism in China. The state media feeds bullshit and they gladly lap it up.

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LordoftheMorons
10/09/19 4:06:59 AM
#334:


https://twitter.com/grummz/status/1181736075775004672?s=21

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firefdr
10/09/19 5:22:13 AM
#335:


latest episode of South Park really was spot on

pretty sad lots of big companies nowadays are bending their knees to the chinese government
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Leafeon13N
10/09/19 6:17:32 AM
#336:


The blizzard story is starting to make the news alongside the NBA story.
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Peace___Frog
10/09/19 8:21:01 AM
#337:


MoogleKupo141 posted...
https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1181778525025644546?s=21

like Hong Kong 100% would not have come up at this college tournament today if not for Blizzards reaction to Blitzchung. they tried to put out a fire but accidentally grabbed a bucket of gasoline

Yes i agree. Obviously China doesn't see it that way, but blizzard was definitely not prepared for this level of backlash
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redrocket
10/09/19 8:26:41 AM
#338:


Is Twitter down for anyone else? Are they being DDOSd?

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redrocket
10/09/19 8:30:16 AM
#339:


Also, ironically, Ulti has already gifted Blizzard with so much money on Hearthstone purchases that it would probably require at least an additional 500 players quitting just to make up for all the money he has already spent there.

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Peace___Frog
10/09/19 8:33:01 AM
#340:


redrocket posted...
Is Twitter down for anyone else? Are they being DDOSd?

It's fine for me
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redrocket
10/09/19 8:44:34 AM
#341:


Its still completely down for me. Weird.

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Metal_DK
10/09/19 9:16:43 AM
#342:


Anytime a website from the CRo2k7 is down for an extended amount of time we all get a well deserved break

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redrocket
10/09/19 9:54:49 AM
#343:


Metal_DK posted...
Blizzard has been a shit company since 2006/2007ish for real


What exactly were they doing at that time to earn that kind of condemnation?

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metroid composite
10/09/19 10:14:56 AM
#344:


redrocket posted...
Also, ironically, Ulti has already gifted Blizzard with so much money on Hearthstone purchases that it would probably require at least an additional 500 players quitting just to make up for all the money he has already spent there.

That is not how it works. Activision Blizzard laid off 800 employees at the start of this year in no small part because Hearthstone numbers were dipping.

Companies need sustained revenue to support team sizes. (If anything the reddit complaint with hearthstone is that they hadn't been adding enough new features to hearthstone, so people wanted an even larger team to add even more stuff to the game; tournament mode, replays etc).

And it's not just hearthstone players who are boycotting; people are cancelling their WoW subscriptions, cancelling their TFT preorders, etc.

Reddit and GameFAQs are a bit of a bubble, granted, so who knows how big of an impact these boycotts will actually have. But there's no such thing as "oh, someone gave them hundreds of dollars a few years ago, so lots of people would need to quit to make up for that". I would estimate the operating budget of Hearthstone at probably around 20 million per year.
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Gatarix
10/09/19 10:15:52 AM
#345:


go Ulti go
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redrocket
10/09/19 10:34:41 AM
#346:


mc, that was a joke post.

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metroid composite
10/09/19 10:38:50 AM
#347:


Norway MP letter to Blizzard, threatening to not hold tournaments of Blizzard games on Norway soil anymore:

https://imgur.com/a/HSnUslL#Uj1TSw9
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SaintAkira7
10/09/19 11:33:43 AM
#348:


http://bmkgaming.com/statement-on-blitzchung/

Kibbles goes pretty hard here, if anyone'sv interested.

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handsomeboy2012
10/09/19 12:12:31 PM
#349:


It's high time we all realize the lengths that the CCP is willing to go to suppress basic human rights. It is not enough for them to do it in their own soil, they are now trying to silence dissent in other sovereign countries and the companies are helping them. Blizzard and NBA are just the start.

Some of you may say that Blitzchung shouldn't have done it at a public interview (which I can see the reasoning, and disagree with). But I think we can all agree that Blizzard's response is way overblown and they are making things worse by doubling down.

Blizzard and NBA are a sign of way worse things to come. In fact 'way worse' is happening here in HK right now. An airline company had fired a bunch of people for sharing pro-HK posts on Facebook - they didn't voice their opinions in public, and they aren't public figures like Daryl Morey, yet the CCP went for them anyway, otherwise it's likely the company will be barred from entering Chinese airspace.

There was another person who lost his job becausee talked shit about China on Whatsapp. Apparently one of his colleagues reported this private conversation to the higher-ups. Granted it was a Chinese-owned company but this is literally a White Terror, to make everyone too afraid to speak up by threatening our livelihoods.

For the record I don't think anything of this scale is going to happen in the US in the near future, but this kind of disgusting self-censorship is going to be more and more prevalent as China increases its control over American businesses, and we have to take a stand before it gets worse. I don't know exactly how, though it doesn't hurt to put pressure on Blizzard and keep up the outrage.
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KamikazePotato
10/09/19 12:31:04 PM
#350:


The Overwatch subreddit is trying to make Mei a symbol of Hong Kong now. Fan art starting to come out the woodworks

It's amazing how spectacularly this backfired on Blizzard
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Black Turtle did a pretty good job.
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GranzonEx
10/09/19 12:36:10 PM
#351:


Aecioo posted...
GranzonEx posted...
probably because Silver has actual data that supports why he doesn't give a shit about the Chinese market: they buy fake jerseys and their tv deals probably suck so the NBA's real money is in the US


somehow the dumbest post in this topic

imagine thinking the commissioner of a multi billion dollar company is willing to piss off the China if he didn't have data suggesting that the Chinese market is not sustainable growth

you and probably every other shareholder and investor on Wall Street vastly overestimate how much money the average middle class consumer in China has to spend
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2 line break(s), 160 characters allowed
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Aecioo
10/09/19 12:52:53 PM
#352:


GranzonEx posted...
imagine thinking the commissioner of a multi billion dollar company is willing to piss off the China if he didn't have data suggesting that the Chinese market is not sustainable growth

you and probably every other shareholder and investor on Wall Street vastly overestimate how much money the average middle class consumer in China has to spend


https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/nba-china-revenue-business-sponsors

not sustainable growth lol. they've only been working on growing in china for 20 years to just now realize the biggest entertainment market in the world is not worth their time

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