Current Events > California's Left doubles down on the policies that made the state the poorest

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pls
09/14/19 5:37:46 PM
#1:


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DeadBankerDream
09/14/19 5:40:10 PM
#2:


But it's not the poorest state...
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Hop103
09/14/19 5:40:27 PM
#3:


You'd think California would try to help their poor and homeless but of course they tend to cater to rich, fake liberals that run rampant in the state as usual. it's sad.
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iron jojo
09/14/19 5:41:05 PM
#4:


DeadBankerDream posted...
But it's not the poorest state...

Because of a select few.
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pls
09/14/19 5:41:31 PM
#5:


DeadBankerDream posted...
But it's not the poorest state...


Well technically it has the highest poverty rate but also the biggest economy, so we are both right. Although in the most meaningful sense I am right and you are wrong, since it is generally understood that by "poorest state" we mean the state with the most poverty.
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DeadBankerDream
09/14/19 5:42:29 PM
#6:


pls posted...
it is generally understood that by "poorest state" we mean the state with the most poverty.

You literally made that up just now to suit your argument.
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Humble_Novice
09/14/19 5:43:18 PM
#7:


Don't be such a conservative, TC.
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RickyTheBAWSE
09/14/19 5:45:23 PM
#8:


oh, there's nothing to contribute to ITT

*topic list*
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UnholyMudcrab
09/14/19 5:45:24 PM
#9:


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Gafemage
09/14/19 5:46:19 PM
#10:


DeadBankerDream posted...
pls posted...
it is generally understood that by "poorest state" we mean the state with the most poverty.

You literally made that up just now to suit your argument.

lmfao
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Damn_Underscore
09/14/19 5:49:02 PM
#11:


The one interesting thing about this is that it could get more new homes to be built in California.

But there are better ways of doing that than implementing rent control.
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Offworlder1
09/14/19 5:51:17 PM
#12:


Anyone surprised by this must be unaware of how California has been for atleast 30 plus years.
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pls
09/14/19 6:08:19 PM
#13:


Damn_Underscore posted...
The one interesting thing about this is that it could get more new homes to be built in California.

But there are better ways of doing that than implementing rent control.


Damn_Underscore posted...
The one interesting thing about this is that it could get more new homes to be built in California.

But there are better ways of doing that than implementing rent control.


Uh do you live under a rock? This will have the opposite effect. less construction.
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Damn_Underscore
09/14/19 6:10:48 PM
#14:


"a measure which imposes a 5% above the rate of inflation annual cap on rent increases or 10%, whichever is lower, for rental properties 15 years or older"

They have to build new properties to get around the rent control.
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ToadallyAwesome
09/14/19 6:14:05 PM
#15:


If you have never experienced California housing costs or rent costs then you cant say shit. Its a really big problem.
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iron jojo
09/16/19 2:31:15 AM
#16:


ToadallyAwesome posted...
If you have never experienced California housing costs or rent costs then you cant say shit. Its a really big problem.

Yes.
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Broseph_Stalin
09/16/19 3:07:24 AM
#17:


ToadallyAwesome posted...
If you have never experienced California housing costs or rent costs then you cant say shit. Its a really big problem.

and it's about to get bigger
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Crazyman93
09/16/19 3:13:49 AM
#18:


Doesn't NYC have rent controls in place? And as I recall, they have some of the most outrageous rent prices on the Eastern Seaboard.
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kingdrake2
09/16/19 3:18:06 AM
#19:


Crazyman93 posted...
Doesn't NYC have rent controls in place? And as I recall, they have some of the most outrageous rent prices on the Eastern Seaboard.


i don't think they do. the eastern/western seaboard has always had sky high rent. if wanted a better place have to live with other family or roommates.

though NY kinda sucked you get a small studio apartment for 2k a month.
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scar the 1
09/16/19 3:25:20 AM
#20:


I just skimmed the article, but what was the argument for why rent control will make prices go up?
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inloveanddeath0
09/16/19 3:27:27 AM
#21:


DeadBankerDream posted...
You literally made that up just now to suit your argument.
Try posting on your main, buddy

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Broseph_Stalin
09/16/19 3:32:38 AM
#22:


Crazyman93 posted...
Doesn't NYC have rent controls in place? And as I recall, they have some of the most outrageous rent prices on the Eastern Seaboard.

A very small number of units are rent-controlled in NYC, but a majority have some kind of regulation. It's important to note that the US, in general, has ridiculous zoning/housing laws. It is just more apparent in places where there is a high demand to live, like NYC and California.

scar the 1 posted...
I just skimmed the article, but what was the argument for why rent control will make prices go up?

Rent control reduces the supply of new housing, which is the main reason rents are already so high. It's literally making the problem worse.
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Bio1590
09/16/19 3:47:49 AM
#23:


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scar the 1
09/16/19 6:11:10 AM
#24:


Broseph_Stalin posted...
Rent control reduces the supply of new housing, which is the main reason rents are already so high. It's literally making the problem worse.

So it needs to be coupled with an incentive for building new housing.
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Broseph_Stalin
09/16/19 7:06:12 AM
#25:


scar the 1 posted...
So it needs to be coupled with an incentive for building new housing.

Rent control is a major disincentive for building new housing. It needs to be dropped altogether.

Keep in mind these policies are designed to fail. Rich property owners want to keep people out of their neighborhoods and constrict the supply of housing. With rent control, they can do that while disguising it as a progressive initiative. Republicans aren't the only ones who vote against their interest.
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Kavatar
09/16/19 7:15:37 AM
#26:


pls posted...
DeadBankerDream posted...
But it's not the poorest state...


Well technically it has the highest poverty rate but also the biggest economy, so we are both right. Although in the most meaningful sense I am right and you are wrong, since it is generally understood that by "poorest state" we mean the state with the most poverty.

This is late but I just wanted to correct this bullshit. California does not have the highest poverty rate. Not even close.
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Southernfatman
09/16/19 7:19:23 AM
#27:


This is only brought up to smear the left. The right doesn't care about the homeless or poor. If you did, you wouldn't be peddling trickle down bullshit and giving more power and money to the already rich.

This is a corruption and greed thing as usual. If this was happening in a red state we wouldn't hear shit about this sort of thing.
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Broseph_Stalin
09/16/19 7:24:22 AM
#28:


Southernfatman posted...
If you did, you wouldn't be peddling trickle down bullshit and giving more power and money to the already rich.


i think you posted in the wrong topic
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ScazarMeltex
09/16/19 7:25:24 AM
#29:


If California has any money problems it's because of huge amounts of the wealth generated there is taken and used to subsidize the shithole that is the south. Minus Texas of course.

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Southernfatman
09/16/19 7:42:44 AM
#30:


Broseph_Stalin posted...
i think you posted in the wrong topic


Oh. Thought this was another topic about this subject. It may have gotten deleted. I'm a dumbass who hasn't had his coffee yet.
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scar the 1
09/16/19 8:36:59 AM
#31:


Broseph_Stalin posted...
scar the 1 posted...
So it needs to be coupled with an incentive for building new housing.

Rent control is a major disincentive for building new housing. It needs to be dropped altogether.

Keep in mind these policies are designed to fail. Rich property owners want to keep people out of their neighborhoods and constrict the supply of housing. With rent control, they can do that while disguising it as a progressive initiative. Republicans aren't the only ones who vote against their interest.

Supposing you still want private actors to build and rent, I don't see why you couldn't compensate that disincentive with incentive for building new housing. Make the investment less painful to motivate the lower return.
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Doom_Art
09/16/19 8:56:03 AM
#32:


Damn conservatives are really salty about not being able to win elections here, eh?

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Balrog0
09/16/19 8:56:36 AM
#33:


@scar_the_1 are you Swedish, or am I getting you confused with another poster?

The only reason I ask is that if you are, you may be familiar with Gunnar Myrdal and Assar Lindbeck who said that rent control "the worst example of poor planning" and "the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city except for bombing"

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scar the 1
09/16/19 9:08:21 AM
#34:


Balrog0 posted...
@scar_the_1 are you Swedish, or am I getting you confused with another poster?

The only reason I ask is that if you are, you may be familiar with Gunnar Myrdal and Assar Lindbeck who said that rent control "the worst example of poor planning" and "the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city except for bombing"

I am! And I'm not familiar with those quotes but I recognize the names. I'll look into it.
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Balrog0
09/16/19 9:16:04 AM
#35:


FWIW I'm not an expert on rent control and I've found it difficult to find a literature review or similar from a non-ideological source. Just throwing out there to show that I've heard it's opposed from economists from a broad spectrum, not just free marketeers

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scar the 1
09/16/19 11:15:14 AM
#36:


Balrog0 posted...
FWIW I'm not an expert on rent control and I've found it difficult to find a literature review or similar from a non-ideological source. Just throwing out there to show that I've heard it's opposed from economists from a broad spectrum, not just free marketeers

Oh yeah I know it's a tricky issue. But from where I'm standing I think we can see quite clearly that market rates lead to really high rents and that's not good
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Hanky_Bannister
09/16/19 11:16:41 AM
#37:


this is a pathetic topic
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creativerealms
09/16/19 11:18:39 AM
#38:


But California is one of the richest states.

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#39
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divot1338
09/16/19 11:24:34 AM
#40:


From wikipedia
In 2017, the lowest poverty rate was in New Hampshire, and the highest poverty rate was in American Samoa (the highest poverty rate among the states was in Mississippi).

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Balrog0
09/16/19 11:24:47 AM
#41:


creativerealms posted...
But California is one of the richest states.


Yes, but it consistently has the highest poverty rate if you use the Supplemental Poverty Measure, because the SPM includes things like housing costs in setting the poverty threshold

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divot1338
09/16/19 11:42:03 AM
#42:


Balrog0 posted...
creativerealms posted...
But California is one of the richest states.


Yes, but it consistently has the highest poverty rate if you use the Supplemental Poverty Measure, because the SPM includes things like housing costs in setting the poverty threshold

Consistently since 2011 when it was first used you mean.

The idea that Mississippi gets a bump up because of its low cost of living is questionable given that you still have to live in the most backwards state i. the country.

And to rank California lower because its expensive doesnt really pass the smell test when youre averaging such a huge population. Particularly when you get to live in a place with better everything than Mississippi.

What a bunch of bullshit.
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Questionmarktarius
09/16/19 11:46:02 AM
#43:


If anything, rent controls have the net effect of ludicrous gentrification.
Old slums get "renovated" into luxury condos, mid-tier housing plain vanishes, and rent-controlled low-end units slowly disappear by attrition.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/how-rent-control-drives-out-affordable-housing
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Balrog0
09/16/19 11:47:53 AM
#44:


divot1338 posted...
Consistently since 2011 when it was first used you mean.


Is 7 years not consistently enough for you or something?

divot1338 posted...
The idea that Mississippi gets a bump up because of its low cost of living is questionable given that you still have to live in the most backwards state i. the country.


I mean, typically liberals and/or leftists push for conceptualizing poverty more holistically than the official poverty measure, which is just based on food costs 55 years ago.

divot1338 posted...
And to rank California lower because its expensive doesnt really pass the smell test when youre averaging such a huge population. Particularly when you get to live in a place with better everything than Mississippi.

What a bunch of bullshit.


I mean all of your arguments here are just "Mississippi sucks" so maybe it is incorrect to conceptualize poverty this way but I'd like to hear an actual argument for why that's so

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#45
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divot1338
09/16/19 11:54:36 AM
#46:


Personally, it seems to try and group too much information into one ranking to give accurate information.

Because you cant equate what you get for housing in Mississippi versus California if all you do is count housing costs. The schools, jobs, everything is better in California. This number penalizes the state for the cost and ignores any of that.

And Im sure you can give us a reason to use it over the more accurate and commonly referenced straight poverty rate. Other than you just want to to troll some libs.
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Questionmarktarius
09/16/19 11:57:33 AM
#47:


divot1338 posted...
Because you cant equate what you get for housing in Mississippi versus California if all you do is count housing costs.

You can't even equate Los Angeles with Bakersfield, which is what California just did.
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kingdrake2
09/16/19 12:00:44 PM
#48:


Questionmarktarius posted...
If anything, rent controls have the net effect of ludicrous gentrification.
Old slums get "renovated" into luxury condos, mid-tier housing plain vanishes, and rent-controlled low-end units slowly disappear by attrition.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/how-rent-control-drives-out-affordable-housing


i think the town had to stop building condo's because it got so bad. there was very few rental places for tenants.

of course housing is springing up in the next town over, great area to live but bad for pokemon go.
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FrozenXylophone
09/16/19 12:00:45 PM
#49:


@DeadBankerDream posted...
But it's not the poorest state...


Has the highest poverty rate actually.

Literally #1

Numero uno

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-california-poverty-rate-20180913-htmlstory.html

It has the highest rate of poverty of any state in the country, according to new data from the U.S. Census Bureau.
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SuperShake666
09/16/19 12:01:55 PM
#50:


We have a GDP higher than the entire UK, is TC from some alternate dimension?
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