Board 8 > 3-3 is the fucking worst

(+) Yeah! (+)

3-3's cast is sneaky good, actually! I guess that's my unpopular opinion here. Everything about the case is just so over the top that I love it. The case's entire goal is just to be a total mindscrew from the very start, when we see Phoenix losing to Winston friggin' Payne in the intro.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Is that the one with the noodle cart? I haven't played these games in ages so the cases all blend together, but the noodle cart and the case with the circus stood out as indefensibly bad.

Everything after Trials and Tribulations might as well never have happened.

3-3 is the restaurant one, with the poisoned coffee.

4-2 is the noodle cart, and 2-3 is the circus, both of which are also getting slammed in this topic.
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actually I guess I can go with another unpopular opinion and say that 2-3 is semi-underrated!

Moe is horrendously bad on day 1 though, but he gets better!
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actually I guess this is as good of an excuse as any to post my case rankings and tiers (although this was from shortly after SoJ came out so it's 3 years old now and probably due to be reevaluated; I need to add Layton/PW and maybe DGS1 cases on there, too)

The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over.

1. Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4)
2. Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4)
3. Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5)
4. Turnabout Revolution (6-5)
5. Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5)

TELL. THE. TRUTH.

6. The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3)
7. The Stolen Turnabout (3-2)
8. Turnabout Samurai (1-3)
9. Turnabout Beginnings (3-4)
10. The Rite of Turnabout (6-3)
11. Turnabout Academy (5-3)
12. The Grand Turnabout (E2-5)
13. Turnabout Reclaimed (5-6)
14. Rise from the Ashes (1-5)

Zvarri! The truth has once again been elegantly revealed to me!

15. The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2)
16. The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4)
17. Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5)
18. Recipe for Turnabout (3-3)
19. Turnabout Target (E2-1)
20. Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2)
21. Turnabout Trump (4-1)
22. Turnabout Memories (3-1)
23. Turnabout Time Traveler (6-6)

The Phoenix Wright Wax Philosophical Power Hour

24. The Magical Turnabout (6-2)
25. The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3)
26. The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4)
27. The Imprisoned Turnabout (E2-2)
28. Turnabout Sisters (1-2)
29. Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4)
30. Turnabout Succession (4-4)
31. Turnabout Big Top (2-3)
32. Turnabout Storyteller (6-4)

Wait a minute! That testimony stinks!

33. Turnabout Airlines (E1-2)
34. The First Turnabout (1-1)
35. The Foreign Turnabout (6-1)
36. Turnabout Countdown (5-1)
37. Turnabout Visitor (E1-1)

I believe the proper phrase here is, "You fail."

38. Turnabout Corner (4-2)
39. The Lost Turnabout (2-1)
40. Turnabout Serenade (4-3)
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I don't hate 2-3 but I do see why it gets hated. It has its bad moments for sure.

I do like Moe though, and feel kinda bad for him even. He's not even that bad on the first day if you realize that the writers made him deliberately unfunny. The penalties for pressing are bad though, but at least they result in funny lines from the Judge and Phoenix.
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I mean, I get that he's supposed to be unfunny on purpose, but it doesn't make some of his dialogue not cringey!

and it's not even the bad jokes as much as it is how petulant he gets when no one believes him (much like Kudo in 3-3)
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Why are people slamming 4-2 in particular? Did they delete off their minds the rest of that game? Like if we're criticizing 3-3 for toeing the suspension of disbelief line, 4-3 has to be the absolute biggest offender. It's embarrassingly stupid from the very start. A stupid defendant, some of the dumbest and most unnecessary twists ever, an absolute disregard for any kind of logic, the video... oof. 4-4 is a disgrace too and it retroactively makes 4-1 awful as well. I always thought 4-1 was overrated since it's just Hobonix being out of character and doing everything for you tbh.
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Of the 3-3 characters, Maggey and to lesser extent Kudo are bad. Armstrong is fine.

Most underrated case is probably 6-4. I seem to be the only one who likes it!
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LeonhartFour posted...

and it's not even the bad jokes as much as it is how petulant he gets when no one believes him (much like Kudo in 3-3)

This is true. I do feel bad for both of them though when it turns out they were both telling the truth and were basically bullied out of the courtroom.
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Those topics always make me feel like the entire series is trash with the exception of like..20% of the cases

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I'm about halfway through the fourth game playing the series for the first time. I have to admit, I think 3-3 is quite underrated; I actually had a really good time with that one. I honestly thought all of the cases in the third game were really good (with 3-2 probably being the weakest of the bunch in my mind, although I still genuinely liked it). I'll agree with the masses that 2-3 is pretty not-good, though.

I think my least favorite so far, though, has been 1-5, which I found super tedious, needlessly convoluted, and just overall obtuse, despite a decent storyline payoff.

UltimaterializerX posted...

1-4, 1-5, and 3-5 by themselves make it a good series. Everything else is worth slogging through for those three alone.

I am afraid to ask why you didn't include 2-4

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Nanis23 posted...

Those topics always make me feel like the entire series is trash with the exception of like..20% of the cases

Even though people have only been talking about like 3 or 4 cases
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hombad46 posted...

Inviso is talking about Danganronpa, for those who still don't get it

But Danganronpa 3 doesn't have cases. V3 on the other hand...
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Vengeful_KBM posted...

I think my least favorite so far, though, has been 1-5, which I found super tedious, needlessly convoluted, and just overall obtuse, despite a decent storyline payoff.

yup. it's rough. and being a much worse retread of 1-4 immediately after 1-4...
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1-5 combines horrible investigation scenes with excellent courtroom scenes to average out to a mid-tier case. Probably on the lower side of mid tier because the length hurts it as well.

But it's basically free, included DLC anyway (actually on the Wii it was DLC).
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1-5 had the potential to be an all-time great case, but it was too long for its own good (E-5 also suffers from this problem, but that case is hurt by its length even more) and caused continuity problems just by existing. There were also a few times in that one where it was rather difficult to know what to do next. Nowadays, it's a far cry from the times when people would debate between which of 1-4 and 1-5 was better.

Overall, the epic cases go (imo) 2-4 > 3-5 > 6-5b > 1-4 > 6-5a > 5-5 > 1-5 > playing with dog poo > 4-4.

However, 3-2, 5-3, 5-D, and 6-3 are all pretty awesome too. 3-2 and 6-3 in particular have amazing twists.
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1-5 is my favourite case in the series lul
mainly coz of Gant.

1-5 used to be my favourite as well, though it's been long enough since i've replayed the whole series that i'm not sure anymore

i'm a fan of stories that go really in-depth exploring every detail so i really like how long 1-5 is and the pacing of it and what it focuses on

it's also the only case that uses the 3-day structure properly. 1-3 and 1-4 really, really do not, they both have a strangely pointless first day where the trial would have been a psyche-lock if it was in the other games, and 1-3's third day is weirdly short, and 1-4's third day transitions to being about an entirely different case

but i really like 1-5's structure with day 1 being one crime scene, day 2 being another, and then putting it together on day 3, and i just love how dark and dramatic the whole sequence is with young ema and the blue badger and etc

i can see why it's not for everyone though

I mostly don't like 1-5 for how it completely undermines Edgeworth's development that continues into JFA.
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kevwaffles posted...

I mostly don't like 1-5 for how it completely undermines Edgeworth's development that continues into JFA.

And even though it isn't part of the main story of the first game, it can't be written of as non-canon either.
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Yeah, at least when 6-6 (or 6-D?) did basically the same thing to a much larger degree I can be pretty sure that even if the series continues they won't give a flying fuck about that case.
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1-5 is pun central after the serious intensity of 1-4. Trying to play it back to back showed how painful it was. I wanted to like Angel Starr, but seriously...shut up lunch lady.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Even though people have only been talking about like 3 or 4 cases

Well let me see
1-1 (your ranking)
1-3
2-1 (your ranking)
2-3
3-2
3-3
4-2
4-3
4-4

9 cases out of 18 of the first 4 games were considered "the worst" here in this topic by at least one person
Hell I can even count 4-1 because someone mentioned it sucked because of how Phoenix was out of character

There is also sadly a noticeable lower playrate for the 3DS games
5-4 and 6-4 should have been brought up at least a few times here

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I remember a goofy ass one with Athena and Blackquill during Spirit of Justice I think. I remember not liking that one.

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Strife2 posted...

I remember a goofy ass one with Athena and Blackquill during Spirit of Justice I think. I remember not liking that one.

That would be 6-4. Blatant filler that is only really salvaged by that one guy with multiple personalities
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https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uU87j8Y54tg/hqdefault.jpg

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Strife2 posted...

I remember a goofy ass one with Athena and Blackquill during Spirit of Justice I think. I remember not liking that one.

Low-key one of the worst cases in history, though thankfully it was short and trial-only.

Nahyuta really got boring very fast and was a massive entertainment vacuum at times. My least favourite prosecutor (and really the only one I even vaguely dislike), and this case was actually a perfect chance for a break from him and it didn't really even make much sense for him to be back for it.

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hombad46 posted...

That would be 6-4. Blatant filler that is only really salvaged by that one guy with multiple personalities

Yes. Just there to keep Athena and Blackquill as characters for future games. Given the events of the full game's ending, Athena will probably get more focus (which is fine). Since the game actually moves via age (Phoenix is around 35-40 or so), what happens to the series when he ages out?

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I really like the 3ds games btw, and think they both hold up with the original trilogy

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Strife2 posted...

what happens to the series when he ages out?

He's not going to. Since they tend to advance by one year with each game, he'll be around for another 20+ games, so at the rate they're going, he won't age out for another 75+ years.
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Ah, so they won't have to pull an Ys and just say Adol is jumping around to different adventures in x year in between timelines of each game until doomsday.

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The only one that jumped significantly more than a year was AJ, and that seems unlikely to repeat.
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Nanis23 posted...

Leonhart4 posted...

Even though people have only been talking about like 3 or 4 cases

Well let me see
1-1 (your ranking)
1-3
2-1 (your ranking)
2-3
3-2
3-3
4-2
4-3
4-4

9 cases out of 18 of the first 4 games were considered "the worst" here in this topic by at least one person
Hell I can even count 4-1 because someone mentioned it sucked because of how Phoenix was out of character

There is also sadly a noticeable lower playrate for the 3DS games
5-4 and 6-4 should have been brought up at least a few times here

I didn't count 1-1 as a bad case! I'm not even sure I'd consider 2-1 a bad case outside of Wellington. It has its own charms. The first day of 4-2 and most of 4-3 are the only parts of the games I dread replaying, but even those cases have things I like!

Also, E1-5's biggest problem isn't necessarily its length. It's that it very clearly hits a climax when you catch the bad guy you've spent the entire case chasing, and then it goes on for another few hours. It overstays its welcome something fierce.
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Leonhart4 posted...

E1-5's biggest problem isn't necessarily its length. It's that it very clearly hits a climax when you catch the bad guy you've spent the entire case chasing, and then it goes on for another few hours. It overstays its welcome something fierce.

That's what I was referring to. Bringing down Big Bad takes three times as long as it should, which in turn makes it "COME ON ALREADY!" instead of "AWW YEAH, TAKE THAT!"

It's the length of the most important part that makes the case itself way longer than it ever should've been.
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I recently replayed the Trilogy on Switch and I don't remember anything being bad in T&T..... But I did have text skipping enabled from the start (every game should have this available in the future) so I skipped anything I found stupid or a waste of time >_>

Mia's forced save in 1-2 is incredibly stupid and kills the case for me, and everything except 2-4 is bad in JFA. 1-1 gets a pass for being the first of the series, and it's so short that even if I didn't like it, it's over before I can get annoyed anyway.

4-3 is still by far the worst of the series.
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I mean, E1-5 isn't a super long case by epic case standards. It needed better pacing more than anything else.
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4-2 worst thing is that Mr Hat thing
I was so hyped when Trucy was kidnapped, only to turn out it was a fucking stupid magic trick. Probably the worst cop out in the whole series. If it was actually leading to some stuff like 2-4 it could have been cool

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Leonhart4 posted...

I mean, E1-5 isn't a super long case by epic case standards. It needed better pacing more than anything else.

Wasn't it the longest text in terms of text when you did your project?

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oh hey an excuse for me to post another list

Total lines by case:

6-5 - 6722
2-4 - 5946
1-5 - 5913
3-5 - 5815
E1-5 - 4831
E2-5 - 4777
4-3 - 4494
3-2 - 4151
3-3 - 4063
6-3 - 3979
E2-3 - 3959
4-4 - 3952
E2-2 - 3936
2-3 - 3884
5-2 - 3750
5-6 - 3616
4-2 - 3468
1-4 - 3466
5-3 - 3202
6-6 - 3134
2-2 - 3119
6-2 - 2987
E1-4 - 2935
E2-4 - 2868
1-3 - 2741
5-5 - 2550
E1-3 - 2412
5-4 - 2018
E1-2 - 1995
E2-1 - 1923
1-2 - 1773
6-4 - 1650
4-1 - 1421
6-1 - 1362
3-4 - 1225
3-1 - 1167
5-1 - 1102
E1-1 - 1039
2-1 - 899
4-0 - 679
1-1 - 389

So it's 1000 lines behind the 4 biggest ones.

I'm always astounded by 4-3's line count. It makes me think I must have counted wrong.
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I'm pretty shocked 2-4 is that high. It doesn't feel as long as the other ones that are on its tier.
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It's longer than every case except for 6-5, E2-5, and 3-5.
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Maybe it's just because I love it so so so much that it feels shorter than it is.
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Update: I didn't mind 4-2 that much, although the Mr. Hat thing was bad and there were definitely a few sections that were a bit annoying to get through. I'm towards the end of 4-3 and it's... pretty significantly worse.

4-3 has a good villain, plus Klavier is great in it and that singer whose name is escaping ne (Lanoire or something?) is good too. And analyzing the song or whatever isn't that bad. It has problems for sure but it isn't even close to the worst case.
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Lamiroir is low key kinda bad. I like her less and less every time I replay 4-3.

Daryan is great though.
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Lamiroir is so bad, Daryan is bad, Machi is the literal WORST

3-3 is decent! Kudo kind of sucks but his theme makes up for it. Like every case in the original trilogy it's better with text skip.