Board 8 > In Defense of Octopath Traveler's Story (spoilers for OT, CT, and FFVI)

(+) Yeah! (+)

DISCLAIMER: I'm aware at the outset that this is going to be long-winded and unconvincing to some, so I don't mind the push back. Also it's six in the morning and I woke up with this post in my head so here goes. END DISCLAIMER

"the most disappointing game of 2018"

"It started out promising, but turned to shit after"

"fantastic gameplay, crap story

I have repeatedly claimed that Octopath Traveler was my favorite game of 2018, beating out titles like RDR2, Smash Bros, Celeste, Spider-Man, and God of War. Since OT was released last July, I've played through the game twice on the Switch, totaling around 200 hours total playtime. Most people would agree with me when I say that the battle system, music, graphical style, and overall presentation are stellar examples how to update an "old-school" jrpg updated to the contemporary context of videogames. However, the most common complaint I see on this board and on the game's message board is it's story.

When I have read a post like one of the above complaining about the story, I have put up a meager comment about people "complaining about getting what they asked for" - in this case being "old-school storytelling." This isn't quite what I mean though. Hence, this long-winded post about why I believe Octopath Traveler's story succeeds.

(continued)

The most common complaints leveled against the game are:

1. No over-arching narrative
2. Not enough party interaction
3. All the stories are the same

All of these criticisms can be addressed through a simple re-orientation of what one expects when it comes to video game narratives. I'll get to this later. First, I want to make it clear that the first critique is flat-out false. There is a subtle overarching narrative that is surprisingly emotional and epic. That being said, I will admit that Octopath's overarching narrative is technically relegated to the "post-game" and is so hard to activate that most players will not figure out how to activate the quest without consulting the internet. I will also admit that the extra dungeon is... well, not a dungeon really.

One more thing about the over-arching narrative; I believe many are unsatisfied due to their own expectations. While this game does have an overarching lore, Octopath isn't really about huge world-ending cataclysms in the way most jrpg's are. The developers are out to tell smaller, more personal stories that intertwine through their similarity. The story works by seeing how separate individuals respond to similar conflicts/choices (again, more on this later).

Now, when I said earlier that all of the criticisms can be addressed through a "re-orientation," here's what I mean. Octopath, and by extension the early Square Enix 16-bit rpg's it emulates, are more like comics/graphic novels than movies. Video game storytelling, as a genre, has by and large become more cinematic as graphics have improved, but Octopath stays true to its roots by cutting up the story into sections and allowing the player to "fill in" the gaps. Players here might initially complain - "a game I paid 60 dollars for shouldn't require me to tell my own story." I find this complaint banal and short-sighted, as the best stories are those that compel their viewers/listeners/readers to invest their imagination into.

In "Understanding Comics," Scott McCloud talks about panel transitions and "the gutter" - the space between panels, as places that compel readers to imagine what happens. In that way, the player/reader becomes co-author to the story. For example, if one panel features a person being chased by a second person with an axe, while the next panel features a shot of the moon and EEEYYAAAAAA in big spooky letters, readers imagine what has happened: "the reader is the one that swings the axe."

Octopath does the same sort of thing.

(continued)

tag to read later

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I'm going to diverge here for a second to talk about Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger. Critical consensus from fans and critics alike speak to these jrpg's being monumental games. If you dislike these games, then I completely understand why you don't like Octopath and you can quit reading now (if you ever started to begin with). However, many of the people who have criticized Octopath love FFVI and CT, even though they are similar. Now, I'm not saying that Octopath is better or even as good as these games, but again... they work the same way.

Here are some of my favorite parts about FFVI narrative:

- Sabin's one-sided crush on Celes
- The "old gang" (Sabin, Shadow, and Gau) going to rescue Cyan from his dream
- Cyan breaking down in the Underground Castle
- Relm going to confront Ultros at the coliseum
- Strago using Life 3 to figure out how to beat the Magic Master at the top of the Cult Tower

Attentive readers will notice that none of this stuff "actually" happened. But in my mind they absolutely did. And in many ways, these "head canon" scenes are much better left in my imagination than if they were actually put in the game's coding itself. The world of ruin gives players the freedom to basically craft the game's second half. You can head straight to Kefka's Tower after getting the airship. Or, if you're like me, you can imagine how you would adapt this game into an episodic tv show, thinking up side stories. FFVI''s story is able to become a different narrative in the minds of each individual player.

This same principle applies in CT. Ask yourself why you choose the characters you do. For example, why do I always choose Frog and Marle to come with me to Magus's castle, even though that's not an optimal party? Because they're the characters with the most emotional investment. Why do I take Ayla with me to Zeal? Because it makes sense that she would be there if we end up there directly after being in the prehistoric.

(to be concluded)

Back to Octopath now.

The way FFVI and CT work is that they don't abandon narrative; rather they start out with a critical conflict and then give the player a handful of well-developed characters and a narrative skeleton on which to build. CT has Marle getting sucked into the past and the discovery of Lavos. FFVI has Terra on the run and the party reuniting to fight Kefka. Octopath admittedly doesn't have anything like this. Instead it has 8 separate, smaller, more personal crises that propel individual journeys. The game here expects players to provide their own motivations for the group traveling together. Here is where, I believe, most people begin to take issue with the story.

However, the game provides attentive players with plenty of motivations aside from the tried and true "you need more party members so you don't die" strategy. Players just have to swing the axe themselves.

Primrose wants to use Alfyn for her own ends, before ultimately becoming actual friends.
Therion similarly wants to steal whatever ultimate treasure Tressa finds
Alfyn comes across a wounded H'aanit in the town tavern and helps her for free

If you didn't absolutely relish coming up with these imaginary scenarios then I truly feel sorry for you. If all early JRPG's are essentially dungeons and dragons for people with no friends then Octopath is the platonic ideal of that model. You get out what you put in. This applies for critiques 1 and 2 in particular. The "additional scenes" of party banter aren't meant to be "Tales of" esque skits... they're meant to jumpstart your imagination so you can do more of this work on your own. It's not that the party members are silent/non-existent when Primrose is betrayed in her story...it's (fill in the blank). This is not a flaw or a plot hole. This is the game inviting you to be a co-author.

The third major complaint - that all the stories are the same - is only true if you allow it to be true. How Alfyn hunts a mythical creature is bound to be different than how H'aanit would. Olberic's quest for revenge is different than Primrose's. Players are given the freedom to tackle chapters in whatever order they wish with whichever character they choose (side note: I DO think the game is flawed in that it won't allow you to change out your initial character). Now if you want to complain about the maps themselves being too similar... that's fine. That's not a story flaw, but a design one.

I think I'm done. I hope I've been convincing. Best case scenario is I get someone who wrote the game off to try it again. But if you still disagree with me that's fine too. People have different tastes and I respect that. I just wanted to speak my peace.

colliding posted...

If you dislike these games, then I completely understand why you don't like Octopath and you can quit reading now

ah fuck, but i tagged and got this far

(i like octopath and both of these games but not the characters in any of them)

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"There's a lot of story, you just have to imagine it" is certainly not a take I've ever heard before.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

"There's a lot of story, you just have to imagine it" is certainly not a take I've ever heard before.

hey I appreciate a story that makes me do most of the work
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Seems like I'd have to do some serious mental gymnastics to see what you see. I'm hopeful that a sequel can pull off a better story.
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LeonhartFour posted...

TotallyNotMI posted...

"There's a lot of story, you just have to imagine it" is certainly not a take I've ever heard before.

hey I appreciate a story that makes me do most of the work

Can we have a game where there's no game, you just have to imagine you're playing it?

"Wow, I can't believe how amazing that gameplay sequence was that I just pictured in my head. This might be the best game ever!"
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TheRock1525 posted...

Can we have a game where there's no game, you just have to imagine you're playing it?

"Wow, I can't believe how amazing that gameplay sequence was that I just pictured in my head. This might be the best game ever!"

I mean, it would be impossible to be disappointed

it will have everything you want
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still waiting for a good sale on it
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some pretty cynical responses here so far, as expected. oh well! I'm sorry the game wasn't satisfying for you. Also this:

TotallyNotMI posted...

"There's a lot of story, you just have to imagine it" is certainly not a take I've ever heard before.

isn't what I'm saying. I'm not saying "there's a lot of story." I'm saying that what is there inspires people to fill in the blanks and invites players to co-write the story. Again, if you want a story handed to you, like a film, then sure, it doesn't do that. you can argue that this inherently makes it bad or lacking, but that's not my approach.

this doesn't excuse any and all games with "bad stories." there are games that take this approach and fail (I'm thinking of Saga Frontier in particular).

finally, there are a lot of games that force feed players rigidly construed bad or boring stories - I'd rather have a spartan approach that encourages imagination than something like this.

This sounds more like Live A Live. Im surprised that you didnt bring that up at all. Im wondering if anyone else in this topic has played Live A Live, whether they like it, and how they think it compares.

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For example, why do I always choose Frog and Marle to come with me to Magus's castle, even though that's not an optimal party?

pretty sure Marle and Frog is the optimal party for most of that dungeon. Ice Water is really good!
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The optimal team always includes Lucca

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that was really interesting. thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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The optimal team is almost always Crono/Lucca/Frog
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Hbthebattle posted...

The optimal team is almost always Crono/Lucca/Frog

Swap out Frog for Robo and we have a deal.

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colliding posted...

Attentive readers will notice that none of this stuff "actually" happened. But in my mind they absolutely did. And in many ways, these "head canon" scenes are much better left in my imagination than if they were actually put in the game's coding itself. The world of ruin gives players the freedom to basically craft the game's second half. You can head straight to Kefka's Tower after getting the airship. Or, if you're like me, you can imagine how you would adapt this game into an episodic tv show, thinking up side stories. FFVI''s story is able to become a different narrative in the minds of each individual player.

I didn't actually read your whole post yet, mostly because I haven't played OT, but I really agree with this and it's what turned my opinion around on FFVI a lot. Really enjoy WoR.
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I haven't tried octo path.

I think that stuff works, but there needs to be a strong foundation of character dynamics to make it work. This is why CT and (particularly) ff6 work. You need those scenes where the characters bounce off of each other and progress/ detail their relationships before just imagining them on your own is good enough

Those little tidbits of conversation when you brought a particular party combination to a town or dungeon were always worth their weight

If octo path does this then it's all good
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Yeah, all the chapters in Octopath have little conversations between the party members. They're optional, but they're neat little development scenes.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Yeah, all the chapters in Octopath have little conversations between the party members. They're optional, but they're neat little development scenes.

This isn't strictly true. You dont get the one-on-one banter scenes until you're in a Chapter 2, which for most players won't be until they're nine chapters into the game. More egregious is that the party chats with 3 or more party members don't unlock until you finish your main story, which is crazy late to really have any idea what the vibe of your party is like.

I do see the merit in leaving room to write your own stories - my girlfriend is super plugged in to the Octopath fandom, which has TONS of fan art and fan fiction for exactly the reasons outlined in this topic. That said, I feel like they fumbled the approach and left too much to the imagination for the average player. Something like FF6, as has been discussed here, hits way closer to the mark by giving you an idea of how these people interact and then setting you free to shape your own stories.
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In a serious response, I do enjoy stories that encourage you to read between the lines and fill in the blanks for yourself. I used to write fanfiction when I was a teenager, so I get that feeling. It's one of the things I love about something like FFVIII or Haruhi Suzumiya in particular. That being said, there has to be a balance between what they give you and what they encourage you to imagine for yourself.
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Yeah,I wouldn't disagree with that, Shake. I liked OT, but it could've been a lot better. That said, I think they could make a great game with the current format too. The repetitiveness of the chapters was a bigger negative to me than the lack of party interaction.
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It wasn't the "story" per se that made me quit octopath 8 hours in. It was the absolutely embarrassing dialogue.

The story would have to be really unique and compelling for me to overlook what was a painfully written game.
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And yes, as others have noted, character chemistry can go a long way in making up for a weak story and even dialogue to an extent. It's probably the main reason Tales of Symphonia actually worked.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

It wasn't the "story" per se that made me quit octopath 8 hours in. It was the absolutely embarrassing dialogue.

The story would have to be really unique and compelling for me to overlook what was a painfully written game.

whaten? you didn't liken the dialogue?

Letten my arrow flyeth true
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augh poorly done middle English is always so painful
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It's weird since her dialogue's so normal in Japanese. She's a large part of the reason I kept the voice Japanese, honestly.
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I turned off the voice acting entirely
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Hot take about Octopath:

The battle system is also not as amazing as everyone said
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I liked the battle system a lot except for the super bosses. High end play is where these systems are supposed to shine but here you have a whole game of total freedom culminating in 5 fights that, at least to me, felt like they demanded you default to the dominant strategy of skilling everyone for overhealing and damage cap breaking.
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Eh, the final boss was the only one that required that strategy. The others can all be defeated by a wide variety of tactics easily enough.
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For the Original poster. Have you played Legend of Mana. Its another game where the full story is more subtle than most games. The game is almost framed as if you are creating the world (well more like rebuilding it) Seems like something you would like.
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What I'm hearing is that you also think that Octopath's story sucks and that it's way worse than sitting in a white walled room for eternity.
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My only major disappointment was the lack of character reactions mostly with said final secret boss
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htaeD posted...

My only major disappointment was the lack of character reactions mostly with said final secret boss

Lmfao seriously? The game just ends with defeating the final boss and it having no bearing on the characters?
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htaeD posted...

My only major disappointment was the lack of character reactions mostly with said final secret boss

doesn't stop people from loving final fantasy 7

colliding posted...

htaeD posted...

My only major disappointment was the lack of character reactions mostly with said final secret boss

doesn't stop people from loving final fantasy 7

VII has way way way way more party interactions than Octopath.
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I'm just saying it's "post final boss" stuff is almost more disappointing than octopath's considering that you're right, the game does provide a lot of really good party interactions up to that point

FF7, like most games, gives you enough of an idea of how its characters feel about the main story for you to get a pretty good sense of how their victory feels for them even if you don't see much. In Octopath, the characters never even really acknowledge the existence of the overarching story beyond its role in Ophilia's story.
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