Board 8 > Avengers Mafia Post Game.

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Lopen
05/29/19 3:07:56 PM
#151:


turbopuns3 posted...
Lopen posted...
turbopuns3 posted...
No, being an outsider doesn't make all your observations invalid, but in this particular case I think it does.


I think you're just bad with criticism in general tbh given you do this every time!


It's also true that armchair mafia is a common fallacy people make so /shrug


It's also true armchair mafia is an easy defense mechanism for objectively bad play
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turbopuns3
05/29/19 3:08:18 PM
#152:


Yeah I had several missteps this game.

Tange was one. Waiting too late into Day 2 to try to get shit done was another.
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turbopuns3
05/29/19 3:08:41 PM
#153:


Lopen posted...
objectively bad play


*eyeroll*

ok bye Lopen
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Corrik7
05/29/19 3:09:11 PM
#154:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Leafeon13N posted...
UltimaterializerX posted...
Corrik also played OUT OF HIS MIND. It was a pleasure being his teammate.


Han and i both left day 1 having said corrik was scum and it got ignored.

Catching scum and getting votes are not the same skill.

Yeah, they said I was scum for it because I was linking to them as scum via you. Not a single of the 2 ran some lynch on me day 1.

They suspected because of my arguments on them tho.
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:09:33 PM
#155:


If you are wondering, cam was the one that angered me most this game.

He had tange in his town pile then lynched him anyway. And he was the one most insistent on scum neighbor after I'd said repeatedly b8 meta is town town. He was too stuck on neighbors being scum to do anything productive.
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Corrik7
05/29/19 3:09:53 PM
#156:


Tange did nothing wrong. Sticking to that. Cuz he didn't sametime claim with someone who was under vote pressure at the end of day 1? Who cares!
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:11:31 PM
#157:


Corrik7 posted...
Tange did nothing wrong. Sticking to that. Cuz he didn't sametime claim with someone who was under vote pressure at the end of day 1? Who cares!


Tanges move was kind of him being a dick but it wasn't scummy in the slightest. Hell i dont think anyone even called him scum when they voted.
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Shaduln
05/29/19 3:12:28 PM
#158:


Not lynching Ulti D1 when he claimed scum was really dumb for the record.

That's all I've got.
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:13:42 PM
#159:


Crescent-Moon posted...

Tange's lynch was totally a punishment for acting in bad faith as opposed to a genuine scumhunt.
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Lopen
05/29/19 3:13:51 PM
#160:


Funny thing is I'm not saying your play was objectively bad. In fact I actually think the play worked so it was fine.

I'm saying an observer is more likely to be objective when discussing play because they have no skin in the fight.

Keep bein max defensive though bro that's how you get better
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:13:56 PM
#161:


Shaduln posted...
Not lynching Ulti D1 when he claimed scum was really dumb for the record.

That's all I've got.


Puns even claimed a second flavor of present thanos not being part of the town.
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:14:20 PM
#162:


Leafeon13N posted...
If you are wondering, cam was the one that angered me most this game.

He had tange in his town pile then lynched him anyway. And he was the one most insistent on scum neighbor after I'd said repeatedly b8 meta is town town. He was too stuck on neighbors being scum to do anything productive.

Cam was anti town for most of the game and a good asset to the scumteam.
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:14:28 PM
#163:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Crescent-Moon posted...

Tange's lynch was totally a punishment for acting in bad faith as opposed to a genuine scumhunt.


This is never a reason to lynch anyone.
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TheSultanOfSlam
05/29/19 3:15:17 PM
#164:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Leafeon13N posted...
If you are wondering, cam was the one that angered me most this game.

He had tange in his town pile then lynched him anyway. And he was the one most insistent on scum neighbor after I'd said repeatedly b8 meta is town town. He was too stuck on neighbors being scum to do anything productive.

Cam was anti town for most of the game and a good asset to the scumteam.


I agree lol i wish i would have just left it alone though it really cost me from focusing on the others i thought where scum honestly
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:16:30 PM
#165:


Leafeon13N posted...
Crescent-Moon posted...
Crescent-Moon posted...

Tange's lynch was totally a punishment for acting in bad faith as opposed to a genuine scumhunt.


This is never a reason to lynch anyone.

Do you see me saying it is? That lynch was objectively one of the worst I've ever witnessed.
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:17:51 PM
#166:


You said it was punishment, which i assume implied it was justified.
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TheSultanOfSlam
05/29/19 3:18:43 PM
#167:


Yeah the tange vote was definitely not a good idea i know my reasoning was him being kind of a dick more so then thinking he was scum...
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:19:36 PM
#168:


Also lynching neighbors should always be at the call of the neighbors themselves provided both are still alive.

They never should be on the table unless you truly think BOTH are scum. Barring scans of course.
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Corrik7
05/29/19 3:19:52 PM
#169:


idk how it even was a dick move. He got the person who you all wanted to claim under pressure to claim faster instead of dragging it out and stagnating his claiming. If anything, pat on the back, Tange, for saving town time and getting the claim off the dude!
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Corrik7
05/29/19 3:21:36 PM
#170:


And as many people pointed out day 2. HB was the one who looked bad for it. STC is not something that happens under duress from a position of weakness. It's something that happens from two relatively unpressured players / in a scanning situation. HB was coming off as wanting to out a role before he possibly bit it.
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turbopuns3
05/29/19 3:22:15 PM
#171:


Lopen posted...
Funny thing is I'm not saying your play was objectively bad. In fact I actually think the play worked so it was fine.


well the last time it happened, you came into the topic and were shitting on Ulti because he'd openly claimed that he was mafia during the game. You said that was objectively bad and there could never be a scenario where openly claiming mafia was a net positive for the mafia team.

Well, Mafia won that game. Now here in this post game you're saying "if it worked, it wasn't wrong" which is totally opposite from what you said before. But the common denominator is you stirring the pot in post game even if you completely flip your logic to do so.

Maybe I'm a little defensive and maybe you just like to criticize people. Either way I really don't want to poison the well any further with this conversation because it's definitely borderline toxic while bringing nothing positive to the table.
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:22:23 PM
#172:


Leafeon13N posted...
You said it was punishment, which i assume implied it was justified.

Lynching someone out of spite is never justified. I had this premise right the first game I ever played.

Ulti spent that entire game trying to make me quit and I tossed a swing vote on to scum RB Dowolf day instead of him despite wanting him out of the game by any means necessary.

It's not hard to avoid spite voting. I think Tange got spite voted.
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Camarija
05/29/19 3:22:37 PM
#173:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Leafeon13N posted...
If you are wondering, cam was the one that angered me most this game.

He had tange in his town pile then lynched him anyway. And he was the one most insistent on scum neighbor after I'd said repeatedly b8 meta is town town. He was too stuck on neighbors being scum to do anything productive.

Cam was anti town for most of the game and a good asset to the scumteam.


K

thanks for all the fish!
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TheSultanOfSlam
05/29/19 3:22:43 PM
#174:


Corrik7 posted...
And as many people pointed out day 2. HB was the one who looked bad for it. STC is not something that happens under duress from a position of weakness. It's something that happens from two relatively unpressured players / in a scanning situation. HB was coming off as wanting to out a role before he possibly bit it.


Another thing i wasnt proud of i should have kept pushing it but this game i think was a good learning experience for me if nothing wlse
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Tirofog
05/29/19 3:24:20 PM
#175:


There was definitely a post that Crescent made that randomly mentioned "discord" in the middle that I'm surprised no one else caught (assuming this was a message to the scum team to check Discord).

This was a fun game to read through, GG all.
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:24:35 PM
#176:


Camarija posted...
Crescent-Moon posted...
Leafeon13N posted...
If you are wondering, cam was the one that angered me most this game.

He had tange in his town pile then lynched him anyway. And he was the one most insistent on scum neighbor after I'd said repeatedly b8 meta is town town. He was too stuck on neighbors being scum to do anything productive.

Cam was anti town for most of the game and a good asset to the scumteam.


K

thanks for all the fish!

Fish!?

Where
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Lopen
05/29/19 3:25:18 PM
#177:


Something "working" doesn't always mean it was a good play. Sometimes it just means the game was won in spite of a poor play. Like in Baseball you don't say the starter had a good game if he gave up 8 runs in the first just cause the other pitcher gave up 10 over 5 and lost the game

As I understand it you did not actually cause any harm to your team so in theory you could say you read the room right, as opposed to a scum claim which would in any circumstance cause harm
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:25:23 PM
#178:


Tirofog posted...
There was definitely a post that Crescent made that randomly mentioned "discord" in the middle that I'm surprised no one else caught (assuming this was a message to the scum team to check Discord).

This was a fun game to read through, GG all.

Dual Destinies is what put that word in my head and if someone had tried I have just said so.
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:26:58 PM
#179:


Corrik7 posted...
idk how it even was a dick move. He got the person who you all wanted to claim under pressure to claim faster instead of dragging it out and stagnating his claiming. If anything, pat on the back, Tange, for saving town time and getting the claim off the dude!

You know my policy. Being a dick can be an effective play as long as you never cross the line.
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Leafeon13N
05/29/19 3:28:07 PM
#180:


Tirofog posted...
There was definitely a post that Crescent made that randomly mentioned "discord" in the middle that I'm surprised no one else caught (assuming this was a message to the scum team to check Discord).

This was a fun game to read through, GG all.


I saw that as well wasn't sure if it was intentional or not thought they might want to organize hammer.
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Corrik7
05/29/19 3:31:01 PM
#181:


Do you have any idea how hard it is to not accidentally post in game when ur on a discord and this in both dark themes.
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:33:12 PM
#182:


Just to confirm I would never do that in the topic when it's easy enough just to highlight people on Discord itself.
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turbopuns3
05/29/19 3:41:10 PM
#183:


Lopen posted...
Something "working" doesn't always mean it was a good play. Sometimes it just means the game was won in spite of a poor play. Like in Baseball you don't say the starter had a good game if he gave up 8 runs in the first just cause the other pitcher gave up 10 over 5 and lost the game

As I understand it you did not actually cause any harm to your team so in theory you could say you read the room right, as opposed to a scum claim which would in any circumstance cause harm


You might as well say a sacrifice fly is not a good play because getting an out is technically always causing your team harm. But sometimes you get an out on purpose so that another player can score a run. Claiming mafia can be the same thing.
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Crescent-Moon
05/29/19 3:41:12 PM
#184:


Oh well break's over, guess I will find the fish later
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Lopen
05/29/19 3:46:20 PM
#185:


Claiming mafia is striking out bunting foul and claiming you won the game when the batter behind you hits a double to get that guy on first scoring anyway
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Corrik7
05/29/19 3:48:19 PM
#186:


Lopen's my boy, but didn't you prove your aimchairing did not translate to actual mafia games you played in?
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#187
Post #187 was unavailable or deleted.
#188
Post #188 was unavailable or deleted.
neonreaper
05/29/19 3:56:11 PM
#189:


uninformed observer:
1. Neighbors instead of Masons seemed to take up a lot of town's air. Brutal for town that the game had so much anti-town alignment obfuscation. I was so confused because puns and sultan were pretty much obvtown but it seemed like one of them HAD to be scum.

2. The Thanos claim was a page out of the Sir Chris playbook - fakeclaim miller exactly how you'd claim miller, but do it in a game with no millers. I've been wrecked by this so I had some bias against Ulti and assumed he was bussing himself for Corrik. I imagine if I hadn't been in such a game before I would have been a bit bamboozled, admittedly.

3. Scum totally drove in the correct lanes and avoided a lot of serious pressure. There was a bit of harmony in gameflow around the IGCD mechanic that really should be appreciated - Corrik saying to lynch scum, Scare talking mechanics, Ulti talking emotions, all (even Corrik) speaking to the inevitability of the IGCD lynch.

4. It looked like the Sultan/Carm stuff was one of those situations where Sultan tried to tell Carm that Carm was scum. It's one of those anti-patterns town can get into. Make your case, apply pressure, and analyze or vote. Nobody is gonna win an argument like that, so decide what your end goal is.

anyway
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DoubleTangicide
05/29/19 4:00:23 PM
#190:


For everyone that voted on me lying about STC and that it was a dick move

Id like to point out HB was lying about his claim too

So fuck that line of thinking

Im not saying I knew it at the time, and thats why I did it, but lynching me for not being truthful on a STC was stupid

And Im really pissed no one gave HB a second look after that

As odd-night commuter, I was trying to draw a scum shot night 1
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UnderUrMattress
05/29/19 4:05:49 PM
#191:


Oh I lost
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turbopuns3
05/29/19 4:06:33 PM
#192:


I want to be perfectly clear in saying, my vote of Tange had nothing to do with the reasoning of "that was a dick move" or "it's against the 'code'" or whatever

Mine was just straight up silly throwing caution to the wind because I hadn't played mafia in a long time and I didn't have strong feelings about any particular lynch

Which I recognize was not wise. I'll take it more seriously next time.

That said, Tange if you were actually legit the type of town power that scum would want to shoot, I don't think you would have behaved the way you did, so your stunt was distracting at best and self-defeating at worst.
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UnderUrMattress
05/29/19 4:09:06 PM
#193:


Well my vote ended on scum all 3 days

Town mvp here yayyy
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turbopuns3
05/29/19 4:24:35 PM
#194:


Lopen posted...
Claiming mafia is striking out bunting foul and claiming you won the game when the batter behind you hits a double to get that guy on first scoring anyway


I don't want to sound like a jerk but this comparison indicates a narrow view of the game of mafia. Giving oneself up can serve as a distraction, it can be used to misdirect town, cause town to start to relax too soon, prove a scum buddy was correct and thus help them gain town's favor, stifle discussion if town was starting to pick up on a different buddy, and an endless list of other potential advantages. Sometimes your team's best avenue to victory is to set up a single member to look golden, and claiming mafia can assist in that.
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Hbthebattle
05/29/19 4:26:23 PM
#195:


Id say Puns was town MVP, he was definitely gonna be the one we tried to get rid of N3 if we didnt have a chance to end the game there
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UnderUrMattress
05/29/19 4:29:20 PM
#196:


I'm joking I played terribly
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ScareChan
05/29/19 4:32:18 PM
#197:


turbopuns3 posted...
Lopen posted...
Claiming mafia is striking out bunting foul and claiming you won the game when the batter behind you hits a double to get that guy on first scoring anyway


I don't want to sound like a jerk but this comparison indicates a narrow view of the game of mafia. Giving oneself up can serve as a distraction, it can be used to misdirect town, cause town to start to relax too soon, prove a scum buddy was correct and thus help them gain town's favor, stifle discussion if town was starting to pick up on a different buddy, and an endless list of other potential advantages. Sometimes your team's best avenue to victory is to set up a single member to look golden, and claiming mafia can assist in that.


I did the self sac play against han a few games ago because it ended up causing my whole team to look good after it resolved.

There's never a strategy too outlandish
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Lopen
05/29/19 4:46:10 PM
#198:


You can claim anything causes anything in mafia, but it's not always true. A play leading to a desirable result doesn't always mean you had a hand in it. There are better ways to help exonerate scumbuddies than just claiming mafia.

To think otherwise, that every play you make that works out was the best or even necessarily a good play, to me, is sign of a narrow minded (and frankly, conceited) view of mafia.
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ScareChan
05/29/19 4:48:30 PM
#199:


No one is saying perfect play

But what we did do we did well this game and it worked out for the best
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eaedwards6400
05/29/19 4:51:47 PM
#200:


There are too many people claiming to know all when they weren't in the game and that's bullshit. I have 0 reason to believe you because hindsite.

Tange, yeah HB lied because it was a fake claim! Lol.
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