Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 225: Pardon Me For My War Crimes Against Good Titles

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TheRock1525
06/09/19 2:17:54 PM
#454:


I do very much appreciate the built in excuses for why a terrible, unpopular president will lose in 2020.

Not because he's terrible or unpopular.
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FakeAccount3000
06/09/19 2:39:40 PM
#455:


SmartMuffin posted...
LordoftheMorons posted...
https://twitter.com/pourmecoffee/status/1137703147852455937?s=21


This is why Trump will lose in 2020. Big tech controls almost all modern communication, and sees him and his supporters as enemies, and all he will ever do is politely ask them to stop. They won't stop. By the time of the election, they will be actively campaigning for Democrats. Pro-Democrat messaging on social media will outnumber pro-Trump messaging by at least 10:1 (and I'm not talking paid ads here).


What planet are you posting from where Trump is polite, much less to the media which he regularly calls the enemy of the people or suggests their behavior may as well be treason?
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SmartMuffin
06/09/19 2:42:26 PM
#456:


What planet are you posting from where Trump is polite


The planet where actions matter a lot, and words don't matter at all.

"The media is the enemy!" is just like "build the wall" in that his base likes to hear him say it, but when given the opportunity to actually do something, he chooses not to. He hasn't lifted a single finger to help conservatives being censored by big tech. Just like he hasn't done a thing to stop illegal immigration. Nor will he.
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Inviso
06/09/19 2:42:28 PM
#457:


SmartMuffin posted...
LordoftheMorons posted...
https://twitter.com/pourmecoffee/status/1137703147852455937?s=21


This is why Trump will lose in 2020. Big tech controls almost all modern communication, and sees him and his supporters as enemies, and all he will ever do is politely ask them to stop. They won't stop. By the time of the election, they will be actively campaigning for Democrats. Pro-Democrat messaging on social media will outnumber pro-Trump messaging by at least 10:1 (and I'm not talking paid ads here).


This post is why Trump will lose in 2020, because much like all the "this is why you lost" posts back in 2016/2017, now liberals and centrists are pissed at the constant whiny and self-victimizing of Trump supporters.
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GuessMyUserName
06/09/19 2:44:06 PM
#458:


SmartMuffin posted...
The planet where actions matter a lot, and words don't matter at all.

smartmuffin loves liars confirmed
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ChaosTonyV4
06/09/19 2:45:45 PM
#459:


Please Liberals, stop being so sure Trump will lose in 2020, for the love of god.
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GuessMyUserName
06/09/19 2:49:10 PM
#460:


yeah it's better to believe Trump can only be stopped by a moderate centrist that can only be defeated by creepy uncle joe appealing to both sides
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LordoftheMorons
06/09/19 3:12:40 PM
#461:


Conservatives arent being censored at all

Tech companies bend over backwards to excuse 90% of the ToS violations committed by conservatives because theyre terrified of being called biased for just enforcing their rules
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GuessMyUserName
06/09/19 3:15:24 PM
#462:


pretty sure if you tweet out "tear down these taxes" you're placed in a Kill on Sight list
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Peace___Frog
06/09/19 4:00:51 PM
#463:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Conservatives arent being censored at all

Tech companies bend over backwards to excuse 90% of the ToS violations committed by conservatives because theyre terrified of being called biased for just enforcing their rules

You only need to look at the YouTube disaster, or that Facebook's "fact checkers" are breitbart lite, or the fact that Twitter has nazis all over the place, to realize how stupid smuffin's fanfic is.
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Nrrr
06/09/19 4:24:09 PM
#464:


All of the power structure in place by both the government and corporations is set up to defend right wingers and it's still somehow right wingers being oppressed to them. Just like it's WASPS under attack. It's almost like right wingers don't empathize with others and are terrified at every waking moment. It has to be exhausting being such cowards.
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kevwaffles
06/09/19 5:38:22 PM
#465:


GuessMyUserName posted...
SmartMuffin posted...
The planet where actions matter a lot, and words don't matter at all.

smartmuffin loves liars confirmed

I'm more amused that he apparently missed him literally shutting down the government to try and get his wall.
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red sox 777
06/09/19 8:23:14 PM
#466:


Nrrr posted...
All of the power structure in place by both the government and corporations is set up to defend right wingers and it's still somehow right wingers being oppressed to them. Just like it's WASPS under attack. It's almost like right wingers don't empathize with others and are terrified at every waking moment. It has to be exhausting being such cowards.


This actually makes sense. People with more to lose are motivated to fear loss because they have more to lose.

If all you have is 100k, you aren't going to spend it on lobbying. 100 million? Sending the same 100k as a donation to your preferred candidate's PAC is probably a great investment.
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SmartMuffin
06/09/19 10:00:50 PM
#467:


I'm more amused that he apparently missed him literally shutting down the government to try and get his wall.


Prior to this, Republicans held both houses of Congress. He could have gotten the wall then. Why didn't he?
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Inviso
06/09/19 10:04:35 PM
#468:


SmartMuffin posted...
I'm more amused that he apparently missed him literally shutting down the government to try and get his wall.


Prior to this, Republicans held both houses of Congress. He could have gotten the wall then. Why didn't he?


Because he doesn't ACTUALLY care about the wall, except to court the votes dumbass racists who think that brown people are the cause of all problems in this country?
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SmartMuffin
06/09/19 10:10:14 PM
#469:


Because he doesn't ACTUALLY care about the wall


uh, yeah, glad we agree

similarly, he doesn't care about big tech censorship either

he allows the Dems to import millions of new voters, and allows corporations to make it illegal to publicly support him, and gee, what a shocker, this is NOT a formula for electoral success...
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red sox 777
06/09/19 11:29:50 PM
#470:


SmartMuffin posted...
Because he doesn't ACTUALLY care about the wall


uh, yeah, glad we agree

similarly, he doesn't care about big tech censorship either

he allows the Dems to import millions of new voters, and allows corporations to make it illegal to publicly support him, and gee, what a shocker, this is NOT a formula for electoral success...


Trump knows, unlike Democrats and you, that the more people see Democrats post on social media, they more they feel they need to vote against them.
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Nrrr
06/09/19 11:36:22 PM
#471:


red sox 777 posted...
Nrrr posted...
All of the power structure in place by both the government and corporations is set up to defend right wingers and it's still somehow right wingers being oppressed to them. Just like it's WASPS under attack. It's almost like right wingers don't empathize with others and are terrified at every waking moment. It has to be exhausting being such cowards.


This actually makes sense. People with more to lose are motivated to fear loss because they have more to lose.

If all you have is 100k, you aren't going to spend it on lobbying. 100 million? Sending the same 100k as a donation to your preferred candidate's PAC is probably a great investment.


I mean, I never said it didn't make sense. But it's funny how the right loves to project an image of "toughness" when their goals are usually based on fear. Of the other, of loss of wealth or status or tradition. The brave folks are people who challenge power, not who protect it.
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red sox 777
06/09/19 11:56:39 PM
#472:


Nrrr posted...
red sox 777 posted...
Nrrr posted...
All of the power structure in place by both the government and corporations is set up to defend right wingers and it's still somehow right wingers being oppressed to them. Just like it's WASPS under attack. It's almost like right wingers don't empathize with others and are terrified at every waking moment. It has to be exhausting being such cowards.


This actually makes sense. People with more to lose are motivated to fear loss because they have more to lose.

If all you have is 100k, you aren't going to spend it on lobbying. 100 million? Sending the same 100k as a donation to your preferred candidate's PAC is probably a great investment.


I mean, I never said it didn't make sense. But it's funny how the right loves to project an image of "toughness" when their goals are usually based on fear. Of the other, of loss of wealth or status or tradition. The brave folks are people who challenge power, not who protect it.


Yup yup there's been studies showing conservatism is correlated with risk aversion.

I'm pretty sure there is a similar reason for why conservatives like the term snowflake so much.
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kevwaffles
06/10/19 11:43:36 AM
#473:


SmartMuffin posted...
I'm more amused that he apparently missed him literally shutting down the government to try and get his wall.


Prior to this, Republicans held both houses of Congress. He could have gotten the wall then. Why didn't he?

Because he was too focused on destroying Obamacare despite having literally no plan in going about it. And he did that because he thought it was the more obtainable goal even then, which would have been true if handled with the least bit of finesse.
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kevwaffles
06/10/19 11:58:58 AM
#474:


Inviso posted...
SmartMuffin posted...
I'm more amused that he apparently missed him literally shutting down the government to try and get his wall.


Prior to this, Republicans held both houses of Congress. He could have gotten the wall then. Why didn't he?


Because he doesn't ACTUALLY care about the wall, except to court the votes dumbass racists who think that brown people are the cause of all problems in this country?

This is only half true. He doesn't care about a wall per se. What he does care about is looking totally and completely 100% victorious losing nothing through compromise whatsoever in anything he does. He inextricably tied getting a wall to that more than anything else, and when Ann Coulter pointed out that he was going to lose his last obvious chance at that he took drastic steps to get it.
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 12:20:09 PM
#475:


https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1138108990972473345

Awful
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red sox 777
06/10/19 3:18:36 PM
#476:


Ruth Bader Ginsburg is signaling the Supreme Court will rule in favor of partisan gerrymandering and putting a citizenship question on the census - says we should expect a bunch of 5-4 decisions this term, and there has been a lot of unanimity/lopsided margins in the voting so far.
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Nelson_Mandela
06/10/19 3:19:52 PM
#477:


red sox 777 posted...
putting a citizenship question on the census

Good. The fact that this is being challenged is ludicrous.
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red sox 777
06/10/19 3:25:24 PM
#478:


There is an interesting question whether illegal immigrants should count for purposes of determining representation. Foreign tourists don't count, same with people on business trips. Assuming the Supreme Court says you can ask about immigration status, this would probably be the next issue.
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 3:26:12 PM
#479:


A citizenship question will cause an undercount, and it's abundantly clear that said undercount is the explicit purpose of adding the question. Everyone who's defending this can fuck off.
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Xeybozn
06/10/19 3:41:51 PM
#480:


red sox 777 posted...
There is an interesting question whether illegal immigrants should count for purposes of determining representation.


"Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed."

...Yeah, I think the 14th Amendment is pretty clear on that point. Unless illegal immigrants aren't "persons", of course. Which they could do, but I feel like treating illegal immigrants as non-humans will lead to some unexpected issues.
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 3:45:47 PM
#481:


https://twitter.com/bethreinhard/status/1138026649025437696

Absolutely disgusting
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red sox 777
06/10/19 4:03:26 PM
#482:


Xeybozn posted...
red sox 777 posted...
There is an interesting question whether illegal immigrants should count for purposes of determining representation.


"Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed."

...Yeah, I think the 14th Amendment is pretty clear on that point. Unless illegal immigrants aren't "persons", of course. Which they could do, but I feel like treating illegal immigrants as non-humans will lead to some unexpected issues.


Notice that it specifically excludes "Indians not taxed." It has also been held not to include tourists and other people who are not residents. I think there's a reasonable case that illegal immigrants are not residents.
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red sox 777
06/10/19 4:18:08 PM
#483:


Here's a hypothetical: Suppose the US government issued tourist visas to every illegal immigrant in the country. That would make them part of a class that there is no dispute is not counted for purposes of determining representation in Congress. So how could the tourist visa, giving them lawful status, make them count less?
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Nelson_Mandela
06/10/19 4:58:47 PM
#484:


LordoftheMorons posted...
A citizenship question will cause an undercount, and it's abundantly clear that said undercount is the explicit purpose of adding the question. Everyone who's defending this can fuck off.

There's no reason to not answer the question. It's not like ICE can knock down their doors if they say they're not a citizen.
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 5:03:34 PM
#485:


Legally they can't, but can you honestly say that you're 100% confident that the Trump administration wouldn't illegally use that information? Even if they wouldn't, the fact is that it's a concern that many undocumented immigrants would have and some fraction of them would choose not to participate in the census due to that fear.
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xp1337
06/10/19 5:06:46 PM
#486:


Also, historically, the government hasn't always kept to the confidentiality of the responses. The most extreme example, of course, is using the census data for Japanese Internment.
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 5:07:48 PM
#487:


And now the Trump administration is essentially running internment camps for border crossers
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Xeybozn
06/10/19 5:11:14 PM
#488:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
It's not like ICE can knock down their doors if they say they're not a citizen.

Wait, why not? Being an illegal immigrant is illegal (obviously) and ICE is in charge of enforcing those laws. Is this just about not being allowed to literally break into immigrants homes? Couldn't ICE just wait outside then?
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 5:13:15 PM
#489:


Xeybozn posted...
Wait, why not? Being an illegal immigrant is illegal (obviously) and ICE is in charge of enforcing those laws. Is this just about not being allowed to literally break into immigrants homes? Couldn't ICE just wait outside then?

Census info isn't supposed to be shared with ICE
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red sox 777
06/10/19 5:14:26 PM
#490:


Xeybozn posted...
Nelson_Mandela posted...
It's not like ICE can knock down their doors if they say they're not a citizen.

Wait, why not? Being an illegal immigrant is illegal (obviously) and ICE is in charge of enforcing those laws. Is this just about not being allowed to literally break into immigrants homes? Couldn't ICE just wait outside then?


Not sure if there is a similar rule for the Census Bureau, but the IRS is not allowed to share tax information. This is why it doesn't violate the 5th Amendment for the IRS to require people to disclose their income from committing crimes on their tax return.
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xp1337
06/10/19 5:15:24 PM
#491:


Xeybozn posted...
Nelson_Mandela posted...
It's not like ICE can knock down their doors if they say they're not a citizen.

Wait, why not? Being an illegal immigrant is illegal (obviously) and ICE is in charge of enforcing those laws. Is this just about not being allowed to literally break into immigrants homes? Couldn't ICE just wait outside then?

Legally, the individual responses to the census are supposed to be kept confidential. So, in theory, the data/answers should never get to ICE.

However, many will likely assume the same as you and hence the undercount. Also a fear that despite the law the information will get there.

And of course, like I said, in spite of the law (they suspended the confidentiality protections), during WWII the government used the data to target Japanese Americans for internment so there is historical precedence of the government using the data in such a way.
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red sox 777
06/10/19 5:16:37 PM
#492:


Also, that's one more reason why the law saying Congress can demand citizens' tax returns should be ruled to be unconstitutional. What if Trump's tax returns show that he's earning money by accepting bribes from Russia? That would lead to prosecution, and would be an end-run around the Fifth Amendment.
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Xeybozn
06/10/19 5:25:16 PM
#493:


xp1337 posted...
Legally, the individual responses to the census are supposed to be kept confidential. So, in theory, the data/answers should never get to ICE.

However, many will likely assume the same as you and hence the undercount. Also a fear that despite the law the information will get there.

Thanks for explaining. I wasn't sure whether it was legal to just give ICE the information, but I kind of assumed they'd get it anyway if Trump wins re-election. Laws don't really seem to apply to the current administration.
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Not_an_Owl
06/10/19 5:48:42 PM
#494:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Xeybozn posted...
Wait, why not? Being an illegal immigrant is illegal (obviously) and ICE is in charge of enforcing those laws. Is this just about not being allowed to literally break into immigrants homes? Couldn't ICE just wait outside then?

Census info isn't supposed to be shared with ICE

Anyone who honestly believes this isn't exactly what will happen is too naive for their own good.
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SmartMuffin
06/10/19 6:43:32 PM
#495:


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ChaosTonyV4
06/10/19 7:35:15 PM
#496:


SmartMuffin posted...
https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1138202050523615238


Woah, it's almost like the New York Times isn't one person.
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Nelson_Mandela
06/10/19 8:39:37 PM
#497:


Xeybozn posted...
Nelson_Mandela posted...
It's not like ICE can knock down their doors if they say they're not a citizen.

Wait, why not? Being an illegal immigrant is illegal (obviously) and ICE is in charge of enforcing those laws. Is this just about not being allowed to literally break into immigrants homes? Couldn't ICE just wait outside then?

1. There's literally zero evidence that this would be shared with law enforcement since doing so would be illegal. You can fantasize about America being a dystopia all you want but that doesn't change reality.

2. It's not illegal to not be a citizen. They aren't admitting to being an illegal immigrant.
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Nelson_Mandela
06/10/19 8:42:13 PM
#498:


Also they can just choose not to answer their census. Less representation is their reward for not participating in constitutional processes.
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LordoftheMorons
06/10/19 8:47:24 PM
#499:


Would you be saying the same thing if they added a question to the census asking men for their dick size in order to suppress male representation? (Let's also pretend that men and women were unequally distributed among states)
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Nelson_Mandela
06/10/19 9:00:18 PM
#500:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Would you be saying the same thing if they added a question to the census asking men for their dick size in order to suppress male representation? (Let's also pretend that men and women were unequally distributed among states)

I think asking about citizenship is actually relevant information for the federal government to know
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