Current Events > Puzzles in video games are like romance subplots in movies

(+) Yeah! (+)

Nobody wants them and if they do they'll play a game dedicted to them and yet every single freaking game has them.
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Nobody wants to solve a puzzle in a video game. Lol right.

TheGrindery posted...

Nobody wants to solve a puzzle in a video game. Lol right.

I mean sure, if it's a puzzle or adventure game.
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Examples?
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Don't speak for me.
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DevsBro posted...

TheGrindery posted...

Nobody wants to solve a puzzle in a video game. Lol right.

I mean sure, if it's a puzzle or adventure game.

What about platformer? Everyone loves getting extra lives as the animals in DKC games.

Doe posted...

Examples?

https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/19/20620.png

I guess it ultimately depends on your definition of a puzzle, but most types of games are all about problem solving.

So to say a puzzle is unwelcome in a game is to defeat the purpose of playing. May as well pick up a VN.
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Puzzles are great in games like Zelda and the Tales series.
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Doe posted...

Examples?

Are you kidding me

Skies of Arcadia--roll the cylinders
FF7--Hop across the ice things
Ass Creed 2--the truth
Ass Creed Bro--the truth
Silent Hill--piano
RE4--stupid rotating whatever thing in the graveyard
Tales of Symphonia--sorcerer's ring
Super Mario RPG--PEARLS
Batman Arkham--Riddler crap

Which of those was a puzzle game again?
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Alkaloid posted...

I guess it ultimately depends on your definition of a puzzle, but most types of games are all about problem solving.

Problem solving = use these tools to make your own solution.
Puzzle = there is one solution so think like I do or fail.
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DevsBro posted...

RE4--stupid rotating whatever thing in the graveyard

literally complaining about an optional treasure that takes 5 seconds to get
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RE4 - a square is missing. Move the pieces to make the picture.

I fuckin' hate those puzzles.

Delayed gratification.
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DevsBro posted...

Ass Creed 2--the truth
Ass Creed Bro--the truth

I liked those puzzles. They were a nice change up from the typical gameplay loop.
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i want them
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TheGrindery posted...

RE4 - a square is missing. Move the pieces to make the picture.

I fuckin' hate those puzzles.

literally the easiest sliding block puzzle ever, just move every one on the outside once
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IMNOTRAGED posted...

DevsBro posted...

Ass Creed 2--the truth
Ass Creed Bro--the truth

I liked those puzzles. They were a nice change up from the typical gameplay loop.

They were at least bearable, except the last few in Bro got too hard and that one stupid waveform one boiled down to an NP-complete problem.
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Screw you I love puzzles.
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DevsBro posted...

got too hard

ah i found out why you don't like puzzles, then

you're not good at them
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Guerrilla Soldier posted...

DevsBro posted...

got too hard

ah i found out why you don't like puzzles, then

you're not good at them

That's irrelevant, especially now that sites like gamefaqs.gamespot.com exist.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Guerrilla Soldier posted...

DevsBro posted...

got too hard

ah i found out why you don't like puzzles, then

you're not good at them

That's irrelevant, especially now that sites like gamefaqs.gamespot.com exist.

Hardly. Knowing the fatalities in MK games doesn't mean you have the proper timing down. I raged hard when I got the magazine home and it still took several tries to do one. Lol

Guerrilla Soldier posted...

DevsBro posted...

got too hard

ah i found out why you don't like puzzles, then

you're not good at them

Sounds like as good a reason as any.
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I mean, you can say a puzzle only has one solution, but that's wrong.

Hell, even the dictionary disagrees. "Designed to test ingenuity or knowledge."

Take a look at Breath of the Wild. The puzzles in that game usually have multiple solutions, because a lot of them are about playing with the game physics. Sure, they all have "intended" solutions, but the player can approach them however they wish.

Or how about Portal? That game's puzzles have multiple approaches because it's all about spatial reasoning.

And then you have games like Super Metroid, where the intended logical item progression can be subverted just by "getting good" at your jumping options.

I think your issue is more with a type of puzzle design (which is rampant in JRPGs and adventure games in particular) rather than with puzzles generally.
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TheGrindery posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Guerrilla Soldier posted...

DevsBro posted...

got too hard

ah i found out why you don't like puzzles, then

you're not good at them

That's irrelevant, especially now that sites like gamefaqs.gamespot.com exist.

Hardly. Knowing the fatalities in MK games doesn't mean you have the proper timing down. I raged hard when I got the magazine home and it still took several tries to do one. Lol

...fatalities are "puzzles"?

If you want a really obnoxious fighting game move, try Haohmaru in Samurai Shodow 2:

Hiougi Tenha Fuujin Zan (Hidden Secret Skill Heaven Supreme Sealing God Slash) - + B+C

Alkaloid posted...

I mean, you can say a puzzle only has one solution, but that's wrong.

Hell, even the dictionary disagrees. "Designed to test ingenuity or knowledge."

Take a look at Breath of the Wild. The puzzles in that game usually have multiple solutions, because a lot of them are about playing with the game physics. Sure, they all have "intended" solutions, but the player can approach them however they wish.

Or how about Portal? That game's puzzles have multiple approaches because it's all about spatial reasoning.

And then you have games like Super Metroid, where the intended logical item progression can be subverted just by "getting good" at your jumping options.

I think your issue is more with a type of puzzle design (which is rampant in JRPGs and adventure games in particular) rather than with puzzles generally.

Spin it semantically however you want. Doesn't change anything.
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As long as it's not a sliding tile puzzle, I'm open to it.
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"Semantics"

you played semantics first by trying to say problem solving is different (it's not)
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Lufia 2 was full of puzzles like "turn all the tiles one color by placing 1-radius bombs in good spots" or tile re-arrangement. Which were fun! Until the stupid goddamn sliding blocks.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZO91qpMtssM/maxresdefault.jpg
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the worst is when you get forced puzzles into a game, like with Uncharted 4.

there the puzzles are mostly "rotate these statues till they look like the picture that you can bring up with the start button", yet the game feels like it's compelled to include these puzzles just because otherwise it's nonstop platforming and shooting
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Alkaloid posted...

"Semantics"

you played semantics first by trying to say problem solving is different (it's not)

You win.

Congrats.

Can we move on now?
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Lufia 2 was full of puzzles like "turn all the tiles one color by placing 1-radius bombs in good spots" or tile re-arrangement. Which were fun! Until the stupid goddamn sliding blocks.

i never got past the sword shrine. i rented lufia 2 and i got stuck there and the music drove me nuts
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Romulox28 posted...

the worst is when you get forced puzzles into a game, like with Uncharted 4.

there the puzzles are mostly "rotate these statues till they look like the picture that you can bring up with the start button", yet the game feels like it's compelled to include these puzzles just because otherwise it's nonstop platforming and shooting

Uncharted puzzles tend to be kind of fun just because of presentation but they're of course mindless in execution. Which is good since it's a game about shooting stuff.
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Runescape treasure trail puzzles used to piss me off >_>
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If you didn't want a discussion, why did you engage?

Yeah, sure, there are tons of tedious bullshit puzzles that are more like chores (see: Tales of Symphonia, Ocarina of Time, any adventure game made by Sierra) but there's plenty of gameplay to be had that is essentially puzzle solving outside of these chores.

Like getting through a Metroid like platformer, where the puzzle is learning what you can use to get where. Or fighting bosses in a game like Furi or Shadow of the Colossus, where the puzzle is figuring out where or when you can attack. And of course you have precision platformers like Super Meat Boy where the hardest stages are essentially puzzles where you have to figure out how to reach the end of the level. (Actually I take that back: platforming in SMB is a tedious bullshit chore.)

I just think the OP and further posts ITT have this bizarre perception of puzzles = tedious bullshit chores, and I wanted to provide some counterpoint.

But I will admit, there are a lot of tedious bullshit chores in a lot of games. Ocarina of Time in particular is a game that is solely about doing tedious bullshit chores in every single dungeon. And I think that mindless approach to puzzle design was a great detriment to 3D gaming, since that influence is still being felt today.
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Yeah Zelda sure did fuck gaming up! May as well call it E.T.

But you have to admit, OOT is full of poor or at least uninteresting puzzles.

The vast majority of puzzles are

Find (and hit) the switch (ALTTP classic)
Kill every enemy (OG Zelda represent!)
Light all the torches (another classic ALTTP puzzle)
Collect five silver rupees (original idea for Zelda, but overused in OOT)
Play the Ocarina (lifted from LA)

These are all tedious bullshit chores, either learned behavior from prior Zelda experience, or new ideas that are introduced and then driven into the ground with nontransformative variation.

Some of the best original puzzles are actually in the first dungeon, involving the spider webs.

Fall from the ceiling to break a web? That's a smart puzzle. Navi spoils it, but it's something that's both logical and creative.

Swing a lit Deku stick to burn a web beneath you? Smart puzzle. Once the dungeon establishes that you can light a stick and that fire burns webs, this is the next logical conclusion.

Compared to "hit the switch I hid behind a fake wall and the door opens", I think it's clear which is better designed.
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Lighting the eyes in Dodongo's Cavern was cool.