Board 8 > Leonhart Ranks 124 User Nominated Games

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60. Tales of the Abyss (NBIceman)


Tales of the Abyss is an oddly structured game in many ways. You really have to be patient with it through its first act because it's rough. The cast isn't particularly likable (Luke being first and foremost among them), and the characters don't seem to like each other very much either. The story's pace is rather plodding, and it feels like monumental moments are few and far between. You also have to deal with the game's absurd terminology, which it is not afraid to use ad nauseum. It won't take long before you get tired of hearing Abyss talk about the various types of fonons, the Score, Lorelei, miasma, hyperresonance, etc. However, if you're longsuffering enough to stick with it to Akzeriuth, it will begin to reward you for your perseverance because it changes course. Most of the cast undergoes very compelling character development to the point that I started rooting for them to succeed (Anise never makes the transition to being likable, but eh, you can't win 'em all). The scale of the plot in Abyss expands in a major way, and it finally managed to hook me so that I never had to wonder again about whether to keep playing. The dumb terminology never goes away, but it's a Tales game. It's not going to be perfect.

Luke's character growth from an unbelievably selfish jerk to a self-sacrificing hero is a joy to behold. Sometimes it takes someone hitting absolute rock bottom in more ways than one to get the most out of a character, and that's definitely the case with Luke. The other characters come a long way in moving beyond their dark pasts, but nobody overcomes more of his own faults and failures than Luke. The party goes from a bunch of people who don't like and don't trust each other to a close-knit group. I actually like it a lot when an RPG can pull that off well because the friendship and camaraderie feels earned. It makes for a very satisfying journey for me. The Skits go a long way in that department, too. They've been one of my favorite things in both Symphonia and Abyss (the only two Tales games I've played). I also like the group of antagonists in Tales of the Abyss because each one has a special connection with one of the party members, and it's cool discovering how they relate to one another and what their background together was.

The battle system doesn't feel too different from Tales of Symphonia, but that's fine because I think it's a lot of fun. I eventually swapped out controlling Luke for Guy, whose playstyle is a lot like Lloyd's. I enjoy his flashy, fast-paced moveset. I tend to be aggressive and offensively-minded in video games, regardless of the genre, so Guy fits what I like to do very well. You can just get up in your enemies' faces and attack away. One major improvement over Symphonia is that the dungeons don't suck. They're actually fairly simple and straightforward, which was a nice change of pace. I still prefer Symphonia overall for reasons that I'll get into when we get there, but Abyss was a very worthwhile experience, too.

Bonus Question: What is your favorite Tales game?
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Berseria and it's not particularly close!
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I own both Xillia and Berseria, but I haven't gotten around to playing them yet.

Maybe once I get caught up on Trails in the Sky and Kingdom Hearts.
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Vesperia=Berseria > Symphonia > Abyss

I got super bored with Abyss at around what I think was roughly 2/3 of the way through. Part of me kind of wants to go back to it, but honestly it probably won't actually happen :/
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Symphonia > Abyss > Eternia > Who cares > Phantasia (played both SNES & GBA)/Destiny (PS1)/Legendia/Dawn of the New World

I thought that Abyss's battle system was pretty cool (still liked Symphonia's better, which I don't think is a common opinion? I'm a pretty scrubby Tales player, though) but the characters and story were a mixed bag for me and the pacing seriously hurt the game. Abyss also wins my vote for worst RPG world map.

Hoping Vesperia lives up to the hype!
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I kinda thought Luke was more interesting earlier in the game. Got more generic later.
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is there a more generic criticism than "generic"
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Anise was the only decent character, until she decided to suck. Stopped playing. Game should have ended already and I thought I was just in an epilogue. No there is a whole another section of game.

I like Tales of Destiny. First tales game I played. It may be outdated but it was charming.
Symphonia was pretty good.

I hated the rest so I stopped after Abyss. (Legendia had decent characters, and I beat it, but then the character stories. I did the first couple and stopped)

Berseria is actually really good though, watched my husband play.
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Yeah yeah my definition of intense boss fights came with some unwritten assumptions. I'm not always a fan of the logic that interactivity in games is what should be stressed the most just because it's what makes it unique, but in large swathes I agree with it.

FFXV was not the kind of avant garde story telling that could afford to skimp on the gameplay for its plot, whereas I can give Nier a pass a lot more easily.
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I did think a lot of Luke's point of view early game could have been preserved. He was making some decent points even though the game was trying to convince you that he was wrong every step of the way.

Still, I think it's cool that even after his Haircut Development, it turned out he needed to reclaim some of his individual pride and he has a second defining epiphany at the tail end for it.
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I don't think FFXV skimped on the gameplay though (and you seem to be conflating good gameplay with difficulty here)! If you want challenges, the game has them in some of the optional dungeons and hunts. I don't necessarily think the main story in an RPG needs them to be good though.
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Phantasia is underrated. Plot is SNES RPG plot, but the action style combat is even more impressive there. Plus it has character interaction that makes its contemporaries look really bad in comparison.
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I have more issues with FFXV's gameplay other than being too easy. I don't like the overall system being this weird mushy business of holding down buttons to perform auto-actions. Quests being things that you only get from like 6 people that you need to advance one at a time is baaaaad, on top of the content usually being simple fetch quests too. Dungeon design was mostly boring dark caves (and pretty much all optional ones were like this). Should have been more open environment dungeons like the mountain place and wooded areas. Should have been a Hard mode that could toggle off the ability to use items after you died. I have lots of reasons the game didn't come together for me, on top of some big central issues.

It did some things really well that I appreciate it for, and I'll have to check it out after all these patches. But I can't imagine really being into it the way I was for even my recent FFVI playthrough, and that's not one of my favorites at all.
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Oh, FFXV definitely has problems. They just weren't enough to offset all the things I really enjoyed about it. Like, none of those things you mentioned are more than minor annoyances to me.
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10-4 good buddy

I think that brings up a good point: I believe that we can mutually discuss objective issues and points of praise in these things. But it also doesn't mean we have to come to the same conclusions. I think when opinions disagree, it's more how much we stress certain aspects over others, rather than outright disagree about the content.
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59. Paper Mario (NBIceman)


Since it's not on the list, I'll go ahead and say that I think The Thousand-Year Door is an improvement over the original in just about every department. I also like Super Mario RPG and Bowser's Inside Story better (two other games that are also not on the list), but that's just a testament to how strong the Mario RPGs were until Nintendo ruined them because I like Paper Mario a lot, too. First of all, the "paper" concept was genius, especially combined with the fact that the environments were still 3-D. It gives the game an unmistakable charm all its own. It helps a lot that the writing tends to be very witty and clever, which adds to the charm even more. Of course, the star is RPG Bowser, Nintendo's best character. The little side stories with Peach roaming the castle with Twink and discovering his secrets were always really neat.

Unlike most of the Mario RPGs (which tend to mix up the formula a little by introducing new antagonists), Paper Mario sticks with the tried and true "Bowser kidnaps the princess and Mario has to rescue her" story. They put a new twist on it by having Bowser win their fight in the prologue due to the power of the Star Rod making him invincible. It raised the stakes by actually making him more formidable than having him just be the guy Mario always beats, and it set the stage for one of my favorite final bosses ever. I absolutely love the final showdown in Paper Mario. It's another testament to how much impact having the right atmosphere can have. The fight itself isn't that hard, but it still feels satisfying breaking through his seemingly invincible shield and taking him down.

The battle system is pretty basic, but they give you a wide array of party members who all have their practical uses, both in battle and outside of it. It's almost like Final Fantasy X in a way, in that certain party members are best suited to fighting certain types of enemies, and you can switch partners in and out on the fly, which is helpful. My personal favorite party members are Bombette and Parakarry. Goombario and Lady Bow are pretty cool, too. My favorite chapters were the Tubba Blubba chapter and the Shy Guy's Toy Box chapter. They were both really fun and good settings. Paper Mario is also pretty short, so it's one of those RPGs you can just pick up and blaze through as opposed to some of the 50+ hour giants out there. It's both simple and accessible, and I can appreciate that about it. Sometimes you just want a lighthearted and easygoing RPG, and Paper Mario's as good as it gets in that regard.

Bonus Question: What is your favorite Mario RPG?
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I really like Partners in Time, but I think I'm in the minority on that one.
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OG Mario RPG
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Paper Mario for me

It's probably nostalgia, but I've always preferred the original to TTYD
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Not a surprise on this board but TTYD is my favorite.
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I can't really choose between SMRPG PM1 and TTYD

So good in different ways
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Dang, two quick ones. :(

I've talked about my undying love for Abyss enough on this board plenty of times in the past, don't need to retread it here.

Original PM is still my favorite Mario RPG. I recognize TTYD did a lot of things that are probably objectively better, but it never connected with me quite as much. Never been sure exactly why.

Might go back and catch up with some of the other bonus questions that I have a good answer for but I don't want to clog the topic with multiple posts of that so maybe not. Enjoying the write ups, though.
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Nah, feel free to answer as many questions as you like. That's what they're there for! I enjoy others participating when I do these things.
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I haven't played a Tales game since Vesperia, but Abyss was the best one I've played.

I really want to play Berseria!
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Bonus Question: What is your favorite Mario RPG?

Gotta be TTYD, then BIS
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58. Shadow of the Colossus (pyresword)


When it comes to Shadow of the Colossus, many people harp on the beautifully desolate landscapes, the tragic yet unspoken love story, or the heartwarming companionship between a boy and his horse. Me, I'm in it for sixteen boss fights against the Colossi. All that other stuff is secondary. It's all about the thrill of the hunt, the sense of awe as you encounter the next Colossus, the sensation of your mind racing as you try to figure out how to climb this thing and find its weak spot, and the utter satisfaction of sweet victory. Lather, rinse, repeat sixteen times, and that's the appeal Shadow of the Colossus in a nutshell for me. When I saw people complaining about the PS4 HD version ruining the melancholy atmosphere and aesthetic of the original, I couldn't muster up any sort of emotion about it. Now I'm a big presentation guy, so I can understand and maybe even sympathize with the sentiment, but as long as they haven't changed the bosses in any way, I can't imagine I wouldn't still enjoy it.

Of course, if the majority of the gameplay is centered around epic boss fights, you better make sure they deliver. Nearly all of them do for me. It's hard to describe the Colossi here because they don't have official names, and just saying what number it is won't necessarily automatically register for people either, especially if it's been a while since you've played it. The only Colossus I actively dislike is the ninth one, a.k.a. the turtle-looking one that you have to shoot with an arrow on the bottom of his foot when it takes a step to knock it over so you can attack it. I don't particularly care for the twelfth one either, which is the plesiosaur-looking one in the giant lake. The best ones are the flying ones (fifth and thirteenth) because holding on for dear life as you try to avoid falling off is pretty exhilarating. I also really like the smallest ones (eleventh and fourteenth) because they're super aggressive and fast unlike most of the other Colossi, and you have to find a way to break their armor before you can actually damage them. The final Colossus is excellent as well. It's definitely a worthy last boss because the game makes you work hard just to get to him, and the atmosphere surrounding him is really good because it's dark and stormy the entire fight. The music in this game is great, too. It really enhances the fights, I think.

As much as I enjoyed Shadow of the Colossus, I haven't tried out any of Team Ico's other offerings. As far as I can tell, they're vastly different games in terms of gameplay, although it keeps the same kind of tone and atmosphere. Maybe the reason I haven't felt the need to try them is because the things they seem to have in common aren't the things that appeal to me. Maybe they're good, and maybe I'll play them someday, but I'm not in a hurry. I'm content with my experience with Shadow of the Colossus.

Bonus Question: What was your favorite Colossus?
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Hey I just bought the remake yesterday.

Colossus 13 was my favorite back in 2005, we'll see how I feel about them 13 years later.
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57. Kirbys Dream Course (Janus5k)


I'm not a fan of "regular" golf. Well, I've never played a hole of it in my life, so maybe it'd be more accurate to say I've had no desire to play it. On the other hand, mini-golf (or "putt-putt," if you prefer) is a lot of fun. One of these days, Dante and I will finally meet up for a round of Goony Golf. So what could make mini-golf even more fun? Add a hefty dose of "dum pink ball," of course, with an extra helping of "dum yellow ball" for two-player mode! This is another one of those games I never owned. Instead, my best friend and I would rent it, binge on it for several hours, and then take it back until the urge to play it again returned. Kirby's Dream Course is the kind of game that's meant to be played in short bursts because it's not like there's an expansive story or career mode to be found here. Plus, you've gotta play this with another person to get the most mileage out of it. I can't imagine trying to play it by myself.

First of all, the concept of making a mini-golf game with Kirby is a really clever idea, so I've gotta give them props for coming up with this at all. Then you have several of Kirby's Copy powers strewn around the course to add an additional layer of fun. You can either use them to make it easier to get in the hole, or you can utilize them to blast the other player off the course, which is the best way to play, in my opinion! After all, Kirby's Dream Course doesn't keep track of your total strokes. The only thing that counts is who gets in the hole first, so it doesn't matter how you get there! Although there aren't a lot of courses to choose from, the Copy powers and the fact that the hole can appear in a different place each time depending on how you navigate it both help to keep the gameplay fresh. Kirby games are designed to be light and fun, and Dream Course definitely fits the bill.

Bonus Question: What is your favorite Nintendo sports game?
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I don't really like challenges so I never got very far with SotC. But from what I played I was thoroughly impressed by its graphics and art direction. Looked really gorgeous for a PS2 game (I played it only in 2016 or so).
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LeonhartFour posted...

Bonus Question: What is your favorite Nintendo sports game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1q2gbgL_iI
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Kirby has had some good mini-games over the years. I didn't particularly like Kirby 64's single player content, but my friends and I played the heck out of the multiplayer mini-games.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Kirby has had some good mini-games over the years. I didn't particularly like Kirby 64's single player content, but my friends and I played the heck out of the multiplayer mini-games.

I liked Kirby 64 but I can't think about it without just thinking of this:


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oh my god my friend got a SNES Classic recently and we decided to try this game out for a couple hours since I think it's the only one that neither of us played before. It's one of the worst games I ever played. There might just be something we weren't getting, but everything about it seemed incredibly clunky and poorly designed. There are a few Kirby games I like quite a bit, but this is most definitely not one of them.

Raka_Putra posted...

I don't really like challenges so I never got very far with SotC. But from what I played I was thoroughly impressed by its graphics and art direction. Looked really gorgeous for a PS2 game (I played it only in 2016 or so).

What do challenges have to do with SotC?
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Dream Course was a renter back in the day.
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56. Chess (Xeybozn)


I said in some of the early writeups that I'm generally not fond of games I'm not good at, but chess is one of the exceptions. It's largely because I can appreciate the amount of strategy and technique it takes to be good at it, and watching two skilled people play is kinda fascinating, too. I understand the rules of the game and all, but I don't play it nearly often enough to develop a knack for it. I'm not very good at strategy type games anyway, because I have a hard time seeing three or four moves ahead. I can't "see" the board that way, I guess. I'm also bad at reading my opponent's moves and figuring out what they're going to do next based on what I do. As such, I actually prefer to go second because it's easier for me to react than to be the one causing the reaction. In just about every other game, I like to be the aggressor and be offensively minded, but chess just puts me on the defensive because I have little confidence in my skills. Even so, I tend to react quickly and not take very long to make my next move, which also may be part of the reason I'm not very good!

I have a good friend who is mildly autistic who loves chess and would play it on the computer all the time. Not sure if he still does since I don't get to see him that often anymore, but he went through a phase where it was basically all he played. It got to the point where, if you were playing against him, he could tell you exactly what the CPU would do in that exact same scenario. It was pretty insane, although you could also throw him off of his game by insisting on playing as white and going first because that was how the version he played was set up for him. Not that I would ever play dirty like that, of course...! Anyway, the point is that I know I'm never going to have that sort of knowledge about chess, but it's just a little awe-inspiring and impressive to find someone who does. It's a good game, but I'll never be good at it.

Bonus Question: What's your skill level at chess?
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My ELO on the Lichess Blitz ladder is around 1550 which puts me at slightly above average among a large selection of people that play regularly. So I'm relatively good I guess.

(Rapid ELO is ~1700 with a sample size of only about 30-40 games.)
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Does Mario Kart count as a sport?
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I made the chess club in middle school, but I still was just "pretty decent" at it. My friend in my class was a wiz though -- rated and everything. To this day, I've never beaten him. The best I got was a stalemate at 1 am one night!
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I'm terrible at chess, still enjoy playing it occasionally though.
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tazzyboyishere posted...

Does Mario Kart count as a sport?

For the purposes of the question, I'll allow it.
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Then Mario Kart 8 ez
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I should probably make a new topic instead of dumping the next game at the end of this one.
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New topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/76319349
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also follow the new topic for a surprising (or perhaps not so surprising) twist when we hit the top 25
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either way we should probably just go ahead and max out this topic
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fine I'll do it myself
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is it appropriate to say use "Happy Valentine's Day" as a greeting the way you would "Merry Christmas" or "Happy New Year?"

or should it just be reserved for someone you love?
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no you won't
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