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Kirby's always been my boy in Smash. I think that's a big part of the reason I prefer Brawl to Melee he was such garbage in Melee. Like, not even just bad but also not fun to play. He feels like he doesn't belong in that game's style.
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Mint
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I think Brawl's basically the same as 4 in that regard. I really don't see an appeal to it in a world where Ultimate exists unless someone really liked SSE I guess

I also agree that 64 probably gets third if we run that poll again today
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I'd always take Brawl > 4 because lol Wii U

I mean I guess there's the 3DS game too (the source of most of my Smash 4 gameplay!) but yeah I'm not sure you'd need Ultimate out for that one.
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If Smash 4 was Smash 4 with tripping and has Bayonetta out of the box the fanbase probably revolts against it even though it's completely fine even with those things. I just feel like it's the type of fanbase that likes to blow things out of proportion. Smash 4 having few glaring flaws is the main reason they moved on. But a few glaring flaws doesn't make a game unplayable competitively. Ban Meta-Knight (why that was never a consensus I'll never know) and problem stages (this isn't new in the series-- just more stages to ban in Brawl) and Brawl is basically fine. Different playstyle but not unplayable. Like one or two man S tiers exist in a lot of fighters and sometimes they get banned out (to be fair when banned they're usually boss characters but still)-- Brawl's not unique in this regard.

Like I'm not saying there aren't more flaws in Brawl, just that you can prefer Brawl for its gameplay in spite of its flaws, and that there's a perfectly playable game there. Personally I thought 64 was the best one until 4 but you know.

Anyway I'll stop since I know transience is starting to facepalm here. Just wanted to say my piece on it.
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20 things what. I mean unless you're saying a bunch of the stages were garbage and counting that as 18 of the things you need to ban that's pretty well untrue.

I mean honestly like, the community of Smash, I don't really trust its appraisal of what is competitively viable, just straight up. You put a few glaring things in there and cause uproar from a few vital points in the community and then it's just snowballing from there.

If you're that hardcore into Smash Melee like, there's something there where you're naturally going to be resisting change. Like other fighting games you don't get the same kinda mindset. People who play Street Fighter will play Marvel will play Guilty Gear. Not everyone's going to play everything but there's not many players who just play one game.

Smash players though? For the lion's share of them it's just Smash and I think that's telling. There's a certain unwillingness to try new things baked into the fanbase there. I mean it'll eventually get there if a game doesn't have glaring flaws but I feel like a game like Brawl with easy flaws to pick at will always be playing from behind with a fanbase like that.

Like if you had the playerbase that played Melee playing Street Fighter IV we'd probably still be on Street Fighter IV instead of having moved to Street Fighter V. Now that'd possibly be a good thing but I'm not saying SFV isn't competitively viable even if it is worse than SFIV.
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Yeah probably the biggest crime of 2013 is I feel like in a 1v1 contest Snake could've possibly beaten Link. It just feels like there was a certain buzz for the guy then that was not anywhere close this year. Snake's just not the same guy and probably never will be again.
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Saying Brawl is the 'more casual' fighter than Melee is like saying Street Fighter IV is the 'more casual' fighter than Guilty Gear Xrd or Marvel. They're just different styles, and Melee looks more flashy. That's basically it.

Being more fast paced does not make a game more deep or anything. Brawl was more floaty and more about zoning than Melee, has a bit worse balance (though probably better if you just ban Meta), had tripping everyone likes to throw fits about, but both games are able to be played at high levels and imo neither one is "more credible" than the other. Melee at this point I'd say is better as its own thing because Melee is the best version of Melee out there and Brawl is just watered down 4/Ultimate, but at the time? Never played into that elitism.

Anyway don't really want to go too deep into that cause I don't want to derail your topic and you said in the write-up you didn't but yeah.

I'm just saying I'm not convinced FFX beats Majora even if Melee wins. FFX would have probably beaten Melee or Brawl but to me it's a really hard sell to say that Zelda anything is going to lose when it was shown to have won, no matter the circumstance. To me that narrative has always felt like we're just trying to blame Brawl for something for the sake of blaming Brawl for something.
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Kitana
Starfire
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I'm probably like top 5 on this board at worst on actually liking and getting hardcore into real fighting games and I think Brawl's gameplay is better than Melee's get that casual stuff outta here

Though I'll say at this point Brawl's pretty well obsoleted by 4 and Ultimate. Really no reason you'd want to play it over those two. Melee's more of its own thing so you can sort of appreciate it on its little island over there if you want.

Anyway Brawl > Melee is a good result and I don't care if people "sided with Zelda to beat it" or whatever. People were gonna side with Zelda to beat the contest because it's Zelda.
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I still play AR. I've absorbed how insignificant the hero boost actually is and have gotten over it. It's just a dirty on principle thing. It's too insignificant to be pay to win. It's pay to tiebreak at best.

That being said you really want to avoid getting as many guys from AR as you can, especially when you're me and there are like 10 units you like from there. The cost for later grails ramps up really hard.
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Probably Red/Blue vs Ryu/Ken since I'd imagine both you and I picked it which means we'd only need the guest to go with us to perish.
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Huh man that Cecilia dagger is really good for Matthew that's a shame I kinda wanted to build her but that urge to skill inherit is too high

Well I'll build her for now for the TT but yeah probably gonna have to hand out that boot
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Xena (Xena: Warrior Princess)
Yuyuko Saigyouji (Touhou)
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Got Aeris LMR

If I must get a 5* this is about the best one to get for me so I'll take it. Maybe I'll grab Aeris Ultra next select
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Jakyl25 posted...

I meant in the sense of the health and exposure of the rest of wrestling outside of WWE

Can we look back now and blame TNA somewhat for a decade of rendering other alternatives to WWE not viable or profitable

Oh. I mean, uh, somewhat, probably, since it was draining the talent pool and demand for alternative product by offering a garbage product that made WWE look better by comparison.

But I think sheer attrition would be the main thing, as well as WWE's steady decline in show quality and ratings since probably like 2013. Like I think if TNA was still alive and well now you might still have a bit of an uptick of exposure to NJPW and RoH and whatnot just because it wasn't all TNA propping WWE up, either-- the show was legit better back then too.
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Espeon posted...

Seriously, this contest analysis is the ONE thing you do that people still kinda like about you

And looking at how the write-ups are veering further and further off onto incoherent tangents over the years I'm not entirely sure why.
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There are other factors to consider in Ganondorf vs Luigi r2/r3 than just Bacondorf in that contest. The size of the vote to draw matters a lot. Ganondorf is going to crumble harder the tougher his competition gets because of the nature of his leechy fanbase. I'd blame GAME FUEL Master Chief shrinking their combined portion of the vote from 60 to 45 more than Bacon there.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Was this possible all along and the existence of TNA was suppressing it?

Well the rise of streaming services and general stagnation among original TV programming is what enabled WWE to snag a lucrative TV contract. The former also helped allow WWE Network to become more profitable.

So no probably not. In fact if TNA hadn't dropped the ball by pissing off Spike they could probably be turning a profit right now too-- I'm sure they could've maintained leverage worthy ratings had they not blundered so many times. It's not like WWE's current ratings are very far above peak TNA's at all.
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Ganondorf is popular because of Zelda leeching which he gets from being a pig regardless.
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Cena's definitely close enough. If your bar is Cena not being heroic enough I think you need to lower it slightly.
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I may do a pull or two on FFVI. Rydia banner has Red XIII Earth Chain as well so that's getting some pulls-- it's just a question of how many that gets which will give me the number on VI.
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I feel like Kirby in the new Smash game is the best he's been since 64 but what do I know
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KamikazePotato posted...

The general term people use is Pity Breaker / Pity Broken.

More evidence my love for Killer Instinct has infected this topic. I apologise.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

barreldragon88 posted...

You call that a bummer when i consider that as a blessing. I first got combo-broken by Innes, then again by Faye, but luckily got +Res/-HP Ephraim in the same circle. Getting ruined by two archers i care nothing about sucks. How i wish Faye were already demoted

Will have to try for Eirika after i gather more orbs

What does it mean to get "combo broken"

Your chance of 5* goes up every 5 unit pulls you make. It gets reset when you get any 5*. So people tend to call it "combo broken" (I feel like it's my fault for making this standard jargon in this topic but I may be mistaken) when their increased 5* rate gets reset by a unit they don't want.
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Got Christmas Ephraim off 8 orbs off the initial circle. +Spd because of course he is, but cool I guess
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Panthera posted...

When the WWE makes a big announcement, it's that they've decided that trying to put on a show people might want to see sounds like a good idea to pay lip service to

amazing
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Quistis's OSB

It's kinda fun for novelty's sake honestly. I almost got this with one of those OSB packs
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Comic book cred and wrestling cred it's the perfect way to pander to scarlet
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He means Raiden from Fatal Fury and Raiden of Earth-616
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I still think Final Fantasy as a whole in 06 gains more than Zelda as a whole in 06 from a series vs series match, so yeah OoT was probably a good deal stronger than FF7 by then.

Nowadays it'd be sketch because FF's legacy hasn't exactly been pristine since like FF10 way back in 01. FF7 is probably > FF as a series now.

That is to say nowadays I'd expect that one to be 60-40 Zelda's favor minimum.
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If you want a better idea of how much the format alone helps Chief, check out 08 Chief. He's still good but he's not nearly at 07 levels. Of course he'd be weaker than 08 now because 08 Chief isn't losing to Tails 1v1, but it's a good starting point.
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GAME FUEL also much better joke material than a being shaped like a boot

I miss GAME FUEL. I mean the drink. It was great.
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As the main guy who put forth the idea that Chief was nonlinear and rode the believe to a top 6 finish, I'm pretty sure Chief was a bit of both in 07. I kinda wish we had seen him in a 1v1 but I also don't think he's going to beat Crono easily in 07 in a 1v1. I do think he could possibly win in 07 and it's not all format, but the format definitely helped him a bit since he'd have just walked over the guy in a 4 way. It's not even just that he's non-linear (which I do believe) but that you can also disperse the anti-votes that much better.

Also the round 2 match is the one to put up imo. 43% on 3 Yunas instead of 45% on 1 Yuna + two fodders. That was the one that really had me think "dude's here to play."

Side note I really hated how the L-Block gained traction as some sort of "anti-GameFAQs vote" when Chief would've pissed off GameFAQs so much more to anyone who had followed the site. Chief winning in 07 if the rage against the machine crowd knew what they were doin would've been best civilization.
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Underrated and probably most significant factor of any Smash Boost is Simon actually gets a recognizable picture that isn't Judgment Simon with his 93 belts.
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Ulti_PCA posted...

I find it hilarious Monika might have gotten a bandwagon going if Noctis was her round 1 opponent.

If Monika's fanbase was going to pull Undertale style "rallying" Wario would have been weak enough. I don't think there's any path for her to exploit that has her winning. On paths I think D.Va was the only one that had something vaguely workable but her fanbase didn't care enough either, but I don't think Monika gets anything but 1 point going through that path either.
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It's 5 years between that one and Draven get it right.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

I still find it weird that tumblr had enough people to pull off that Undertale run

Spoilers: They didn't.
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Etna (Disgaea)
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We need more Link

Link vs the world gauntlet is the only way
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I agree there are some decent women that aren't being used but I think even if you use all of them there still isn't enough to fit the amount of exposure they're trying to give it.

Especially when it's diluted with the abundance of bad/meh women they have.

I suppose you could call up Kairi Sane and Io Shirai and Shayna Baszler and Toni Storm they'd be a lot closer to where they need to be but yeah.
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Eddv posted...

Well the women went from "diversity initiative" to "legitimately the best thing going" which is largely due to how big of a star and how quick of a study Ronda has been and Becky and Charlotte both REALLY elevating their games.

My point is I think in terms of influence it'd be "everything else on the show tanking that much that a decent women's division is the highlight" > "WWE's token effort to make you believe they're taking things seriously with actual main event slots once in a while" > "the actual quality of the division"

I mean it's probably the best it's ever been but only slightly so. I wouldn't say it's off on an island compared to 2016 or 2017. And put it another way if WWE were actually Women's Wrestling Entertainment I wouldn't watch it, currently. Well I scarcely watch WWE as it is so that should go without saying.

That being said I wish they would actually use their abundance of money and frivolous hirings to hire enough good women's hands to flesh out the divisions a bit instead of giving the same handful of mix and match matches ad nauseam. Like they just don't have enough competent women to match the amount of exposure they give them, currently, and them feeling like a highlight is a symptom of the show being bad as much as anything. That's just how I feel, though.
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I might agree the women have been the draw in 2018

But uhh... that's not entirely a flattering thing all things considered with what a down year it was. Like in a year where the men are actually on point, or in a actual good women's fed, this women's division doesn't rate.

It's quite good by 2018 WWE standards though.
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Yeah that's my thinking too. Game contests might be the main thing we get if not for Link/Cloud 03.
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I tend to agree with Ulti_PCA's ideas for #1.

Mario Samus probably shouldn't even be top 5 all things considered.
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Oh lol wow

I spent around 80 orbs + the ticket base and got 1 Ophelia 1 Eir and 1 Leo

Now I'm jealous
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Also glad Christmas Cecilia is the freebie since she's the only one I'd have any interest in
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Eir boosts lift on her own. I don't think Light Blessings do anything but the stat boost.

Keep in mind it's only equal to merges, not merges +1, so you need your Eir Merged to get any extra lift at all, and it's only during her season.

Honestly unless you're whaling pretty hard for her it's extremely minor and I'm more insulted that they added that as "incentive" than anything. As far as realistic change to the mode's scoring it means almost nothing.

Also congrats Luis. I went kinda hard on this hero fest but I didn't get nearly as many as you did. Mine is only +1 now. Course I probably spent like 1/10 the orbs
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To be fair Aeris is a lot better in Crisis Core than anything else. That game converted me from hating her to being a lukewarm whatever on her. Which is a big deal.

I think part of it has to do with voice acting though. She's comes off differently than how I imagined in FFVII but in a way that seems like a valid interpretation of her character. Wasn't just having a VA cause in KH and AC her VA didn't give that vibe.
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Like I said I think it's mostly notable just because it really drove home that Link/Zelda were on a completely different level from Mario. In 02 that wasn't clear till that match. Like you said you compare Seph and Cloud vs the two and you don't expect it.

I guess you could say we've been beaten over the head by it so much over the years that this one isn't that significant but I'd say that match gave you hints for a lot of things. Like Mario 64 vs Ocarina 04, on any random website, is at least worth thinking about, but here it's a 80-20 blowout and that's not super surprising because we saw Link thrash Mario so badly directly.
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