Lurker > Nemu

Bishop9800 posted...

No, you're the one who's grandstanding while protecting Nazis, and making excuses for them.

Seeing as it's "buzzword I learned on Wikipedia today" day, strawman,

Bishop9800 posted...

And that's your problem, YOU DON'T THINK.

Why do you keep responding if you refuse to address anything? You've already made your moral grandstand.

Hinakuluiau posted...

It's not about projecting. It's more of a "no shit, what do you expect" kind of thing. Obviously not every member of the Nazi Party was evil, obviously not every German soldier during WWII was an evil bastard who supported genocide.
But what do we gain from pointing out the obvious? It just serves to take away from the very real issues that Nazism presents. You think you're having a nuanced discussion but really you're just coming off as an edgy teen who's trying to one-up their parents because of a technicality.

Because I was accused of defending them, so I brought up the two prior topics I thought that may have triggered such a response. The topic it stemmed from was about a recent super old nazi war criminal and some people presenting the idea that there was literally no way to have for literally anyone fought under Germany while remaining a good person, not even threats or outside duress. That may be obvious to you, but apparently nobody else in this topic so far agrees with you. I'm not trying to attach a percentage. I'm not trying to say they're good as a whole. I'm just saying that there is literally no way each and every member was evil and giving examples as to how that's the case.

Bishop9800 posted...

You seriously don't know what that actually means.

DezDroppedFreak posted...

Is it really that hard for you to grasp why people say nazis are/were bad instead of NOT ALL nazis were bad

I don't think I've anywhere in this discussion implied that the nazis as a whole were not the most evil fuckers the world has ever seen. People want to project that on me instead of having any kind of discussion.

Bishop9800 posted...

Look who's taking

"0% of 13 million people were good people despite nearly all of the survivors being allowed to return to normal lives by the Allied powers besides the few thousand that were tried and executed" seems more naive to me.

Bishop9800 posted...

If they didn't, they wouldn't have joined. But please, continue to prove what people are saying about you

That's a horribly naive take.

PleaseClap posted...

I'm still both laughing and cringing at the "Did Nazi soldiers really try to advance the Nazi agenda?" question

Do you really think every single soldier had a vested interest in the acts of the nazi party? Do you think there's no chance that the 65,000 people executed for desertion and act of insubordination (at least according to History.com) had no influence on them choosing to continue fighting?

PleaseClap posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

And? That's basically a kind of plea deal for a very select few people. That doesn't answer for the millions of others.

DezDroppedFreak posted...

What exactly do you think youre accomplishing here

Trying to figure out why people are so hellbent on saying literally ever member of the German army was evil when we have literally millions of German soldiers that returned home after the war. That's either saying the allied powers knowingly let the worst evil of all time go, or maybe not every German soldier was evil.

Ethosian posted...

Rational person in this situation: "OK, maybe I shouldn't have defended Nazis, my bad"

Nemu: *continues defending Nazis and trying to say he's not defending them*

It would be nice if someone would actually answer a question instead of this pretend moral high ground.

Bishop9800 posted...

Dawg, you're defending Nazis and everything they did. What is so hard about understanding that?

So you're both disingenuous and refuse to answer a single question.

Bishop9800 posted...

Dude, just stop. You're making yourself look even worse

Is it so hard to answer a single question?

Bishop9800 posted...

and you're defending Nazis, whats your point?

Again, how is saying there is no way that a group of 13 million people can be homogeneously evil defending the group as a whole? Is it really that hard to answer questions? I don't see why it's so hard to engage in a discussion.

Bishop9800 posted...

...............................................................goalpost

That word.

PleaseClap posted...

Can you read this back to yourself

Your country goes to war for unscrupulous/evil reasons. You have a wife and children at home. You lack the means to remove them and yourself from the country. You're drafted into the army. Do you abandon your family to their fate by either running away or killing yourself, or do you fight? Is that such an impossible scenario to you?

Bishop9800 posted...

sure....

And again, this circular discussion returns to "is every single one of the millions of soldiers who returned after the war an evil human being?" Does fighting on the front line for Germany in WWII inherently make one a proponent of nazi ideology? Are there not innocent people caught up in horrible cults all the time?

Bishop9800 posted...

and the goalpost keeps getting moved further and further

This seems like a good place for the The Princess Bride quote. Quickly, could you summarize what you think I think?

Ethosian posted...

Nemu: "I don't defend Nazis"
Everyone else "..."
Nemu: "Not all Nazis!"

Because this is completely silly. It's like saying every single early American was responsible for the slaughter of Native Americans and the enslavement of Africans rather than those who actually did the slaughtering and the slave trading/owning. It doesn't mean their tacit acceptance of those tragedies for hundreds of years should be completely overlooked, but there is no way you can say they're all evil either.

Ethosian posted...

Nemu probably thinks the Nuremberg trials convicted innocent men, lmao

Yes, because I don't believe every single foot soldier was an evil, evil man I must certainly believe some of the highest officials were innocent.

Ethosian posted...

"I don't defend Nazis, but Antifa sucks and not all Nazis are bad"

LMFAO

It is beyond weird how hard it is for people to not make strawmen in these arguments. Anywhere in my argument does it seem like I'm trying to say "because there were innocent people in the German army that means the nazis weren't evil pieces of shit?"

sktgamer_13dude posted...

So concentration camps are bad now, eh.

What about the concentration camps at the border? Theyre ok still, right, because Trump okd them?

The concept of holding centers for those crossing the border illegally is fine, but it sounds like they have a lack of resources, a lack of caring management (including many seemingly dehumanizing those being held), and a lack of ability to process people in a timely manner. With proper resources, caring staff members, and a process that didn't keep families apart for months, there'd be no issues.

King_Hutton posted...

There is no reason for anyone to come out trying to defend any Nazis in 2019

It's called having a nuanced discussion. What do people think happened to the millions of surviving soldiers? Do they think there was some kind of mass German army execution? Most returned to normal lives, some evil fucks getting away with horrible acts, some people having simply fought on the front lines returning home. It's not like I'm trying to downplay or deny the horrible acts of WWII. We just need to be realistic that the upper brass and those involved with the concentration camps were the most evil of the bunch and that there were regular people mixed up in the madness.

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

here, I'll answer. although this goes without saying...

you don't need to be a fan of, or even LIKE Antifa to be objective. you claim Antifa are shitheads but you want people to believe in "good" Nazis.

that's enough of a Nazi defense for you to be tagged as a Nazi defender, lol.

So yes, you want to twist the argument. It should be easy to answer a question of "in an army of 13.6 million, would every single person from the top brass to the common foot soldier actually be the evil stereotype portrayed in media?" As a group, they were the most horrible set of people likely to ever exist, but not every mook is going to be like that. Same with antifa. As a whole, they're goddamn garbage, but that doesn't mean there aren't kids with good intentions who don't participate in wonton violence against regular, non-neo nazis.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

>people are against literal fascism and white supremacy
>somehow those people are the bad guys

And you wonder why people call you a Nazi defender.

Yes, because it's entirely impossible for two groups of shitheads to fight each other.

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

is this a rhetorical question?

Either answer it or clarify as to how I defend them when I vehemently have always stated they're shitheads. You're either the "antifa are good people" type of person or the type to completely misinterpret my argument.

RickyTheBAWSE posted...

it's unhealthy to defend Nazis, but you have a history of doing that too.

Thinking antifa are shitheads or arguing that there is no way that every member of a 10+ million man army were completely evil stereotypes, which one is "defending nazis" to you?

sktgamer_13dude posted...

But we must always believe cops, no questions asked?

Got it.

You might want to take a step back and realize hating something so much that it blinds you to rational discussion is unhealthy.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Notice how the usual suspects havent addressed what the daughter said and what the ex-Starbucks worker said.

I for one am shocked I tell you. Shocked.

The father is the spokesperson, not the one who picked up the coffee, so irrelevant beyond that an authority figure may be a piece of shit if his daughter is being truthful.
The Twitter person is just that, some Twitter rando. It's not impossible, but there's no guarantee it's true either.

BurmesePenguin posted...

Assuming this wasnt faked, I find it quite pathetic that a police chief literally went out of his way to get a barrista fired via twitter because he wasnt being appropriately respectful.

If it's not fake, the barista insulted a paying customer, so they deserve to be fired regardless of how minor the insult.

Hanky_Bannister posted...

Disgusting that a cop got an innocent person fired with fake out rage

Some random Twitter person saying it doesn't make it automatically true. If it turns out to be the case, I'm sure Starbucks will come out with it eventually unless they want to make the story fade away.

Regardless if the cop's demeanor triggered a reaction or they're just stupid people who think all cops are authoritarian assholes, it's still a moronic thing to do. Though it wouldn't be super surprising if the above thing about it being a Smollett turns out true either because people do like to make themselves victims.

The23rdMagus posted...

In my three months as a telemarketer (legit, but dear god never again), the magic words were "please take me off your list". I know I was intruding into your life to make minimum wage and the faint hope of a commission, and I was more than happy to politely show myself out.

On the other side of things, my coworkers were assholes, and if those legally binding words didn't show up on the line, they'd mark you for a callback the next day. And the next, and the next, and the next.

No money's worth that.

There's definitely no way most companies actually take people off lists. I've gotten a call from the same bastard three times in a row trying different business lines.

QueenCarly posted...

Considering that capitalism demands growth at all costs...

Human growth would proceed under nearly any system (aside from self-destructive systems like pure communism). The better medicine gets, the more people live, the more people thrive, the more people have kids, the more space we need to take from nature, the more production needs to increase, etc.

Antifar posted...

What's the biggest threat to this, do you figure?

Nukes and unchecked human expansion fucking up the environment, neither of which are inherent to capitalism.

It's one thing to just be a random telemarketer, but I fucking cannot stand the ones out to scam old people out of money. I'll generally politely decline regular ones, but I fucking hate anyone calling about my "credit card account" or "Microsoft account." They deserve all the vitriol in the world, and I give it to them.

Yes. If we survive the next 100 years or so, we may find a better system with emerging science and technology, but I don't think there is any other system humans would have better organized under.

Probably straight off either donate a billion, or maybe set it up to be invested and permanently donate the interest each year. Set up pretty much every single member of my family for life, even ones I've never met. Probably travel for a few years seeing as I could afford a private jet and the best hotels. Then just continue as I've been, with a much better lifestyle.

Vol2tex posted...

That's awesome, but your parents charged you rent?

After 18, yes. I honestly forget what I paid, but it definitely wasn't comparable to apartment rent. It was mostly just enough to cover my existence while saving enough to get my savings to the point where I could afford the down payment and slog through the payments as quickly as possible.

Lived at home paying rent until I was 22, then put a down payment on a pretty inexpensive house, and got it paid off by 25.

At this very moment, around 1300-1500 miles. At home, about 10-15 miles.

Why do these kinds of topics always turn into the oppression Olympics?

Faerun. Unless I can learn magic or something, I'm probably fucked.

MKScorpion posted...

Hold up a second...your girlfriend's husband? Am I misreading something or just stupid right now?

It's a cuck meme. Though usually it's from the point of view of the guy being cucked, like "my wife's boyfriend."

SailorGoon posted...

Either way there's blood on your hands since you'd basically be responsible for the death of everyone involved in the war/holocaust

More of a trolly problem with your and everyone you loves existence on the line.

I would do everything possible to keep the timeline stable. As appealing as fixing a human atrocity sounds, stopping WWII would likely mean anyone born after the war started wouldnt exist. Other than a few very secluded areas, the war affected pretty much everyone in the world, even simply from reading about it in the news.

I thought of Samus, so I guess just cloned dude Samus.