Lurker > Nemu

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

Again, dodging the question. I don't care about how you do things, unless you're talking about trans people. Stop using this generic "dealbreakers" as if they're all equivalent. Tell me the oh so tactful way you use or would use to persuade a transperson to out themselves to you if they were purposefully withholding it.

Yeah we already established that your question is a pathetic attempt to save face since your argument got fucking demolished

Good job still dodging. It's a very simple question you're avoiding, and you cannot even provide a reason for avoiding it. For now, I will believe that your only dealbreaker is the person must like the same kind of Pringles as you.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...
Youre grasping real hard now that the rest of your argument has been completely destroyed, huh?

Tell me how a normal person would react to the statements "I don't want to sleep with a trans person" or "are you a trans person?" If that's how you think normal people should act, tell me how it would work. If not, then you're just sitting on some hypothetical high horse.

Its hilarious how you make up a fake quote, attribute it to me, and then tell me that your bullshit means Im wrong.

It's hilarious how you're dodging it. Those are the sum of your statements up until now. Where am I wrong? If you really think I am, go ahead and actually tell me instead of avoiding it.

lololol Im totally laughing at you and not just doing my best to save face after having no counter arguments

Yeah cool we believe you

So you are unable to provide an example of how your idea would work in actual life? Then all you have done is create an unworkable hypothetical that solves nothing. You have no point. The fact that your last five responses boil down to "lol no u" is quite telling.

Nah man I tell everyone my dealbreakers before hooking up, I work em into conversation, and if youre too socially inept to figure out how to do it aint no one elses fault.

But youve spent all topic trying to skirt responsibility so why would I expect differently now? You cant even take responsibility for not knowing how to talk to people.

Again, dodging the question. I don't care about how you do things, unless you're talking about trans people. Stop using this generic "dealbreakers" as if they're all equivalent. Tell me the oh so tactful way you use or would use to persuade a transperson to out themselves to you if they were purposefully withholding it.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...
Youre grasping real hard now that the rest of your argument has been completely destroyed, huh?

Tell me how a normal person would react to the statements "I don't want to sleep with a trans person" or "are you a trans person?" If that's how you think normal people should act, tell me how it would work. If not, then you're just sitting on some hypothetical high horse.

Its hilarious how you make up a fake quote, attribute it to me, and then tell me that your bullshit means Im wrong.

It's hilarious how you're dodging it. Those are the sum of your statements up until now. Where am I wrong? If you really think I am, go ahead and actually tell me instead of avoiding it.

lololol Im totally laughing at you and not just doing my best to save face after having no counter arguments

Yeah cool we believe you

So you are unable to provide an example of how your idea would work in actual life? Then all you have done is create an unworkable hypothetical that solves nothing. You have no point. The fact that your last five responses boil down to "lol no u" is quite telling.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...
Youre grasping real hard now that the rest of your argument has been completely destroyed, huh?

Tell me how a normal person would react to the statements "I don't want to sleep with a trans person" or "are you a trans person?" If that's how you think normal people should act, tell me how it would work. If not, then you're just sitting on some hypothetical high horse.

Its hilarious how you make up a fake quote, attribute it to me, and then tell me that your bullshit means Im wrong.

It's hilarious how you're dodging it. Those are the sum of your statements up until now. Where am I wrong? If you really think I am, go ahead and actually tell me instead of avoiding it.

shockthemonkey posted...
Youre grasping real hard now that the rest of your argument has been completely destroyed, huh?

Tell me how a normal person would react to the statements "I don't want to sleep with a trans person" or "are you a trans person?" If that's how you think normal people should act, tell me how it would work. If not, then you're just sitting on some hypothetical high horse.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...
You're totally dancing around the entire issue and just sticking with dealbreakers over and over and over. It's like you cannot actually argue the point, but you don't want to lose.

Im not. Im just using words that demonstrate how my point applies consistently to everyone. Youre not being consistent and youre constantly putting words in my mouth. You dont have counter arguments other than but theyre trans so I shouldnt have to be personally responsible! And thats a shitty argument. Do you have anything else to add?

So, I'll basically consider you in the category of out of touch with normal reality. You're just not understanding how normal life works. Please go on a nice date with a man or woman and tell them you're not into trans people (even if you are). Tell me how that works out. Tell me their facial expression when they think of what you might be implying about them.

I get it, you ran out arguments and dont have anything logical to contribute so youre just gonna flame me. Thats fine, everyone can see how hypocritical and disengenous youve been all topic.

How about responding to the hypothetical? If you aren't into transpeople and you're on a date, is that how you would put it? Do you think any date is going to actually respond well to that question?

I dont give a fuck about your how do I socialize hypotheticals.

If you cannot even rationalize your argument in the form of how it would act in real life, then it's not applicable to real life. If the way you think things should work would not go well with real people, it's faulty.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...
You're totally dancing around the entire issue and just sticking with dealbreakers over and over and over. It's like you cannot actually argue the point, but you don't want to lose.

Im not. Im just using words that demonstrate how my point applies consistently to everyone. Youre not being consistent and youre constantly putting words in my mouth. You dont have counter arguments other than but theyre trans so I shouldnt have to be personally responsible! And thats a shitty argument. Do you have anything else to add?

So, I'll basically consider you in the category of out of touch with normal reality. You're just not understanding how normal life works. Please go on a nice date with a man or woman and tell them you're not into trans people (even if you are). Tell me how that works out. Tell me their facial expression when they think of what you might be implying about them.

I get it, you ran out arguments and dont have anything logical to contribute so youre just gonna flame me. Thats fine, everyone can see how hypocritical and disengenous youve been all topic.

How about responding to the hypothetical? If you aren't into transpeople and you're on a date, is that how you would put it? Do you think any date is going to actually respond well to that question?

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

random acts of violence

People beating trans people are not RANDOM ACTS.

They're specific acts with a specific purpose for a specific reason.

Are you being purposely obtuse?

shockthemonkey posted...
You're totally dancing around the entire issue and just sticking with dealbreakers over and over and over. It's like you cannot actually argue the point, but you don't want to lose.

Im not. Im just using words that demonstrate how my point applies consistently to everyone. Youre not being consistent and youre constantly putting words in my mouth. You dont have counter arguments other than but theyre trans so I shouldnt have to be personally responsible! And thats a shitty argument. Do you have anything else to add?

So, I'll basically consider you in the category of out of touch with normal reality. You're just not understanding how normal life works. Please go on a nice date with a man or woman and tell them you're not into trans people (even if you are). Tell me how that works out. Tell me their facial expression when they think of what you might be implying about them.

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

It's very easy: people should avoid circumstances in which chance of harm is greatly increased. If you have knowledge of something, avoid it. It doesn't make the crime any less severe. It shouldn't lessen the punishment for the crime. The crime is all on the criminal, but to say a person has no fault if they could have avoided it entirely with a normal action is dumb.

Ah, so "if you have knowledge of something, avoid it". The knowledge in this case being that if you're transgender, you have a much greater chance of people killing you.

Because people can't control themselves.

Just, you tell them you're trans, and they just... lose their goddamn mind. Can't do anything about it.

Oh, look here.

https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2018/9/07/these-are-trans-people-killed-2018#media-gallery-media-4

I'm sure these 20 murdered transgender people could have prevented their deaths if only they weren't sneaky or deceptive.

Now the cruise liner has sunk. I'm sort of confused how you got to this point. Did you miss where I explicitly said random acts of violence are not something that can be avoided. Being trans in public is not something I would consider something avoidable. Living your life is not avoidable. Choosing to sleep with people without disclosing their status as trans is avoidable. They can find someone accepting of who they are.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...
If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

Thats not what Im saying. Thats what youre saying Im saying. Youre being disengenous again.

You're saying it's on the onus of the person sleeping with the transperson to actively seek out info that they are in fact trans. You're acting like that would be a completely normal thing for someone to do for every potential sexual partner, when that would most likely end most sexual encounters before they start. You are downplaying the idea entirely. Do you really think some woman would sleep with a guy who says, "by the way, I would never sleep with a transperson."

Im saying that everyone has the personal responsibility to let a potential partner know their dealbreakers. Everything else is you putting words in my mouth.

And the problem with your statement is that you're putting the onus on the deceiving end of the deception (in the biological sense). You're the one who said the person having sex with the transperson has to take responsibility for their actions. That is downplaying it.

Youve completely run out of arguments so youre putting words in my mouth repeatedly.

You have a responsibility to yourself to let a potential partner know your dealbreakers. It is not anyone elses fault for not knowing what is personally a dealbreaker for you. Do you have an actual counter argument or are you going to put more words in my mouth?

You're totally dancing around the entire issue and just sticking with dealbreakers over and over and over. It's like you cannot actually argue the point, but you don't want to lose.

Mostly enjoyable, but the padding ones got old. I somehow managed to get six of the battle ones in a row at one point. I feel like if they had simply cut down the overall number and just made them longer, that would have been better.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...
If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

Thats not what Im saying. Thats what youre saying Im saying. Youre being disengenous again.

You're saying it's on the onus of the person sleeping with the transperson to actively seek out info that they are in fact trans. You're acting like that would be a completely normal thing for someone to do for every potential sexual partner, when that would most likely end most sexual encounters before they start. You are downplaying the idea entirely. Do you really think some woman would sleep with a guy who says, "by the way, I would never sleep with a transperson."

Im saying that everyone has the personal responsibility to let a potential partner know their dealbreakers. Everything else is you putting words in my mouth.

And the problem with your statement is that you're putting the onus on the deceiving end of the deception (in the biological sense). You're the one who said the person having sex with the transperson has to take responsibility for their actions. That is downplaying it.

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

I'm victim blaming in the sense that if you go into some high crime neighborhood shouting, "oh, look at much money I have" you're most likely going to get robbed. If you go to some shady party in a shady neighborhood with a bunch of people you don't know and intake some kind of substance to the point of passing out, the likelihood of being raped is high. That does not excuse the actions of the criminals, but it's obviously a big "I told you so." If trans people know there are people who react violently yet still hide their status and they are attacked, it does not excuse the attacker, but would have been easily avoidable. What's not avoidable is some guy running up and attacking them because they are trans.

So you're a victim blamer. Got it. Thank you. That clears things up.

Good to know you can't read. If that's all you can say to that paragraph, good luck to you.

Oh there's more.

Because this is what you and others in this topic are doing.

You create scenarios. Little fantasies. Stories, even.

With all these added details like "a bad neighborhood" or "taking drugs" or "they're lying and being deceptive" so you can downplay the victim.

People do it all the time when they're victim blaming. "He was a troubled kid." "Why was she wearing that?" "They were ASKING for it."

All so that you can find justification. Justification for putting everything on them. Putting everything on a trans person to make sure they keep from getting attacked, beaten, murdered.

And who are you trying to find justification for? That guy in the OP who popped that woman out of nowhere?

No of course not. Not you. You hate violence. You'd never condone violence.

Then for who? For who would you create all these cockamamie scenarios to justify putting all the responsibility on the trans person?

Your train of logic rolled off the tracks, did a barrel roll, and landed on a cruise liner.

It's very easy: people should avoid circumstances in which chance of harm is greatly increased. If you have knowledge of something, avoid it. It doesn't make the crime any less severe. It shouldn't lessen the punishment for the crime. The crime is all on the criminal, but to say a person has no fault if they could have avoided it entirely with a normal action is dumb.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...
If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

Thats not what Im saying. Thats what youre saying Im saying. Youre being disengenous again.

You're saying it's on the onus of the person sleeping with the transperson to actively seek out info that they are in fact trans. You're acting like that would be a completely normal thing for someone to do for every potential sexual partner, when that would most likely end most sexual encounters before they start. You are downplaying the idea entirely. Do you really think some woman would sleep with a guy who says, "by the way, I would never sleep with a transperson."

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

No, you making a false equivalence does not give you some smoking gun.

You said trans people not disclosing they're trans is rape because most people think its icky icky poo poo

Now you're changing your argument because you just want to label trans people as rapists.

Again, skin color is not a penis. Trying to compare the two is not possible.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

nemu posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

No, nobody can do the same exact thing as a transperson unless they are literally pretending to be a transperson. There is no equivalent to it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Being trans is in a category of its own.

Youre completely out of arguments so now youre calling everything disengenous, huh?

Yes, I think this argument of "being trans is not at all a big deal" is either someone being out of touch with the norm (i.e. unironically saying that penises are not a gendered thing, taking the whole feminine penis meme seriously) or being purposely disingenuous.

You realize youre the only one pushing this being trans is not a big deal thing, right? I guess thatd make you the disengenous one. Ive been saying all topic that if its a dealbreaker you should take responsibility for informing your partner that. Do you not know what dealbreaker means? It means its such a big deal for you that wont continue on if you have that information. So would you like to stop being disengenous?

If you're saying it does not need to be disclosed, you are saying it's not a big deal. You are actively comparing it to other minor things which someone may not need to disclose while engaging in sexual intercourse. Other than an STD, that is the biggest thing for the normal person.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

There is no equivalent to it,

Because you want to label trans people as rapists and pretending this is true is the only way you can get away with it.

No, you making a false equivalence does not give you some smoking gun.

nemu posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

No, nobody can do the same exact thing as a transperson unless they are literally pretending to be a transperson. There is no equivalent to it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Being trans is in a category of its own.

Youre completely out of arguments so now youre calling everything disengenous, huh?

Yes, I think this argument of "being trans is not at all a big deal" is either someone being out of touch with the norm (i.e. unironically saying that penises are not a gendered thing, taking the whole feminine penis meme seriously) or being purposely disingenuous.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

But non-trans people can do the exact same thing as trans people and not be rapists but trans people are.

But you're not transphobic.

No, nobody can do the same exact thing as a transperson unless they are literally pretending to be a transperson. There is no equivalent to it, and to say otherwise is being disingenuous. Being trans is in a category of its own.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Skin color is not a penis.

So you admit you arbitrarily set the line in the sand at the exact point where you can labeltrans people rapists but you're not transphobic.

No, I'm saying skin color is not a penis. They are not equivalent. That's a faulty argument.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Being trans is not some little personal detail. It's a big physical characteristic that changes the entire dynamic of a relationship. For some people, it would not matter at all. For most, it does matter. It's quite telling that you immediately have to go to the idea that someone is transphobic for thinking being trans is sort of a big deal.

ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE!?

The point isn't that I'm saying that it's not a big deal.

It being a big deal to you is not a legal argument.

It being a big deal to most people is not a legal argument.

How is this hard for you to comprehend.

You're totally not trying to defend insane logic to label trans people as rapists though.

I agree under the current legal system, it's probably not considered rape, but it definitely should be.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Here, let's discuss the whole moronic "most people wouldnt want to have sex with a trans person so its rape" argument in analogy. Back in I think 2012 in Mississippi a poll was conducted which showed that more people in Mississippi wanted interracial marriage to be illegal than wanted it to be legal. Now obviously that's just one poll, but let's pretend thats the mysterous "most people are like me". Now, it seems logical if most people are against interracial marriage they're also against interracial sex.

And since we're talking about race let's apply the one-drop rule. So if you are one-eighth black, but it doesn't show. If you have sex with a white person in Mississippi without informing them of your race. Since we can assume a majority of people would be against such a coupling, is it rape?

Or is this moronic argument of yours ONLY about trans people but yet somehow not transphobic?

Skin color is not a penis.

SaithSayer posted...

Nibel is just trolling and you're falling for it...

Is it really trolling if people legitimately believe things like that? Even if someone is just playing a part, if the part is realistic, it sort of ceases to be true trolling.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

My narrative is take responsibility for making your dealbreakers known. Your response has been no I dont have to do that, youre weird for taking responsibility for yourself.

Yes, you downplaying it as some minor little dealbreaker is the problem. The fact that you don't at all understand the inherent distaste any regular person is going to have is worrying.

Im the one being consistent in my reasoning - everyone should disclose their dealbreakers. Youre just saying ewww no over and over and avoiding any personal responsibility.

Again, you're still acting like being trans is just some little thing, not a big deal at all.

Im being consistent regardless of what the dealbreaker is. Youve run out of arguments.

No, we're just in different places as to what constitutes normal human discourse.

Youve run out of arguments. Youre stuck using inconsistent logic because thats how you feel.

Again, that you're treating being trans like some little, minor, inconsequential dealbreaker is disingenuous.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

So, you don't want to force people to have sex with transpeople, yet you think it's completely OK for a transperson to sleep with someone who doesn't know they're trans without disclosing that. This is really backwards.

I think trans people have the exact same rights as everyone else. If I have sex with you and there's a personal detail about you I later found out that would have lead to me not having sex with you if I had known I'm not going to accuse you of rape. You want to live in a totally not transphobic world where this is true for you but not for trans people.

And you want to be able to have no personal responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen.

You are a bad person who wants trans people to be eligible for rape charges simply for being trans, but you somehow don't think you are transphobic. I can't even begin to imagine how your brain works.

Being trans is not some little personal detail. It's a big physical characteristic that changes the entire dynamic of a relationship. For some people, it would not matter at all. For most, it does matter. It's quite telling that you immediately have to go to the idea that someone is transphobic for thinking being trans is sort of a big deal.

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

I'm victim blaming in the sense that if you go into some high crime neighborhood shouting, "oh, look at much money I have" you're most likely going to get robbed. If you go to some shady party in a shady neighborhood with a bunch of people you don't know and intake some kind of substance to the point of passing out, the likelihood of being raped is high. That does not excuse the actions of the criminals, but it's obviously a big "I told you so." If trans people know there are people who react violently yet still hide their status and they are attacked, it does not excuse the attacker, but would have been easily avoidable. What's not avoidable is some guy running up and attacking them because they are trans.

So you're a victim blamer. Got it. Thank you. That clears things up.

Good to know you can't read. If that's all you can say to that paragraph, good luck to you.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

My narrative is take responsibility for making your dealbreakers known. Your response has been no I dont have to do that, youre weird for taking responsibility for yourself.

Yes, you downplaying it as some minor little dealbreaker is the problem. The fact that you don't at all understand the inherent distaste any regular person is going to have is worrying.

Im the one being consistent in my reasoning - everyone should disclose their dealbreakers. Youre just saying ewww no over and over and avoiding any personal responsibility.

Again, you're still acting like being trans is just some little thing, not a big deal at all.

Im being consistent regardless of what the dealbreaker is. Youve run out of arguments.

No, we're just in different places as to what constitutes normal human discourse.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

No, it's super basic in term of this discussion. The average person is going to be straight and not want to sleep with trans people. Like, I understand the nitty gritty is going to be a bit more complex, but we're talking about the general populace.

Which is still completely fucking irrelevant to any legal status of actions and yet its your whole fucking argument.

So, you don't want to force people to have sex with transpeople, yet you think it's completely OK for a transperson to sleep with someone who doesn't know they're trans without disclosing that. This is really backwards.

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

It's basic human biology.

Implying sexuality is "basic" when it comes to human biology is laughable. There is nothing basic about sexuality.

nemu posted...

Yes, jump to the transphobic argument. It's so transphobic to be totally fine with transpeople in most aspects of life, but how dare I and most normal people not want to sleep with them ever.

Victim blaming a trans person for their own beating is transphobia.

I don't care if you say "I'm okay with trans people". I don't believe you. The multiple messages you've posted arguing that trans people have an obligation to out themselves in every encounter to avoid assault against their own being from men who can't control themselves around them is my evidence.

No, it's super basic in term of this discussion. The average person is going to be straight and not want to sleep with trans people. Like, I understand the nitty gritty is going to be a bit more complex, but we're talking about the general populace.

I'm victim blaming in the sense that if you go into some high crime neighborhood shouting, "oh, look at much money I have" you're most likely going to get robbed. If you go to some shady party in a shady neighborhood with a bunch of people you don't know and intake some kind of substance to the point of passing out, the likelihood of being raped is high. That does not excuse the actions of the criminals, but it's obviously a big "I told you so." If trans people know there are people who react violently yet still hide their status and they are attacked, it does not excuse the attacker, but would have been easily avoidable. What's not avoidable is some guy running up and attacking them because they are trans.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

My narrative is take responsibility for making your dealbreakers known. Your response has been no I dont have to do that, youre weird for taking responsibility for yourself.

Yes, you downplaying it as some minor little dealbreaker is the problem. The fact that you don't at all understand the inherent distaste any regular person is going to have is worrying.

Im the one being consistent in my reasoning - everyone should disclose their dealbreakers. Youre just saying ewww no over and over and avoiding any personal responsibility.

Again, you're still acting like being trans is just some little thing, not a big deal at all.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

but how dare I and most normal people not want to sleep with them ever.

There's that transphobic dogwhistle again where nobody is saying a person has to sleep with a trans-person if they don't want to but then they start shitting their pants and crying about how trans people all want to have sex with them against their will.

You people are literally saying that if a transperson sleeps with an unknowing person that it's not at all a big deal. Make up your mind.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Because transpeople are, in the sense of their biological sex, not what they say they are, so it's inherently disingenuous portraying themselves in that way. I'm all for the idea that they are living with their preferred gender and whatnot, but it doesn't remove the "trans" portion of the equation. Their biological sex is relevant to the equation of people sleeping with them.

Literally nothing you say makes sense outside of a massively transphobic logic

Yes, jump to the transphobic argument. It's so transphobic to be totally fine with transpeople in most aspects of life, but how dare I and most normal people not want to sleep with them ever.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

Yes, you downplaying it as some minor little dealbreaker is the problem. The fact that you don't at all understand the inherent distaste any regular person is going to have is worrying.

There's literally no reason why people having "an inherent distaste" to something should be relevant to anything in a legal sense.

Because transpeople are, in the sense of their biological sex, not what they say they are, so it's inherently disingenuous portraying themselves in that way. I'm all for the idea that they are living with their preferred gender and whatnot, but it doesn't remove the "trans" portion of the equation. Their biological sex is relevant to the equation of people sleeping with them.

shockthemonkey posted...

My narrative is take responsibility for making your dealbreakers known. Your response has been no I dont have to do that, youre weird for taking responsibility for yourself.

Yes, you downplaying it as some minor little dealbreaker is the problem. The fact that you don't at all understand the inherent distaste any regular person is going to have is worrying.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

That's dumb. Just because someone is physically convincing, or alcohol fills in the gap, does not change that they're a trans person. This idea that "they found them attractive so it's ok" is leaning very close to certain other statements. Hormone therapy and plastic surgery are only going to get better and better from here on out. It doesn't change the fact that they have the body of a man or a woman.

It doesnt matter what your dealbreaker is - its your responsibility to make that dealbreaker know or else its your fault that your partner wasnt aware of it. Period. Quit trying to justify everyone else catering to you, thats not their job.

No, the average person is not going to go, "hey, just in case on the small chance you're a trans person, I have no interest in being in a relationship with you." That is dumb. Stop acting like being trans is just some little minor thing. It is a big deal. I imagine most trans people are good natured enough to realize that, so this will never be a big problem socially. But for the small amount that are either jackasses or those who fall into this very weird mindset you guys have, this is a problem.

Your entire counter argument is I dont want to take that responsibility so youre dumb. Grow up. Your dealbreakers are yours to deal with. No one is deceiving you by not assuming them. Its no one elses fault.

You keep using "take responsibility." The trans person is the one dressing up/physically modifying themselves to be something they're not (on a biological level). They are the ones putting up a front (on a biological level). Not wanting to sleep with someone of the opposite biological sex is not a "dealbreaker." It is something people most people will fundamentally not want to do at all. Dealbreakers are deciding not to pursue a relationship because the person has kids or not wanting to be with someone because their religion doesn't match yours. You can still end up sleeping with a person with kids or a different religion just fine, not pursuing anything further. That is nothing akin to sleeping with a transperson.

Its not a dealbreaker just because its a total dealbreaker is really fucking stupid logic. Anything to put the responsibility on someone else!

You keep downplaying the idea like it's not at all a big deal. You're either completely out of touch with what is OK with the average person, or you're being purposefully disingenuous to stick with your narrative.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

That's dumb. Just because someone is physically convincing, or alcohol fills in the gap, does not change that they're a trans person. This idea that "they found them attractive so it's ok" is leaning very close to certain other statements. Hormone therapy and plastic surgery are only going to get better and better from here on out. It doesn't change the fact that they have the body of a man or a woman.

It doesnt matter what your dealbreaker is - its your responsibility to make that dealbreaker know or else its your fault that your partner wasnt aware of it. Period. Quit trying to justify everyone else catering to you, thats not their job.

No, the average person is not going to go, "hey, just in case on the small chance you're a trans person, I have no interest in being in a relationship with you." That is dumb. Stop acting like being trans is just some little minor thing. It is a big deal. I imagine most trans people are good natured enough to realize that, so this will never be a big problem socially. But for the small amount that are either jackasses or those who fall into this very weird mindset you guys have, this is a problem.

Your entire counter argument is I dont want to take that responsibility so youre dumb. Grow up. Your dealbreakers are yours to deal with. No one is deceiving you by not assuming them. Its no one elses fault.

You keep using "take responsibility." The trans person is the one dressing up/physically modifying themselves to be something they're not (on a biological level). They are the ones putting up a front (on a biological level). Not wanting to sleep with someone of the opposite biological sex is not a "dealbreaker." It is something people most people will fundamentally not want to do at all. Dealbreakers are deciding not to pursue a relationship because the person has kids or not wanting to be with someone because their religion doesn't match yours. You can still end up sleeping with a person with kids or a different religion just fine, not pursuing anything further. That is nothing akin to sleeping with a transperson.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

That's dumb. Just because someone is physically convincing, or alcohol fills in the gap, does not change that they're a trans person. This idea that "they found them attractive so it's ok" is leaning very close to certain other statements. Hormone therapy and plastic surgery are only going to get better and better from here on out. It doesn't change the fact that they have the body of a man or a woman.

It doesnt matter what your dealbreaker is - its your responsibility to make that dealbreaker know or else its your fault that your partner wasnt aware of it. Period. Quit trying to justify everyone else catering to you, thats not their job.

No, the average person is not going to go, "hey, just in case on the small chance you're a trans person, I have no interest in being in a relationship with you." That is dumb. Stop acting like being trans is just some little minor thing. It is a big deal. I imagine most trans people are good natured enough to realize that, so this will never be a big problem socially. But for the small amount that are either jackasses or those who fall into this very weird mindset you guys have, this is a problem.

nemu posted...

The fact that the majority of people are going to care is the major point here.

It is the worthless and stupid point you people are holding on to to defend your inane position, I agree.

What exactly is your point? Are you saying its a violation of their privacy to have to disclose something as important as being transgender? I feel like you don't understand the level of discomfort the average person is going to have in having sex with someone of the opposite physical gender.

I really hate that quoting doesn't open a new page when you're indecisive about how you want to reply. And somehow I just replied instead of editing my post. I'm quite dumb.

CyricZ posted...

nemu posted...

Most men aren't going to want to sleep with someone who has ever had a penis. Most women aren't going to want to sleep with anyone who has ever had a vagina.

Lot of assumptions here. I'm of the "don't knock it until you've tried it" type. I have my preferences, certainly, but claiming that you understand the complex nature of sexuality for the majority of 7 billion people, some aspects they're not willing to admit to themselves, is a bit arrogant.

Encountering a trans person is pretty rare, certainly, so you ask yourself the question, "Is this worth a try?" If the answer is no, then be on your way and life goes on.

It goes back to the question: did this man attack this trans woman:

1) Because she lied?

or

2) Because he initially felt attraction for her and the fact that she turned out to be trans was so abhorrent to his sensibilities that violence was the answer he came to cope with the revelation?

Of course, we'll never know the truth, but the fact that people lie to each other every day and we don't have assault charges up the butt for that leads to assume one more than the other.

Still, it's just an assumption.

It's basic human biology. I don't know why you're getting so uppity about it. There are people who don't care at all, but most people are going to care. The fact that the majority of people are going to care is the major point here. I don't agree with the violence, though I do think she could have done the reasonable thing to avoid it (as in don't walk down a high crime neighborhood with money 100s hanging out of your pockets), but I do agree with his anger. Being trans comes with a physical change. That is a big no-go for many people.

Because there are still going to be plenty of good releases for the next few years. Remember how long the PS3 went after the PS4 launched? The best time to switch over is when they start doing the downgraded releases for the older system.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

If a trans woman didnt want to have sex with a transphobic asshole, can she claim rape if a dude didnt tell her he was a transphobic asshole beforehand? Or does that not count?

Why do people try to act like having the physical characteristics of another sex is at all the same as someones thoughts and opinions? You do realize a trans person will always be a trans person, right? Just because I will gladly call a trans woman she does not mean shes not a trans woman.

No one cares about your deflection

How is pointing out a false equivalence a deflection? There is a big difference between thoughts and words and a cosmetic physical alteration.

You either have a responsibility to tell strangers your dealbreakers or you dont. Youre trying to pick and choose.

No, considering the majority of the population is not going to want to be with a trans person, they are the ones who need to disclose things. Regardless of how someone feels about the whole "people are what they say they are" mentality, it does not change the fact that there is an opposite set of genitals or a surgically modified set of genitals in their pants.

Accept some personal responsibility instead of assuming everyone should read your damn mind.

That's dumb. Just because someone is physically convincing, or alcohol fills in the gap, does not change that they're a trans person. This idea that "they found them attractive so it's ok" is leaning very close to certain other statements. Hormone therapy and plastic surgery are only going to get better and better from here on out. It doesn't change the fact that they have the body of a man or a woman.

NibeIungsnarf posted...

nemu posted...

No, considering the majority of the population is not going to want to be with a trans person, they are the ones who need to disclose things

There's literally no logic behind this position other than "Yeah but there's more of me so I have more rights than you!"

It's not that hard. Most men aren't going to want to sleep with someone who has ever had a penis. Most women aren't going to want to sleep with anyone who has ever had a vagina. There are people who are fine with sleeping with one, the other, or both. There is nothing wrong with that. The fact that there are people who don't want to do so means the people who have such characteristics should be letting all partners know so no mistakes are made.

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

If a trans woman didnt want to have sex with a transphobic asshole, can she claim rape if a dude didnt tell her he was a transphobic asshole beforehand? Or does that not count?

Why do people try to act like having the physical characteristics of another sex is at all the same as someones thoughts and opinions? You do realize a trans person will always be a trans person, right? Just because I will gladly call a trans woman she does not mean shes not a trans woman.

No one cares about your deflection

How is pointing out a false equivalence a deflection? There is a big difference between thoughts and words and a cosmetic physical alteration.

You either have a responsibility to tell strangers your dealbreakers or you dont. Youre trying to pick and choose.

No, considering the majority of the population is not going to want to be with a trans person, they are the ones who need to disclose things. Regardless of how someone feels about the whole "people are what they say they are" mentality, it does not change the fact that there is an opposite set of genitals or a surgically modified set of genitals in their pants.

It's really only a batman clone if all you do is dodge and counter on the ground. Using the combat to its full extent really opens up the battlefield to a lot more options.

shockthemonkey posted...

nemu posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

If a trans woman didnt want to have sex with a transphobic asshole, can she claim rape if a dude didnt tell her he was a transphobic asshole beforehand? Or does that not count?

Why do people try to act like having the physical characteristics of another sex is at all the same as someones thoughts and opinions? You do realize a trans person will always be a trans person, right? Just because I will gladly call a trans woman she does not mean shes not a trans woman.

No one cares about your deflection

How is pointing out a false equivalence a deflection? There is a big difference between thoughts and words and a cosmetic physical alteration.

shockthemonkey posted...

If a trans woman didnt want to have sex with a transphobic asshole, can she claim rape if a dude didnt tell her he was a transphobic asshole beforehand? Or does that not count?

Why do people try to act like having the physical characteristics of another sex is at all the same as someones thoughts and opinions? You do realize a trans person will always be a trans person, right? Just because I will gladly call a trans woman she does not mean shes not a trans woman.

3rd_Best_Master posted...

Moonves4Prison posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

"This is rape"

"Prove it"

"Here's a link that doesnt have anything to do with anything"

"That link doesnt have anything to do with anything"

"You're literally defending rape"

So explain how a hetero person can affirmatively consent to having sex with a person he thought was a woman who is lying about being a woman.

Did he sign some sort of waiver insisting that he only wanted to have sex with cis-gender women? Cause gay people seem to have plenty of stories where they managed to have sex with otherwise straight people. A lot of those stories are immortalized in court records where the Gay Panic defense has been used.

Being gay is a mental state only. Being trans is a physical and mental penomenon. They are not equivalent.

The violence is not justified, but I will victim blame. Even if it is not mandated by law, they should always disclose their status for their own safety and because the majority of people will not want to be in a relationship with them.

Yeah, super fun. I haven't seen if Venom has been implied to have happened in-universe yet, but if not really interested what they could do with symbiote powers and/or playable Venom in a sequel.