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AOC spent years coming out against party measures publicly, practically livetweeted every dispute she had with other party members, immediately ran to social media with any issue, supported a number of unpopular measures that hurt the party publicly and championed numerous primaries against other colleagues. These were all things that came up when she wanted to go for a higher committee assignment.

You can say she was right to do it, but she annoyed a lot of her colleagues and a lot of them aren't inclined to vote for her in leadership roles as a result. There's a reason she stopped doing that.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Through the holidays when the entire Federal workforce isn't being paid?
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
3 is better than 1 because with 3 you at least have a chance of winning something and project a better appearance
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
TMOG posted...
I can't answer this with anything except pure speculation, which I'm not going to do. Guessing is absolutely pointless. If the chat messages are fake, they could have been faked at any point, either before Discord turned them over (as I mentioned, they weren't publicly released with any kind of timestamp to show when they had been sent) or after, but before being turned over to the defense.

This is the point where occam's razor needs to take over. The significant other cooperated with law enforcement and confirmed them, too. The guy posted in a Discord he did it, too. To multiple people.

And the inconsistencies I pointed out are more than just "writing weird". It's more like they seem to have been written by multiple people with their own writing style, or trying to emulate what they think somebody would write like in that situation.

Some people write strangely. This isn't evidence
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
UnsteadyOwl posted...
Johnson was kinda pushed into a corner. The Arizona AG had filed a lawsuit because by refusing to swear Grijalva in he was denying the people in her district representation in Congress.

That and with the end of the shutdown coming, he'd lost all excuses
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Hejiru posted...
Do the unredacted files even exist anymore? I feel like any evidence that would incriminate Trump was probably sent to the paper shredder a long time ago.

Anything like these would be heavily digitized. You CAN'T get rid of them, it's not physically possible
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
SSj4Wingzero posted...
Not just possible...think about it this way....the Republicans care more about not releasing the Epstein files than they do about defunding social services, and they really care about defunding social services.

Even at the most "innocent" case of this? The President of the United States had a decades' long relationship with a serial child predator while knowing what he was
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
I'm just gonna say that this also indicatesTrump is lying that he cut ties with Epstein when he said he did.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
The dems do deserve to be bashed for this. Even LightSnake has said that it's understandable for people to be mad at the dems for this.

My initial post came off stronger than I intended because I was sad and venting and I explained what I mean. That's it.

I do! They communicated terribly and handled it very poorly. The whole thing was a mess of optics and a failure, even if they couldn't keep it up much longer.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Lonestar2000 posted...
No, Trump was abusing kids too.

Very possible. I'm just saying what we know now beyond reasonable doubt
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
So basically we know Trump knew Epstein was abusing young girls and he did nothing except helped cover for him
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Just a note, she immediately added her name to the petition for release
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Smashingpmkns posted...
You're out of your mind if you think the Republicans wouldnt have caved within the next few weeks, let alone held strong all the way to the fucking 2026 midterms lmao

based on what evidence? All the times theyve caved is when Dems had some lead or majority
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Oh boy here comes the who meeee?! Routine
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Garioshi posted...
What

garioshi, what do you not get about losing an election having consequences?
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Excellent news
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Garioshi posted...
Okay then, why fight the Republicans at all if you're just going to unilaterally accept that there's no way to save the Obamacare subsidies? Go lay down in chalk outline of yourself.

You were shitting on Dems through the election, too! That was the big fight! We lost it! There are consequences to that!
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
TMOG posted...
His chat messages read like the most obviously written-to-be-evidence things in history. They don't read like how anyone actually writes a text message, especially in the heat of the moment like that, and to the best of my knowledge they were never released with timestamps to prove when they were sent. There's also not a lot of consistency in how they were written on either side of the exchange in terms of things like capitalization, apostrophe/ellipsis use, punctuation, length, and basically grammar overall. If they were sent in text messages, then the autocorrect would either correct every use of "Im" to "I'm" or it wouldn't correct any of them, and it would either capitalize the beginning of every text/sentence or it wouldn't. And the fact that the word "I" is always capitalized in every text tells me that the autocorrect was on to catch mistakes like that, but both these things are very inconsistent and change from text to text.

tl'dr: I can't believe the texts are real, because they don't look or sound real.


Who faked them? They were turned over by Discord. They've been turned over to Defense attorneys. Experts are going to review them on both sides.

Yeah, he writes weird. I expect him to be weird. He shot a guy, that's weird. Lots of people write weird.

EDIT: Also it felt way too convenient that the shooter's roommate was also trans and his lover during a time when the cult started really ramping up their anti-trans hate campaign.

That's literally the cause of why he hated Kirk, apparently. It's not that "convenient." You're mistaking the cause and effect
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
There's a recurring trend with Garioshi and that specific brand of leftist:

"This bad thing is happening! We can blame it on the GOP, that's GOOD!"

"This thing is happening and we've decided it's the Democrats' bad thing! It's BAD and the Democrats' fault!"
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Yeah, but nothing really came of that
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
HipsterSora posted...
i'm not saying it happened i'm just saying that i'd believe it. like its not out of the realm of possibility, unlike him being alive. i'd want to see evidence of course

It just seems a little weird there's like one high profile right wing pundit murder, nothing really happens as a result beyond a wave of Republicans mandating a mourning period and having people fired all over the place for a month, and then...nothing.

And that they waste this on Charlie Kirk
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Prestoff posted...
Great episodes with some banger esque songs (the only weak one was Husks, imo) but I think having an 8 episode format is not going to be doing much justice to the story they're trying to tell here. I feel that there's going to be too much that they will have to wrap up in 2 episodes, which will lead to the exact problem I had with the first season.

With that said, I'm glad that there's an answer to why Vox's plans seem to be going way too perfectly. It's clear Alastar is going to try to get the other V's to rebel against him since Alastar is really using Vox's ego/narcissism against himself. I can't help but feel that episode 6 could've easily been settled if the Heaven people just showed Pentious being in Heaven, it wouldn't get everyone from Hell but I think it would've put a massive damper to the rebellion/war that is about to happen. Also glad to see Vaggie put Charlie in her place and see them both grow. This show is definitely pushing HuskxAngel Dust together (I'm all for it) and apparently Niffty with that other scientist guy together as well.

At this point it's a little hard because Vox has made it less about redemption and more "they're offering gift baskets in return for genocide."
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
HashtagSEP posted...
I can literally never take somebody that says "Charlie Kirk is alive, they faked his death for a false flag" seriously ever again.

Yeah, sometimes crazy shit just happens. This is America: shooting someone because you don't like him happens literally every day and nobody notices. This was just happening to someone famous
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
I will note that people frequently say "we want them to fight, even if they lose" but then they get mad and give no credit when the losing happens.

I'll also note it tends to come from people who definitively not facing the loss of food and benefits and paychecks.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
That he was assassinated as a false flag. Nothing happened. they caught the guy. His chat messages were black and white. The dude is being prosecuted.

People have gotten too conspiratorial
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
HipsterSora posted...
yeah this. Dude's dead 100%, but i'd believe he was assassinated as a strategic political move

more likely it was just an opportunity to do false flag rather than a planned moment

This is just a very silly theory.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
GrandConjuraton posted...
I don't know anything about the Tupac situation, but I've seen too many things about the Charlie Kirk situation that lead me to believe the whole thing was faked.

He was shot in public. There were literally hundreds of witnesses. His blood is pouring out of his severed carotid on camera.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Garioshi posted...
I'm not blaming the GOP being evil on the Democrats, I'm criticizing Democrats for ceding ground to the Republicans (which enables them to do more evil) and being horrific opposition to them, which is their default state.

Ignoring all the times they do, indeed, fight and beat Republicans. In elections and in legislation. It's why Biden's signature legislation even excited to begin with.

You might ntoice there are now 47 of them in the Senate
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
A_Good_Boy posted...
At this point I'm thinking it was just to energize the base going into the election.

You and Panda Master are the only people I've ever heard of that come to CE or gamefaqs in general just to talk to themselves.

If you want more people to criticize republicans then why don't you make more topics about them? Instead of this one where we (attempt) to talk about Dem strategy we can talk about Republicans instead. If you make the topic I'll try to be the 1st to reply.

I make topics about GOP misconduct and failures all the time!
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Garioshi posted...
I genuinely do not know what to say to you aside of "the highest order of contempt for the GOP is implied".

Then ACT LIKE IT.

You post bad faith actors, almost all your topics are shitting on Dems and ignoring the GOP. You only attack them when pressed on it. It's not "implied," they seem a complete afterthought.

If the Democrats fail to adequately fight back against an administration that wants to usher an era of unparalleled suffering into the world, they deserve to be criticized for it. I'm not some unwitting tool of propagandists and it's frankly insulting that you think I have no agency in what I do. If you have a problem with what I'm saying beyond "you're attacking Democrats too much", then say it.

This is a classic motte-Bailey fallacy. You're not just criticizing the Dems, you're focusing almost exclusively on them and enacting a standard with no end goal or way to meet it. You made no topics whatsoever in the longest shutdown in US history giving Dems any sort of credit (Quite the opposite actually), you only jumped at the chance to attack them after the fight failed, with no indication you recognize what being a numerical minority means.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Garioshi posted...
Christ, what do you want from me? Do you want me to preface every single thing I say with "the Republicans are evil and they hate life and they want you dead" just so you know that I know that? How many times have I said this to you? If I had a pro-GOP agenda, do you think I would be criticizing the Democrats like this? What kind of master plan do you think I have to make the Democrats unpopular? They're already as unpopular as they could possibly be!

I don't think you have a pro-GOP agenda. I think you listen to people who do too much and don't relize it because it's being couched in progressive trappings. You do much more attacking the Democrats than the GOP, whether you realize it or not
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
A_Good_Boy posted...
I had my doubts going in, but Schumer managed to drag this out to 40 days and that's pretty commendable. But that just exposes a glaring flaw when Dems choose to engage in this sort of strategy. They actually give a shit, so when people start going unpaid and get hungry they're more than likely going to fold. So all Republicans have to do is just wait out the first missed check and they'll extract whatever concessions they need out of Democrats.

Yeah, the pressure is asymmetrical because federal workers skew Democratic.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
I don't think surrendering without a fight is a good idea, but a 40 day shutdown is, by definition, a fight. The issue is that fight isn't static in circumstance. Federal shutdowns mean people aren't getting paid
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
A_Good_Boy posted...
Why do the shutdown at all then?

To try to force something, hold off what the GOP wanted to do, and also keep going to win last Tuesday.

We keep hearing "they need to FIGHT" but people don't seem well equipped to what happens when they lose those fights since they have very little power and people just treat the GOP like a natural disaster with no agency.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Ivynn posted...
They had the advantage and the momentum and squandered it all for nothing.

What advantage and momentum? What does this mean? What was the endgame? How was the advantage and momentum going to end?
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Ivynn posted...
It's one thing to lose.

It's another to choose to lose when you could have won.

That hasn't happened here
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
A_Good_Boy posted...
Which makes it weird that they try to fight in the first place, I guess.

The problem with fighting from a disadvantage? Sometimes you lose
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Takuya_Lee posted...
Kind of works, except Naruto also had the power and ability to beat down his opponent if talking didn't work. The old guard Dems don't have that.

That's what happens when there's only 47 of them
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
Which progressive sources?

Klippenstein, Grim, the Intercept, etc.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
You misunderstand. The Republicans are the ones doing the murdering. But due to this the dems have optically taken ownership of all the suffering during the shutdown and the results. How much you think that will affect them or the midterms is up to you, but they basically made themselves look pathetic at a time when they really need to not look pathetic.

TC never seems to hold the Republicans accountable, because he gets his sources from ostensible progressives that work for right wing billionaires and do nothing but spread "Dems Suck" messages to help them
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
McgeesAlice808 posted...
Who's this referring to?

AOC
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Garioshi posted...
Incalculably less, yes. I don't think you fully grasp how fucked a whole tenth of the population is now.

Because Republicans were elected. Garioshi, that is the main thing you don't seem to put out there. You spend MUCH more time attacking Dems for how they react to what the GOP do
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
I do not have the answer to these questions.

I do not have any proof, nor any way of saying with certainty what would have happened had the dems not caved.

But at this point all the suffering was for nothing. And hundreds of thousands will die. And I just can't bring myself to accept that.

That's what happened when Trump was elected.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
Honestly, I am just unable to imagine the shut down lasting until the new year. If the dems held firm, I don't see it when it would destroy the biggest money making time of the year.

It was already the longest shutdown in history.

Trump nuked the economy for no good reason at all, too. It didn't change their actions
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
Courts and/or corporate donors.

Which corporate donors? Why haven't these donors done this before?

Which courts and under which statute/court precedent?
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
I do not entirely agree. While Trump is a wild card, he is not the master of the Republican party. And while there are now way more ideological nazis, white nationalists, and other fascist demons than there were back in the neocon days, they all get their money from the same corporate donors and their ideology is accepted by the ruling class so long as it is profitable.

I don't know how you can say at this point Trump isn't the master of the GOP, Again, it's not 2012 anymore. Trump has done things that hurt the rich as well as everyone else. What he says goes, no matter what the donors say.

I simply do not believe that the Republicans would have just never backed down, and the damage that will be done as the result of this caving will be far worse than the damage that would have happened even if the shut down lasted into the new year.

Again: if they didn't? They weren't after the longest shutdown in history.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
Shocker
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
So what I mean specifically is that democrats won't be seen as accountable for the suffering of the shutdown as they try to ensure that the ACA subsidies go through. Republicans are immune to the consequences of their action, so them being blamed unfortunately does not mean much outside of maybe turning a few of their voters against them, but it means the dems are able to continue the shutdown without the bad optics.


The problem is "continuing the shutdown" puts it as no end in sight as Republicans dweren't going to cave. There is a point where things with a shutdown were bad and unsustainable and frankly, we were hitting it. I'm not sure accountability here means much a year before the actual election. Ar eoptics here back? Yes.

I don't think the GOP would willingly cave on the ACA subsidies. But in the face of a united Dem front, I do feel that the GOP's masters would push them to cave eventually because this shutdown going into the Thanksgiving/Holiday season would cost them a lot of money.

The GOP has one master and that's Trump. And he was telling them, repeatedly, not to cave. Indeed, he was pushing them to kill the filibuster for that.

Also, it's not 2012 anymore. The GOP aren't just corporate owned. Ideology is very important to them now. Especially when some of Trump's measures they champion are godawful for the economy and hurt everyone.
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
It means that they would have to answer for any consequences. More important, the dems were not being blamed, which means they would not have to answer for them, which is good because the dems have been in an optics black hole and need every win they can, or, to avoid every loss they can.

Again...specifically.

What does this mean? An explanation. Let's agree the optics were awful (they were). When you say "Republicans will be blamed," what does this mean at all? What avenue is used to hold them accountable? Will the government be shut down until November 2026

I feel for everyone suffering, my parents would have been in trouble had my state not stepped in with snap and I was prepared to have to financially support them (more than I do now), and I know this sounds callus and I don't want it to be but: sometimes you need to suffer a little in the short term to avoid massive suffering in the long term.


Americans hate to suffer in any term. Which is now the great difficulty Trump has had, is many people are suffering.

The SNAP recipients and federal workers were unfairly having to suffer for the Republicans and that is terrible, but now some 50K per year will be dying because the dems caved. By helping these people in the short term they have sentenced countless more to death.


Personally, I'm blaming the Republicans more, myself. If they were not in power, this would not be happening. Something that, again, Garioshi has left out of the equation entirely. Also, it wasn't just "suffering," but there were very real chances that people would also be doing without SNAP, losing homes, etc.

And at the day the ddemocrats will be blamed for it. Which means they will suffer the consequences. Will this tank the midterms in 2 years? It's way too early to say that, but this is going to depress the hell out of Dem voters and potential dem voters and embolden Rep voters, as well as teach Senate Repubs that all they need to do is wait the dems out and they will cave, giving them less incentive to work with the dems.

I am not of the opinion this will be remembered much next year. But I keep hearing "People were blaming Republicans!"

Democrats literally shut the government down for the longest period in US history and. it didn't change much at all. There was no mechanism to remove Republicans from power or stop them being evil. That is what I simply don't get: we weren't on the cusp of victory and "people were blaming Republicans" just doesn't seem to end with anything becaue the election wasn't for over a year. At some point, we need to say concretely what we expect to happen, because "GOP caves on the ACA subsidies" wasn't happening
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
El_Dustino posted...
It means the dems have no reason to back off. The Republicans would be the ones having to answer for the pain and suffering that THEY are causing. The dems had no hand in any of the consequences.

Here's a question: What does "being blamed" mean? What avenue was available to hold them accountable for it?

This also doesn't change a bit part of the equation: pain and suffering is happening and some don't want it to. Kaine has been a civil servant his entire career, I don't doubt he was at leaat partially motivated by a lot of federal workers in Virginia starting to reach the point of going into foreclosure
Ring the bells that still can ring/Forget your perfect offering/There is a crack in everything/That's how the light gets in."- RIP, Leonard Cohen
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