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Zero_Destroyer posted...
No, this was real. NYT loved to boost never-Trump Republicans.

https://www.vox.com/culture/360909/jd-vance-how-true-is-hillbilly-elegy-classism

At one time, liberal and conservative centrists alike hailed Vances bestselling 2016 memoir of making it out of rural, poverty-stricken Appalachia, transforming himself from a tempestuous teen into a successful Yale law school grad.

The Vox piece is a pretty good overview of the book, but it also has a link to the original Vox article where Ezra Klein had a sitdown with JD Vance and promoted him. Vox is probably the very best of the liberal media sites and even they kind of promoted the guy. But here are the other ones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/books/review-in-hillbilly-elegy-a-compassionate-analysis-of-the-poor-who-love-trump.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/hillbilly-elegy-made-jd-vance-the-voice-of-the-rust-belt-but-does-he-want-that-job/2017/02/06/fa6cd63c-e882-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html

Like, I'm honestly very surprised that everyone forgot what a phenomena his book was. You couldn't go anywhere on the internet without it being hailed by a liberal publication. I think some of the more honest ones like Vox very clearly had buyers remorse and look at the book differently now, but originally reviews for it were overwhelmingly positive. After the movie came out, everyone was kind of like, "Why was this even a thing?". Seeing more and more of Vance in right-wing politics certainly didn't help, it made the book look just like another grift.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Starks posted...
A chunk is missing towards the top. Not much.

Yeah, I don't see a "chunk" missing at all. I don't see anything here.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Error1355 posted...
I'll just consider you a bullshitter then if you're just here to insult instead of actually discuss this. You made a claim that seemed ridiculous to me, I made a 'wat' comment, you replied back implying you have to 'dumb it down' for me then when I ask for further sources for your claims you just say I don't know shit and further insult me.

"Wat" is an incredibly rude and dismissive comment to make. If you found my claim incredible and wanted a serious response, you should have said something less dismissive to begin with. And then, you used your power to moderate me after you provoked me. Like, you've won, I'm not going to interact with you further. I can't deal with the power imbalance here where you want respect but don't want to even give it initially. I never started this interaction.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Humble_Novice posted...
I'm a liberal and I certainly did NOT like his book at all.

I'm talking more about the ones who actually write articles. Nowadays all liberals hate his book, but when it came out it was to pretty much universal acclaim among the media classes because all the media liberals wanted a sympathetic explanation for Trumpism.

All I'm saying is he has a similar origin story to the intellectual dark web, which was also promoted endlessly on the pages of the New York Times and other "liberal" papers back when they all first came out. I think by the time the movie had come out, most of them had turned against it, but the damage of promoting Vance was already done. Well, who knows, looking at how unpopular he is today, maybe its a good thing.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Humble_Novice posted...
So far, a lot of pro-Palestinian accounts want Maduro to stay as leader of the country.

Probably because the choice is usually Maduro or a US puppet, who is inevitably part of the far right. Just like us, the Venezuelans are never really given a choice.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
TC tagged appropriately.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Humble_Novice posted...
Well, MAGA isn't opposed to a political dynasty so long as it's their side.

It isn't, but Don Jr. is coked up to hell. When Trump is gone, they aren't going to put him in front of the cameras anymore.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
More interestingly, there won't be any heir apparent to Trumpism. Vance will have been a spent force. DeSatan embarrassed himself early on. Who else is going to take it over exactly? Don Jr?
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
BucketCat posted...
wtf is this guy??? i keep asking, but how is he a real person???

the guy is a caricature. wtf lmao. there's no way he's real.

He is a Yale grad playing a Trumper on TV, like, this is to be expected.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
These people build mythologies around themselves and portray their heroes in art as being muscular, healthy, ect, so I'm sorry, but its pretty important to take them back down to reality. Trump is a very unhealthy person, and people need to know it.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Smiffwilm posted...
Only one?

Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Starting a culture war against people without children is certainly a choice.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Error1355 posted...
wat

Let me dumb it down for you. Liberals loved his book. Liberals promoted his book everywhere. Conservatives saw this. Conservatives realized he was a grifter. Conservatives funded him. Now he is a big deal.

Everyone is saying "Ohio", but like, the dude spent most of his time on the coasts. He barely even visits that state, which is one of the reasons why he did so poorly and almost botched his senate campaign. JD Vance didn't come from Ohio, he came from the conservative "intellectual" movement and right wing billionaires like Peter Thiel.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Ironically, he was promoted by the liberals at the New York Times and other legacy media who loved his book, kind of like every member of the "intellectual dark web". That is kind of a pipeline for right-wing billionaires to start pumping money into these people because they realize they have some ability to get the attention of liberals and get them to spread their message.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Keemstar is a huge Trumper, so I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt. The dude isn't revealing anything, he is trying to fight a culture war.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
They are all high on their own supply. He was picked by the right-wing billionaires because he is the head of their conservative "intellectual" movement. His job is to feed all of their bad ideas to the public, so of course he was going to be in a privileged position here with them.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
shnangyboos posted...
Al long as it was only some glass or bullet shrapnel that hit his ear, no big deal, right fellas. But of course, even if it was a bullet, it only grazed him, so no big deal, right fellas. It's no big deal no matter what actually happened.

Right wing violence is a pretty big deal, even if it did happen to an awful person who is a major cause of it in this country. I condemn the violence that right wingers perpetuate.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Wouldn't surprise me if Trump kept a some fake blood on him just for in case something like this happened. There is absolutely no evidence that he was even injured.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Honestly, I've always felt like Soldier Boy was both the most interesting and likable villain they've had.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
The judge said Williams had threatened to terrorize the health facility and delivered on the pledge with violence and physical force, preventing some people from getting health services that day.
An indictment said Williams boasted on her livestream of the protest: "This is going to be a wonderful day. We are going to terrorize this place. And I want the manager to hear me say that. We are going to terrorize this place. More people are coming.

Call her what she is. She is a terrorist. She knows she is a terrorist too. 3 years is far too light a sentence.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
He is so dumb, its hilarious. This may be a worse pick than Palin was. Its even funnier because this is the conservative movement's leading "intellectual".
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
No, but its funnier enough to keep up this bad news cycle for the GOP, so people should pretend the answer is maybe anyways.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
I've met a lot of their relatives, the energy vampires.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
archizzy posted...
I definitely think he regrets Vance, no doubt. But if he was going to make a move anticipating a tight race Rubio would be the smart move. Hopefully he doesnt do that. I was so glad when he picked Vance. What a dumb move haha.

That's why the fact that this is specifically about Nikki is so funny, because if he does ditch Vance for Rubio, all the Haley fans will be so salty.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
This would be really funny, but I don't think it will happen. But its a funny news cycle. Dems should continually concern troll about this just like Republicans did about Biden dropping out.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
"Breeding" is the most basic ass fetish there is. Like, I fully support kink shaming here, it should be just embarrassing to tell anyone that is your fetish.

It should also be noted that this is the number one fetish (Besides the other very illegal one) for people like Epstein and Elon Musk and pretty much every other evil rich person, to the point where they don't even try to hide it in public and instead try to justify it with all sorts of nonsense.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Darkinsanity1 posted...
No, but then I don't really believe the allegation anyways. Even if it were to be true, there is probably facts and context that is not yet known.

Lmao, what fact would make stealing from children all of a sudden magically okay?

Your entire argument here is that you are happily scammed and don't want to learn otherwise, and even if someone forced you to learn about the scam, you'd just make up an excuse to pretend it isn't bad. People like you are beyond help.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Tora_Sami posted...
Like I don't even know what to say. She doesn't believe much of any of the project 2025 stuff is going to happen and the worse that will happen is Trump is going to be buddy buddy with foreign countries doing his business deals. Doesn't think project 2025 is going to happen cause too many people will vote against Republicans if they do try that stuff.....

She believes Dems will just burn money with there regulations and she dislikes the fishing regulations they just put in place which doubles seafood costs or something. She thinks a lot of the tax stuff they are going to do is just embezzlement....like I don't even know what to say to her....

Just tell her dems won't do any of that stuff because too many people will vote against Dems if they do. Problem solved. Also, as others have said, don't be friends with morons.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
noisetank posted...
probably buy a gfaqs account

Yeah, its sad, but they did this all the time for uninterrupted trolling.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
ArchonKnight posted...
Explain "uncharismatic challenger" being "likely true." Does that mean Trump is uncharismatic? Because he actually owns a fucking cult, so idk if I'd say he's a charismatic guy, but I wouldn't say he's "uncharismatic."

I think they mean charismatic in the sense of a majority of America likes them. There aren't really going to be any people who qualify as that any more of course.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
GrandConjuraton posted...
Colorblind?

I'm not at all. I can see a difference, just not a very clear one. It gets better on the actual link. Maybe its the dark background that makes it hard to differentiate.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Could they have used harder to differentiate color gradiations for their key?
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
ultimate_reaver posted...
the victim said they were not groomed and most of people I see pushing that angle are following it with "die t slur die" and shit on Twitter, so I don't really care. the shadman thing means nothing on its own unless you want to cancel a ton more people, a ton of people just thought he was a funny edgy guy until a few years ago

I mean, his "funny, edgy" stuff was drawing children in pornography. Its really bad. Everyone involved with him should at least show some understanding of why it was wrong by now.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
TheHoldSteady posted...
Obama had one good election in 2008 and was never able to replicate the same turnout ever again. Republicans took over Congress, where he got stonewalled constantly by Mitch McConnell and others

He couldn't even get all of the healthcare past that he wanted when he had a supermajority

I mean not all of that is his fault, but he's far from a political mastermind

I mean, Obama had a very winning strategy in 2008 to be fair, but he also purposefully gave it up to assuage members of the party machine who felt that his approach was too populist, so it was also a purposeful decision to basically shoot the party in the foot by destroying his grassroots ground game. Its kind of fascinating. Like, there were lots of mistakes by the party, but I think this was the most critical one and it was Obama who did it to himself.

He was also behind the decision to pass Biden over for Hillary, which we all lived through the results of that. Like, I get that people think positively of him because he was the most presidential president of our lifetime and didn't have any major scandals. But he has done a lot of political malpractice that has hurt the Democratic party immeasurably.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
I mean, her equivocating here about everything is sadly a huge improvement from the previous Israel's-side-only stance of the government. Like, I'm happy with babysteps if that is what it takes to stop supporting an apartheid state eventually.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Elon Musk fucking sucks so much.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Vegy posted...
Was obama waiting for dis to happen so he could finally endorse Kamala???

That's assuming Obama is actually politically canny, which he really isn't. It would be a pretty great time to prove Trump wrong, but the dude isn't useful for anything sadly.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
EPR-radar posted...
J6 is its own thing, much closer to the Beer Hall Putsch than to any kind of legitimate protest.

Undirected riots that aren't protests any more would be things like the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict.

Yeah, that's true, there really are there own subcategories of riots too. J6 was pretty clearly orchestrated.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Jiek_Fafn posted...
Protests can have a variety of reasons for taking place and they definitely can be very organized. They generally don't have the same intent as the ones you're describing though. You did a good job of explaining one type, but you can't just pretend that things like organized union based protest don't exist. Those are also things.

The public sometimes confuses them for having the same purpose, which seems to be the issue you're getting at here.

Its more that I'm just speaking specifically about the kind of protests we've been discussing on the board. Like, yes, labor protests are their own thing. They also are much rarer in the US as the labor movement in the US is very weak right now, especially compared to how it was historically. Another thing I'm not really talking about is outright riots, like the January 6th riots.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Guide posted...
I've heard this from a few different people all at once, recently. Who started this? I would consider boycotts a form of protest, and those can be effective. But otherwise, this just makes protesting sound counterproductive and petty.

I feel like boycotts usually are more tightly organized and coordinated though. They are kind of their own beast. Sometimes they can't be effective, just structurally. Like, the whole boycott Israel movement can't really be effective because every company has more to lose in business from the United States (Especially in stuff like security contracts, the exact sort of thing the movement wants to stop) than they have to gain from the protestors who are a part of that movement, and there can never be enough protestors to balance that out.

Boycotts do exist in that same space though as being an outlet besides voting or violence to try to display anger on an issue.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
EPR-radar posted...
There's an old saying "those who make peaceful protest impossible make violent revolution inevitable"

IMO a protest is essentially fair notice that people are really pissed, and are being peaceful, for now.

It is not, as already noted, any kind of normal political argument.

Yeah, I like that explanation for it too, as a fair notice.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Toonstrack posted...
I wss responding to a post that wasn't yours.

But I do not agree with your assertion tat because they supposedly "cannot be controlled" that means that its valid for it to be a free for all with easily cooped messaging and unclear intended goals.

I think there's a pretty hefty distinction to he made between that and other protests, and you yourself acknowledged there have been astroturfed protests as well.

There have been, but astroturfed protests are not really what people think of. Like, I used to see these "Shame on X company" signs up all over the place with a few people standing around looking bored behind them in a place I used to live, only to learn that it was a company behind them and they had nothing to do with the union stuff the whole setup implied. That's usually what an astroturfed protest looks like, because you can pay people to be somewhere and set up a few signs, but you can't pay them to be excited about something. Like, they aren't the equivalent of the national protests we are actually talking about. My only point was that because we know they exist, they add distrust into the environment.

I mean, its because protests aren't really a centralized thing that they are often easily co-opted. Like, a good example of that was how the GOP completely co-opted the Tea Party movement and their protests in this country. That happened largely because the anger didn't have any one particular source or policy behind it. Its the same reason why Occupy Wall Street fizzled out. When the central cause for the anger is pretty vague, the protests that arise from it are going to be more vulnerable to co-opting or fizzling out. Its just the nature of how protests are.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Toonstrack posted...
Thats not all protests tho

And the problem is that a lot of times those free for all protests end up hurting the people they're trying to help, either directly or indirectly.

Like, you guys literally can't read.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
SAlYAN posted...
Protests piss me off because they're ultimately toothless.

I remember when there were legions of people protesting outside Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas' houses before Roe v Wade was overturned.

And I kept thinking "yeah, keep waving your signs and doing your chants. It's pointless; the judges don't give a shit. Nobody's listening."

It isn't always true that protests are toothless, but they require a certain kind of environment to work in. Like, there is a major power imbalance between the protestors ability to make a bunch of justices uncomfortable with what limited time they have to keep interest going in the cause, and those justices wealthy backers ability to make the justices comfortable with an infinite amount of money.

The scales of the environment here aren't balanced in the favor of the protestors, and that isn't their fault. They aren't protesting because they think all of a sudden these justices will stop being shit, they are protesting because they are angry as fuck at the shit they've done. The point at which the anger boils over is the point where you no longer have a protest and have political violence instead, which is anything but toothless.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
creativerealms posted...
The whole "the protesters are being paid" thing pisses me off every time I hear it. The idea that no one actually feels passionately about something horrible that happens and needs to be paid for fake a protest is just demeaning. Especially since they only apply that logic to causes they don't agree with.

Its not like astroturf campaigns don't exist though. Out of all the thoughts people have on protests, I think this one makes the most sense in the low-trust environment that exists in the US. We do know corporations especially use those tactics, but that little bit of knowledge betrays us because we use it to try to explain away anyone having a strong view on things that we don't agree with.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Protests aren't some heavily centralized activity done to support or condemn something orchestrated to maximize persuasiveness, but that is how they are treated. Its always "protestors did X thing and now they've killed their entire argument!" as if protests were a form of argument. Its a very silly way to view them that doesn't really conform to reality.

What protests actually are, is an outlet for anger on a specific issue, particularly ones that feel like they have no legitimate political outlet like voting. Protests are a consequence, not a choice.

No one really likes protests. They make everyone uncomfortable. They can persuade people in exactly one way, which is to make a situation so embarrassing for politicians that they have to change course, but people act like they are designed to persuade the average citizen instead, which is super weird, because how would they even do that? Some guy blocked my road so now I support Palestine? They are inconvenient for everyone.

But in spite of this fact, that if we could choose to be inconvenienced by protests or not most people would choose to not be, they aren't something that can be controlled, because ultimately, people need an outlet for their political frustrations, and when you are given two candidates who often agree on whatever issue you are frustrated about, or at least appear to, voting can never really be that outlet. Like, the other outlets besides voting and protests are more violent and destructive in America, we see what happens when the people who are frustrated to the point of action can't really even gather up a small cadre of people to complain in public, terrorism.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
I think they are better specifically because Biden endorsed Kamala, not just because he stepped down.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
AceMos posted...
its about the double standard

ava was rightfully dragged over the coals

but jimmy is not

jimmy also has connections to shad but that is not getting the same attention

I feel like the Shadman stuff is easily the most damning thing in the entire accusation, so Jimmy absolutely needs to reckon for it too.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
TC tagged as an astroturfer.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
BaphometFlux posted...
I know some might say "Genocide Joe" will be his legacy,but I think history will consider his presidency as one of the better ones in American history.

I mean, I think he'll probably be the last president to preside over when Israel was a bipartisan thing, I think there is a pretty major shift on that.

I think he'll also be remembered well for getting us out of Afghanistan. On domestic affairs, he will mostly be remembered for being stymied by the Republican controlled courts at every opportunity. It stopped him from ever being the kind of president he wanted to be domestically.
Disobedience is the stamp of the hero. -Ragnar Redbeard
Also, this is Kagata..
Community » CoyoteTheGreat
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